are you implying a senator somewhat reflects the ideology of the state he represents?
i'm shocked
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Manchin goes on Fox News and calls them out for lying about the BBB bill
- Thread starter UnpopularBlargh
- Start date
i'm shocked
Right, that's the actual issue. He is a Senator from West Virginia.
I'm saying that the man who wants to keep his job is taking money from special interests that don't actually align with his personal beliefs or party interests because *drum roll* he's a scumbag establishment politician. And trying to soften that by saying "well acshually he votes with Dems 90% of the time" is bullshit.
The only forward is around him, no matter what actually happens here.
They're giving his real bosses a pipeline to get him to go along with this.
What is this? Proving a stereotype? You are doing the exact thing I made fun of in my comment.
Let me be clear. Manchin does not: need money to run his reelection campaign, because Democrats have a shit-ton of money. Machin also is not: basing his votes on who gives him money, because if that were the case, then Democrats would simply give him more money, because, to reiterate, and to say so again, they have a shit-ton of it.
You're missing the most simplistic explanation for Manchin's behavior: mostly a combination of representing West Virginia and his sincerely held beliefs.
Also, bluntly - most political fundraising these days is actually through individual donors, as we've all seen through the emails that go to our spam filters.
The reality is, Joe Manchin could get a lot more money from individual donors, in theory. Amy McGrath got umpteen zillion dollars. So is Mark Kelly and Fetterman right now.
Joe Manchin's views, unfortunately, are closer to the median American than basically anybody on this forum, and is to the left of a majority of West Virginian voters, if not a supermajority. That Child Tax Credit we all loved? A majority of voters didn't want it to be permanent, and the more it was means tested, the more popular it got.
Again, rich people don't give money to people to change their views. They give money to people who already agree with them. Exxon gives money to some Republican car dealer who already thinks climate change isn't real to run ads on gods, guns, and Jesus.
People vastly overestimate corruption and underestimate people having terrible opinions.
The reality is, Joe Manchin could get a lot more money from individual donors, in theory. Amy McGrath got umpteen zillion dollars. So is Mark Kelly and Fetterman right now.
Joe Manchin's views, unfortunately, are closer to the median American than basically anybody on this forum, and is to the left of a majority of West Virginian voters, if not a supermajority. That Child Tax Credit we all loved? A majority of voters didn't want it to be permanent, and the more it was means tested, the more popular it got.
Again, rich people don't give money to people to change their views. They give money to people who already agree with them. Exxon gives money to some Republican car dealer who already thinks climate change isn't real to run ads on gods, guns, and Jesus.
People vastly overestimate corruption and underestimate people having terrible opinions.
It's, I think, often (understandably) hard for people to believe that other's sincerely held beliefs can be honestly different from one's own sincerely held beliefs.
They they either assume those differences are not sincere (they are corrupted by some other factor), or the other person must just be, at their core, either evil or insane.
Manchin is basically irredeemable, BUT I'll gladly accept it when anyone throws Fox News's shit back at them.
It's not hard to think that West Virginians are either insane or propagandized when they're against the child tax credit. West Virginia is the third poorest state in the country. You'd think they'd accept ANYTHING. But, that rugged individualist mindset persists.
There is an or in that statement and I would bet that the television time that Fox News gets in WV is very high. Propagandized is probably extremely accurate.
West Virginia is Bootstrap country and coal both built the towns they lived in and put food on their tables when they were growing up. You don't have to do much to keep people believing what they already believe.
I've just never seen him push back on Fox like this on something big and divisive
They are rarely this pissed at him, and he is not a guy that wilts at a fight.
He was visited by the three ghosts of Christmas one night, that's the only explanation.
Or maybe some on ERA need to admit that they're utterly ignorant and alarmist when it comes to US politics.
No, he has always supported pretty much every element of the bill. That includes the fossil fuel expansion, but it's certainly not the only reason he's voting for it.
Do you believe he would support this bill without fossil fuel expansion? I don't. Sorry.
