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Mario's physics in NSMBU suck
- Thread starter Ashby
- Start date
I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again.
SMW is overrated. Most of the levels are a series of gimmicks that don't go anywhere. There's no real sense of progression or difficulty. Oh and Mario looks like an idiot. I swear this game (and SMB3 to a lesser extent) get a pass simply because most of the Internet grew up with it.
SMW is overrated. Most of the levels are a series of gimmicks that don't go anywhere. There's no real sense of progression or difficulty. Oh and Mario looks like an idiot. I swear this game (and SMB3 to a lesser extent) get a pass simply because most of the Internet grew up with it.
I grew up playing so many endless hours of the original SMB trilogy on NES and then SMW on SNES and so on....I think NSMB U is the best 2D Mario ever made.
So people love Mario Maker...but according to RagnarokX, all of those play styles control the same as NSMBU?
Yup.
Yup.
With the exception of jump arc it plays closer to Mario 1 which also feels heavy compared to Mario 3 and world. World has the best air control and 3 a floatier jump both of which add a sense of elasticity to the character movement that the New games lack. The less than quality art and animation used in the new series also factors into making the game feel more imprecise than it is.
Believe me, I'm not fond of the same thing in other Mario games either. I generally don't appreciate games wasting my time as a matter of fact.
If I wanted to choose a different level I'd pause the game and leave the current level from a menu, just like every other level based game.
My top 5 2D Mario's are:
1. New Super Mario Bros. U
2. Super Mario Bros. 3
3. Super Mario Bros.
4. Super Mario World
5. Super Mario Land 2
1. New Super Mario Bros. U
2. Super Mario Bros. 3
3. Super Mario Bros.
4. Super Mario World
5. Super Mario Land 2
I didn't realise your time was so precious and limited. Maybe you should play fewer games.
I've always felt every main 2D Mario title had its own take on aerial inertia that becomes more immediately player friendly as the series goes on.
I think there's a very brief window of extra hangtime on a NSMB sprint enhanced jump to bolster the air spin potential, that said it's so minor I never really got how people find NSMB physics that much more alienating to them than say SMB3.
Super Mario Maker totally has the best, standardised across all forms and feels just right in all of them, SMW without the initial slippery feeling before getting re-accustomed is a bingo.
edit: of course I can just read Rag's post and get the MARIO SCIENCE on it all.
I think there's a very brief window of extra hangtime on a NSMB sprint enhanced jump to bolster the air spin potential, that said it's so minor I never really got how people find NSMB physics that much more alienating to them than say SMB3.
Super Mario Maker totally has the best, standardised across all forms and feels just right in all of them, SMW without the initial slippery feeling before getting re-accustomed is a bingo.
edit: of course I can just read Rag's post and get the MARIO SCIENCE on it all.
Pretty bold claim considering that NSMBU owes it's entire existence to SMW. U being the fourth NSMB game, as well as having been released roughly 20 years apart from Mario World makes it it pretty sad that it even has to be debated that NSMBU is the best 2D Mario in the first place. By all accounts it should be the best and Mario should still be the king of 2D platformers but that sure isn't the case but that was undeniable so during the NES and SNES eras.
While i can appreciate that RaganrokX posts those comparison shots in every NSMBU vs Classic 2D Mario thread, it still doesn't change the fact that the NSMB games are extremely similar and all play exactly the same, with only very slight gameplay adjustments at most between releases. SMB1, SMB2, SMB3, SMW, SMW2 and the Land games all played completely differently from one another with an unique style, each and all have introduced plenty of new elements to the Mario series that has kept the series fresh.
NSMBU accomplishes exactly none of this and is more or less the third expansion pack to the Original DS game then anything else but even that game was somewhat more interesting to play, since it was actually "new" back then but NSMBU is just a snooze fest, only recommendable if you skipped all the previous NSMB games.
Can't exactly call this anything else than having low standards. The New Super Mario Bros games are at best decent but are nowhere near top tier as far as Mario games are concerned.
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I mean, there's a reason why tough platformers like Celeste, Super Meat Boy or even Trials get praised for their instant restarts. People generally do not like waiting around.
But sure, go ahead and be an asshole about the whole thing.
Well, if the animations of your game give the player the feeling that the physics are worse than they actually are, then maybe you should... I don't know... fix that?
Do you think it is pure coincidence that the majority of people who hate on the NSMBU physics give the exact same reasoning? You can analyse jump arcs as much as you want but if the physics "feel" off then that's bad.
