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doomrider7

Member
Feb 21, 2019
676
I'm assuming this is a troll post, but I never understood the meme of saying non-iphone users are broke or poor, when flagship android phones are about the same price as the latest iphones. I wonder where it came from originally.

Like I said, it's a status symbol thing. Even at their most expensive, most if not all Android flagship phones are still well below the price tag of the Apple equivalent by at least $300. Having an iPhone is the modern equivalent of having a diamond encrusted ring or watch or something back in the olden days to flaunt your wealth.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,064
Phoenix, AZ
Like I said, it's a status symbol thing. Even at their most expensive, most if not all Android flagship phones are still well below the price tag of the Apple equivalent by at least $300. Having an iPhone is the modern equivalent of having a diamond encrusted ring or watch or something back in the olden days to flaunt your wealth.

The only thing that really makes the iphone more is if you pay extra for a lot of storage. But base price of the iphone 11/11 pro/11 pro max isn't really that far off from a samsung galaxy s10e/s10/s10+/note 10. There's maybe about a $100 difference between them. Paying $999 for an S10+ vs $1099 for an 11 Pro Max is basically the same.

I know there's dumb people out there that actually care and think their phone is a status symbol, but it will never make sense to me. Its just a phone. You can afford one working a shitty minimum wage job. How does that make it a status symbol?
 

doomrider7

Member
Feb 21, 2019
676
The only thing that really makes the iphone more is if you pay extra for a lot of storage. But base price of the iphone 11/11 pro/11 pro max isn't really that far off from a samsung galaxy s10e/s10/s10+/note 10. There's maybe about a $100 difference between them. Paying $999 for an S10+ vs $1099 for an 11 Pro Max is basically the same.

I know there's dumb people out there that actually care and think their phone is a status symbol, but it will never make sense to me. Its just a phone. You can afford one working a shitty minimum wage job. How does that make it a status symbol?

That amount is more than some people's mortage, rent, car, or student loans. Some of these combined. It's not owning a phone, it's owning and iPhone. You do have a good point about the prices, but it's still bullshit since the memory can be expanded on the Android phones, but not the Apple ones.
 

404Ender

Member
Oct 25, 2017
793
That amount is more than some people's mortage, rent, car, or student loans. Some of these combined. It's not owning a phone, it's owning and iPhone. You do have a good point about the prices, but it's still bullshit since the memory can be expanded on the Android phones, but not the Apple ones.

how many people actually buy their phones outright? It's generally just a small monthly fee. No one is bragging about how their phone is a status symbol that costs an extra $10 per month to own than some other flagship phone...
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,084
how many people actually buy their phones outright? It's generally just a small monthly fee. No one is bragging about how their phone is a status symbol that costs an extra $10-15 per month to own...
I'd assume a lot. I assume those who buy them outright also hold onto them for more than a year. It's the plan members who change up yearly because it's more sensible in a way. My wife had her iPhone 6+ for the longest time until we got her an iPhone XS Max. She'll most likely have that for half a decade.
 

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
Losing headphone jacks and (lol) SD slots means my phone and many commonly available phones are waterproof and idgaf shat anyone says that's a trade I'm grateful for. Even if it's at weirdo's expense.

Also, nobody is forcing Bluetooth anything. You now have a dongle. A minor inconvenience. And, bullshit assumption incoming, if you really care about headphones and audio quality you'd be smart to have a DAC/amp anyway. Which, know, goes through a digital port like USB or lightning anyway.

Totally agree on batteries though. I'd be all for a) guaranteed fair price battery maintenance for the lifetime of any non-replaceable battery device's battery and b) Enforced battery minimum requirements for battery health/cycles with the average use of a device being factored in. Along with education about recycling batteries and pushing for trade in incentives for proper recycling and disposal of electronics.

As for things becoming commodities and expected lifespans of so much personal tech shrinking, that's gonna be a hard to pill to swallow but I welcome the day.

Also, people whining about SD cards, batteries and headphones. Looked up a best of Android 2019 and skimmed through and two phones in and neither has 3.5mm nor SD cards. Didn't even bother looking for batteries because they offered quick charging and I was already bored.

