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BY2K

Membero Americo
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,682
Québec, Canada
People playing dense like this isnt the scummiest shit ever is confusing to me, is it because its Nintendo? Look man I love Nintendo but this aint cool.

And there it is. The classic.

And no, it's not because it's Nintendo that I don't think there's a problem.

Hell, if MikeProtagonist is right, Mario's call for Luigi doesn't even happen commonly. You'd think it would happen more often if it was meant as a marketing tactic.

If Mario was saying stuff like: "Where's my brother Luigi? Do you know where my brother Luigi is? Can you help me find my brother Luigi?" and he kept saying it constantly, then yeah, I'm probably think there's a problem.
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,648
It's subtle, but no worse than an advertisement on the back of the product you just bought for other products and accessories.

Make no mistake though, it's still using FOMO to illicit a reaponse to "don't think, consume".
 

Sonix

Prophet of Regret
Member
Aug 3, 2020
1,965
I feel like there are multiple storylines happening in this thread and everbody gets angry at the others because they don't talk about the same stuff.
So, what changed? Based on the one post that tried to clarify it looks like they added one random interaction (when waking?) that could result in Mario saying "Luigi" (and nothing more)?

Because then we have to seriously ask if thats so different from i.e. a service game where new characters/worlds/quests get added and the other characters get additional voice lines so that the world stays consistent.

If its more like "Where is my brother I miss him -.-" then it gets a lot worse, sure.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,641
Costa Rica
If Mario was saying "Hey kids, buy Luigi!" that would be far more scummy, so I wouldn't call this the scummiest shit ever by definition.

And even then, I can think of ways that this would be scummier. Putting all the figures into blind boxes for instance, so you had a CHANCE of getting Luigi. Which really shows how fucking shit lootboxes are.

The thing is that not having Mario outright say "Hey kids buy stuff" gives them plausible deniability.

This isn't like a Captain America figure that has a random voice line saying "Iron Man let's attack together!" when the entire line is supposed to be a set.

This is a Captain America figure that for many months was standalone and had several random voicelines, but then suddenly gets updated to say "If only Iron Man was here, we could win this battle!" and "Iron Man? Iron Man please respond!" right when a brand new full priced Iron Man figure came out.

Maybe using traditional toys as an example shows how insidious this truly is
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
I feel like there are multiple storylines happening in this thread and everbody gets angry at the others because they don't talk about the same stuff.
So, what changed? Based on the one post that tried to clarify it looks like they added one random interaction (when waking?) that could result in Mario saying "Luigi" (and nothing more)?

Because then we have to seriously ask if thats so different from i.e. a service game where new characters/worlds/quests get added and the other characters get additional voice lines so that the world stays consistent.

If its more like "Where is my brother I miss him -.-" then it gets a lot worse, sure.
The thing is that it's probably a bonehead move that's meant to be a cute nod more than anything.
But it does open the door for really scummy behavior.
In the same way that from a designer pov, you can add a way to let players level up faster because they don't appreciate combat as much as you would wish they would. But it did open the door to designers making the experience unbearably grindy to force people to buy their way out of the grind.

Here it's not the most fucked up thing but it's still fucked up.
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
While this is bad, there's stuff that has been far more egregious. Go look up Captain Power. It was a show that you literally could not fully experience without buying the toy.

And then there was stuff like Transformers Armada, which were Transformers that required you to buy other, smaller Transformers to fully take advantage of the toy.

Or shit, all of the combining robots, that had you buy 5 separate robots to form one super robot.
That robot example at the end made me think of the action figures you used to buy that would come with an extra piece for another figure. You had to buy the whole set to assemble that one toy. Imagine if any time you turned it on before full assembly it just screamed in pain cause it was torn into pieces, lmao.

But yeah, this is all bad stuff and something should be done about all of it. Presented in such a way though it's whataboutism. They also used to market cigarettes to kids. Just because something was deemed legal at some point in time doesn't make it right. As a society, we really need to evaluate our morals when it comes to this kind of thing. Unfortunately, money rules all and those with money make the rules. Scummy tactics will always exist as long as there's money to be made from them.
 
OP
OP
Empyrean Cocytus

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,695
Upstate NY
And there it is. The classic.

And no, it's not because it's Nintendo that I don't think there's a problem.

