Man forced to crawl out of hospital after staff dismiss pleas of help for excruciating leg pain

[FriskyCanuck]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/gopublic/hospital-patient-crawls-out-mental-illness-1.5871307

It happened on April 18, 2018, but involved a lengthy battle for his family to obtain video footage of the event.

The 45-year-old had gone to emergency, complaining of excruciating pain in his legs.

Pontone also told medical staff he took medication for bipolar affective disorder — a mental illness that causes severe depression and episodes of mania — but that he'd been stable for seven years. He says that disclosure affected his treatment.

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When Pontone arrived at emergency he was seen by a doctor who ordered an MRI but also referred him to an on-call psychiatrist after learning about his mental illness.

In medical records obtained by Go Public, the psychiatrist noted that "anxiety" seemed to be Pontone's most dominant symptom — despite Pontone having said he was in a great deal of pain and had been suffering from increasing leg pain for a month.

Another note says the reason for Pontone's visit is "bipolar" — not his inability to walk.

When the MRI didn't find anything unusual, the psychiatrist discharged Pontone.

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It took Pontone about 20 minutes to reach the exit. A security guard later helped him to a waiting taxi.

He says the doctors had made him think his pain was "all in his head," so a few days later, he made his way to CAMH, where a psychiatrist immediately determined that his suffering had nothing to do with his mental health.

An ambulance took him to Toronto Western Hospital in downtown Toronto, where a neurologist diagnosed Guillain-Barre Syndrome, a rare disorder in which the body's immune system attacks the nerves.

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Stergiopoulos was not involved when Pontone visited CAMH. But she says it's so common for health-care professionals to blame mental illness for people's physical health concerns that there's a term for it — "diagnostic overshadowing."

She recalls, several decades ago, "having to take a patient of mine with serious mental illness to the oncologist who had refused to treat her just because she had a mental illness."

"It was through advocacy that I managed to get her into treatment and she was treated successfully," she said. "And to see that persist so many years later, it's really heartbreaking. I think we can do better and I think we should do better."

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A 2019 Lancet Psychiatry Commission reviewed the findings of almost 100 systemic reviews that examined the presence of medical conditions among people worldwide with mental illness. It found that people with serious mental illness have a life expectancy that's up to 25 years shorter than the general population.

"The statistics are indeed shocking," said Stergiopoulos. "And what is most shocking is that they're persisting despite us knowing about these issues for many years now."

She says several factors can be behind the shortened life expectancy for people with mental health issues — such as a sedentary lifestyle or a lack of disease prevention services — but a key reason is stigma and discrimination by health-care workers.

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The video and whole situation is absolutely disgusting. The entire stigma around people suffering or who have suffered from mental illness is an issue that should be taken seriously by policy makers. This isn't right, no one should be discriminated against because of mental illness the fact that this involved the healthcare system makes it all the more shocking.

 

[Musubi]

We are decades behind where we should be with mental health care in 20 fucking 21 its gross. Its still stigmatized and still largely dismissed.

 

[Raxus]

I feel more context is needed. Did the ER give anything for pain medication?

The ER is very limited in what it can diagnose. Extreme pain with no obvious underlying cause usually gets referred to a specialist like the neurologist who diagnosed it. The fact he got an MRI shows they ran tests trying to find the problem but they do not do extensive testing like a pcp or specialist will do.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Fucking disgusting.

 

[EternalDarko]

People really need better training on how to look past their inherent biases.
This kind of thinking so often negatively impacts so many people.

 

[The Boat]

Always the same shit. If you have a hint of a mental problem, lots ot doctors will just ignore your problem and say it's psychological. Fuck em.

 

[Kschreck]

This happened to me. Spent 4 hours in the hospital unable to walk in excruciating pain in my legs. A permanent Charlie horse in my right leg due to a back injury. I got treated like dirt, told I was complaining and sent me home with nothing resolved. I even have decent insurance. They just wanted me gone. I was completely plight and everything. They just didn't give two shits.

