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many of Apple's controversy decisions for iphone turns out fine in the end

Poimandres

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,871
I hate all 4 of these things, and blame Apple for normalising the removal of what I consider pretty essential features. You can pry my SD slot and headphone jack from my cold, dead hands.

Sent from my 3 year old LG V20 that is still kicking strong thanks to being able to swap out batteries.
 
Poimandres

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,871
BLEEN said:
AND SD cards! ;)
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Yes, a 400gb SD card filled with FLAC files and don't forget an amazing DAC to drive my 10 year old headphones as well. Plus it only cost me a few hundred bucks. Different people have different priorities with phones, I get it, but it kind of blows my mind that people pay so much for flagship phones that lack some pretty bloody useful features.
 
BLEEN

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,890
Poimandres said:
Yes, a 400gb SD card filled with FLAC files and don't forget an amazing DAC to drive my 10 year old headphones as well. Plus it only cost me a few hundred bucks. Different people have different priorities with phones, I get it, but it kind of blows my mind that people pay so much for flagship phones that lack some pretty bloody useful features.
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Holy shit, 400GB. Overkill but, guess what? OPTIONS. Gotta love 'em. Yeah, I'm jelly of that DAC. Friend has that phone, I listen to it from time to time with some good headphones from the '60s. Good stuff!

My next phone I'm gonna make certain has a reasonable DAC (not that mine is a complete PoS). But yeah, I consider myself an audiophile. You should see my @ home setup lol
 
Poimandres

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,871
BLEEN said:
Holy shit, 400GB. Overkill but, guess what? OPTIONS. Gotta love 'em. Yeah, I'm jelly of that DAC. Friend has that phone, I listen to it from time to time with some good headphones from the '60s. Good stuff!

My next phone I'm gonna make certain has a reasonable DAC (not that mine is a complete PoS). But yeah, I consider myself an audiophile. You should see my @ home setup lol
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I've been building a digital music collection for 20 years, so plenty to fill it with. The SD card cost me $50 as well... Couldn't believe they are so cheap these days. Meanwhile Apple are still charging a $100+ difference based on storage size and trying to peddle 32gb iPads. Come on...
 
BLEEN

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,890
Poimandres said:
I've been building a digital music collection for 20 years
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Impressive. I've been building for ~10. 13 if you count a catastrophic HDD failure lol But I've been in a lull lately so my input into that has been pretty low. Maybe a few GB a year now!
And yeah, it's a shame each capacity on phones goes up so much in price. It's not just Apple, to be fair, but they have no shame in it and never have.

Anyway, happy collecting!
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,085
Akinsa said:
You know, as much as I hated the headphone jack removal at the time, seeing the teardown of the latest iPhone really shows just how constrained they are for space.

I mean, it's not like the space used for the headphone jack isn't being used any more - a modern smartphone can't afford empty space - it's just the question of whether the new use of that space is a worthwhile tradeoff.
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Or just make the phone 1mm thicker then you can have larger battery and shorter camera bump...
 
Rodney McKay

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,205
Non-removeable battery is my biggest missed feature from phones, especially because there's basically no phone that does it anymore.

It's especially bad these days because phones are finally to a point where I can see myself holding onto one for more than 2 years without worrying about it running apps well or being obsolete by then.

The battery is pretty much the only ticking clock in phones these days.


I'm also not a fan of Apple removing the fingerprint sensor. I had an XS Max for about 6 months and Face ID was never as error free as a good fingerprint sensor is. I can deal with it in my iPad Pro since I dont unlock that a million times a day, but I've since switched to an S10e for my phone which I'm perfectly happy with.
If/when they add an in-screen fingerprint sensor or put it on the back or side I might consider jumping back to iOS.
 
doomrider7

doomrider7

Member
Feb 21, 2019
676
Seik said:
Yet I never bought one of their products again after they slashed the headphone jack.
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That was a needlessly petty dick move for which the audio community still has not forgiven them for since the best headphones in terms of sheer quality of sound are mostly wired. Even wireless optioned models are better enjoyed wired.
 
behOemoth

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,624
You should mention finger print scanners or more sophisticated face recognition scanners. Also, very long Software supports, NFC payement and cross platform functionalities.
 
Tbm24

Tbm24

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,329
It's not that they were right, it's that people like me exist and opted to stay with iPhone this whole time and keep buying into it. I swapped to an S8 after I was finally done with my iPhone 6 and within the same year sold it and got an iPhone X because I was sick and fucking tired of my texts getting to my friends and SO's out of order among other little quirks. Tried to get my wife to just use whatsapp and it didn't work :(. Either way, went straight to the iPhone X and got airpods with it and haven't looked back.

I miss the headphone jack and the physical button dearly. Made using a cellphone while holding a baby way easier to mange but here we are. Not proud of myself but then again, also don't care that much overall.
 