And a status symbol straw man, nice.
 

404Ender

Member
Oct 25, 2017
793

That would shock me, but I don't have any data at the moment to back it up nor time to dig around for it so I can't exactly refute your assumption, just disagree with it.

You really think a lot of people drop $1000 on their phones? Between the old carrier subsidies and the new Apple plans that just seems nonsensical. There's no advantage really to doing it that way anymore. I used to be super pro-buying but then I kept running the numbers after Apple started offering the plan and it stopped making sense given the flexible nature of the contract.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,084
That would shock me, but I don't have any data at the moment to back it up nor time to dig around for it so I can't exactly refute your assumption, just disagree with it.

You really think a lot of people drop $1000 on their phones? Between the old carrier subsidies and the new Apple plans that just seems nonsensical. There's no advantage really to doing it that way anymore. I used to be super pro-buying but then I kept running the numbers after Apple started offering the plan and it stopped making sense given the flexible nature of the contract.
Well, if you look at Canada's standard plans you're looking at about $90 a month with the smart phone included, it can even go higher since some people love more gigs.

Let's go with a $1200 iPhone and a decent 4gig plan that my wife uses: that's about $1750 a month (after phone purchase). Going with the $90 plan with the phone included is $1080 a year, go two years and it's $2160. Each year is almost a thousand dollars while buying + decent plan will lead to half that each year until you need to rebuy.

Long term it's more economical in a sense. You can absolutely go past the $90 plan with an already bought phone but I doubt the majority do that.
 

404Ender

Member
Oct 25, 2017
793
Well, if you look at Canada's standard plans you're looking at about $90 a month with the smart phone included, it can even go higher since some people love more gigs.

Let's go with a $1200 iPhone and a decent 4gig plan that my wife uses: that's about $1750 a month (after phone purchase). Going with the $90 plan with the phone included is $1080 a year, go two years and it's $2160. Each year is almost a thousand dollars while buying + decent plan will lead to half that each year until you need to rebuy.

Long term it's more economical in a sense. You can absolutely go past the $90 plan with an already bought phone but I doubt the majority do that.

$1750 per month? I'm not following...

Do you have to bundle phone service with the phone in Canada? Otherwise that seems to just be overcomplicating the calculations.

I didn't realize Apple's payment plan either isn't available in all countries or has different terms.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,084
$1750 per month? I'm not following...

Do you have to bundle phone service with the phone in Canada? Otherwise that seems to just be overcomplicating the calculations.

I didn't realize Apple's payment plan either isn't available in all countries or has different terms.
I mean yearly. $1750-2k for the year, while the phone bundle plans will be way more after the second year compared to buying. In fact, I looked up Rogers: 10g slow plan is $115 a year, so it'll be even most costly.

IMO, phone bundle plans are a lot like those places where you rent to own furniture, TVs, etc where there's a stupid high interest rate and you end up paying more overall for the product. It seems cheaper because not everyone has the money to outright buy the phone. Could always use credit and make minimum payments and stuff.
 

404Ender

Member
Oct 25, 2017
793
I mean yearly. $1750-2k for the year, while the phone bundle plans will be way more after the second year compared to buying. In fact, I looked up Rogers: 10g slow plan is $115 a year, so it'll be even most costly.

IMO, phone bundle plans are a lot like those places where you rent to own furniture, TVs, etc where there's a stupid high interest rate and you end up paying more overall for the product. It seems cheaper because not everyone has the money to outright buy the phone. Could always use credit and make minimum payments and stuff.

Yeah bundle plans are often garbage, I'm not talking about those.
 

Deleted member 54170

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 25, 2019
234
Losing headphone jacks and (lol) SD slots means my phone and many commonly available phones are waterproof and idgaf shat anyone says that's a trade I'm grateful for. Even if it's at weirdo's expense.

I bought a moto x4 two years ago which has a headphone jack and supports sd cards and it is ip68 certified. A headphone jack and a sd slot have nothing to do with waterproofing.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
Lol at this post.

