Kochikame was also one of the longest running manga for 40 years since 1976, but it finally ended its run. For all those exceptionally long-running manga seres, you just gotta wait a bit longer...
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Manga has been praised for having a consistent writer, but what I like about American comics is seeing different takes on characters and stories
- Thread starter HomokHarcos
- Start date
The DC/Marvel stuff are exceptions too a majority of Western/American comics eventually end.
If those authors have better ideas, I'd rather they made their own series. They'd have complete freedom over their characters and setting, could write an actual beggining and an actual end to the story, etc. A bit like what Moore did with Watchmen, to use an example where the series could have been part of a preexisting universe.
People have said both approaches have their own pros and cons, but I simply can't see the point of the Western one, personally.
Last edited:
Multiple writers wouldn't have fixed stories the were ended for lack of popularity. And comics very much do retired series/teams/characters who have bad runs. It's just that they can be "revived" years later after people have forgotten who they are or why they bombed in the first place
I wished it can be said for manga. Some of the early premises have a lot of potentials, but they sometimes need to tone down a bit of this and that. Or that the legally-gray morality side like vandalism, stealing, or plagiarism, can be explored a bit more in a different targeted demographic, like seinen.
Maybe they could've done something similar to Jojo's Bizarre Adventures, where the protagonists are a part of a huge family, spanning multiple generations.
That would require them to be able to move past certain characters instead of having new ones while the old ones still remain. I'm admittedly not super versed in comics, but I find it funny Magneto's origin is still the same (Holocaust survivor) despite Xmen taking place in the modern day)
I dunno, multiple writers having control over these IPs isn't necessarily a great thing either. Basically it takes the products out of the hands of the original creators in favor of corporate decisions. Which yeah, I know that's how the majority of Western industries work, but it really does suck for the original artists of those work to lose any say-so on where the characters and stories they created go.
That's the one thing about manga there is some integrity about that there. There's some exceptions to this rule, but even the exceptions have some involvement with the original creators in some way.
That's the one thing about manga there is some integrity about that there. There's some exceptions to this rule, but even the exceptions have some involvement with the original creators in some way.
Sometime I hate how comics big stories have to run through every single title. Imagine if the Frieza arc was a comic. Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Ginyu Force, Frieza, and even Dende. Would all have their own series first leading up to the event and then the event itself would have even more titles. All written by different people who may or may not talk to each other.
This is what drove me from American comics in the 90's.
On one hand, as an Xmen loving teen... I read a convoluted story of Cable and Stryfe: Revealed to be sons of Scott and Jean, later revealed Stryfe is a clone of Cable, then Cable is cloned from Stryfe, but no... they're just created by Sinister or something, the story flip flopped depending on the writer...
On the other hand, seeing chapters and thick collected volumes of AKIRA, also published by Marvel, a single writer and long form story telling with Kaneda, the Colonel, Kei, Tetsuo, with beautiful art.
I never went back. I think another reason for the erratic stories was due to the Image revolt happening in realtime. I suppose I can see "rejuvenated characters" as an appeal. I was just reading at the wrong place and wrong time (should have stuck to DC Vertigo stories like Books of Magic).
On one hand, as an Xmen loving teen... I read a convoluted story of Cable and Stryfe: Revealed to be sons of Scott and Jean, later revealed Stryfe is a clone of Cable, then Cable is cloned from Stryfe, but no... they're just created by Sinister or something, the story flip flopped depending on the writer...
On the other hand, seeing chapters and thick collected volumes of AKIRA, also published by Marvel, a single writer and long form story telling with Kaneda, the Colonel, Kei, Tetsuo, with beautiful art.
I never went back. I think another reason for the erratic stories was due to the Image revolt happening in realtime. I suppose I can see "rejuvenated characters" as an appeal. I was just reading at the wrong place and wrong time (should have stuck to DC Vertigo stories like Books of Magic).
And I really can't think of many examples where those get made without the original creator's knowledge/approval. Big-time US super hero comic publishers clearly don't give a damn about that.
