this. If people wanna make their own masks go for it but please do not go buying masks to protect yourself if you aren't an at-risk person.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Make mask (scarf, bandana, mask) wearing mandatory in the US.
- Thread starter DukeBlueBall
- Start date
this. If people wanna make their own masks go for it but please do not go buying masks to protect yourself if you aren't an at-risk person.
His policies also led to the US becoming #1 in the world in infections... so not gonna listen to him over other countries that are comparatively doing way better.Probably won't happen in the US. The lead Doctor, Dr. Fauci, told everyone it doesn't help.
"Theres no reason to be walking around with a mask... While masks prevent some droplets they do not provide the level of protection people think they do."
March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19
In March, Fauci told 60 Minutes that masks should largely be reserved for healthcare providers. In April, the recommendations were broadened to include simple masks for the general public.www.cbsnews.com
Not saying you are wrong. Just providing context as to why stuff like this doesn't catch on.
Do you have something to attribute the use of makeshift masks and bandanas to flattening the curve? I've been looking.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...6736(20)30551-1/fulltext#.XoCx1cGa7kI.twitter
That looks into why countries that are flattening the curve might have been successful in doing so. Information about the effectiveness of makeshift masks seems scarce but concerns around people having a false sense of security and being more lax in social distancing seem to have grounding. We're not talking universal use of N95 masks and makeshift masks from clothing can be poor when they're not sealed and reused. Is there anything substantive around suggesting universal use of them by all would have a positive impact?
I posted that on the last page in response to someone else as I keep seeing people allude to the fact that makeshift masks and the flattening of the curve are connected. The WHO advice is the same as that which you're suggesting has led to an increase in infections..
When and how to use masks
WHO's guidance and advice on the use of masks to protect against and limit the spread of COVID-19.
Probably won't happen in the US. The lead Doctor, Dr. Fauci, told everyone it doesn't help.
"Theres no reason to be walking around with a mask... While masks prevent some droplets they do not provide the level of protection people think they do."
March 2020: Dr. Anthony Fauci talks with Dr Jon LaPook about COVID-19
In March, Fauci told 60 Minutes that masks should largely be reserved for healthcare providers. In April, the recommendations were broadened to include simple masks for the general public.
Not saying you are wrong. Just providing context as to why stuff like this doesn't catch on.
He is though, medical experts are right. Clinical studies have shown they do not help in public, in controlled environments there is some protection, but only when masks are replaced often. Distance + washing your hands are vital, mask is not.
Infection took place way before any policy was enacted. Also Trump watered down how serious the virus is, and failed to act government wide emrgency.
There are a ton of articles posted in this thread already on this topic. But countries doing well on this matter are typically in East Asia (where people have been almost wearing masks 100% of the time), and now there's evidence Eastern Europe is catching on...Do you have something to attribute the use of makeshift masks and bandanas to flattening the curve? I've been looking.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...6736(20)30551-1/fulltext#.XoCx1cGa7kI.twitter
That looks into why countries that are flattening the curve might have been successful in doing so. Information about the effectiveness of makeshift masks seems scarce but concerns around people having a false sense of security and being more lax in social distancing seem to have more grounding than being bullshit. We're not talking universal use of N95 masks and makeshift masks from clothing can be poor when they're not sealed and reused. Is there anything substantive around suggesting universal use of them by all would have a positive impact?
I posted it on the last page in response to someone else as I keep seeing people allude to the fact that makeshift masks and the flattening of the curve are connected. The WHO advice is the same as that which you're suggesting has led to an increase in infections:
Plus that's talking about proper masks, not makeshift ones from items of clothing that don't form a seal and are likely to be reused.When and how to use masks
WHO's guidance and advice on the use of masks to protect against and limit the spread of COVID-19.www.who.int
again, you people aren't reading the thread. Wearing masks is about preventing people Who are infected from infecting others. Asymptotic people who have the virus can still spread it just by talking to someone else within 6 ft away, or have their saliva land on a surface and someone else touching it. Any form of barrier will lessen this risk. It is not rocket science.
clinical studies always talk about how wearers are protected but doesn't go into how others are protected from the wearer... it's always the same leading to misconstrued notions of what wearing masks is about.
there are also a bunch of studies that show the contrary anyway including from the CDC itself, so please stop spreading this lie.
We're talking about makeshift masks. What countries are encouraging their citizens to wear makeshift masks?