Apple consumers are sheep yet everyone else apparently bend over backwards as well?

What's the difference between the 2 then?

I'm not going to buy a phone without a headphone jack. If I kept my phones for 3+ years it would be nice to have removable batteries as it saves the time and money needed to swap out a battery given that they wear out.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,425
I don't even understand where all this rage towards Apple comes from. In the third quarter of 2019, 13 percent of all smartphones sold worldwide were a iPhones. They have tiny marketshare. If you don't like their decisions, there are an abundance of other options, and the vast majority of people worldwide decide to do exactly that.


Well its a discussion forum. If I made a thread basically praising game publishers for taking what previously was included content, and chopping it up into paid DLC bits, and stuffing games with micro transactions from stem to stern, then topped it off by saying how wonderful it is that Nintendo Sony and MS now all charge for gaming online on consoles when it was previously (and still is on PC) free, then you would see a lot of random "rage" too.

If for whatever reason that kind of stuff that doesn't benefit the consumer at ALL is your jam, then fine. But don't broadcast it as some pious great thing that all worked out in our favor and not expect some pushback...

Lol bunch of broke salty people in this thread. Can't hear y'all over my noise cancelling AirPod Pros

You know, you don't "undo" making yourself look like an ass by later claiming it was "bait". Doesn't work that way.
 
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shenden

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,298
For sure. Especially the headphone jack removal was indeed brave as they said and it turned out they were correct

I still hate this shit and their adapter fucking sucks and breaks down and you have to buy a new one every now and then. So no OP, their decisions don't always turn out fine. I also realise that the only reason I'm still actually an Iphone user these days is because my company pays for it.
 

TurokTTZ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
597
Corporate apologists? On ResetEra?

Shocked!

...

Well not that shocked. Some clown in this thread probably hyping up dem deadass airpods whilst my $35 earbuds from 2017 delivers superior audio performance and doesn't take up the charging USB port for an extended listening experience.

Anyone hyping up wireless headphones/buds over wired anything gotta be smoking some strong shit.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
I know I am only one person, but removing the headphone jack has stopped me from wanting to buy any iPhones.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,978
I'd say this:
I'd still like a headphone jack.
Still like SD support.
And would love removable batteries.

I don't think there's a right answer here that Apple got right or wrong. All of this shit, in the end as a product is more or less irrelevant. People aren't really dying over this, any convenience or inconvenience over these is marginal, and in Apple's case more than the Android manufacturers which face way worse competition and smaller profit margins, isn't courageous.

IPhone users were going to buy what Apple put out, they could still have the 3.5mm jack and people would still buy it. Nobody's never bought a phone because it had a headphone jack. Nobody bought a phone because it didn't have SD card support. Nobody bought a phone because you couldn't replace the battery.

I grew up when we had nothing but portable calculators, voice recorders, cameras and radios. Granted there were all kinds of portable things but I'm just talking about what you could fit in your pocket not monstrous double deck tape players or turntables that ran on 10 pounds of D batteries that you can hardly find anymore. It was amazing that for a brief moment all the portable things of the era converged and we literally got a portable everything with the first modern smartphones, radio, music, a calculator app, dictionaries, rechargeable and replaceable batteries, cameras, you name it. It was great.

It will always be great. And every feature stripped away will forever be a loss. Obviously the loss of FM radio(with the headphone jack) wouldn't be the death knell of a phone, it's not technically what a phone is, just like you could ban the calculator app for most people, you could ban a voice recorder app for most people, you could probably strip away most features sans social media apps, texting apps, the web browser, GPS, the camera and the phone, slap it in an iPhone case and sell it. That's beside the point. The point is each time it is a lesser product because of it.

And technology moves fast enough that you can pick most things to drop and at some point you will be "right," you could say drop support for all Wifi signals but the latest, one day that will be correct, drop support for all but the latest bluetooth, one day that will be correct, all this shit changes.

