Nice.
Really shows that affine texture mapping needs highly tessellated objects to work decently.
I fucking loooooooooooooooove the way that shit looks. That's some undermined nostalgia. Put it in my veins.
It's unbelievably obvious in the original Tenchu, but all this video does is make me want another Tenchu.
Just curious, what are the 2 games on 3DO that run at 60 fps? I don't really have any history with that system.Atari Jaguar, 3DO, Philips CD-i and the like are all much worse in this regard.
What I'm saying, though, is that there are loads of gorgeous 2D games on PlayStation - some of the best pixel art ever created exists on that platform. It's gorgeous.
There's plenty of great looking 3D games too, though - fighting games, shmups and the like all hold up really well and tend to run at 60fps.
You look back at the 3DO or something and the average frame-rate is like 12fps and there are literally two games that run at 60 on that machine. I love 3DO but it's aged much worse.
The issues with PS1 tend to become evident when you have a 3D camera that moves in close proximity to a surface. If the camera is close to a surface, the affine warping becomes super apparent and it looks awful.
The 3DO is also not great at FMV playback, with relatively low-quality video compared to later consoles, or the CD-i before it -- compare 3DO vs. CD-i Dragon's Lair, it's not even close. There are things to like about the 3DO to be sure though, visually, Star Fighter looks great...
Just curious, what are the 2 games on 3DO that run at 60 fps? I don't really have any history with that system.
It looked fine on old small CRT but yeah, nowaday it's just awful.
PS1 is probably the console that aged the worse.
Atari Jaguar, 3DO, Philips CD-i and the like are all much worse in this regard.
What I'm saying, though, is that there are loads of gorgeous 2D games on PlayStation - some of the best pixel art ever created exists on that platform. It's gorgeous.
There's plenty of great looking 3D games too, though - fighting games, shmups and the like all hold up really well and tend to run at 60fps.
You look back at the 3DO or something and the average frame-rate is like 12fps and there are literally two games that run at 60 on that machine. I love 3DO but it's aged much worse.
The issues with PS1 tend to become evident when you have a 3D camera that moves in close proximity to a surface. If the camera is close to a surface, the affine warping becomes super apparent and it looks awful.
As I've been saying, there are hundreds of 2D games on PS1 that hold up beautifully!In my honest opinion, the industry adopted polygons a generation too early.
Most PS1 games simply have not aged well... and I say this as an avid retro gamer (who has no trouble "going back in time" for each game I play).
As I've been saying, there are hundreds of 2D games on PS1 that hold up beautifully!
That was only in the US and only for a few years (launch window mostly).In hindsight, it just brings to mind how baffling it is that a mandated and enforced "No 2D policy" was implemented on the PlayStation (for a quite a while)
What's more, the European team wanted as many games as possible on the format.
And, despite objections from the US, made it easy for developers to build and release games for the system. "We simplified the approval process to a one-step system," says Chris Deering, the first European president of PlayStation.
"We had disagreements with the US. They thought we were too loose, they thought we should be more guarded with our approval process. But the Japanese were more on our side about this one. They were saying: 'Why not let the consumer decide what games to buy?'"
That is a thing about the 32X, its list of games which are actually only available on 32X is very short. Shadow Squadron is awesome, but there are very few other games on the platform you can't play at all anywhere else. The Jag, however, has a lot of exclusives. They're often incredibly rushed and unfinished feeling, but you can't play them elsewhere!Yeah, not only does the Jaguar not have quite the level of power the PS1 does, since it's basically just a marginally beefier 32X, it also does everything in software (like, again, the 32X) so it's effectively impossible to correct its issues in emulation the way that you can PS1 texture mapping.
(Of course the corollary here might be that the 32X aged worse than the Jaguar, but at least the 32X got some pretty good games even if the vast majority of them have since received superior re-releases on newer hardware. We've got ports of Virtua Racing, but what can be said of Checkered Flag?? or, god help us all, club drive)
This is a quite subjective thing, but for me it depends on both the game and the framerate. N64 framerates I can handle, most of the time, but once you get into the barely or sub double digit framerates of the Super FX, that S3 ViRGE card our first PC with a 3d card in it came with, or as I say above games like Checkered Flag, yeah, it's too low for me to enjoy. Club Drive manages to just barely sty at a playable framerate though, and I-War or the FPSes (I don't have JagDoom or AvP yet, but it's clear they runs fine from videos) are better than that. Or Iron Soldier, sure that game has a low framerate, but they compensate by making the game a slow-paced mech game so it works.Again, though, I was looking at consoles as a whole not specific features.
The issue with Jag and 3DO is that most games run at abysmal frame-rates - often single digits. The flat shaded Jag stuff is not bad looking, I agree, but when it runs at 5 fps, does it matter? No. It's not playable.
