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Marketwatch: Why those earning 400k per year are barely scraping

Ogre

Ogre

Member
Mar 26, 2018
435
RastaMentality said:
And it'd be a different case for a doctor who had six figure student loan debt as well. I just wish these websites/graphics were honest about how much wealth the average 400k income earner actually has. Because they never are.
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Yeah, this article is hilarious. Like, if these people have kids that young, their student loans weren't just 50k.

I know plenty of docs who get out of residency, and are like, "okay, time to pay off the 300k in student loans now, I guess?"

Most of them still driving their Camry.
 
VariantX

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,880
Columbia, SC
...stop spending your money on stupid shit and move a little further out?? I will say that rent in that city is nuts though and I wont dispute that for an instant. I don't understand how the fuck vacation is a cost unless its unpaid time off?? Like you can tell they're eating out too damn much based on food costs alone. And why the fuck are they constantly buying clothes every month?? I might, MIGHT spend $200 on clothes in the span of 6 months...not every damn month. Are they eating their clothes? That would explain the food bill I guess.
 
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YourFriend

Member
Nov 15, 2017
195
I have a friend in NYC who has two kids with his significant other making less than 100k a year combined. They aren't living the life of luxury and are only renting, but somehow they are making it. They don't live in the best area, but they aren't starving, son goes to school, baby is fed and has diapers.
 

Deleted member 49482

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2018
3,302
Merv said:
People who spend every cent they make "barely scrape by"...who knew!
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This is the (unintentionally) hilarious thing about the way these articles are framed. "Spending" all your money doesn't necessarily mean you're barely scraping by; it just means you're spending all your money.

I could make my monthly budget result in only "saving" $34/month, but that wouldn't mean I'm scraping by. I would just be spending a lot more discretionary money on luxuries.

And I put "spending" and "saving" in quotes because this hypothetical couple is already saving >$40,000/year.
 
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Forsaken82

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,923
Bya said:
I'd feel rich as fuck with that income lol. But I'm a single guy.
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based on the article, even a married couple with 2 kids, that income is managable and the budget in the article proves that with their entertainment and vacation expenses. And that's ignoring the ridiculous pricing on other things like Clothing, Phone, and Car payments, not to mention if they were REALLY strapped for cash, they can easily make up like 6 or 7 grand a year by dropping to 6 or even 7% contributions in their 401k. That alone would cover their ridiculous vacation expenses.
 
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Musubi

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
So this article got me wondering what the actual guidelines for being considered "poor" are. And these guidelines seem really whack. They are for all 48 contiguous states minus Alaska/Hawaii. And its insane to me that they apparently don't take into account regional price disparities on things like housing.


aspe.hhs.gov

Poverty Guidelines

The 2024 poverty guidelines are in effect as of January 17, 2024. Federal Register Notice, January 17, 2024.The Poverty Guidelines API is now available with the 2024 data.U.S. Federal Poverty Guidelines Used to Determine Financial Eligibility for Certain Programs
aspe.hhs.gov aspe.hhs.gov
 
TheKeipatzy

TheKeipatzy

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,716
California for now
Nonsense like this is why I'm an active socialist... my parents are both retired and their retirement income is about $150,000 per year I believe. My stepdad still works and I believe takes home about four grand per month.. but the reason why they struggle is because my mom has a very bad habit of both overspending on very dumb stuff as well as issues of not paying bills which of course compounds the late fees and other payment issues.

Again I've seen this for myself perhaps the problem is not the fact that there is a money issue but it could be the fact that how the money is going out can contribute to issues.

And to those saying I should help with my parents bear in mind I'm a Gen x and any of the other kids are promptly ignored as they know what's best... Lol. (Also being bisexual means that I have no idea how to handle money.. a quote from my bigoted racist mother)
 
A More Normal Bird

A More Normal Bird

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,322
Breakdown mentions that they're spending only half as much on fuel due to lockdowns but they're still spending several thousand on vacations? I don't think this hypothetical couple are taking the pandemic seriously.
 

ErrorJustin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,463
Darknight said:
This is an example of what $1.65 million can get you in the Bay Area though. Housing is expensive here.

www.redfin.com

3762 Carlysle Ave, SANTA CLARA, CA 95051 - 3 beds/2 baths

(MLSListings) 3 beds, 2 baths, 1147 sq. ft. house located at 3762 Carlysle Ave, SANTA CLARA, CA 95051 sold for $1,305,000 on Apr 8, 2016. MLS# ML81563973. Welcome Home! Popular Westwood Oaks Home * Just Steps ...
www.redfin.com www.redfin.com

That's 3 beds, 2 baths only 1147 sqft and a house built in 1956.

Getting something for a million is not easy these days. It wasn't even easy 5 years ago and pricing has gone up a lot since then too.

I'm not going to shed a tear saying someone is struggling, but the housing situation is really bad and a lot of people really don't understand how bad it is here.
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I know. I've lived in San Francisco for 14 years.

It's completely fucking nuts but you don't have to have a 1.6M home.
 
I am a Bird

I am a Bird

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,214
6ba86ebc470f6df492dbde18cb5e586b.jpg


If I could make 400k per year I could just like mildly better than I am not and just retire early. Maybe get a hobby job.
 
SilkySm00th

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,800
A modest vacation several weeks a year???? I haven't had an actual vacation since I was 22 and it was paid for, the FUCK outta here with that garbage.

Also it's fuckin 2020 if you "scraping by" in a 1.5 million dollar house GUESS WHAT DIPSHIT YOU HOUSE RICH AND THAT'S IT
Fuckin move and telecommute like the rest of the non idiotic free godamned world.

Shit like this drives me up the godamn wall. 21k a month and a motherfucker gonna cry about scraping by. Insulting.