In my opinion what Samsung shows, at the bare minimum because I don't know why they are dropping the 3.5mm jack, is that Apple could have held it on longer and pleased more of their customers without it being an engineering issue that prohibited anything and that they didn't, purely for money. That's not brave or good. LG has shown you can still keep the jack, it's a fucking shame they can't do updates competently or even launch a phone right in this country or I would have bought a LG V50, but alas, no unlocked model and the Korean varient didn't have the bands needed.

Smartphones are a weird device because I think the whole market could have turned out differently, right before the switchover we had phones that had weeks of standby time and direct usage many times over what a smartphone had. Had the industry decided to chase different metrics instead of pure power and instead chose a slightly different balance between power and longevity you wouldn't know any different because that would be the world you know. If everyone kept the jack you wouldn't know any better. If Apple had proper file support you wouldn't know any better. Because all of this is somewhat irrelevant and based purely on what companies decide to put out.

Just the tech sector is the only one where people seem to cheer features getting cut. I find that hilarious. That's what makes a person a sheep. I don't know why anyone would ever champion a feature getting cut from anything.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
Turns out that if you don't give consumer options except to buy the more expensive thing, they buy the expensive thing.
 
OP
OP
Arthands

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
Earlier today, this article pops up on a fan site of its competitor, which explains Bluetooth is good enough to kill headphone jack phones


The latest developments in Bluetooth headphones and speakers have also made the lack of a headphone jack in phones much more palatable — even for people who were skeptical early on. Daily usability is getting considerably better thanks to more efficient Bluetooth standards, better battery tech, USB-C and Qi charging, and rechargeable cases for earbuds.

The ubiquity of Bluetooth tech, and chicken-and-egg juggle of headphone jacks disappearing from phones, has also led to a robust and diverse ecosystem of headphones and speakers of every style, size, capability level and price point. The ubiquity of Bluetooth tech, At one point, the market was limited and for those willing to break the bank, but that's no longer the case.

You can get high-end $350 over-ear noise-canceling headphones, great neckbuds that range from $40 to $200, and speakers of every conceivable size. Thanks to the latest Bluetooth implementations we now have dozens of fantastic truly wireless earbud options that finally take cords out of the equation entirely — that in itself was enough for many people to give up the headphone jack.

Guess who kickstarted the trend of leaving the headphone jack off that help ' led to a robust and diverse ecosystem of headphones and speakers of every style, size, capability level and price point'? Yup, exactly.

Is Bluetooth a perfect replacement for a wired headphone connection? Definitely not. It has its own compromises and problems. But since companies started selling phones without headphone jacks, Bluetooth hasn't sat still — the protocol has improved, as has the variety and quality of Bluetooth headphones and speakers across the board. Using a phone without a headphone jack today is far better than it was in 2016 — to the point where we not only accept using Bluetooth audio, we prefer it.

Guess who kickstart the ear bud trend that now leads to the introduction of Surface ear buds, Samsung Galaxy earbuds, Pixel buds, Echo buds in recent years?
 
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KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,249
Apple's iphone is no stranger to controversy moves, but it seems as time goes by, it turns out as the correct decisions in the end. Here are some of them.

1)Almost a decade ago, Steve Jobs publicly dumped on Flash, and explain why they don't allow Flash on their products. At that moment, various people begin poking fun at Apple for not having Flash, and tout Android phones's Flash support as an one-up over iphone. In retrospect, it seems that continuing support for Flash on mobile is really just prolonging something that should have been long gone, and holding back technology advancement. If Android dumped Flash back then too, Flash will have died earlier, which will have allow HTML5, CSS and JavaScript to flourish already, allowing us to enjoy their benefits earlier. Now, who's missing Flash? Flash on the internet has essentially become obsolete.

It wasn't a bad move per se but so many websites used that shit back in those days. My friends were glad I owned an Android phone so we could check the menu of restaurants or find out what music was playing in clubs that night while we were out and about. Those websites didn't update themselves and if you only had access to iPhones you were screwed.
Also, Apple wanted people to use the App Store and not go around it. So this was another move that was driven by profits.