OP
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Arthands

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
beelulzebub said:
This is fine if all you ever use are Apple products or you have enough disposable income to have multiple sets of headphones, but for the same price as a set of AirPods, I can have wired headphones that sound much better (since that money isn't also paying for components like a BT radio, a battery, and an Apple brand tax) and also work with my SE, my Switch, my DAC at home, etc.

Not to mention that the battery can't be replaced (not even by Apple) in AirPods makes them somewhat ecologically irresponsible IMO.
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There are 3rd party cheap airpod clones.
 
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Arthands

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
^true. iphone isn't the most shipped phones, how can it normalize the whole market?

thats because iphone introduces it, its competitors normalize it to the mainstream.

Turns out nothing happened when companies like Samsung started removing micro sd card and headphone jack. Their flagship phones didnt flopped. The general buyers voted with their wallet.

this is very similar to when Apple dumped floppy disk on the iMac, and other PCs follow suit quickly by dumping it on their PC and laptops in favor for CD rom and USB flash drive. someone has to make the hard decision to be the first to to hard dump and force-obsolete the baggage to move forward.
 
Poimandres

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,871
Arthands said:
this is very similar to when Apple dumped floppy disk on the iMac, and other PCs follow suit quickly by dumping it on their PC and laptops in favor for CD rom and USB flash drive. someone has to make the hard decision to be the first to to hard dump and force-obsolete the baggage to move forward.
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Oh get out of here with this! These aren't "hard decisions" being made to get rid of "baggage". It's blatantly about profit maximisation and pushing their vision for the future. Things are removed without an adequate replacement. CD's were clear advancements over floppy disks. If there's a clear and obvious case for improvement, a direct successor, it doesn't take much to get people on board. Like moving from VHS to DVD. It's clearly an advancement.

It's not like there is some new tech that is only available by removing these features. It's really just taking things away and adding nothing in return.

Apple have a history of being obstinate when it comes to supporting tech that isn't their own. I still have a bunch of Apple losless files I need to convert to FLAC because Apple refused to play ball with a file format that wasn't theirs. They have always been this way. It's fine if you are on board with it, bit don't try and present it like they are pushing the tech world forward out of their pioneering widsom.
 
DeusOcha

DeusOcha

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,591
Osaka, Japan
The headphone jack removal will forever be stupid. And I'm not the type to annually upgrade my phone so I'm still rocking said headphone jack.
 
jelly

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
The headphone jack removal is still complete utter shit. One of the worse things they've ever done.

SD card is very underrated for expanding storage and moving media around easily.

Flash, completely agree.

Battery, I suppose considering smartphone design it's not something you can really argue with much and I've never run into a problem with one, well Apple do replace them but outside of them I don't know.
 
nullref

nullref

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,055
Helping to kill Flash is the only thing on the list that I'd consider unambiguously good. But, I'm a web developer—that's a pretty technical thing I wouldn't expect the average consumer to care much about.

The other three I'd consider defensible product design decisions that involve significant trade-offs, and it's reasonable for some people to dislike them. That they've been accepted by most customers and spread to other company's products doesn't invalidate that—it's more just evidence that they probably predicted the level of customer acceptance correctly.
 
Arex

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,508
Indonesia
Lol this shit again, fuck that anti consumer garbage. You sound like corporate apologist really. Those are fine decision for them, not the consumer. The consumers are left with no choice if they want that product. For example, you don't get to choose between Iphone x with headphone jack or sd card and iphone x without one yes? so how can they vote with their wallet? It's just bs to say the consumer want to have it this way.
 
asmith906

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,401
Apple's removal or ports benefit no one. Had a guy bring his mac in with a file on it I needed to print. I couldn't even copy the file to a flash drive because new mac's only have type c ports. Ended up having to get him to email it to me despite the laptop being a foot away from me.
 
SnakeXs

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
User Banned (1 Day): Trolling and Antagonizing Another User
asmith906 said:
Apple's removal or ports benefit no one. Had a guy bring his mac in with a file on it I needed to print. I couldn't even copy the file to a flash drive because new mac's only have type c ports. Ended up having to get him to email it to me despite the laptop being a foot away from me.
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Boy am I glad designers and engineers at Apple disagree with you.

You were probably upset when they removed floppy drives.
You were likely upset when optical drives went the way of the dodo.
You still mad about headphone jacks, ain't ya?

I for one welcome strides in progress. Sorry for the minor inconveniences along the way, though. The horror of an email, some combo of USB-A and USB-C converters, shared/cloud folders or Airdrop all making moving files so painful and labored! The hoorrrooooor.
 

Lishi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,284
1) It was a necessary thing but they caused pains to everyone

2,3,4 unnecessary, done for money and it sucked for everyone.
 
asmith906

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,401
SnakeXs said:
Boy am I glad designers and engineers at Apple disagree with you.

You were probably upset when they removed floppy drives.
You were likely upset when optical drives went the way of the dodo.
You still mad about headphone jacks, ain't ya?

