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Mukrab

Member
Apr 19, 2020
7,480
Just going to quietly drop Hollow Knight and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory in here...

Personally agree on Hollow Knight. Not saying it's bad or anything, and I'm usually good at memorizing stuff in 3D metroidvanias, in 2D however I think I'm pretty bad at memorizing stuff, or is it rather a common thing that we are better at memorizing 3D stuff?
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Metal Gear Solid is set up in such a memorable, easy-to-read way that I could probably draw the map from memory.

The Black Shroud map in FFXIV 1.0 looks like a nightmare. Never played 1.0 myself but my girlfriend has shared a number of horror stories with me.
ffxiv-maps-the-black-shroud.jpg

I had no idea FFXIV 1.0 was so grid-like, wow

I should watch some videos of it one of these days
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
There are parts of Phantasy Star I on the Sega Master System where the map will do impossible things. Like, if you use graph paper and map it out, you'll have halls that should be impossibly long and bump into other hallways, but don't. One of the most annoying things about making maps for that game.
 

Gush

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,096
Hyper Light Drifter's map is also ass.
1*LJ0pEGolbuUxPT8dBIrMJQ.png


Great game otherwise, though.

Came to post this

Can't stand Doom 2016 or Nier Automata's maps either.

You all need to get on the level of Thief: The Dark Project. You start off with this in the first level.

EkHNhSP.jpg


And later on you get gems like this one for Constantine's Mansion

7dN84qW.jpg


And don't forget this masterpiece!

vW0U2sF.jpg

These are the best maps in a game though
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
There are parts of Phantasy Star I on the Sega Master System where the map will do impossible things. Like, if you use graph paper and map it out, you'll have halls that should be impossibly long and bump into other hallways, but don't. One of the most annoying things about making maps for that game.

I wonder how the Sega Ages port handles that, considering it can automatically draw the map on screen
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,275
I think Shadow Complex and Division 2 have pretty good maps, with enough detail to understand it.

I understand the sentiment on Nier: Automata, the lack of detail is really weird considering it takes place like 3 thousand years in the future?
 

Ctrl Alt Del

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,312
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Can't have a thread about maps without mentioning Miasmata.
What a phenomenal game, and it's basically about cartography.
I can't explain it in a good way so I'll just link to the wiki's great explanation.

But basically triangulation yada yada. Might not sound like fun but I absolutely loved it. I think I might need to do another playthrough...

latest
I thought the idea was pretty nice but it turned me off on the game pretty darn fast. Found out I couldn't map shit easily. I should give it another go sometime.
 

OGlol

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,391
I don't really have photos but the first few that come to mind

Most of Control
Zeffo on Jedi Fallen Order
Ancient Forest for Monster Hunter World
 

Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
I've always fucking hated the pipboy maps in Fallout 3 and 4. It's one of the reasons I've never been able to get into the games. It's so fucking ugly and unhelpful.

Maybe an unpopular opinion lol
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,684
Shadow of the Colossus had an interesting map. You couldn't use it to traverse precisely, but it was good enough to at least orient you to the right direction. The game was about exploring, after all
 

SigSig

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,777
This POS can fuck off forever. Once I entered this map, I basically spammed flywings until near the exit I needed to take. Absolute disaster of a map.
prt_fild02.gif

There's another map around Alberta that's absolutely and utterly terrible and a Geffen Field map, but none as bad as this.
 

tommyv2

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,425
Dreamfall Chapters made me question my sanity. Horrific town design and navigation and maps you can only access in a few places instead of on-demand.
 

R2RD

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Nov 6, 2018
2,784
Good luck following a flying monster in this mess of a map.
MHW-AncientForest.jpg

edit: That's ancient forest of Monster hunter world.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,877
Montreal
I know everyone posts the Shroud image from FFXIV 1.0, but in my opinion, the Shroud at least makes sense from the perspective of it being a maze-like forest.