2)People criticized Apple's lack of removable battery, claiming that this disallow easy swapping of batteries when their battery is depleted or malfunction. Turns out over the years, people realized that this means less waterproofing, and because phones get damaged when dropped, people started putting on phone cover to protect their phone, and then realize that this means swapping battery is harder. Newer phones last longer, and power bank came into existence, which means even lesser reason for people to swap battery if their phone runs out of juice. Fast forward toward, most if not every flagship phones doesn't have removeable battery anymore. People embraced phone with no removable covers. I mean sure you can still buy an Android phones with removable cover, but nobody's citing it as a selling point now.

I feel like you are reaching with this argument. iPhones were pretty much the first player to not allow battery swaps but also the last one to waterproof their phones. Citing waterproofing as the reason is pretty disingenuous when it's obvious that they just wanted to profit on battery swaps.
The comment about phone cases making it harder to swap batteries so it's OK to not be able to swapping them at all is also pretty ridiculous.
Removing a case and then swapping a battery is still way easier than sending a phone with a shitty battery in for repairs or driving to a store that could fix it.
Waterproof phones are pretty much the norm now in the high-end part of the market but Apple sure as hell didn't push for it.

3)3 years ago, Apple removed the headphone jack from the iphone. Samsung and various companies started mocking Apple about it. Fast forward to this year, Samsung removed all of those mocking videos and pretend nothing happened, as they explain why they removed the headphone jack from their Galaxy Note 10. Google removed it from their Pixel 4 too, while OnePlus 7T Pro removed it as well, just to name some examples. Suddenly, the airpods went from mockery to millennial status symbol. Even the 3rd party airpods earbuds are gaining popularity, and Microsoft, Huawei, Amazon and Samsung etc introduces their own earbuds in recent time. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying wired earphones is dead, but the wind is certainly changing and it is increasingly common for people to wear earbuds in public.

I'm pretty neutral on this but I wouldn't say Apple made the correct call here. The correct call would be to give people a choice. Apple decided to drop the headphone jack to sell other stuff, not because it made the phones better.
I've been using BT Bose headphones for a while now and I'm not planning on going back but using BT is not allowed on airplanes so I use the cable that came with the headphones. I hope my next set comes with an USB-C adapter once I upgrade my current phone.

4)And removable SD card is yet another example. Still alive (barely), but its been seeing a gradual death over the years in non-iphone smartphones too, just like Flash. People started shifting to streaming musics and shows, and uploading their stuffs up onto the cloud that sd card support is becoming meaningless over time. Galaxy Note 10 and Galaxy Fold doesn't have removable SD card, and people are hardly kicking up a fuss over it now.

Again, Apple didn't make this decision to make their phones better. They wanted you to spend $100+ to get the 16 GB version instead of the 8 GB version instead of buying a removable (micro/mini) SD card for $10.
Phones these days come with a lot more base storage so there's less need to upgrade anyways but other manufacturers realized they could also charge people ridiculous prices for extra storage. They didn't follow to make their phones better, they followed because they also wanted to make more money.


Don't pretend Apple makes these controversial decisions because they are just so far ahead of the game that people can't comprehend the ingenuity behind it until years later when the market has shifted in that direction.
Apple might not be the market leader when it comes to volume of phones but they are the leader when it comes to profits so it's easy to understand why other manufacturers copy some of their decisions. They don't do it because it makes the products better. They do it to make more money, just like Apple.



Apple was correct about Flash and the internet is a better place now that it's essentially dead but the other three are still fucked. I've got an S8 at the minute and have no idea what I'm going to upgrade to.

The S10 line still has a headphone jack.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
I'm not going to buy a phone without a headphone jack. If I kept my phones for 3+ years it would be nice to have removable batteries as it saves the time and money needed to swap out a battery given that they wear out.
That's great but you're in a minority. Labeling Apple users as sheep while Android users behavior was basically the same is weird.
 

deflektor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
89
Losing headphone jacks and (lol) SD slots means my phone and many commonly available phones are waterproof and idgaf shat anyone says that's a trade I'm grateful for. Even if it's at weirdo's expense.