 

[Annubis]

I know someone who also had Guylain-Barré and when she went to see the doctor, he told her it was "fatigue" and she was sent home.
Ended up paralysed for months (and eventually had a full recovery).

 

[Necromanti]

This is especially true if you're a woman, unfortunately. Once you've been branded as someone with a mental illness, doctors are a lot more likely to assume your symptoms are mostly (if not entirely) psychosomatic.

 

[RocketKiss]

As a nurse, when I see coworkers belittle or ignore patients' pain it enrages me more than anything. It happens all the time.

 

[JoJo'sDentCo]

I hate doctors sometimes.

 

[TeaberryShark]

How much you want to wager that the persons auto immune disorder is what caused their mental health problems in the first place. Gah why aren't we better wrt mental health treatment, it isn't just "all in your head" ffs. It's like some pseudo science bullshit the way we approach mental health treatment 90% of the time.

 

[Helmholtz]

I keep seeing more and more horror stories involving hospitals here in Canada. I expect this trend will continue. There seem to be major underlying issues relating to discrimination against, and poor treatment of many different people.

 

[leder]

Wow, that's fucked up. This sort of things is the reason I don't want to get officially diagnosed with any mental disorders.

 

[Professor Beef]

 

[Red]

As a nurse, when I see coworkers belittle or ignore patients' pain it enrages me more than anything. It happens all the time.

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When you work in healthcare, and you actually care, it is exhausting to even share space with people who treat patients like expendable goods.

It really opens your eyes to the real nature of humanity. No one should have faith in their care providers. Always push back when things seem wrong. These are people who can be very good for you, but you can't depend on that.

 

[jerf]

It's fucked up but never disclose mental illness unless it extremely relevant to the issue and a life or death situation.

It will get used against you 100% of the time.

 

[Thequietone]

It's fucked up but never disclose mental illness unless it extremely relevant to the issue and a life or death situation.

It will get used against you 100% of the time.

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Problem with that is you have to disclose what medication you're taking as it could interfere with treatment or be the cause of what is ailing you.

 

[Tuck]

As a nurse, when I see coworkers belittle or ignore patients' pain it enrages me more than anything. It happens all the time.

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As a sufferer of chronic pain, I've learned that doctors *love* writing people's pain off as "all in their head." It happens a lot, usually without much sympathy. Means less work for them and they don't have to take ownership of a confusing problem. I imagine then that having a mental disorder is practically a doctor's get out of jail free card for actually having to do work.

 

[pizoxuat]

Going from seeing rheumatologists to seeing a DO made all the difference in the level of care I am receiving for my pain and fatigue. It helps that I am a) upfront with my psychiatric conditions, what meds I am on, and that I am treatment compliant and b) that I strongly dislike opioids because while I have never been formally diagnosed as being allergic to them, they make me itchy all over and it's very unpleasant.

 

[Lozjam]

I used to have fainting spells for up to a year. It was during my college days, and it got so bad I was fainting 2-3 times a day.

I was sent to a hospital, they ran some tests. They brushed off what I had as "psychological". They almost forced me to take medication, and I was pleading with my doctor that it wasn't psychological. They also almost sent me to a psychological hospital "retreat thing". Luckily, my parents were there to back me up, and made sure I didn't go. However, as soon as I left the school. It stopped. Later, I learned there was a large infestation of mold building up the school, that actually caused a small lawsuit. I am actually extremely allergic to mold, and fainting is an extremely common side effect.

I wonder how much my life would have changed if I took them up on that "offer". Thinking I had a mental illness I don't have(and I have talked to psychiatrists to just make sure). Also, the medicine they would have given me would have actually fucked with my life. I am so glad I didn't go.

I will never really trust doctors again.

 

[Sunster]

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Gregory House would never.

 

[Richiek]

I thought this took place in the US. Surprised that this took place in Canada.

 

[Feign]

As a sufferer of chronic pain, I've learned that doctors *love* writing people's pain off as "all in their head." It happens a lot, usually without much sympathy. Means less work for them and they don't have to take ownership of a confusing problem. I imagine then that having a mental disorder is practically a doctor's get out of jail free card for actually having to do work.