No, but I also don't believe he would support it without the deficit reduction or the ACA subsidies or some of the climate funding or the carried interest tax or the corporate minimum tax either.
I think the bill could be called the "What Joe Manchin Thinks American Needs Right Now Bill," because that's basically what it is. All the things he has always said he supports and thinks are good public policy. I don't think any of it is being forced down his throat.
You know how most of you hate Joe Manchin? Well the things you hate about him, he's doing to the other side right now lol.
Anyway, I think too many people get their political opinions from social media because it's easier to listen to someone with a strong opinion than really understand how the American political process works. It'd be great if Joe Manchin did things a little differently, but I think he's doing the best he can to get re-elected in a state that's like Trump +50 or whatever. He's probably also serving his self-interests too, but that's literally every politician, including your favorite ones.
Anyway, I think too many people get their political opinions from social media because it's easier to listen to someone with a strong opinion than really understand how the American political process works. It'd be great if Joe Manchin did things a little differently, but I think he's doing the best he can to get re-elected in a state that's like Trump +50 or whatever. He's probably also serving his self-interests too, but that's literally every politician, including your favorite ones.
He's on record as supporting it in theory.
I think if Democrats asked him to write a bill for a public option, he would come back with…something that would fit that description that he would vote for but for various reasons it wouldn't be workable for the rest of the party, due to how it's funded, its limitations, its reach, etc.
So…yes and no. Effectively no.
And that's a problem for Biden because that was on Biden's 2020 platform. Though who knows if we'll ever hear of the words "public option" until 2024.
Yeah, too many Democrats everywhere, but especially here, don't seem to understand that:
1) There's literally no one better that would get elected in his state.
2) He does a lot of things, for better or worse, to ensure he gets elected in his state, and other Democrats help him do these things. In order to get elected as a Democrat in such a Republican leading state he literally has to do some WWE wrestler shit as a heel and make "heat" from the Democrats so he can go to the Republicans in his state and talk about how everyone on the left hates him so he can get votes.
You can hate it all you want but the alternative is someone who votes 90.4% of the time w/ the Democrats gets replaced with a Trump cultist who votes 0% of the time with the Democrats.
"My father served" what a fucking stupid thing to say, and disgusting too, using your own father's military service as a pawn for an argument shows she doesn't respect it at all
Too many people lack nuance. Manchin isn't even close to perfect, and he's hardly a progressive, but he IS principled and has some integrity, and he fights for what he believes in (most of which aligns with the general Democratic party). Why hate him and call him irredeemable just because he doesn't vote with the Democrats every single time? He's far better than another Republican WV senator would be.
He's gonna go right back to being a human wall after this bill and people are praising him. Sad.
Thank you. He doesn't vote against them more often because he stops so many things from even making it the floor in the first place.
(That said, this video rules and Sinema better not f--- it up over carried interest)
Or they watch Fox because it represents what they believe. People just now might feel more comfortable to be "terrible" publicly because it's easy to find people who have the same extreme views.
I'll add to the repetition: The alternative to Manchin is a Republican holding that seat.
He votes with Biden 90% of the time!
Does Your Member Of Congress Vote With Or Against Biden?
An updating tally of how often every member of the House and the Senate votes with or against the president.projects.fivethirtyeight.com
Yup.
Having him and any individual Democrat in a competitive seat is why there's even a chance of us talking about this climate and health care bill. I want to make it so we don't have to rely on him; I don't want him gone because Democrats won't get that seat back.
I mean yes and as nice as getting this passed will be, we need to remember that he and Sinema both are against things like minimum wage increase, but most importantly ending the filibuster, which would help Dems pass fair election laws. He knows the Republicans have stacked the courts and potentially now have control over the way this country will be going for the next decade or two, nevermind how fascist they have openly become, but he doesn't care.
But yes, it is what it is, he is from WV. I still hate him, even if for the moment he is doing a good thing. Give it another month I promise he'll give you a reason to hate him again.
Anyway, I needed this laugh
View: https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1554636024965259264
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