Well, Sony has offered waterproofing on their flagships since Xperia Z back in 2013... And they continued to include both headphone jack AND sd card slot up until Xperia XZ1.They have removed the jack since then but they still offer sd card slot.
 

Mokujin

Member
Oct 31, 2017
451
Aside from Flash the other ones sound like fan defending takes, jack removal will forever be one of the most shameful things Apple has done, scrapping touch ID was also super stupid with so many options to bring it back currently.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,978
Well, Sony has offered waterproofing on their flagships since Xperia Z back in 2013... And they continued to include both headphone jack AND sd card slot up until Xperia XZ1.They have removed the jack since then but they still offer sd card slot.
Right, same as Samsung and LG up to this point.

It's clear dropping the jack isn't exactly necessary, may make it easier but isn't necessary.

We may indeed be at the point today where it is mostly necessary, maybe Samsung has to drop it for an engineering reason, finally, I don't know. But it was definitely unnecessary when Apple did it and their reason at the time was a lie.

I just really wish LG was more of a competitor on the Android front. I would love to see how they'd fair if their updates weren't a fucking joke and they launched their phones better in this country if they could actually put up a fight.

Because this argument always boils down to if the headphone jack is so important why is no-one buying them and the issue is usually choice or lack there of. Outside of Samsung (which does sell well) and LG you have basically no options and if Samsung drops out you only have LG and their phones are good but there's definitely some trade offs you make buying an LG phone. Only way this answer would ever really be answered is if Apple or Samsung offered two versions of their phone, one with a jack and one without and see if it sold, but once the feature's not there, well, you gonna stop buying good phones?
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,809
Aside from Flash the other ones sound like fan defending takes, jack removal will forever be one of the most shameful things Apple has done, scrapping touch ID was also super stupid with so many options to bring it back currently.

Yeah the touch id going is stupid and unnecessary. The phone I have is nicer than any iPhone and better. Also has touch id and face recognition and takes a memory card.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
I still wish someone would make a phone where the back plate is more like a protective case including battery that can be wholly removed and replaced, with the screen and skeleton of the phone being what's left. You could buy different cases with bigger battery sizes or even additional features like extra cameras perhaps. And it's designed to maintain waterproofing btw..

I know it will never happen and they will cite impracticality or it adding extra bulk (which honestly I think is BS if they designed it well). Also they'd much rather have the battery unremovable and for it to deplete after a year or two to the point (like me now) where you either send it in for a battery replacement or just get a new phone which is frankly easier to do).
 

eosos

Banned
Dec 21, 2017
603
User Banned (3 Days): Trolling. Previously banned for trolling.
I'd say this:
I'd still like a headphone jack.
Still like SD support.
And would love removable batteries.

I don't think there's a right answer here that Apple got right or wrong. All of this shit, in the end as a product is more or less irrelevant. People aren't really dying over this, any convenience or inconvenience over these is marginal, and in Apple's case more than the Android manufacturers which face way worse competition and smaller profit margins, isn't courageous.

IPhone users were going to buy what Apple put out, they could still have the 3.5mm jack and people would still buy it. Nobody's never bought a phone because it had a headphone jack. Nobody bought a phone because it didn't have SD card support. Nobody bought a phone because you couldn't replace the battery.

I grew up when we had nothing but portable calculators, voice recorders, cameras and radios. Granted there were all kinds of portable things but I'm just talking about what you could fit in your pocket not monstrous double deck tape players or turntables that ran on 10 pounds of D batteries that you can hardly find anymore. It was amazing that for a brief moment all the portable things of the era converged and we literally got a portable everything with the first modern smartphones, radio, music, a calculator app, dictionaries, rechargeable and replaceable batteries, cameras, you name it. It was great.

It will always be great. And every feature stripped away will forever be a loss. Obviously the loss of FM radio(with the headphone jack) wouldn't be the death knell of a phone, it's not technically what a phone is, just like you could ban the calculator app for most people, you could ban a voice recorder app for most people, you could probably strip away most features sans social media apps, texting apps, the web browser, GPS, the camera and the phone, slap it in an iPhone case and sell it. That's beside the point. The point is each time it is a lesser product because of it.

