Even in American terms this is a pretty bad fuckup. SWATting has been a thing for years now in the states and this is the first time somebody has been shot, because most of the times American police are able to assess the situation and not shoot up the first person shaped target that silhouettes themselves in a window or doorway.Clearly the criminal would OPEN THE DOOR if someone just knocked, and not send a hostage to do so.
But thats what America gets when it allows trigger happy cops to run wild. There is little to no training and more importantly, absolutely no accountability. The cop probably just wanted a paid vacation\promotion.
In what situation do you open fire after knocking on a door? Its almost as if you wanted to shoot whoever opened the door.
edit:
bad info.
How to train someone like that, I don't know. Personally, I can't support someone when they kill someone because they "reached for their waistline". I can't. When I see someone do that, yes, of course it raises my alert level. However, if I don't see a weapon, then I don't see a threat that warrants me pulling the trigger. That's my personal stance on it. I wasn't trained to feel that way, and I wasn't trained to think that someone reaching for something means you can shoot them. That's just who I am.I don't know how training can make a difference when every time one of these police killings take place, the rationale and response is always the same: they feared for their life. Oftentimes they are wrong about that and it does not matter a wit in the end. They walk away free and the town or the state pays out millions in taxpayer dollars to settle the wrongful death suit.
How do you train someone to not feel an instinctual fear?
my understanding is that good cops may exist temporarilyThere are no good cops. They may be good people outside the uniform, but as soon as they put one on, they're the moral equivalent of Stormtroopers.
They don't work for the people. They've never worked for the people.
It isn't a gut reaction to a bad story. The police are never a force of good. If they ever help a normal person, it's by mistake or in the interests of their masters and in their role as protectors of private property.Thanks for sharing, and thanks for your service.
That "every police officer [is] aware of" this standard goes against what F34R just stated. Here's where I think we're getting our wires crossed: Yes, to save someone from danger you have to put yourself in danger. What that doesn't mean is that you have to prioritize their life over yours in an absolute sense. In other words, if they have a 100% chance of dying if you don't get involved and a 0% chance of dying if you do get involved, and you have a 0% chance of dying if you don't get involved and a 100% chance of dying if you do get involved (e.g. jumping in front of a moving train to push them out of the way), then you don't have to do that. What generally happens is they have a, say, 20% chance of dying if you don't get involved, and a 2% chance of dying if you do, and so to save their 18% chance of living, you put yourself at a 3% risk of dying.
So yes, you put yourself in danger, but you're probably going to be fine (most cops don't die on the job), and you'll be able to help them significantly.
The problem is the accumulation of risk over time. 0.01% chance of dying today, 0.01% chance of dying tomorrow, 0.01% chance of dying the next day... that risk accumulates--not at a linear rate, but at an exponential rate--which, in the aggregate, leads to it being a high-risk job. Cops are keenly aware of this as they see other cops killed or injured, and think, "Man, I'm not going to let that happen to me."
That's getting a little tangential, though. My point is, yes, cops put themselves at risk, and that is part of the job, but no, that doesn't necessitate a conclusion that they value the lives of those they are assigned to protect more than their own, any more than a security guard is putting more value on the bank's money than on his own life. He's accepting a risk that he doesn't think will ever come to fruition, and if that risk becomes too high, he can protect himself over the bank's vault.
Good to know, thanks. I think this is interesting, because it highlights how a different base standard of normal behavior (carrying AK47's everywhere) applies to what standard an officer or soldier is held to when determining the situation. There couldn't be the standard of shooting anyone armed, because that would mean you're shooting everyone. Now, here in America where it's legal to hold firearms, the situation is somewhat analogous, but the standard appears to be different than your RoE were in 2007. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Your mindset is dangerous and is leading to a worse society. Please, for the sake of everyone, reexamine how you view the people that enforce the laws that protect people, even though they're not always successful in doing so. Go watch The Purge, or just think about it for more than your gut reaction to bad stories.
There are no good cops. They may be good people outside the uniform, but as soon as they put one on, they're the moral equivalent of Stormtroopers.
They don't work for the people. They've never worked for the people.
Now this is just ridiculous.It isn't a gut reaction to a bad story. The police are never a force of good. If they ever help a normal person, it's by mistake or in the interests of their masters and in their role as protectors of private property.
Naturally I feel bad for the victim. I also want to point out that the police officer is a victim also, imagine the guilt you would have for the rest of your life if you were tricked into killing someone.
EDIT: Woops, never mind. I read past the first post. WTF at that officer.
So you think when F34R pushed those kids out of the way of a moving car and took the hit himself, he wasn't a force for good?:It isn't a gut reaction to a bad story. The police are never a force of good. If they ever help a normal person, it's by mistake or in the interests of their masters and in their role as protectors of private property.