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An asshole a friend was dating told me a really helpful tip, which is never say your pain is a 10. Say it's around a 6 or a 7, because despite something being the worst you've ever felt, they're comparing it to their own experiences of what others have dealt with. Of course, that only gets you so far. I was having intense, debilitating pains every few weeks where I'd end up in the hospital. They kept putting me on morphine and then when that got rid of the pain, they'd say that was good enough. They did some testing around my gallbladder, which is an issue with my family and where the pain was, but never found anything. However, when I was getting surgery for something else the surgeon said he'd take a look and ended up removing it because it wasn't right. Suddenly no more pain. I get that tests are limited, but it's frustrating to think that I knew what it was and if it wasn't for that unrelated surgery, I might still be having that pain. (And I do still suffer from chronic pain, just not that pain.)

I feel worst for my mom. She fell on her back and our GP refused to give her the go ahead to get an X-Ray, thinking she was overreacting. It took a week and my stepfather screaming at him for it to approve it. Li and behold, she needed surgery and physical therapy to treat it. She now has permanent damage because of that. They also messed up her post-surgery treatment and had her doing Physical Therapy for 2 years that actually made it worse.

It's so frustrating having to navigate getting a medical worker believe you.

 

[Zip]

I keep seeing more and more horror stories involving hospitals here in Canada. I expect this trend will continue. There seem to be major underlying issues relating to discrimination against, and poor treatment of many different people.

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My limited experience it seems there are a bunch of assholes in the system. Nurses who don't give a shit about the patients seems common. I know seeing person after person can numb you to it all, but if someone is in pain you shouldn't disregard it or talk down to them like they're an idiot or what they're going through is of no importance.

I dislocated my knee a while ago and went to get it checked. Nurses at a station I was sent to ignored me until another one stepped in and got the report I was sent to ask for. They looked at the results, said nothing was broken, and literally said "The exit is down the hall. Take a left.". When I was limping along and it hurt like hell to walk.

Too many health professionals seem to have lost their empathy. If they had it to begin with, as it's a popular career for people to aim for due to the pay and benefits.

 

[Particle Physicist]

I know someone who also had Guylain-Barré and when she went to see the doctor, he told her it was "fatigue" and she was sent home.
Ended up paralysed for months (and eventually had a full recovery).

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guillaine barre is very difficult to diagnose initially. It's a progressive disorder so it becomes more apparent later on but it is incredibly common to require a few visits before the diagnosis is made.

 

[antonz]

Hopsitals are so focused on going by the book on treating things that they forget there is more than just what the book says to treatment.

My grandfather fell and fractured his Humerus on New Years Eve. They decided his blood pressure which they acknowledged was increased due to the injury and pain required he stay longer instead of just treating his arm and letting him leave. This turned into a nearly 3 week stay at the Hospital. In that time they did basically nothing with him but let him lay in bed and take blood pressure medicine. Meanwhile his leg muscles began to atrophy etc.

When it came time for them to decide he was "ready for discharge" he went from an 85 year old man who could walk miles everyday to a man who is now having trouble even standing up and moving 2 feet. All this because he fractured an arm muscle and they decided to exploit that for weeks of hospital stay and now they are giving the whole spiel about how this could be a permanent loss of mobility etc and it happens. Of course it fucking happens when they neglet their patients. He was not in there for anything with his legs but they turned him into essentially a cripple

If he had just been released as they originally planned hed still be walking miles

 

[Marvo Pandoras]

guillaine barre is very difficult to diagnose initially. It's a progressive disorder so it becomes more apparent later one but it is incredibly common to require a few visits before the diagnosis is made.

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This is very true.

Honestly, I am not surprised that ER sent him home after his MRI was negative. As far as ER is concerned it's not a musculoskeletal issue.

 

[Zoe]

Gregory House would never.

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He was the one denied care.

 

[Crazymoogle]

My limited experience it seems there are a bunch of assholes in the system. Nurses who don't give a shit about the patients seems common. I know seeing person after person can numb you to it all, but if someone is in pain you shouldn't disregard it or talk down to them like they're an idiot or what they're going through is of no importance.