And technology moves fast enough that you can pick most things to drop and at some point you will be "right," you could say drop support for all Wifi signals but the latest, one day that will be correct, drop support for all but the latest bluetooth, one day that will be correct, all this shit changes.

In my opinion what Samsung shows, at the bare minimum because I don't know why they are dropping the 3.5mm jack, is that Apple could have held it on longer and pleased more of their customers without it being an engineering issue that prohibited anything and that they didn't, purely for money. That's not brave or good. LG has shown you can still keep the jack, it's a fucking shame they can't do updates competently or even launch a phone right in this country or I would have bought a LG V50, but alas, no unlocked model and the Korean varient didn't have the bands needed.

Smartphones are a weird device because I think the whole market could have turned out differently, right before the switchover we had phones that had weeks of standby time and direct usage many times over what a smartphone had. Had the industry decided to chase different metrics instead of pure power and instead chose a slightly different balance between power and longevity you wouldn't know any different because that would be the world you know. If everyone kept the jack you wouldn't know any better. If Apple had proper file support you wouldn't know any better. Because all of this is somewhat irrelevant and based purely on what companies decide to put out.

Just the tech sector is the only one where people seem to cheer features getting cut. I find that hilarious. That's what makes a person a sheep. I don't know why anyone would ever champion a feature getting cut from anything.
Ok boomer
 

345

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,358
It wasn't a bad move per se but so many websites used that shit back in those days. My friends were glad I owned an Android phone so we could check the menu of restaurants or find out what music was playing in clubs that night while we were out and about. Those websites didn't update themselves and if you only had access to iPhones you were screwed.
Also, Apple wanted people to use the App Store and not go around it. So this was another move that was driven by profits.

yeah and using the open web on mobile safari today is a terrible experience because no restaurants realised that flash menus were dumb, right?

I feel like you are reaching with this argument. iPhones were pretty much the first player to not allow battery swaps but also the last one to waterproof their phones. Citing waterproofing as the reason is pretty disingenuous when it's obvious that they just wanted to profit on battery swaps.
The comment about phone cases making it harder to swap batteries so it's OK to not be able to swapping them at all is also pretty ridiculous.
Removing a case and then swapping a battery is still way easier than sending a phone with a shitty battery in for repairs or driving to a store that could fix it.
Waterproof phones are pretty much the norm now in the high-end part of the market but Apple sure as hell didn't push for it.

i thought the apple conspiracy theory was that they didn't advertise enough that "for profit" battery swaps were even possible.

there is a super obvious reason that no-one makes phones with swappable batteries today.

I'm pretty neutral on this but I wouldn't say Apple made the correct call here. The correct call would be to give people a choice. Apple decided to drop the headphone jack to sell other stuff, not because it made the phones better.

who are you to say that unless you're involved in phone engineering? these are tiny devices where every square millimeter matters. i think it's fair to say that, say, dropping the jack from the 6S to the 7 didn't unlock any great advantage, but that was just preparing people for a world without it. you think you could just add a headphone jack into an iphone 11 today without making compromises that people would notice?

I've been using BT Bose headphones for a while now and I'm not planning on going back but using BT is not allowed on airplanes so I use the cable that came with the headphones. I hope my next set comes with an USB-C adapter once I upgrade my current phone.

using bluetooth is definitely allowed on airplanes.

Don't pretend Apple makes these controversial decisions because they are just so far ahead of the game that people can't comprehend the ingenuity behind it until years later when the market has shifted in that direction.
Apple might not be the market leader when it comes to volume of phones but they are the leader when it comes to profits so it's easy to understand why other manufacturers copy some of their decisions. They don't do it because it makes the products better. They do it to make more money, just like Apple.

this makes no sense. if it's a bad idea, they wouldn't copy it.

as evidenced by...