Sure, agreed.The thing is - all of these machines have some games that look and play great. I would never say an entire machine has 'aged horribly' - I'm just considering the number of titles that hold up. There's a *LOT* on PS1 that remain beautiful to this day - but they're mostly 2D games or distant 3D games running at 60fps.
Sure. The PS1 and Saturn are both certainly quite accomplished at 2d, much more so than the 3DO. I haven't gotten Jag Rayman yet because of how expensive it is and how I don't exactly love Rayman 1 (due to how crushingly hard it is), but hearing about things like how Jag Rayman doesn't have the sometimes super-frustrating slipping-physics system kind of sounds like a positive... heh.The Jag handles 2D MUCH better than 3DO, I agree, but it has very few 2D games in general and only some of them run well. Also, in the case of Rayman, it's missing a ton of parallax scrolling that is present on PS1, Saturn and PC.
Well, if you mean "playable" as in "playable non-FMV games" then you're probably mostly right, but that is a caveat worth mentioning. I think that dismissing the FMV or nongame informational / image discs is a mistake though, the CD-i is VERY good at those kinds of games, again dramatically better than any console for quite a few years. I am not an FMV game fan though, so I don't exactly love the CD-i, but I don't regret getting one either... it's an interesting thing for sure. But as for those games, a few games show that it was possible to get games running decently well -- Lucky Luke is a nice looking platformer for example, which uses the digital video card for something other than video. The game is zoomed in way too much which makes gameplay tough, but visually it's good. The Apprentice is nice looking too, and plays alright. (I got both Zelda sidescrollers and mostly have enjoyed them, too... the graphics are alright, with nice backgrounds and sprite art, and gameplay can be fun, if grindey.) I remember you playing Micro Machines in that CD-i video of yours, but I skipped that one and got the one that runs well instead -- Accelerator. It's a very late release with issues, but does show that it is at least possible to run a scrolling racing game on that system at an acceptable framerate, even if only one game managed it.I only mention CD-i in that there are very few playable games on the system and most attempts at non-FMV games run very VERY slowly.
You're right. That is disappointing, the 3DO would have been better off if they had supported the VCD card to give it much better video playback. That's why I have not bought a VCD card for my 3DO, while I do have one for the Saturn, and I got a CD-i with the DVC built in.Should be said there's probably no reason the 3DO version couldn't have looked as good as the CD-i if it had utilized the optional MPEG-1 video card. But no 3DO game ever did and the add-on wasn't used for anything except Video CD playback, unlike the CD-i equivalent.
I love this shit. Sure, some of it is nostalgia but I loved the effect. RE spiders were enhanced by it.
Hmm, well...I think it's subjective to a point. N64 frame-rates are low but I think MOST games remain quite playable. The issue with 3DO and Jag is that many of its games dip into the single digits which I feel is a bridge too far. S3 Virge is a good comparison - I captured from one of those in my Shadows of the Empire video recently.This is a quite subjective thing, but for me it depends on both the game and the framerate. N64 framerates I can handle, most of the time, but once you get into the barely or sub double digit framerates of the Super FX, that S3 ViRGE card our first PC with a 3d card in it came with, or as I say above games like Checkered Flag, yeah, it's too low for me to enjoy. Club Drive manages to just barely sty at a playable framerate though, and I-War or the FPSes (I don't have JagDoom or AvP yet, but it's clear they runs fine from videos) are better than that. Or Iron Soldier, sure taht game has a low framerate, but they compensate by making the game a slow-paced mech game so it works.
The Jag has too many hardware problems for me to say it's even better than the 3DO for sure overall due to all of the design flaws in the thing, but games that push it well show that it definitely has a higher ceiling than 3DO, I think... which makes sense, it does have what twice the CPU speed?
Yep, I have Super Burnout as well and it looks and plays like a dream. One of the best and smoothest games on Jag. Atari Karts also runs great. There's definitely games that hold up on the Jag.Sure. The PS1 and Saturn are both certainly quite accomplished at 2d, much more so than the 3DO. I haven't gotten Jag Rayman yet because of how expensive it is and how I don't exactly love Rayman 1 (due to how crushingly hard it is), but hearing about things like how Jag Rayman doesn't have the sometimes super-frustrating slipping-physics system kind of sounds like a positive... heh.
Super Burnout shows off what the Jag can do pretty well too -- that is a very impressive Super Scaler-style game.