Hell, if MikeProtagonist is right, Mario's call for Luigi doesn't even happen commonly. You'd think it would happen more often if it was meant as a marketing tactic.

If Mario was saying stuff like: "Where's my brother Luigi? Do you know where my brother Luigi is? Can you help me find my brother Luigi?" and he kept saying it constantly, then yeah, I'm probably think there's a problem.

Even then, this isn't even Nintendo. LEGO licenses the property from the company, then makes the toys based around that. Nintendo makes some money off of it, but I'm not sure they have much say of how LEGO makes the toys.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
That robot example at the end made me think of the action figures you used to buy that would come with an extra piece for another figure. You had to buy the whole set to assemble that one toy. Imagine if any time you turned it on before full assembly it just screamed in pain cause it was torn into pieces, lmao.

But yeah, this is all bad stuff. I will point out it's whataboutism. Something should be done about all of it. They also used to market cigarettes to kids. Just because something was deemed legal at some point in time doesn't make it right. As a society, we really need to evaluate our morals when it comes to this kind of thing. Unfortunately, money rules all and those with money make the rules.
They used to sell cocaine and heroine for kids, just saying.

Even then, this isn't even Nintendo. LEGO licenses the property from the company, then makes the toys based around that. Nintendo makes some money off of it, but I'm not sure they have much say of how LEGO makes the toys.

It's Nintendo, they absolutely control what others are doing with their properties.
I'm sure there's at least an email to sign off on that kind of stuffs.
If it was just Lego, it would be vastly different and would look like the other 1000s of properties Lego License.
THIS is different.
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,617
This doesn't really feel unusual at all when it comes to gaming OR interactive toys. That's not to say it's hunky dory but it's not remotely unusual either. I actually think it's kinda clever, like if a fighting game suddenly added new dialogue all secret like right before a new character reveal.
 

Shemhazai

Member
Aug 13, 2020
6,456
People playing dense like this isnt the scummiest shit ever is confusing to me, is it because its Nintendo? Look man I love Nintendo but this aint cool.
When was the last time Nintendo did something scummy and people actually held them to account?
Was it the limited time availability for the Mario Collection? The single island lock on Animal Crossing? Oh, how about the controversy regarding Monster Hunter World where Nintendo did the exact same thing as Sony and all you could hear when you brought it up was crickets.

Mario could tell kids to go out and buy cigarettes and they'd still make record sales.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
I can definitely see a case of this basically being extra advertisement to get new toys, on top of just the advertisement on the front and back of the box. Had this been something he said if you paired him up with a Luigi LEGO or you wanted to add in this patch or something, I don't think that'd be a problem but this goes beyond that. That being said, I don't think this is some evil genius mastermind plan or anything but it's something I think should've been optional instead for the parent's sake

When was the last time Nintendo did something scummy and people actually held them to account?
Was it the limited time availability for the Mario Collection? The single island lock on Animal Crossing? Oh, how about the controversy regarding Monster Hunter World where Nintendo did the exact same thing and all you could hear when you brought it up was crickets.

Mario could tell kids to go out and buy cigarettes and they'd still make record sales.
...you could say that for any big company. Not sure what your point is here unless you're trying to go with the classic "It's only defended because Nintendo", as if the same isn't done for all of them on here
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
When was the last time Nintendo did something scummy and people actually held them to account?
Was it the limited time availability for the Mario Collection? The single island lock on Animal Crossing? Oh, how about the controversy regarding Monster Hunter World where Nintendo did the exact same thing as Sony and all you could hear when you brought it up was crickets.

Mario could tell kids to go out and buy cigarettes and they'd still make record sales.
Wait wut?

For animal crossing, it's really just the follow up to their designs.
Like only AC on GC didn't require you to get multiple systems to have more than 1 Island per system.
on DS, it was 1 per cart.
on Wii, 1 per system
on 3DS, 1 per cart

you're not meant to buy multiple carts to get multiple islands on DS/3DS like you're not meant to buy more than 1 pokemon cart
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,291
Or shit, all of the combining robots, that had you buy 5 separate robots to form one super robot.

Not a great comparison, more that there's an additional feature if you get more, and they were all interchangeable too. Of course you wanted to get more, but that's sort of the idea every time you sell a line of more than one figure. Like, I have the Figuarts Mario figures and they have tons on pictures of stuff that's not even in the box, prompting you to get accessory sets.