The S10 line still has a headphone jack.

the note 10 doesn't and the s11 won't. you think this is because samsung thinks it'll make vast profits on galaxy buds sales?
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,611
There were phones with headphone jacks that were waterproof. Not everyone is as bad at engineering as apple :)
Apple is pushing for 4m while others are at 1 or 2m though. Apple's A13 processor are also like 2 or 3 years ahead now while it's scores the best repair rating in ifixit, which is still a 6/10.
The engineering side of things is top notch for Apple products.
 

Deleted member 16908

Oct 27, 2017
9,377
There were phones with headphone jacks that were waterproof. Not everyone is as bad at engineering as apple :)

You're right that there's no reason a phone with a headphone jack can't have a high level of water resistance, but calling Apple bad at engineering is just trying to rile people up.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,249
yeah and using the open web on mobile safari today is a terrible experience because no restaurants realised that flash menus were dumb, right?

I said that dropping it cold turkey back then was an inconvenience because some websites didn't remove that crap until years later.
It's like removing the headphone jack years before Bluetooth became a thing.

i thought the apple conspiracy theory was that they didn't advertise enough that "for profit" battery swaps were even possible.

there is a super obvious reason that no-one makes phones with swappable batteries today.

Well, yeah. Battery tech got better. Batteries have higher capacities and longer life cycles. Doesn't mean it was the correct choice 10+ years ago.
I've never had to swap batteries. Not even back in the days so I have no skin in the game, but coining it as a good move to not have an option back then just seems weird to me.

who are you to say that unless you're involved in phone engineering? these are tiny devices where every square millimeter matters. i think it's fair to say that, say, dropping the jack from the 6S to the 7 didn't unlock any great advantage, but that was just preparing people for a world without it. you think you could just add a headphone jack into an iphone 11 today without making compromises that people would notice?

So they dropped it before it was necessary to prepare people? That's even dumber.

using bluetooth is definitely allowed on airplanes.

It was definitely forbidden for my last flights (short/medium distance). Might be different for long flights.

this makes no sense. if it's a bad idea, they wouldn't copy it.

Not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying it's bad for consumers but good for profits.
 

HarryHengst

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,047
No. Apple is still making bad decisions and removing the headphone jack is still a dumb decision. Bluetooth headphones are still bad and who wants to have yet another thing that needs to be charged?

And another bad thing Apple did is removing the iPhone SE, which was their best phone. Now everything available is in this terrible area of being too big to comfortably use (like you want and need from a phone, because lol like i want to use 2 hands when using a freaking phone) and not big enough to comfortably use (because those phones try to be a tablet but they arent).
 

345

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,358
I said that dropping it cold turkey back then was an inconvenience because some websites didn't remove that crap until years later.
It's like removing the headphone jack years before Bluetooth became a thing.

okay, but if they hadn't dropped it cold turkey then flash would have continued to pollute the web and it would never have been the right time to do so. apple saw where the web was going and they were 100% right to take a stand when they did. the web is better now because of what they did even if you don't use any of their products.

Well, yeah. Battery tech got better. Batteries have higher capacities and longer life cycles. Doesn't mean it was the correct choice 10+ years ago.
I've never had to swap batteries. Not even back in the days so I have no skin in the game, but coining it as a good move to not have an option back then just seems weird to me.

the option did exist: phones not made by apple. the market evidently spoke in apple's favour.

So they dropped it before it was necessary to prepare people? That's even dumber.

i don't think it's dumb to make sure that your customers are used to wireless headphones and have options available a year before introducing a radically new phone design, otherwise the story of that phone design would have been drowned out by "omg no headphone jack"

It was definitely forbidden for my last flights (short/medium distance). Might be different for long flights.

takeoff/landing maybe but generally bluetooth is fine on flights. like, that is the entire reason that wireless noise-cancelling cans like the sony 1000X and bose QC35s are so popular.

Not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying it's bad for consumers but good for profits.

at what point would you consider the headphone jack unimportant enough that the extra space for battery (or whatever) would be more important to consumers? consider that we may well have reached that point already and that's why every single phone company except LG has followed suit.