I can't stand how NSMBU feels. I picked it up on Wii U as I enjoyed previous 2D Mario games, such as NSMB on DS, but moving around in that game irks me to no end. It feels slippery and imprecise, I know I'm not alone in thinking this as a load of recent reviews for the Switch launch mention it. And the Luigi DLC feels even worse.
I can barely tolerate the first couple of levels.
I can barely tolerate the first couple of levels.
Quite brave of you to insult players who prefer a different video game to you.
EDIT: You are literally saying that I am too stupid to understand Mario so that's why I like NSMBU.
i remember going back to SMB3 some years ago and being quite taken aback with just how short the levels were.
NSMBU easily has the best level design and it's really not even close.
I wonder how much of people's feel of the game is impacted by people now playing on their big laggy living room HDTVs now as opposed to the built in in DS screen or a CRT back in the day.
The physics feel off because of nostalgia. That or input lag. The facts support that there's nothing wrong with the physics.
SMB3 and SMW have way less animations than NSMB due to them being old 2D sprite games. This is not something you can fix unless you go back to 90's development, as even modern 2D platformers are more animated.
Plus, SMB3 is incredibly sloppy even by 2D platformer standards. Mario takes a long time to keep quiet after moving.
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You literally said anyone who likes NSMBU has low standards. Twice, in fact.
Yeah it was a bit too slippery for me too. I havent beaten it, i got stuck on the water boo house. I dont know if i will
Same.
For the most part I don't mind, since it's nice to go through 8 different worlds in a couple of hours. Still, I can't help but wonder how SMB3 would fare if there were less levels, but all of them were slightly longer. As is, they seem to end just before they have a chance to get going.
That said, it originally released in 1988, and it's still highly playable today. That speaks volumes for its quality.
I should also note that I played a shit-ton of SMB3. I wasn't a speedrunner, but I did participate in a local competition.
I wasn't exactly being serious when i made that claim and suggesting that standards for 2D Mario have gotten lower isn't exactly false nor is it insulting. It does baffle me personally that people are ok with Nintendo recycling 2D Mario for over a decade plus, instead of pushing that branch of the series in interesting ways.
They aren't slippery. I did testing on it back when SMM came out because some people were saying this. Here:
What I found is that all 3 games essentially have a p-meter. Obviously SMB3 has one cuz you can see it and we knew SMW had a hidden one, but I was surprised to find NSMBU is affected by one, too.
This is how SMB3, SMW, and NSMBU stack up on acceleration:
The red star is how far you have to run right from the very left edge of the screen to fill the p-meter and run at top speed starting with the p-meter completely empty. The blue star is how far you have to run right from the very left edge of the screen to refill the p-meter after having first run to the left at full speed.
What I found is that SMB3 has the slowest acceleration from 0 p and SMW and NSMBU are tied. However, SMW is the fastest at getting back up to top speed after stopping while SMB3 and NSMBU are tied.
So what about stopping? SMB3 has the worst skidding at full speed. You skid about 3-4 blocks. SMW and NSMBU take about 2 blocks, but NSMBU has a bit more of a pause on the stop that puts it about in line with SMB3 in how long it takes to change direction.
As for air control, SMB3 and NSMBU are about the same. If you run and jump from a platform and then reverse direction after jumping you will land on the spot you jumped from. If you do the same thing in SMW you will overshoot that spot by about 4 blocks.
In all 3 of the games you will only skid if you try to stop after landing a jump. If you try to stop before landing a jump, you will instead stop pinpoint. NSMBU adds an animation of Mario running in the direction you are holding, so this may lend to the perception that there is less control here. The jumps are no less precise.
In short, the long windup and cool down compared to SMB3 and SMW do not exist. NSMBU is a combination of aspects of those 2 games. It has the 0-100 acceleration of SMW and the 100-0-100 acceleration SMB3. It has the skidding distance of SMW but the similar stopping speed of SMB3. And it has the air control of SMB3. If any game would feel like it was on ice it'd be SMB3 due to the slower acceleration and longer skids.
It's especially telling with Mario Maker where all of the physics are the same (NSMBU physics) across all visual styles but people still perceive differences that don't exist.
Also:
Full speed jump arcs from all 4 games:
SMB:
SMB3:
SMW:
NSMBU:
Put 'em all together:
NSMBU's full speed jump arc is near identical to SMW's. SMB1's falls short and SMB3's is nuts.