However, the Coerthas map was 100% worse, especially since you couldn't jump and you could only fall off certain cliffs and you also certainly could not climb cliffs. It makes navigating this a nightmare:

ffxiv-maps-coerthas.jpg
 

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member
I love SMT: Strange Journey but that one teleporter maze in Sector Eridanus was just...ugh. Redux helps with it quite a bit by giving you an app that lets you tap a teleporter square on the map to show where it will take you, but it's still a slog to traverse.

3L3t6ld.png
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,278
Quoting a post I made last year about Other M's horrible in game map systems:
Just to add another example to the list of why Metroid Other M is a game design nightmare, the pause menu map and the in game HUD's minimap are completely different.

Here is what the pause menu map more or less looks like for Sector 3, Pyrosphere:
GLDkHlp.jpg


Here is Samus traveling south in the thin vertical corridor on the west hand side of the above map. Note that the minimap arrow points upwards. The entire minimap is backwards in this particular corridor--the minimap twists and turns in arbitrary directions all throughout the game, it's not tied to your direction, and there is no "North" on the compass.
c5egXni.jpg


And here is a picture of Samus traveling through the big, roughly rectangular room in the top map. The pause menu map not only does not correlate to the minimap's cardinal directions, the pause menu map's rooms are often not even the same damn shape or even remotely accurate. The gigantic rectangular room is actually three distinct paths of islands crossing a lava lake that are later connected by Grapple Points. The pause menu map doesn't even remotely tell you what the room's structure actually resembles.
L7OqnXr.jpg


I have yet to see another game with a map system this terrible. The map is essentially useless for the main game, as the game is constantly just funneling you down linear corridors and flat out locking extraneous doors to do so, but going for 100% in the post game really highlights just how obnoxiously terrible it is.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,392
Jedi Fallen Order's map was hard to use at first but it was actually one of the best once you got the hang of it. It was a perfect representation of the game world and even gave you information on which shortcuts and secrets you had access to based on the powers you had unlocked.

Hollow Knight

I loved having to have a charm equipped the entirety of the game, just to know where I was on a map. I loved having to hunt down a shop keeper who's usually in the middle of the new area to buy a map for the place I'm in. I loved discovering more and more areas just to get piles of useless cash because 70% of the entire map is completely optional.

Gonna have to agree with this. And the fact that the map was only sort of accurate was so frustrating.
 

pikablu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,321
Worst map system ever to me was Yokai Watch 1. It was so useless. Glad they fixed it in 2 and 3.
 

Ser Ignatius

Chicken Chaser
Member
Apr 15, 2020
473
Monster Hunter World for me. I bounced off of that game hard and the map was what put me over the edge. Trying to figure out where I was and how to get to where I needed to be on those maps was awful.
 

jakomocha

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,571
California
The Borderlands games have reallly bad maps. Idk what it is about them but my friends always get lost. The fast travel system in BL3 is even more confusing
 

foamdino

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
491
I'll see whatever you have and raise you this mess:
356320-world-of-aden-thunderscape-dos-screenshot-auto-mapping-system.png


From quite a good (for it's time) PC party based rpg - Thunderscape. The big innovation - auto mapping but which floor are you on <shrug>
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,986
The Doom Eternal map is the best 3D map I've seen. It very clearly shows you where you and the level's secrets and enemy encounters are located.
Doom-Eternal-Rabbit-Map.jpg

The red circle is an edit. It's not actually there in the game.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,263
The Doom Eternal map is the best 3D map I've seen. It very clearly shows you where you and the level's secrets and enemy encounters are located.
Doom-Eternal-Rabbit-Map.jpg

The red circle is an edit. It's not actually there in the game.

It's an amazing map...

...but to me I could barely see it because HDR mode on PC turns down the brightness on the map significantly. Nothing else in the game, just the map :(
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,969
What about: every single game whose mini-map does not rotate with the camera.
I can understand keeping the full map in a fixed orientation - though I'd argue whether that works well or not really depends on the game, and should be an option.
But keeping the mini-map in a fixed orientation renders it completely useless in most games. Anecdotally, it seems far more common in Japanese games than western ones.
 

Lowrys

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,310
London
W5ZsBDfg.png


AC Unity with all icons turned on.

Jesus Christ.
No offence to you, but I wish people would stop posting this. If you took most open world maps l, turned on all icons and zoomed out to the level Unity allows, they'd look just as cluttered.