Even then, this isn't even Nintendo. LEGO licenses the property from the company, then makes the toys based around that. Nintendo makes some money off of it, but I'm not sure they have much say of how LEGO makes the toys.

Lego have been quoted in interviews saying that this was a very close relationship with Nintendo, which is why there's the whole game aspect of it instead of just making licensed sets like with everyone else.

Either way, I don't know how rare the message even is, or if it's still even available. I'll save my outrage for when this thing starts pushing even more stuff.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
This doesn't really feel unusual at all when it comes to gaming OR interactive toys. That's not to say it's hunky dory but it's not remotely unusual either. I actually think it's kinda clever, like if a fighting game suddenly added new dialogue all secret like right before a new character reveal.

For sake of example, let's say that's all it is. Someone thought it would be cute if, in extremely rare circumstances, Mario was looking for Luigi. That it's a fun little way to make the toys feel alive and get some lowkey advertisement in that the kid can later ask their parents for, or the parent can themselves look up.

How long do you think it's going to take for this "innocent idea" to become exploited?
 

Kitty Paws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 21, 2019
380
Nice video! He brings up some very good points. This is sick and more than a little creepy.
 
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OP
Empyrean Cocytus

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,695
Upstate NY
This doesn't really feel unusual at all when it comes to gaming OR interactive toys. That's not to say it's hunky dory but it's not remotely unusual either. I actually think it's kinda clever, like if a fighting game suddenly added new dialogue all secret like right before a new character reveal.

That's kind of my feeling too. Mortal Kombat 11 has done that a lot, like when they put Mileena into Kitana's Friendship to tease her being added as DLC down the line. Or the constant references to Reptile just to piss people off.
 

mantidor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,791
I could see the concern if it was some brand new character or an obscure character, but Luigi? No child on earth who has this Lego set is unaware of who Luigi is. This is not selling anything to anyone, no more than any other toy that shows other toys of the same line in the back of the box.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,318
It sounds like this is more of a silly easter egg that happens rarely than a concerted advertising campaign.
 

Shemhazai

Member
Aug 13, 2020
6,456
I can definitely see a case of this basically being extra advertisement to get new toys, on top of just the advertisement on the front and back of the box. Had this been something he said if you paired him up with a Luigi LEGO or you wanted to add in this patch or something, I don't think that'd be a problem but this goes beyond that. That being said, I don't think this is some evil genius mastermind plan or anything but it's something I think should've been optional instead for the parent's sake


...you could say that for any big company. Not sure what your point is here unless you're trying to go with the classic "It's only defended because Nintendo", as if the same isn't done for all of them on here
Not sure how you can say that after the Xbox One debacle. Cut their console sales down by over a third for having some anti-consumer stuff that didn't even make it to the console launch. On the flip side these days every conversation about PS5 games devolves into Game Pass arguments and plenty of people saying they're switching ecosystems due to Sony's decisions this generation. Obviously we're yet to see the net effects of this yet, but Nintendo seems to be in this weird Disney-esque position where they can do some pretty "anti-consumer" stuff and calling it out feels like shouting into the void.
 

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,218
While not the most egregious form of advertising on earth, it's still not a good look.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,827
Not sure how you can say that after the Xbox One debacle. Cut their console sales down by over a third for having some anti-consumer stuff that didn't even make it to the console launch. On the flip side these days every conversation about PS5 games devolves into Game Pass arguments and plenty of people saying they're switching ecosystems due to Sony's decisions this generation. Obviously we're yet to see the net effects of this yet, but Nintendo seems to be in this weird Disney-esque position where they can do some pretty "anti-consumer" stuff and calling it out feels like shouting into the void.
Oh give me a break, Nintendo arguably gets criticized more often and more harshly than the rest of the two and let's not pretend there isn't an ardent defense force for Sony on here for every little thing, such as when their games don't get a perfect score from EDGE or when Jason Schrier and Mochi reported their hearings from Sony, or that the PS5's sales are or will be hurt in any way over any of their decisions. Never mind that you're ignoring the poor sales of like half of their consoles and the initial struggle of the 3DS. This idea that their decisions never harm them or that they don't get criticism is practically a denial of reality
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
That's kind of my feeling too. Mortal Kombat 11 has done that a lot, like when they put Mileena into Kitana's Friendship to tease her being added as DLC down the line. Or the constant references to Reptile just to piss people off.
MK is full of things like this and most of them lead to nothing. It's how they've always been. Mileena being in a friendship wasn't indicative of her becoming DLC prior to people knowing she was coming. Rain, Sindel, Sareena are all in MKX and non-playable. Ketchup, Mustard and Li Mei are in MK11 and unplayable. You even fight Cyrax, and you fought Sindel in MKX (I think Rain as well). There's more I'm sure in just the recent two games. Sometimes they come to fruition, sometimes they don't.
 