If it's as logical as you suggest I can't see why the WHO isn't recommending it or why there isn't official literature encouraging it.
What's with this false sense of security shit
It ain't hard, stay the fuck at home and if you have to go outside for essential stuff wear the fucking mask, even a makeshift one
It ain't hard, stay the fuck at home and if you have to go outside for essential stuff wear the fucking mask, even a makeshift one
here you go in terms of research on DIY masks https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/
keep in mind this research is based on filtering just the virus... whereas aerosol particles are much larger and so trapping them would be even more effective.
read the op for which countries are doing that.
You don't need a mask while social distancing outside. You don't really even need one in a store if you're healthy and practicing appropriate distancing. Mask hoarding is an issue caused by people thinking that because they have a mask they can just bop all over or won't get sick.
Surprise, you unknowingly cross-contaminated with those gloves and that mask dozens of times because you aren't a trained professional—rendering your precautions useless.
Here's how you stay healthy:
Keep a bottle of hand sanitizer. A small dab after entering your car will help. Wipe your steering wheel down regularly
Wipe down your phone with isopropyl alcohol.
Wash your hands with regular frequency after touching door knobs—wipe your door knobs with a sanitizing wipe a few times a week.
Keep your hands out of your mouth.
refrain from large gatherings and small parties with friends.
There you go—you're now less likely to get sick from even the common cold, and masks stay in the hands of individuals who actually need them.
Surprise, you unknowingly cross-contaminated with those gloves and that mask dozens of times because you aren't a trained professional—rendering your precautions useless.
Here's how you stay healthy:
Keep a bottle of hand sanitizer. A small dab after entering your car will help. Wipe your steering wheel down regularly
Wipe down your phone with isopropyl alcohol.
Wash your hands with regular frequency after touching door knobs—wipe your door knobs with a sanitizing wipe a few times a week.
Keep your hands out of your mouth.
refrain from large gatherings and small parties with friends.
There you go—you're now less likely to get sick from even the common cold, and masks stay in the hands of individuals who actually need them.
Appreciate the link, was a bit to dig through to get to the meat but it led me to this:
Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to Respiratory Infections among the General Population
Governments are preparing for a potential influenza pandemic. Therefore they need data to assess the possible impact of interventions. Face-masks worn by the general population could be an accessible and affordable intervention, if effective when worn ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Which is interesting and what I was looking for specifically around makeshift ones in particular, will give it a read.
Thread has been read prior to posting. It's still inappropriate and counter productive. Everyone wearing a mask will not help. It does not factor for human error.
Yes, controlled environment. Public will never be that, so i'll take the data backed my renown experts as the authority on this.
Advertisements claiming protection with masks have been banned for misinformation and misleading, so i think you and others here need to stop spreading dangerous advice:
Coronavirus: Face mask ads banned for 'misleading' claims
Adverts by two firms made false claims about preventing the spread of coronavirus, watchdog rules.
www.bbc.com
This seems 100% logical to me. There are two ways the virus spreads.
1. Breathing in droplets in the air from a contaminated persons sneeze.
2. Touching a contaminated surface.
If 100% of the country wore masks in public in addition to the other measures it would significantly reduce droplets in the air and the contaminated surfaces. Remember there is some period of time and infected person will not show symptoms so the theory that only sick people should wear masks is dumb. Come on people and Trump make this a requirement.
1. Breathing in droplets in the air from a contaminated persons sneeze.
2. Touching a contaminated surface.
If 100% of the country wore masks in public in addition to the other measures it would significantly reduce droplets in the air and the contaminated surfaces. Remember there is some period of time and infected person will not show symptoms so the theory that only sick people should wear masks is dumb. Come on people and Trump make this a requirement.
Then you are ignoring all of the evidence that proves the contrary.
Its funny how all of these guidelines are coming from the countries in the West that are failing at containment, when the guidelines from the countries that are actually succeeding are being ignore in this thread.Yes, controlled environment. Public will never be that, so i'll take the data backed my renown experts as the authority on this.
Advertisements claiming protection with masks have been banned for misinformation and misleading, so i think you and others here need to stop spreading dangerous advice:
Coronavirus: Face mask ads banned for 'misleading' claims
Adverts by two firms made false claims about preventing the spread of coronavirus, watchdog rules.
User warned: hostility
I stopped reading here because that's the fucking point. A big proportion of the people infected with COVID-19 think they are healthy and unknowingly spread it to others.