I dislocated my knee a while ago and went to get it checked. Nurses at a station I was sent to ignored me until another one stepped in and got the report I was sent to ask for. They looked at the results, said nothing was broken, and literally said "The exit is down the hall. Take a left.". When I was limping along and it hurt like hell to walk.

Too many health professionals seem to have lost their empathy. If they had it to begin with, as it's a popular career for people to aim for due to the pay and benefits.

Click to shrink...

My own experience in Canada has been basically that nurses are generally fine - although I don't have much experience seeing the ER side - but the system is so massively overworked that the only people you will meet are the "tenure" folks that live within the confines of the system, or the juniors who are just doing their hours until they have the experience needed to move to the US and basically add zeroes to their paychecks.

• Eye Problem: 6 month wait
• Gastro problem: 1-2 months if cancer is a possibility. After that, 1 year wait for a 4 minute check.
• ACL Surgery: 1 year+
• ENH: 1.5 year wait

Quebec used to have a workaround for people who could pay with a semi-private specialist industry, but now a lot of that is dead. With the government controlling salary and reducing staff to meet budget cuts, you just see this massive struggle where the printer sheet says "book appointment 2 weeks in advance", the staff computer can only look 9 months in advance, and the appointment you need is more than a year from now.

The information divide is so bad that I'm no longer surprised to meet real-life Dr. House's in the system. I know a gastro in Quebec that literally told me he doesn't give a shit about what I have to say, and if you respond he just writes a scrip for a psychiatrist. The nurses quietly apologize afterward, say he's amazing with kids and cancer patients. But I've also see him just destroy people who try to step around the system.

 

[RocketKiss]

Severe pain can alter one's mental status, especially for someone who already has mental issues. Can make you downright delirious.

 

[Professor Beef]

Gregory House would never.

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but he's certainly been on the receiving end

 

[Chan]

My limited experience it seems there are a bunch of assholes in the system. Nurses who don't give a shit about the patients seems common. I know seeing person after person can numb you to it all, but if someone is in pain you shouldn't disregard it or talk down to them like they're an idiot or what they're going through is of no importance.

I dislocated my knee a while ago and went to get it checked. Nurses at a station I was sent to ignored me until another one stepped in and got the report I was sent to ask for. They looked at the results, said nothing was broken, and literally said "The exit is down the hall. Take a left.". When I was limping along and it hurt like hell to walk.

Too many health professionals seem to have lost their empathy. If they had it to begin with, as it's a popular career for people to aim for due to the pay and benefits.

Click to shrink...

Been working the ER for like 8 years now and it's really the frequent flyers that make us lose empathy. I had a lack of empathy when I started and literally don't care anymore. Leaving the ER full time was my best decision I made. And yeah, I wouldn't do this nursing shit if it weren't for the pay.

 

[Dog]

Similar to what I had, that Guillain-Barre Syndrome was brought up a lot when I was in A&E going out of my mind with pain/numbness in my legs and feet the damage eventually stopped at my lower back as it spread up. Turned out it was Transverse Myelitis and not GB then went on to MS.

Guess I was lucky my hospital knew about such things and did a great job with me when I arrived (UK), I can't even begin to imagine what that poor man and likely loads of other people feel when ignored.

Neurology shit really needs to step up their game. I've actually been through 3 neurologists because of their trash attitudes and seemingly lack of knowledge of MS, the very illness they "specialise" in lol. Not super happy with my care currently that's for sure.

Yes they try and blame shit on mental health or anxiety so I keep that stuff on the hush, give them an inch and they take a mile.

 

[Sunster]

but he's certainly been on the receiving end

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Well they tried to help him. They just didn't know where the pain was originating until it was too late.

 

[Zoe]

Well they tried to help him. They just didn't know where the pain was originating until it was too late.

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They thought he was a drug seeker at first.

 

[Sunster]

They thought he was a drug seeker at first.

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Are we talking about the Histories episode? I don't remember them being skeptical of him

 

[SpaceCrystal]

That's terrible. They need to lose their licenses.