One of the things that soured me on American comics was how poorly the supporting casts were treated during writer change offs. If your incredibly lucky the next writer will phase them out before the next next writer forgets them entirely. It's hard to get attached to side characters when you know they're likely going to abruptly disappear really soon.
i feel like it leads to a lot of stagnation due to not being able to rock the boat though, can't ruin shit for the next guy (not that it stops people from trying)
Conan is one of the biggest mass murderers in the history of fiction, if not the biggest. Everywhere he went, people died, and he's been doing it for how many long years now and still keep going.
I agree with most people's takes on comics and mangas.
However, one problem with comics is sometimes the lack of continuity between issues due to wildly different takes on the same character.
I tend to enjoy that personally.
For mangas, I expect continuity and better reactions from characters, which is why when an anime adaptation has different writers and detracts from the manga, all of a sudden, it seems noticeably out-of-character because often times the writer of the manga made every storybit count towards the character development (though not always).
However, one problem with comics is sometimes the lack of continuity between issues due to wildly different takes on the same character.
I tend to enjoy that personally.
For mangas, I expect continuity and better reactions from characters, which is why when an anime adaptation has different writers and detracts from the manga, all of a sudden, it seems noticeably out-of-character because often times the writer of the manga made every storybit count towards the character development (though not always).
This. So. Much. What you read now is just irrelevant next year if they wish so.
I've read back some superheroes comic, and realized their story is a whole lot of garbage and deus ex machina. Having different takes is not inherently a good thing, it's not even the priority.
What matters most is the storyline, plot consistency and conclusion. The best American comics doesn't stand close to the best mangas.
I dunno, have you read Love and Rockets, or Sandman or Chew? Saga? Locke and Key? Y: the Last Man?
There's a bunch of really well done American comics with beginnings, middles and ends, that don't feature superheroes, with consistent creative teams. There's more to American comics than Spider-Man or Batman, and there's amazing works that are definitely worth checking out.
Yeah, and there are a lot of cases where they're written by the original mangaka themselves.
gotta love all the people coming in to remind people there are more to western comics then super heroes and all of them basically being ignored completely
I mean, if you look at the arguments ("a consistent writer" vs. "different takes on characters and stories") and the examples given by the OP, it's a bit hard not to interpret that as "Western super hero comics vs. Japanese comics". So if you want to point out that some Western comics don't have super heroes, keep the same writer throughout, or stuff like that, sure, go ahead, but...?
I've read a lot of them, Lucifer, Fables etc. And no, the creatives are not consistent, in fact very2 few American comics that I can think of have consistent creative teams and even non superheroes stories have lots of inconsistent plotlines. Lucifer & Fables are probably some of the better ones imo, and even then, Fables is stretched thin.
I could probably write a whole essay about their plots. Without pulling legendary titles like Attack on Titan etc, just compare them to mangas current running series, like Spx X Family, Witch Hat Atelier, In-Spectre. Very consistent plotlines that adds up the ante every series, and I'm not even a fan of these girl type manga.
They both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Single creator stories have the advantage that they often have a consistent story that is told well.
Big tent comics with multiple creators have the advantage that a new creative team can think of new ideas the previous team didn't think of.
But it does go both ways.
Single creator stories can be bad, and without outside input can continue to be bad. They also still have to answer to editors sometimes. Such as why the Android/Cell Saga of Dragon Ball has its main antagonist change three times.
They also have the potential problem of the creator not wanting to finish the story. This leads to drawn out story arcs that progress past natural end points, filler story arcs, and a general meandering around the resolution of a story.
Once a story becomes popular you have the marketing dept come in and ask for new merchandise to sell because the story is popular and you are forced to add new outfits and transformations and new characters.
Big tent comics with multiple creators have different problems. You have some one given a book and have bad ideas for how the characters should progress, but they are signed for 12 issues so it just is allowed to happen. Editors can get in the way as well such as with the Spider-Man Clone Saga that was extended well past its original shelf life (marketing department had something to do with that too.)
Then you have the concept of the "toy box" and lazy retcons. A good example is Brian Michael Bendis and his X-Men run. He wanted to play with the Original X-Men team and tell stories about being unhappy with the future they were leading too. At the end he put all the toys back in the box and didn't care about the consequences of his stories. Leaving other creators to clean up after him.
But both concepts could borrow from each other.
A Single creator book could get some outside input.