Isn't the fact that all of SMM is running of the same engine affecting that, though?
Your wife is ugly you only married her because you have low standards.
Calm down guys I'm not insulting you I wasn't being serious!
Calm down guys I'm not insulting you I wasn't being serious!
No i'm not and if you want to go down that road, please point that out to anyone else who thinks that many like SMB3-World for only nostalgia and nothing else.
Isn't that a bit harsh. By that same token, anyone who says NSMBU is better is being deliberately contrarian.
"I'm not insulting people, but here is why people who like these games are unimaginative" I've already given why I like the New series because of it's verticality offered that doesn't exist in the older games but nah I'm just too unimaginative to appreciate the older games.
Best post I've read on a long time, should be added to the OP. Thank you.They aren't slippery. I did testing on it back when SMM came out because some people were saying this. Here:
What I found is that all 3 games essentially have a p-meter. Obviously SMB3 has one cuz you can see it and we knew SMW had a hidden one, but I was surprised to find NSMBU is affected by one, too.
This is how SMB3, SMW, and NSMBU stack up on acceleration:
The red star is how far you have to run right from the very left edge of the screen to fill the p-meter and run at top speed starting with the p-meter completely empty. The blue star is how far you have to run right from the very left edge of the screen to refill the p-meter after having first run to the left at full speed.
What I found is that SMB3 has the slowest acceleration from 0 p and SMW and NSMBU are tied. However, SMW is the fastest at getting back up to top speed after stopping while SMB3 and NSMBU are tied.
So what about stopping? SMB3 has the worst skidding at full speed. You skid about 3-4 blocks. SMW and NSMBU take about 2 blocks, but NSMBU has a bit more of a pause on the stop that puts it about in line with SMB3 in how long it takes to change direction.
As for air control, SMB3 and NSMBU are about the same. If you run and jump from a platform and then reverse direction after jumping you will land on the spot you jumped from. If you do the same thing in SMW you will overshoot that spot by about 4 blocks.
In all 3 of the games you will only skid if you try to stop after landing a jump. If you try to stop before landing a jump, you will instead stop pinpoint. NSMBU adds an animation of Mario running in the direction you are holding, so this may lend to the perception that there is less control here. The jumps are no less precise.
In short, the long windup and cool down compared to SMB3 and SMW do not exist. NSMBU is a combination of aspects of those 2 games. It has the 0-100 acceleration of SMW and the 100-0-100 acceleration SMB3. It has the skidding distance of SMW but the similar stopping speed of SMB3. And it has the air control of SMB3. If any game would feel like it was on ice it'd be SMB3 due to the slower acceleration and longer skids.
It's especially telling with Mario Maker where all of the physics are the same (NSMBU physics) across all visual styles but people still perceive differences that don't exist.
Also:
Full speed jump arcs from all 4 games:
SMB:
SMB3:
SMW:
NSMBU:
Put 'em all together:
NSMBU's full speed jump arc is near identical to SMW's. SMB1's falls short and SMB3's is nuts.
I've never felt it to be any more slippery than other 2D Mario games to be honest. I just find it's just the way Mario's running is animated that makes it look a bit sloppy. I'm not a fan of the graphical style, but the gameplay is tight.
It really depends how you look at it. If you compare the games without considering when they were released and how much they innovated, then I think many/most would agree that NSMBU is the very best one.
If "how different it is compared to the previous games" is important to you, then you'll rate the classics much higher.
I agree that the NSMB games haven't changed things up enough! NSMBU is probably my favorite (though I love them all), but I really hope that Nintendo comes up with something drastically different for the next 2D Mario. I mean, it's been frikkin' 7 years since the last one! They just have to be cooking up something special.
I think SMB3 and World have plenty of flaws, and I grew up with them. Same for 64, Sunshine, Galaxy...
But my criticisms are solely aimed at the games. I do often criticize nostalgia too, but not the nostalgic. In this thread, we have nostalgia clouding facts and spreading misinformation.
You should, however, stop making excuses, when it's clear that you think people that prefer a certain game have a "shit taste".
Both NSMB console games are pretty great and it's a shame how much people revile them only because of their low production values and unappealing look.
The same exact games only with an Ubiart Engine level of presentation would sit at a 95-ish MC score.
The same exact games only with an Ubiart Engine level of presentation would sit at a 95-ish MC score.