Quacktion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,479
And there it is. The classic.

And no, it's not because it's Nintendo that I don't think there's a problem.

Hell, if MikeProtagonist is right, Mario's call for Luigi doesn't even happen commonly. You'd think it would happen more often if it was meant as a marketing tactic.

If Mario was saying stuff like: "Where's my brother Luigi? Do you know where my brother Luigi is? Can you help me find my brother Luigi?" and he kept saying it constantly, then yeah, I'm probably think there's a problem.

If Mario was saying "Hey kids, buy Luigi!" that would be far more scummy, so I wouldn't call this the scummiest shit ever by definition.

And even then, I can think of ways that this would be scummier. Putting all the figures into blind boxes for instance, so you had a CHANCE of getting Luigi. Which really shows how fucking shit lootboxes are.
Honestly, I would appreciate it more for being so honest and laughably direct. This is subtly manipulative, and why I think way more scummy than just outright asking to buy a thing.
 

vrcsix

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,083
They knew exactly what they were doing here. There's no angle from which this isn't nefarious as fuck.

As a side note, I don't think I've ever heard Mario say "Luigi" in any of the games I've played. Plenty of Luigi crying for his big bro however.
 
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Shemhazai

Member
Aug 13, 2020
6,456
Oh give me a break, Nintendo arguably gets criticized more often and more harshly than the rest of the two and let's not pretend there isn't an ardent defense force for Sony on here for every little thing, such as when their games don't get a perfect score from EDGE or when Jason Schrier and Mochi reported their hearings from Sony, or that the PS5's sales are or will be hurt in any way over any of their decisions. Never mind that you're ignoring the poor sales of like half of their consoles and the initial struggle of the 3DS. This idea that their decisions never harm them or that they don't get criticism is practically a denial of reality
To be clear, Nintendo had a bad generation with the Wii U and 3DS because they managed to completely forgot how to market a product, not because they were doing anything shady.
I'm out though. No point arguing if the bolded is the legitimate headspace that you're coming from because we obviously have very different experiences and I'd rather not add any additional negativity. Sincerely hope you have a good day dude.
 

Kyuur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,533
Canada
Seems like a free upgrade to me. You don't have to buy another Mario toy that interacts with the Luigi toy you may or may not buy.

As long as there is added value I don't see the problem with it as a parent. TV shows that have the express purpose of marketing toys to kids get a pass because of their entertainment value too. I'm not afraid of my daughter asking me for new toys because I can say no and we can and do find other ways around it.
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,095
Peru
That is as fucked up as it is genius.

But seriously what the fuck.
Yeah, that's kind of my take as well. While I can appreciate how clever it is, it's also a bit scummy. Updating your toy to call for a newly-released one.
Does it bother me? Not really, but it's still weird to see.
Also, why am I not surprised this already turned into console wars...
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,617
For sake of example, let's say that's all it is. Someone thought it would be cute if, in extremely rare circumstances, Mario was looking for Luigi. That it's a fun little way to make the toys feel alive and get some lowkey advertisement in that the kid can later ask their parents for, or the parent can themselves look up.

How long do you think it's going to take for this "innocent idea" to become exploited?

It's already been exploited. Interactive toys have done this for years. Disney Infinity had huge sections of the game blocked off with big 'buy this set to keep playing' notes. Every game (for kids or adults) with DLC plasters the home menu with 'DLC available now' messages. The slippery slope has already been slipped and this specific example doesn't feel egregious to me.
 

Efejota

Member
Mar 13, 2018
3,750
Every day I feel like capitalism finds a new venue of horror.



Man your post is yikes. So disingenuous. Oof.