A big tent book could allow for much longer creator runs.
Neither is better or worse, in general, they are just different.
Single creator stories have the advantage that they often have a consistent story that is told well.
Big tent comics with multiple creators have the advantage that a new creative team can think of new ideas the previous team didn't think of.
But it does go both ways.
Single creator stories can be bad, and without outside input can continue to be bad. They also still have to answer to editors sometimes. Such as why the Android/Cell Saga of Dragon Ball has its main antagonist change three times.
They also have the potential problem of the creator not wanting to finish the story. This leads to drawn out story arcs that progress past natural end points, filler story arcs, and a general meandering around the resolution of a story.
Once a story becomes popular you have the marketing dept come in and ask for new merchandise to sell because the story is popular and you are forced to add new outfits and transformations and new characters.
Big tent comics with multiple creators have different problems. You have some one given a book and have bad ideas for how the characters should progress, but they are signed for 12 issues so it just is allowed to happen. Editors can get in the way as well such as with the Spider-Man Clone Saga that was extended well past its original shelf life (marketing department had something to do with that too.)
Then you have the concept of the "toy box" and lazy retcons. A good example is Brian Michael Bendis and his X-Men run. He wanted to play with the Original X-Men team and tell stories about being unhappy with the future they were leading too. At the end he put all the toys back in the box and didn't care about the consequences of his stories. Leaving other creators to clean up after him.
But both concepts could borrow from each other.
A Single creator book could get some outside input.
A big tent book could allow for much longer creator runs.
Neither is better or worse, in general, they are just different.
Nah...I like when stories has definite end. American comic format is just frustrating and tedious to follow when you take into account the amount to sub stories they produced. Then there's also my personal annoyance where comics can get cancelled due to low sales no matter how good they are.
I prefer the consistency in writing with manga, though I also appreciate comics actually ending their stories. Even if they continue with the character, it's with a different writer and can just be considered a different story.
Luckily we're getting manga nowadays that aren't afraid to end their stories on their terms, and not just keep pumping out shlock just because it's popular (Demon Slayer, Chainsaw Man, 5Toubun).
Luckily we're getting manga nowadays that aren't afraid to end their stories on their terms, and not just keep pumping out shlock just because it's popular (Demon Slayer, Chainsaw Man, 5Toubun).
Yeaaaaah, I feel like this defines a lot of manga also. Unless that was the joke, in which case carry on.
Considering OP seems to be talking about superhero manga and the like, Shounen Jump would be the closest equivalent and well.... many manga get cancelled before ending, are ongoing with no sign of ending or end up getting really drawn out. Have you got any idea how frustrating it is to have followed manga like Hunter x Hunter or Berserk? or how Bleach and Naruto concluded. It will be incredible if One Piece ends on a strong note.
Last edited:
There are so many American comics that are completely made by the same creative group for the enitriety of its run.
This is a superhero comics issue more so than an Anerican comics one. It's really nice seeing all the different takes that writers can have on a superhero but it definitely makes it hard to find starting points to enter superhero comics.
This is a superhero comics issue more so than an Anerican comics one. It's really nice seeing all the different takes that writers can have on a superhero but it definitely makes it hard to find starting points to enter superhero comics.
Some manga continuing longer than they should is definitely an issue. Its funny how you mention Chainsaw Man though since its getting a Part 2 manga lol.
Lol yep.
Last edited:
Moore with Watchmen was because he was told NOT to us those characters by DC.
He then made his own universe with his own characters. He was forced into that, it wasn't an artistic decision.
He did later use other people's characters and put a darker tone to them. It was called " League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"
Then he did it again when he created a history for Rob Liefeld's Extreme Universe with Judgement Day.
For me, the traditional comic style ends up working better simply because I'm not a consistent/dedicated reader.
When I am in the mood to read a comic I find it easier to just pick up a particular run of a series and enjoy it without feeling like I need to continue because the story is "complete enough". For instance, I haven't read a Batman comic in 10 years... but after hearing about the Court of Owls being the big bad in the new Batman game, I picked up that specific run of Batman comics and enjoyed it without feeling like I needed to read anything before or after.