Talking to kids on the side of the road that were reported as run-a-ways. Here comes that blink of an eye. A car veers in the lane while coming towards us. Instead of getting out of the way, I jumped towards the kid, pushed him out of the way, and took the hit myself. I almost died that night, and thanks to a great medial team, I lived. Why did I do that? Not because that kids life was more valuable than mine, but because his life is just as valuable as mine.
Dude c'mon. Cops direct traffic during power outages and when there are wrecks, and they ummm... do a lot of stuff like that. Useful stuff. Filling a state's coffers for minor or non existent violations and killing or arresting people unjustly may be their modus operandi, but make no mistake they are needed.There are no good cops. They may be good people outside the uniform, but as soon as they put one on, they're the moral equivalent of Stormtroopers.
They don't work for the people. They've never worked for the people.
It isn't a gut reaction to a bad story. The police are never a force of good. If they ever help a normal person, it's by mistake or in the interests of their masters and in their role as protectors of private property.
No. The police and their actions are disgusting.That is a nice way to disrespect everyone on this forum who is or who knows family/friends that are officers. Your post is disgusting.
It isn't a gut reaction to a bad story. The police are never a force of good. If they ever help a normal person, it's by mistake or in the interests of their masters and in their role as protectors of private property.
Apparently KeemStar interviews the person who did the swatting. Sorry if it's been posted.
He says it's a way to get him to confess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCHOI39nJPM (DramaAlert channel)
Apparently KeemStar interviews the person who did the swatting. Sorry if it's been posted.
He says it's a way to get him to confess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCHOI39nJPM (DramaAlert channel)
Confess what? Didn't he already tweet that he called the SWAT team, just insisted that he wasn't responsible because he wasn't the one who actually pulled the trigger?
Ignoring multiple verbals commands by law enforcement in a very tense situation is disgusting.They were 28 and still arguing over a video game and threatening to swat each other? Jesus christ. And then this is the outcome. It's sad.
No. The police and their actions are disgusting.
Panic is a real thing. Especially when people know cops kill people for no reason. When confronted people aren't always able to react as quickly as people want. I know I panic in bad situations and can't really cooperate with people.Ignoring multiple verbals commands by law enforcement in a very tense situation is disgusting.
Don't.Ignoring multiple verbals commands by law enforcement in a very tense situation is disgusting.
It isn't a gut reaction to a bad story. The police are never a force of good. If they ever help a normal person, it's by mistake or in the interests of their masters and in their role as protectors of private property.
Definitely a large anarchist crowd in here. I don't deny there are several bad apples out of the thousands of law enforcement officers, but to say all cops are out murdering people is merely beating a dead horse of a failed ideology.Rainbow Six Siege ProGamer KingGeorge got swatted a couple days ago live on stream
They suddenly stood in his room,he explained to them what probably happened(swatting),explained to them what he does and how twitch works and they left.
The hate on cops is so laughable and sad at the same time.
ALL cops are bad probably comes from some guys who got their weed confiscated at one point
The person that was killed was a bystander, not someone participating. Why are you shrugging this off "all he had to do was just explain what swatting was and that would've been the end of it", that's the expectation?Rainbow Six Siege ProGamer KingGeorge got swatted a couple days ago live on stream
They suddenly stood in his room,he explained to them what probably happened(swatting),explained to them what he does and how twitch works and they left.
The hate on cops is so laughable and sad at the same time.
ALL cops are bad probably comes from some guys who got their weed confiscated at one point
Is it that hard to say the cop fucked up? That's all you have to say, instead we're all "anarchist" because you don't want to say a simple truth.Definitely a large anarchist crowd in here. I don't deny there are several bad apples out of the thousands of law enforcement officers, but to say all cops are out murdering people is merely beating a failed horse of an ideology.
You are LITERALLY in a news-topic about a situation why US cops are so dreaded and have a bad reputation. But sure, it's about "weed confiscation". What a fucking disgusting post.Rainbow Six Siege ProGamer KingGeorge got swatted a couple days ago live on stream
They suddenly stood in his room,he explained to them what probably happened(swatting),explained to them what he does and how twitch works and they left.
The hate on cops is so laughable and sad at the same time.
ALL cops are bad probably comes from some guys who got their weed confiscated at one point
The person that was killed was a bystander, not someone participating. Why are you shrugging this off "all he had to do was just explain what swatting was and that would've been the end of it", that's the expectation?
The "hate" on cops comes from police shooting hundreds of people each year. And so many of you just shrug it off like the cops do absolutely nothing wrong and blame the victim, who in most cases winds up dead. Many unarmed and innocent. You don't get to do that for decades and expect people to trust you.