As someone that spent way too much time playing CD-i last year, and yeah, I agree that its video capabilities were amazing. It's a neat relic of a very different time.Well, if you mean "playable" as in "playable non-FMV games" then you're probably mostly right, but that is a caveat worth mentioning. I think that dismissing the FMV or nongame informational / image discs is a mistake though, the CD-i is VERY good at those kinds of games, again dramatically better than any console for quite a few years. I am not an FMV game fan though, so I don't exactly love the CD-i, but I don't regret getting one either... it's an interesting thing for sure. But as for those games, a few games show that it was possible to get games running decently well -- Lucky Luke is a nice looking platformer for example, which uses the digital video card for something other than video. The game is zoomed in way too much which makes gameplay tough, but visually it's good. The Apprentice is nice looking too, and plays alright. (I got both Zelda sidescrollers and mostly have enjoyed them, too... the graphics are alright, with nice backgrounds and sprite art, and gameplay can be fun, if grindey.) I remember you playing Micro Machines in that CD-i video of yours, but I skipped that one and got the one that runs well instead -- Accelerator. It's a very late release with issues, but does show that it is at least possible to run a scrolling racing game on that system at an acceptable framerate, even if only one game managed it.
I think Skyhammer is a good example of what could be done with the Jaguar:
Yeah, that SotE video gave me some bad memories of trying to play 3d games on that poor thing... for example I have a strong memory of playing the Wipeout XL demo on that card, or trying to; framerates were at best in the mid single digits. The ViRGE was the world's first 3D decelerator indeed. When I got a 3DFX card some time later it was really incredible.Hmm, well...I think it's subjective to a point. N64 frame-rates are low but I think MOST games remain quite playable. The issue with 3DO and Jag is that many of its games dip into the single digits which I feel is a bridge too far. S3 Virge is a good comparison - I captured from one of those in my Shadows of the Empire video recently.
Well, the N64 did release like two and a half years after the 3DO and Jaguar, which puts it as close to the Dreamcast as the 3DO. So I would expect better performance, and you get it. I agree, most N64 games are totally playable. As for low-framerate N64 games, for me it depends on the game -- I found Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness totally playable in High-Res mode and indeed played through the whole game that way, and Aidyn Chronicles is slow paced enough to also be fine in Hi-Res despite the low framerate... but that is not the case for Turok 2, I can't play that in high res due to the low framerate, it's a much bigger problem in a FPS. I also never use high res mode in Excitebike 64 partially because it looks amazing enough in regular resolution, but also because the framerate hit and letterboxing in hi-res mode are distracting. It does not run smoothly like it does in regular resolution and that makes the game harder to play.I'm not suggesting that every game on those systems runs poorly, rather, that it's a common occurrence. I don't like thinking of systems as aging poorly, though, and only mentioned this in response to the topic. That's not really my way of looking at this.
Club Drive is interesting as, if you drive near an object, the frame-rate can drop to roughly 1-2 fps.
JagDoom is great but capped at 20fps and often drops below. AvP is pretty choppy in the 10-15fps range. Playable but not smooth.
The thing is - people complain about Perfect Dark on N64, which is one of the slowest games on the system, but Perfect Dark still runs smoother than your average 3DO or Jag game by a wide margin too.
And that's what frustrates me about Jaguatr homebrew, almost all of it are just Atari ST games which do nothing to use the Jag's power... but given how much of a mess the thing is design-wise I can undersnd why homebrew devs stay away from 3d and such, it'd be really hard to do. So, ST or Amiga-tier visuals on something capable of more it is. Oh well. (Some of those ports are cool anyway, I have Jeff Minter Classics and it's one of my most played Jaguar games...)Yep, I have Super Burnout as well and it looks and plays like a dream. One of the best and smoothest games on Jag. Atari Karts also runs great. There's definitely games that hold up on the Jag.
Rayman 1 is such a crushingly hard game, I've never gotten past Band Land; that's where I quit on that ultra-hard game when I bought it back in the late '90s. The graphics are great but it's way too hard for its own good. I haven't really gone back in a long time and maybe I should, but maybe I should wait until I get the apparently slightly easier Jag version...Rayman Jag is a very recent pick-up as I got a good price on it. I'm a HUGE fan of the original, though, so I never had issues playing it. The Jag version is really neat as it's very different from the others in many ways. It's a much easier game which may appeal. It's a great version, no doubt, for that reason alone. It just has technical limitations such as reduced parallax and, honestly, a poor soundtrack.
The Apprentice is definitely a good game, but I honestly do also find the CD-i Zelda sidescrollers good. They aren't great, but are nowhere near as terrible as people say. Visually though, as I said the graphics are nice with fully painted backgrounds in each area, but each area is only a few screens long so areas are limited in size. Also the complaint about how it can be hard to see what is a platform and what isn't is accurate. Also it's very cool to have a Zelda game where you can actually play as Zelda!As someone that spent way too much time playing CD-i last year, and yeah, I agree that its video capabilities were amazing. It's a neat relic of a very different time.