 

[Zoe]

Are we talking about the Histories episode? I don't remember them being skeptical of him

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Yeah, they say the ER didn't believe him, especially when he injected himself and experienced instant relief. It's the getting sent home that cost him his leg.

 

[Sunster]

Yeah, they say the ER didn't believe him, especially when he injected himself and experienced instant relief. It's the getting sent home that cost him his leg.

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Ahhh I guess I'm remembering it wrong. I forgot he was sent home and injected himself. I thought he was there the whole time and they just couldn't figure it out

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

I've been witness to how the mental health industry treats psychosis and someone I knew died because of it. General Hospitals haven't been much better when i've had to stay at them, but what can I do. Even some of the social workers that used to visit didn't give a shit, and mostly just browsed the internet on their tablet.

 

[Rosebud]

Is this 1935? What the hell...

 

[Jakten]

I went to the ER once because my legs were too weak to walk, and I randomly went blind for a whole day and kept falling in and out of conciousness. From what I read online I thought I might be having seizures. I hardly knew what was even happening but when they called me in, I went to the back and they led me to a side room with 2 other people where a nurse? (doctor?) Told us not to come in again because we were wasting their time so I went and lost conciousness in the waiting room again. Then I was home somehow. Luckily my sight came back a few days later and I starrted to feel better but I still have no idea why any of that happened. Went to a couple of different doctors after and was just told to take some ibuprofen and lie down and other useless crap.

That was a long time ago but I recently fainted and smacked my head on a floor and started feeling similar to before, my friend who is a nurse told me to go to the ER immediately but like, why? If I'm constantly getting push back toward help then why bother?? Especially around now when they probably hate to see every person coming through the door. Anyway, I did eventually go but they wouldn't let me in the front so they told me to walk around the building to a door that didn't exist, so I asked a guard at the ambulance entrance and he told me to go away and that the entrance was in a completely different spot (It wasn't). Thats when the anti-mask people showed up so figured it was better to stop wandering around and I went home.

Hospitals just wanna be like that I guess.

 

[msdstc]

I made a post about this, but I'm currently at severe risk of going blind/deaf and now have a massive blood clot and am on blood thinners.

For years doctors told me my extreme fatigue, double vision, and ringing in my ears (along with many other neurological symptoms) were a result of health anxiety and tried several medications to help me out. Things have very slowly progressed until coming to a boil this year, when they finally found the root cause of the issue. Because it had been dismissed as psychosomatic, severe damage had been done to my internal jugular vein a which are now damaged beyond repair. I've had several procedures and one major surgery with several more to come.

If the doctors had even slightly taken my case seriously over the last 15 years it all would've been prevented. As far as I'm concerned 50% of my life has been destroyed by these assholes who saw anti anxiety meds on my record and decided that was the answer.

 

[winkerstein]

My father had GBS. It was scary to witness the man I watched work his tail off every single day, forced to being bed ridden, and then in a hospital bed paralyzed and near dead. Since that, 3 years later, my dad has made a full recovery. GBS is a rare disease and it took a few months for his diagnosis and my dad was sent in and out of a few different specialists before it was finally found out. I feel so sorry for this man, I can't even imagine.

 

[McScroggz]

All pain is real. Even if there isn't a pathology for it. More healthcare workers should understand this. Or just treat their patients better 😕

 

[Niosai]

My wife has had to deal with this. Every time a doctor sees her records show a history of mental health issues, they ask her if she has any anxiety. She used to say yes, and every medical problem was blanket diagnosed as "anxiety" and sent home.

Turns out, every single issue she had had nothing to do with anxiety and it took significantly more time to get a diagnosis because she happened to mention she was anxious the first time.

Don't tell the doctors you're anxious unless you want to be treated for only anxiety, I guess. They'll ignore legitimate problems.

 

[survivor]

I get the feeling a lot of health care professionals in Canada just want patients who have "easy" problems to identify and treat and when it's something they don't understand they get frustrated and dismissive rather than try to work out what's wrong.