It doesn't even look that cluttered considering this is a dense, huge city.

Unity's map is actually very good, and they also produced a free map app so you could have the map on your ipad or whatever while playing so you could see where you were in real-time, which was fucking great and meant you didn't need to keep opening the in-game map.
 
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Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,180
I remember really liking VVVVVV's map. It was one of the few Metroidvania's I never really got lost in.

I haven't played it, but Resident Evil 2 Remake's sounds absolutely perfect. Color coding rooms based on completion rate or Rey's needed, marking things you've seen but may have missed when you left the room, etc.

I never got far in Fez, but I found its map to be pretty confusing once I got lost. I don't envy the developer to make an easily readable map in a game where the whole world rotates.
Fallout 3. Getting anywhere specific in the main city was infuriating.
Yeah, I remember downtown DC was a pain to get around in all the streets since they were destroyed and filled with dead ends so you had to go through the sewers, pop back up to the street, go down another sewer, etc.

You basically had to just trust the waypoint to guide you.
 
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Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
Fable I and Fable II had great maps.

Obviously Fable III has NO maps, even if the areas you're in are decently sized. If you press start, you go into that real-time "pause" area when you can look at A MODEL of the area you are in. A MODEL WITH ARTISTIC LICENCES.
 

Karlinel

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
7,826
Mallorca, Spain
Just last year we had to WOAT candidate maps in Control (which added a surprising lag in its popping up) and Jedia: Fallen Order. I would add, for being somewhat original I'd say MonHun maps are confusing AF to me.
 

mclem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,417
With the important caveat that this was the early days of 3D post-Doom and therefore people were still learning how to express a 3D space in a 2D environment, I give you Descent's map:

mPMXkUx.png


To be fair, with Descent's 6DOF it was never going to be particularly easy to express their map's layout, but still, it can be *such* a confusing mess.
 

Nikus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,357
Jedi Fallen Order's map was hard to use at first but it was actually one of the best once you got the hang of it. It was a perfect representation of the game world and even gave you information on which shortcuts and secrets you had access to based on the powers you had unlocked.
Yeah, it was very similar to the maps of the Metroid Prime trilogy. These maps can be confusing at first but I don't see how it could be done better.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,237
Yuhtunga Jungle in FFXI. It took me moths to finally understand how it works, meaning there would be parties I'd get invited to only to end up leaving because I could not figure out how to get to them. All those little ends do not come out at the nearest one like you think they would It's a clusterfuck of a map.

Yuhtunga-Jungle.jpg


I too thought about Black Shroud for FFXIV 1.0 for a few reasons but overall Yutunga was worse for me so I went with that one. I'm glad to see it was mentioned anyway.

Wanted to post this. I have a love/hate relationship with this map. However, after figuring out how it works it actually starts to make sense.

Final Fantasy XI as a whole had some really bad maps. My least favorite was Yorcia Weald. This is the in-game map, for anyone who has never played the game:

71nDsTe.png


These are the actual paths through the zone:

NnX6cn1.png


The actual in-game map is basically useless because you can't really find any of the maps on it. It literally was useless when Seekers of Adoulin launched. The map was bugged and your location marker on the map didn't line up with where you actually were.
Wow, I've never even heard of that area. Gotta look up it up. That map is garbage...
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,540
This reminds me: what were some times when a)the player basically had to manually draw a map, like, in real life, to keep track of things and b)this feature was widely lauded/enjoyed?

Because a lot of devs with confusing maps seem to hold this up as some platonic ideal, that players should enjoy real life cartography to really get the most value out of map creation. I've been playing games for decades now and I have to say, if there was ever a game where things were so complicated that I needed to make my own physical map, that would almost certainly be way too confusing to be fun.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,190
The Doom Eternal map is the best 3D map I've seen. It very clearly shows you where you and the level's secrets and enemy encounters are located.
Doom-Eternal-Rabbit-Map.jpg

The red circle is an edit. It's not actually there in the game.
As a rule, I always find 3D maps unusable and anxiety-inducing. This one is my exception.