The non-FMV games, though, tend to be rather poor technically. Lucky Luke looks fine, right? But it runs at 20fps - which is abysmal for a 2D platformer. It's not unplayable, mind you, but it's a bad look for a system that was sold for so much (not that it was focused entirely on gaming, of course).
The Apprentice is THE best looking and playing game on CD-i by a landslide. I can agree with that.
CD-i is a fascinating machine, though.
I don't have Skyhammer but will get it eventually, it's high on my list of Jag games I want. But going by videos, it's very impressive that it manages to run a textured 3d world on the Jag, but it's so pixelated, and the draw distance is horrible! It's really impressive for the platform but I kind of like the flat-shaded look of a Cybermorph or I-War better... and also, as good as Skyhammer looks for textured 3d, does it match up to Blade Force on 3DO?Yes, I recently picked up a boxed copy of this. It's a neat game that looks really impressive for the system. It's also rather confusing and not great to play but I can appreciate what they were trying to do!
Thank God they dropped "squiggle vision" after the first season of Home Movies, that shit makes it hard to rewatch. Just awful."Can you remember when did you first started having these thoughts about warping textures?"
Yeah, makes you wonder what PS1 games could have looked like if they didn't have to waste so many polygons in comparison to the N64.Nice.
Really shows that affine texture mapping needs highly tessellated objects to work decently.
Wrong. N64 aged far worse. Blurry as fuck is worse than the texture warping.It looked fine on old small CRT but yeah, nowaday it's just awful.
PS1 is probably the console that aged the worse.
Indeed.Yeah, makes you wonder what PS1 games could have looked like if they didn't have to waste so many polygons in comparison to the N64.
Thank God they didn't put these on the RE2 Remake. Big, hairy, slimy HD Spiders is the worst.man where were these in the 2019 remake? and the crows and moths.
Yup. For me, playing N64 back then feels like playing a videogames without putting my glasses on.Wrong. N64 aged far worse. Blurry as fuck is worse than the texture warping.
Couldn't agree more. I never even owned a PS1 and I get a nostalgia hard on for it. Although played it a lot at friend's places at the time.I fucking loooooooooooooooove the way that shit looks. That's some undermined nostalgia. Put it in my veins.
In Perfect Dark . I certainly remember the hi res option tanking the framerate big time. I could always see the difference when I went from mine to my friend's houseHmm, well...I think it's subjective to a point. N64 frame-rates are low but I think MOST games remain quite playable. The issue with 3DO and Jag is that many of its games dip into the single digits which I feel is a bridge too far. S3 Virge is a good comparison - I captured from one of those in my Shadows of the Empire video recently.
I'm not suggesting that every game on those systems runs poorly, rather, that it's a common occurrence. I don't like thinking of systems as aging poorly, though, and only mentioned this in response to the topic. That's not really my way of looking at this.
Club Drive is interesting as, if you drive near an object, the frame-rate can drop to roughly 1-2 fps.
JagDoom is great but capped at 20fps and often drops below. AvP is pretty choppy in the 10-15fps range. Playable but not smooth.
The thing is - people complain about Perfect Dark on N64, which is one of the slowest games on the system, but Perfect Dark still runs smoother than your average 3DO or Jag game by a wide margin too.
Yep, I have Super Burnout as well and it looks and plays like a dream. One of the best and smoothest games on Jag. Atari Karts also runs great. There's definitely games that hold up on the Jag.
Rayman Jag is a very recent pick-up as I got a good price on it. I'm a HUGE fan of the original, though, so I never had issues playing it. The Jag version is really neat as it's very different from the others in many ways. It's a much easier game which may appeal. It's a great version, no doubt, for that reason alone. It just has technical limitations such as reduced parallax and, honestly, a poor soundtrack.
As someone that spent way too much time playing CD-i last year, and yeah, I agree that its video capabilities were amazing. It's a neat relic of a very different time.
The non-FMV games, though, tend to be rather poor technically. Lucky Luke looks fine, right? But it runs at 20fps - which is abysmal for a 2D platformer. It's not unplayable, mind you, but it's a bad look for a system that was sold for so much (not that it was focused entirely on gaming, of course).
The Apprentice is THE best looking and playing game on CD-i by a landslide. I can agree with that.
CD-i is a fascinating machine, though.
Yes, I recently picked up a boxed copy of this. It's a neat game that looks really impressive for the system. It's also rather confusing and not great to play but I can appreciate what they were trying to do!
Doesn't just a res increase on an n64 emulator fix the blurring?The blurring can be fixed even on real hardware in some titles with patches or codes or hardware.
It never looks quite right to me. The games are designed for 320x240 with the unique AA of N64. If you disable the blur rather than AA, games look sharp and clean on real hardware.Doesn't just a res increase on an n64 emulator fix the blurring?
I'm not really bothered by it. But it varies from game to game. I prefer this to the blurry N64 games.