When I am in the mood to read a comic I find it easier to just pick up a particular run of a series and enjoy it without feeling like I need to continue because the story is "complete enough". For instance, I haven't read a Batman comic in 10 years... but after hearing about the Court of Owls being the big bad in the new Batman game, I picked up that specific run of Batman comics and enjoyed it without feeling like I needed to read anything before or after.
Heh, Daredevil is interesting in that the character has been fortunate to have mostly good runs throughout the years. He's the closest classic Marvel character to a straight up crime fiction protagonist other than Punisher, so I figure that has to do with it.
But yeah, it's great seeing different writers takes on different characters. You just can't treat comic characters like manga protagonists. You're not following one character, you're really following one author/creative teams vision of the Marvel (or DC) universe. It's not better or worse it's just a different experience.
But yeah, it's great seeing different writers takes on different characters. You just can't treat comic characters like manga protagonists. You're not following one character, you're really following one author/creative teams vision of the Marvel (or DC) universe. It's not better or worse it's just a different experience.
I dont know. Paradigm shifting runs like Kelly's Deadpool, Simonson's Thor, Cockrum and Claremont's Xmen, Miller's Daredevil and Batman, Morrison's JLA and New Xmen, Hickman's Xmen etc. that really change the style of the character(s) and how they are written seem pretty rare to me.
Even runs like Slott's Superior Spider-man and Waid's Flash(Wally) feels like the usual continuations of existing concepts on the character.
Even runs like Slott's Superior Spider-man and Waid's Flash(Wally) feels like the usual continuations of existing concepts on the character.
JP also do that, though usually it reserved for big series.
Some example
"Pluto" by Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boy) is an adaptation of Tetsuwan Atom story.
Young black jack by Yoshiaki Tabata and Yugo Okuma (Wolf Guy, Akumetsu)
Some example
"Pluto" by Naoki Urasawa (Monster, 20th Century Boy) is an adaptation of Tetsuwan Atom story.
Young black jack by Yoshiaki Tabata and Yugo Okuma (Wolf Guy, Akumetsu)
I dunno...
I find it "American comics is seeing different takes on characters and stories" was a con.
Then again, I'm very rarely read American comics, so I'm not into it that much compared to Mangas.
I find it "American comics is seeing different takes on characters and stories" was a con.
Then again, I'm very rarely read American comics, so I'm not into it that much compared to Mangas.
I don't like mangas much, but i still prefer their approximative consistency. Comics doing whatever the fuck they want with characters on a whim isn't my cup of tea. The fact that characters die on the regular to be always brought back tend to be be utterly ridiculous to me.
I know, I didn't claim it was. But in the end, I do think Watchmen was better for it.
Or Lost Girls. Those are another type of exercise though...
I know, but Part 1 also finished its story and can be considered stand alone if you really wanted. Same for Jojo, so I'm okay with that.
American comics have too many things going on there's never a consistent story it's always flip flopping characters die and return like nothing multiple times. Sometimes there can even be multiple books running at the same time you could jump in and all of a sudden something random will be happening because of an event or something. I also hate when they restart everything and name a book #1 first issue! Of a comic character that has been around for years.
I am very surprised with some restraint that is shown in Japan when a franchise is successful and they will just end it and not capitalize on it more even though it was fairly successful. Also the deadlines Mangakas have is nuts compared to American comics and I feel it is usually better across the board. There is something really unappealing in current American comic art it's like the quality control is not there a lot of stuff just looks bad and rushed except for covers most of those are still great.
I am very surprised with some restraint that is shown in Japan when a franchise is successful and they will just end it and not capitalize on it more even though it was fairly successful. Also the deadlines Mangakas have is nuts compared to American comics and I feel it is usually better across the board. There is something really unappealing in current American comic art it's like the quality control is not there a lot of stuff just looks bad and rushed except for covers most of those are still great.
Yeah this is absolutely my take on Manga. It's easier to just start on chapter 1 and call it a day when you finish the last chapter. There's no confusion on how to digest work.
I'd love to read American comics but I literally have 0 idea where to begin or what the "quintessential" works for various characters are, especially since so many have like, 50+ year existences.
I hope someday I can finally read HxH, Berserk and Guyver ending.
The thing is - in most cases, the author/artist is the copyright owner of the property they created.