I for one welcome strides in progress. Sorry for the minor inconveniences along the way, though. The horror of an email, some combo of USB-A and USB-C converters, shared/cloud folders or Airdrop all making moving files so painful and labored! The hoorrrooooor.
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Floppy drives were obsolete. You cant even plug the new iphone into the mac without an adapter.
 
jotun?

jotun?

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,500
I still laugh at my wife when she can't use normal headphones or runs out of storage space on her iphone
 

Deleted member 2761

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,620
Yeah, I suppose it did turn out for the best that I've been saving money on iPhone upgrades ever since the 6.
 
SnakeXs

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
asmith906 said:
Floppy drives were obsolete. You cant even plug the new iphone into the mac without an adapter.
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Like, I was being jovial before but if that's your shot then at least fact check yourself. The 2 Pro models come with USB-C to Lightning cables. Which, y'know, can plug a new iPhone right into those Macs without any adapter.

themoreyouknow
 

Deleted member 2625

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,596
Poimandres said:
Apple have a history of being obstinate when it comes to supporting tech that isn't their own. I still have a bunch of Apple losless files I need to convert to FLAC because Apple refused to play ball with a file format that wasn't theirs. They have always been this way. It's fine if you are on board with it, bit don't try and present it like they are pushing the tech world forward out of their pioneering widsom
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AAC is not Apple's format.

This is a mistake a lot of people make with regard to Apple; it's not that Apple invents proprietary formats, is that they adopt industry standard formats very very quickly.
 
karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,505
Portugal
Arthands said:
^true. iphone isn't the most shipped phones, how can it normalize the whole market?

thats because iphone introduces it, its competitors normalize it to the mainstream.

Turns out nothing happened when companies like Samsung started removing micro sd card and headphone jack. Their flagship phones didnt flopped. The general buyers voted with their wallet.

this is very similar to when Apple dumped floppy disk on the iMac, and other PCs follow suit quickly by dumping it on their PC and laptops in favor for CD rom and USB flash drive. someone has to make the hard decision to be the first to to hard dump and force-obsolete the baggage to move forward.
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i highly disagree with you.
If i want a good Bluetooth headphones i literally have to import it either from the capital or from another country. A good headphone that is wired can be found in almost any sound dedicated store. Also by forcing people onto bluetooth many consumers now have:
  • a new device that needs charging
  • A battery that needs effort to dispose off
  • will have to change headphones once the battery loses capacity (or pay to change the battery)
Adding to all of that is the fact that this change will increase environment damage since:
  • many countries don't use green energy to make eletricity
  • people will throw battery into the common garbage
  • people will probably buy more headphones

Losing the headphone jack and the micro sd card are not "obsolete the baggage to move forward", instead are calculated moves to get more profit. moving from, floppy to cd there is an inherent advantage with very few disadvatanges. For example a game would take half a dozen floppy would now fit in a single CD! bluetooth headphones don't add anything that wired headphones didn't already do (with the exception of wireless)
 
Penny Royal

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
I found the easiest way to get around the headphone jack issue is just have the adapter permanently on the headphones.

not that I ever bother, I've been BT for headphones for about 3 years now, mainly because it's easier when exercising than trailing wires.
 
Poimandres

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,871
Nerfgun said:
AAC is not Apple's format.

This is a mistake a lot of people make with regard to Apple; it's not that Apple invents proprietary formats, is that they adopt industry standard formats very very quickly.
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Wow, I never new that about AAC but I was referring to ALAC as their lossless format. Before iPhones even existed I was looking for alternatives to iPods because of no drag and drop/multi comp support, no support for FLAC and no SD cards. All of this is standard Apple behaviour because they like a closed platform.
 

MontTrain

alt account
Banned
Apr 21, 2019
47
Lol bunch of broke salty people in this thread. Can't hear y'all over my noise cancelling AirPod Pros

edit people obviously didn't get the "joke"

 
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FUME5

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
I hope you get the recognition from Steve Jobbs ghost that you so richly deserve.
 
doomrider7

doomrider7

Member
Feb 21, 2019
676
MontTrain said:
Lol bunch of broke salty people in this thread. Can't hear y'all over my noise cancelling AirPod Pros
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And there it is. That's what it's all about. The status, the classism, the haves shitting and fucking over on the have nots. It's Apple's brand identity. You buy an Apple phone to show the world you're an "upper class cosmopolite". So what if you run out of memory on the 64GB one. Trade it in and get the 128GB. So what if you lose the dongles for headphones. Just fork over the $10 for another and another and another. Battery craps out on you after 2 years? No biggie, just upgrade to the newest model that just came out. It's the same shit with morons who hope for an all digital future for media especially gaming not realizing how fucking terrible that would be for consumers.
 
PaulloDEC

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,423
Australia
3/4 of those are trends that I still lament to this day. The removal of the headphone jack and the lack of support for SD cards are especially heinous.
 
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