I guess the incentives just aren't there when dealing with complex issues?

 

[catpurrcat]

My own experience in Canada has been basically that nurses are generally fine - although I don't have much experience seeing the ER side - but the system is so massively overworked that the only people you will meet are the "tenure" folks that live within the confines of the system, or the juniors who are just doing their hours until they have the experience needed to move to the US and basically add zeroes to their paychecks.

• Eye Problem: 6 month wait
• Gastro problem: 1-2 months if cancer is a possibility. After that, 1 year wait for a 4 minute check.
• ACL Surgery: 1 year+
• ENH: 1.5 year wait

Quebec used to have a workaround for people who could pay with a semi-private specialist industry, but now a lot of that is dead. With the government controlling salary and reducing staff to meet budget cuts, you just see this massive struggle where the printer sheet says "book appointment 2 weeks in advance", the staff computer can only look 9 months in advance, and the appointment you need is more than a year from now.

The information divide is so bad that I'm no longer surprised to meet real-life Dr. House's in the system. I know a gastro in Quebec that literally told me he doesn't give a shit about what I have to say, and if you respond he just writes a scrip for a psychiatrist. The nurses quietly apologize afterward, say he's amazing with kids and cancer patients. But I've also see him just destroy people who try to step around the system.

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That's awful, I'm sorry you had to deal with that in Quebec. Of the small number of friends I have left living in Toronto, they all made a conscious decision to live in Toronto, even if their home was tiny, even if their commute was awful, in large part to be close to competent healthcare.

which is why it may be baffling sometimes to see why those of us particularly in Toronto are wondering why there are so many complaints about healthcare.

A friend of mine had a heart attack, in a city about an hour from Toronto by car. The local hospital didn't have the machine needed to do some sort of test on his heart. They took him to a regional hospital about a half hour away. Then they said there was some sort of computer crash and had to take him by ambulance all the way into downtown Toronto. And that's where he ended up staying and having heart surgery. He does his follow up in Toronto even though he lives an hour outside the city!

 

[Crazymoogle]

That's awful, I'm sorry you had to deal with that in Quebec. Of the small number of friends I have left living in Toronto, they all made a conscious decision to live in Toronto, even if their home was tiny, even if their commute was awful, in large part to be close to competent healthcare.

which is why it may be baffling sometimes to see why those of us particularly in Toronto are wondering why there are so many complaints about healthcare.

A friend of mine had a heart attack, in a city about an hour from Toronto by car. The local hospital didn't have the machine needed to do some sort of test on his heart. They took him to a regional hospital about a half hour away. Then they said there was some sort of computer crash and had to take him by ambulance all the way into downtown Toronto. And that's where he ended up staying and having heart surgery. He does his follow up in Toronto even though he lives an hour outside the city!

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The weird thing about Quebec is that it's still "partially" private. I could pay $150 to get private labs or a GP consult within 24 hours (compared to here in Singapore where as part of my insurance I can go to a clinic and usually see a doctor in 20-30mins tops). But Quebec outlawed private specialists, so all of the Gastro, etc had to rejoin the public system or quit. I know of one pretty good Gastroenterologist who was doing the private/public mix (cheap procedures because the government would pay for the op but not for the anesthesia, I believe) who has since just left the province entirely.

I would say the worst though is the general GP experience, and this I believe has spread a bit to BC as well. In Montreal downtown, if you need to see a doctor, your only option is to wait outside your regional GP center at around 7~am. You wait in line for around a half hour until the center opens, then you wait indoors (the line just moves inside). And then when the registration desk opens you wait until you get a ticket to either see a GP within a half hour (if you were at the front of the line) or up to two hours later (towards the back). If you show up after 8:30 it's impossible to see a doctor that day and your only option is ER or just tough it out until tomorrow. There are always people in line who don't understand the system and as a bystander you just sort of have to help them cope because the desk staff have no choice to treat the line as the law.

tl;dr I think the public system has a great advantage in terms of cost, but I have to say living next to the US that a hybrid system offers a lot of advantages to those who can afford it while also relieving some of the pressure on the public one.