KrebsOnSecurity reports that the individual then changed his Twitter handle to @GoredTutor36, but not before KrebsOnSecurity got its hands on weeks' worth of the original account's tweets. The person behind the account has claimed credit for a number of swatting hoaxes and other threats including one that led to the evacuation of the Dallas Convention Center earlier this month, a bomb threat at a Florida high school in November and the threat that caused the FCC to pause its net neutrality vote a couple of weeks ago.
In direct message conversations with KrebsOnSecurity, the person running @GoredTutor36 said that they had remorse over Finch's death but that they would not be turning themselves in. "People will eventually (most likely those who know me) tell me to turn myself in or something. I can't do that; though I know its [sic] morally right. I'm too scared admittedly," they wrote. They also said, "Bomb threats are more fun and cooler than swats in my opinion and I should have just stuck to that. But I began making $ doing some swat requests." The person also noted that the thrill of such hoaxes "comes from having to hide from police via net connections."
...how exactly? Twitch can't do jack shit about them. They just need to be hunted down and put in jail. Every single one of them. That will stop people from doing it. "Nothing happens, just a prank" etc nonsense is only happening because they get no real backlash.
It's just a little non-specific. There's no such thing as a good cop not because every single person who works in the police is a morally bad person overall (I don't know how you'd even prove this if it were your claim) but rather because the job itself is fundamentally immoral, at least as constituted in America. The police force is the direct descendant of organizations that existed to murder union organizers and capture escaped slaves. It's structured such that police officers are heavily incentivized to harass minorities, brazenly steal from the populace, kill without thought or mercy at any time they decide it's justified, and protect other cops from punishment for the exact crimes they nominally exist to stop including theft, drug dealing, rape and murder. Any person who joins that institution and comes to understand how it really works is making a horrendously corrosive moral choice the moment they don't dedicate themselves to reforming it. That's what "there's no such thing as a good cop" is a (perhaps slightly short) summary of.
Makes no sense for the police to open fire at someone opening or walking to a door or just shooting anyone in general at a reported hostage situation without having any details.
What I read earlier, made it seem like the one cop immediately fired a shot that killed him, before any verbal commands were given. Has this changed?
we could have a thousand more threads for the next 100 years and somebody in 2117 will still ask 'lol you guys just hate all cops for no reason".
People won't understand until it happens to them. And by then it might be too late
How many of those 'good cops' have seen their piece of shit co-workers do something wrong and reported it.The vast majority of cops have never killed or even had to fire their weapon. It's just wrong to say they are all evil and of course people are gonna call that out, ridiculous incorrect broad judgments are usually not well-received.
That didn't happen here, nobody fired at someone opening or walking to a door. After the person opened the door and saw the police, he stepped outside, they told him to raise his hands, he did, then he reached down to his waste and quickly raised his hand back up halfway. The cop thought he may have been pulling a weapon out.Makes no sense for the police to open fire at someone opening or walking to a door or just shooting anyone in general at a reported hostage situation without having any details.
This is the tension, though. If you have a relative who's a cop and they've been a cop for years, they are very likely complicit in horrendous things, because as we've learned more about the internal operations of American police forces it's become clear that coverups for systemic false evidence, unjustified shootings, racial harassment, sexual abuse, and other horrible things are both extremely common and widespread within departments. Turning a blind eye to bad actions isn't the same as committing them directly, but done often enough and at a great enough scale it still becomes something that's impossible to justify or excuse. This case is a perfect example: if anyone on this particular force were a "good cop," they would demand that justice be served against their colleague who murdered an unarmed man through negligence or active disregard for human life. Instead, the police force as a whole will close ranks, there will be zero dissenting voices from police officers, and the officer in question will get away with no consequences for this heinous act. That complicity cuts strongly against the notion of "good" cops, rather than people who might have been good once but now turn a blind eye to injustice.People have cops that are family members or friends, people they know are not pieces of shit.
The hate on cops is so laughable and sad at the same time.
ALL cops are bad probably comes from some guys who got their weed confiscated at one point
Dude c'mon. Cops direct traffic during power outages and when there are wrecks, and they ummm... do a lot of stuff like that. Useful stuff. Filling a state's coffers for minor or non existent violations and killing or arresting people unjustly may be their modus operandi, but make no mistake they are needed.
I watched this show on Netflix the other day called Glitch. It's Aussie. The cop was very likable. In the first episode he had the equivalent of zombies coming at him (They were naked, dirty, people) who could have been piped up drug addicts or who knows and he took it all in stride and behaved in a fashion I'd consider appropriate (cautious yet not murderous). You may say it's just a show but I've seen footage of not only Australian cops but cops all over not being straight up cowards and this sort of behavior in American cops being accepted is just ridiculous. We complain more about the CEO of a video game company than we do about the behaviour of police and the people in charge of them.