I didn't call people unimaginative but i do think the NSMB games (except the first one) are incredibly unimaginative. I admit i got grumpy but that's only because so many keep propping up NSMBU so much and treating everything that came before as nothing but nostalgia crap. Heck i have yet to even see what makes NSMBU so much better then the Wii entry. Because by and large that game offered everything NSMBU did. I guess NSMBU was a slight refinement.
Agreed. I would kill to be excited for another 2D Mario again and i know that Nintendo is more than capable of making it but it's impossible for me to not get bummed if they just recycle NSMB again.
It's something you can work with once you're aware of it, you just have to be more careful about running and make more liberal use of pressing backwards to stop yourself faster. It's just you don't normally think of Super Mario Bros differing in physics so much without telling you first in some way, because even by this point you already had a game establishing low traction and longer jumps specifically as a trait of Luigi.
There's more imagination and inventiveness in NSMBU than 3 and World combined. I wonder how much you actually played to be saying these things.
I played all of them to completion. I played every mainline Mario game multiple times. Please tell me what makes them more inventive because trust me i don't want to dislike these games and i wish i could appreciate them more.
I think there's a reason, why most of the recent Mario romhacks are based on SMW and not on SMB3.
Like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsBnX2wKKxY
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnQorVDTc4A
SMW has by far the best physics and most pleasing aesthetics IMO.
On the subject or how the game controls, what is the best controller to actually use with the Switch version of the game? Word on the street is that the Pro controller D-Pads are still bad.
This. Game feel is governed just as much by art and animation as it is controls and input latency. That's why devs spend so much time on that stuff, and it's totally subject to criticism. I'm glad people can be educated on how responsive Mario actually is, especially in comparison to SMB3, but at the end of the day it doesn't invalidate people's impression of the game feeling "slippery".
They aren't slippery. I did testing on it back when SMM came out because some people were saying this. Here:
What I found is that all 3 games essentially have a p-meter. Obviously SMB3 has one cuz you can see it and we knew SMW had a hidden one, but I was surprised to find NSMBU is affected by one, too.
This is how SMB3, SMW, and NSMBU stack up on acceleration:
The red star is how far you have to run right from the very left edge of the screen to fill the p-meter and run at top speed starting with the p-meter completely empty. The blue star is how far you have to run right from the very left edge of the screen to refill the p-meter after having first run to the left at full speed.
What I found is that SMB3 has the slowest acceleration from 0 p and SMW and NSMBU are tied. However, SMW is the fastest at getting back up to top speed after stopping while SMB3 and NSMBU are tied.
So what about stopping? SMB3 has the worst skidding at full speed. You skid about 3-4 blocks. SMW and NSMBU take about 2 blocks, but NSMBU has a bit more of a pause on the stop that puts it about in line with SMB3 in how long it takes to change direction.
As for air control, SMB3 and NSMBU are about the same. If you run and jump from a platform and then reverse direction after jumping you will land on the spot you jumped from. If you do the same thing in SMW you will overshoot that spot by about 4 blocks.
In all 3 of the games you will only skid if you try to stop after landing a jump. If you try to stop before landing a jump, you will instead stop pinpoint. NSMBU adds an animation of Mario running in the direction you are holding, so this may lend to the perception that there is less control here. The jumps are no less precise.
In short, the long windup and cool down compared to SMB3 and SMW do not exist. NSMBU is a combination of aspects of those 2 games. It has the 0-100 acceleration of SMW and the 100-0-100 acceleration SMB3. It has the skidding distance of SMW but the similar stopping speed of SMB3. And it has the air control of SMB3. If any game would feel like it was on ice it'd be SMB3 due to the slower acceleration and longer skids.
It's especially telling with Mario Maker where all of the physics are the same (NSMBU physics) across all visual styles but people still perceive differences that don't exist.
Also:
Full speed jump arcs from all 4 games:
SMB:
SMB3:
SMW:
NSMBU:
Put 'em all together:
NSMBU's full speed jump arc is near identical to SMW's. SMB1's falls short and SMB3's is nuts.
You're doing good work.
I was randomly playing SMM a few nights ago, and because I kept switching between the engines, SMB3 felt off.
And I loves SMB3.
Loves it.
Anyway, the "New" games handle just fine.
Except for the ground pound being mapped to Down. That's just dumb and asking folks to accidentally ground pound during jumps while doing mid-air adjustments.
Some folks still don't know the good news of Luigi.
I play the Green Guy whenever I get the opportunity.