Your child's products probably shouldn't be advertising directly at them by creating a scenario in which your toy directly wants another toy to be bought.
Iirc there were some popular dolls a couple of years ago that got sick and you had to pay microtransactions at the mall to get them medicines, as in, the mall was the hospital. That certainly was worse than this.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,903
I don't think it's that scummy, it's more like an easter egg from my view than an ad since it A) never references the existence of the other set, such that to most users it probably won't come across as referencing anything at all, B) is timed to coincide with the announcement of the set in April, not the release of the set in August, C) only happens for users who update the toy's firmware, and D) is rare to the point that many users who do update it will never even see it at all. With those caveats taken together I think it's a perfectly fine teaser. As far as Lego's and Nintendo's marketing tactics go this is nowhere near some of their lowpoints, you have to really, really stretch to see this as anything out of the ordinary
 
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Smash-It Stan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Why would you not want your mario toy to interact with his brother? I tried for an hour trying to get the toy to say luigi but he wouldn't. He also literally just says "Luigi...Luigi? Luigi!" and that's all if you can get him to say it.

How's this different then buying any toy ever created and seeing pictures of other toys on the packaging or in the manual or what have you? Ya'll act like this is some incredibly egregious captilistic move that's ruining kids brains. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with how crazy some of the takes are in here.

They knew exactly what they were doing here. There's no angle from which this isn't nefarious as fuck.

As a side note, I don't think I've ever heard Mario say "Luigi" in any of the games I've played. Plenty of Luigi crying for his big bro however.
Nefarious? Really? What if you bought Mario and he got an update for a line for Bowser. You know the big bad guy he's been fighting for 100 years? But the Bowser toy came later. Is that nefarious and exploitation of children to get them to buy more? I have no idea what the people here are even upset about and you guys just come off as typing down angry words randomly.
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,688
As a bigger fan of Lego than I am of video games, I somehow had no idea about this.

I'm not sure if I'm more repulsed by the very existence of this thing or the fact that some people here don't have a problem with it.
 

LinkSlayer64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 6, 2018
2,290
Why would you not want your mario toy to interact with his brother? I tried for an hour trying to get the toy to say luigi but he wouldn't. He also literally just says "Luigi...Luigi? Luigi!" and that's all if you can get him to say it.

How's this different then buying any toy ever created and seeing pictures of other toys on the packaging or in the manual or what have you? Ya'll act like this is some incredibly egregious captilistic move that's ruining kids brains. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with how crazy some of the takes are in here.


Nefarious? Really? What if you bought Mario and he got an update for a line for Bowser. You know the big bad guy he's been fighting for 100 years? But the Bowser toy came later. Is that nefarious and exploitation of children to get them to buy more? I have no idea what the people here are even upset about and you guys just come off as typing down angry words randomly.
Easy way to do this
You pair up the toys. Once a mario (or a luigi, or whoever) has paired with the toy, it unlocks additional voice lines. Or once your app detects you have both, it downloads optional voice line updates. There were other ways to do this. Had the toy started with the lines, I would probably see no problem, but the timing just comes off uergh.
 

HereticGrin

Member
Feb 16, 2018
385
How the fuck are people okay with this. This is absolutely disgusting marketing from Nintendo and LEGO.
 

Puddington

Member
Nov 2, 2017
322
Before this thread, I didn't know they announced a Lego Luigi.

Luigi is my jam. I don't care how they sell him and who they sell him to. Just put out a Luigi's Mansion set too please!
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,688
And there it is. The classic.

And no, it's not because it's Nintendo that I don't think there's a problem.

Hell, if MikeProtagonist is right, Mario's call for Luigi doesn't even happen commonly. You'd think it would happen more often if it was meant as a marketing tactic.

If Mario was saying stuff like: "Where's my brother Luigi? Do you know where my brother Luigi is? Can you help me find my brother Luigi?" and he kept saying it constantly, then yeah, I'm probably think there's a problem.

I imagine if it were constantly doing it, more parents would notice and perhaps have a problem with it. The child playing with the toy spends more time with it and will eventually hear the new message.

It's more insidious, not less.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,288
I really can't see the need for anger at this lol. Like I get why, but I can't force myself to be mad at this. It's such a non-issue. Feel really disconnected from the era hyperbole on this one. I was trying to scour the OP and was just confused on what I was supposed to be fuming with rage over.

Does he stop calling for Luigi if you buy him?
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,177
I thought it was a funny reversal to Luigi screaming Mario name all the time on the Luigi Mansion games