"Clothes for four - GAP not Gucci - Teehee!! <3"

Show me the man who wrote this right fucking now.
 
NoAccount

NoAccount

Member
Oct 27, 2017
34
It looks like the example is talking about a 2m dollar house, not a 1.6m. Look at property tax to see it is based on 2m. They point out a 20% down payment on the house, and at 2m that would be 400k, which would put their mortgage at 1.6m, but the house itself is worth 2m. Looking through Seattle, Bay Area, and NYC there are a lot of houses (I assume more apartments in NYC, but that is NYC living) that you can get for 2m or less.

If you spend 5x your annual income on a house you should expect to have that burn up a really large chunk of your income. I would definitely not advise someone who has 2 kids and presumably nothing in their current non-401k investments (I am assuming that because the example does not call out other money saved up) to spend 5x on their house. Unless they were confident that they were going to grow their income over the next 10 years or so. Otherwise you are putting a lot of your eggs in one basket.
 
j7vikes

j7vikes

Definitely not shooting blanks
Member
Jan 5, 2020
5,620
Well I have a lot more than 34 left over at the end of the month but my wife and I make about 60 k combined. It's just too hard with 400 k. Don't know how these folks do it. Hats off to them.
 
j7vikes

j7vikes

Definitely not shooting blanks
Member
Jan 5, 2020
5,620
Well I have a lot more than 34 left over at the end of the month but my wife and I make about 60 k combined. It's just too hard with 400 k. Don't know how these folks do it. Hats off to them.

The struggle is real. Just hope like hell we don't triple our income and end up with less than 50 a month left over.
 
A More Normal Bird

A More Normal Bird

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,322
MiHighGator said:
This is the (unintentionally) hilarious thing about the way these articles are framed. "Spending" all your money doesn't necessarily mean you're barely scraping by; it just means you're spending all your money.

I could make my monthly budget result in only "saving" $34/month, but that wouldn't mean I'm scraping by. I would just be spending a lot more discretionary money on luxuries.

And I put "spending" and "saving" in quotes because this hypothetical couple is already saving >$40,000/month.
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Forsaken82 said:
based on the article, even a married couple with 2 kids, that income is managable and the budget in the article proves that with their entertainment and vacation expenses. And that's ignoring the ridiculous pricing on other things like Clothing, Phone, and Car payments, not to mention if they were REALLY strapped for cash, they can easily make up like 6 or 7 grand a year by dropping to 6 or even 7% contributions in their 401k. That alone would cover their ridiculous vacation expenses.
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That's the other thing. "Accountants hate him! Zero any budget with this one weird trick! Simply add savings to expenses to create a figure equal to income!"
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Member
Oct 28, 2017
537
Who the fuck pays 5300 for childcare a month. That is slightly less than my wifes and I total net income.
We pay $150 a month for kindergarten for out 2 year old son and that includes 2 meals a day and afternoon snack.
 
MrKlaw

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,038
platocplx said:
Why the fuck does someone need a 1.6 million dollar Mortage.
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Where I live in the UK which is south east but outside of London - a regular 3 bed semi detached house - not big at all, is like £500k in an average area. Not fancy, not near a big city. We're lucky that we were on the ladder about 20 years ago with a flat that helped with equity when we moved on, but if we were buying new today and was just deposit + mortgage I don't think we could afford it, and we're on more than average wage.

It does sometimes confuse me how people affort property in the UK (I know a lot can't) when the average wage is about £26k so even with two incomes thats about £50k which would net you maybe a £150k mortgage? where's the other £350k coming from?
 
PHOENIXZERO

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,065
Yeah, considering something like 60% of US households earn less than 100K/yr they're not going to have any sympathy... except in the Market Watch comments section and whoever wrote that. Earning 400K makes you rich in like 90, 95% of the country, hell earning 100K would relatively be so to a large percentage of Americans too.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
I'm not taking financial advice from a samurai. Those guys aren't even allowed to engage in finance.
 
Trup1aya

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,323
Simply not choosing a mortgage that costs $6.7 thousand dollars a month would immediately eliminate any sort of "struggle" this family could pretend to have.

Imagine having 320k to put down on a house and not all but eliminating the idea of having a monthly mortgage when you make your purchase.
 
Drakeon

Drakeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,272
How fucking tone deaf is this bullshit when people are having to resort to food banks because they've been unemployed. Get the fuck out of here with your ridiculous budget.
 
maabus1999

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,900
This is most likely a hit piece since the Biden Campaign has made 400K their threshold for higher taxes; that said 400K in areas like San Francisco is probably closer to someone making a third of that in the rest of the country. However, saying they are just making it is ridiculous as even at a third is a solid income for a lot of folks.
 
regina's phalange

regina's phalange

Member
Feb 2, 2019
94
maabus1999 said:
This is most likely a hit piece since the Biden Campaign has made 400K their threshold for higher taxes; that said 400K in areas like San Francisco is probably closer to someone making a third of that in the rest of the country. However, saying they are just making it is ridiculous as even at a third is a solid income for a lot of folks.
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^ this. Listening to the VP debate when Kamala Harris mentioned raising taxes on families making $400k+, immediately thought of this article...definitely intentional to make a case against raising taxes for higher income folks by spreading a false narrative that families at that threshold are still just trying to get by despite spending modestly.
 
Foltzie

Foltzie

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,780
This article is trying to peel off educated white voters who are most likely to get these jobs, who are traditionally Democratic leaning.
 
nopressure

nopressure

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,414
They could just not buy a 1.6million dollar home or not work full time so they spend less on childcare/schooling (if it bothers them so much) or not buy an expensive car or buy some things second hand or...

Dumb article.
 
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