Ignorant people who pretend to know it all are the worst.
I've made it abundantly clear that a mask does not stop cross contamination. A mask will not stop you from getting sick. I think I'd know as a first responder that it's sanitization efforts that keep you from getting ill.
There is a point where people are going to intermingle again, and a mask will not prevent you from getting the virus. Can it help with the spread? Sure 100% along with prescription eye shields. Masks, gloves, and protective eye wear can prevent you getting Hep B, HIV, lots of things.
My main point being that none of that matters unless you are properly aware that it's your hands you should be worried about the most—as it can undo any effort you have made.
I appreciate the kind words though.
This shit is making people crazy.
I don't know how people arguing against masks are doing so with a straight face.
It comes down to this, there are plenty of asymptomatic carriers. They cough or sneeze without a mask and it'll possibly contaminate two metres in front on them, with a mask maybe it contains a few of those droplets and it doesn't project as far.
A measure like this is ot going to stop you catching it, it supposed to possibly reduce contamination, from those unaware that they are carriers.
If masks didn't reduce spread they wouldn't have made me wear a mask when I went to get tested. Remember it's not there to protect me, it was to stop my potential fluids getting on shit.
I don't know how people arguing against masks are doing so with a straight face.
It comes down to this, there are plenty of asymptomatic carriers. They cough or sneeze without a mask and it'll possibly contaminate two metres in front on them, with a mask maybe it contains a few of those droplets and it doesn't project as far.
A measure like this is ot going to stop you catching it, it supposed to possibly reduce contamination, from those unaware that they are carriers.
If masks didn't reduce spread they wouldn't have made me wear a mask when I went to get tested. Remember it's not there to protect me, it was to stop my potential fluids getting on shit.
Nobody says that you can stop washing your hands or that you should start touching your face though. Masks come as an additional measure. It's not like you need to opt: "It's either masks OR washing your hands".
Years ago I designed a mask that used:
A t-shirt
6 coffee filters
Activated charcoal
The coffee filters dont filter out a small enough micron level so the trick (as I designed it) was to use multiple brands of coffee filter to get the micron levels down. Now I'm now scientist and this kinda thing has probably been debunked by now but it really seemed to work.
A t-shirt
6 coffee filters
Activated charcoal
The coffee filters dont filter out a small enough micron level so the trick (as I designed it) was to use multiple brands of coffee filter to get the micron levels down. Now I'm now scientist and this kinda thing has probably been debunked by now but it really seemed to work.
Makeshift masks by and large aren't actually useful. You'd basically just be doing it to make yourself feel better which is fine but not terribly helpful.
Of course, I agree that it is an additional measure. My point being that cross contamination isn't particularly being taught here in the US. There is a false sense of security that the laid person here has that if they wear a mask and gloves while out that they'll be fine—that is not the case.
Above all else—sanitize your hands, various utilities you frequently touch, and don't re use your gloves and masks.
Correct, and you can be lulled into a false sense of security by wearing them.
Ffs people in this thread can't read at all. So many excuses and whataboutism.
- Wear a makeshift mask, it's not perfect but it helps to spread the virus less
- Don't hoard n95 masks
- You can be asymptomatic and still spread the virus
- Still stay home and still wash your hands
it's not complicated, we need to normalize wearing masks. Stop getting into hypothetical cases and to stop something that's good
- Wear a makeshift mask, it's not perfect but it helps to spread the virus less
- Don't hoard n95 masks
- You can be asymptomatic and still spread the virus
- Still stay home and still wash your hands
it's not complicated, we need to normalize wearing masks. Stop getting into hypothetical cases and to stop something that's good
If you're genuinely confused it's because it isn't part of most official advice and runs counter to the recommendation of the World Health Organization.
What are the latest rules for face coverings and masks?
Rules around face coverings are easing across the UK but they are still required in some settings.
www.bbc.co.uk
In the UK a face mask company was fined for suggesting to wear one:
Coronavirus: Face mask ads banned for 'misleading' claims
Adverts by two firms made false claims about preventing the spread of coronavirus, watchdog rules.
www.bbc.co.uk
It shouldn't be a mystery why some question the benefit of mandating makeshift masks across a country when it's not the recommendation of most official outlets.
The countries you mentioned introduced lockdown sooner, with larger capacity for testing and places like Singapore + SK were proactive by using detectives to retrace all contacts in order to contain the virus. Id take anything from China with a pinch of salt. East Asia has seen a second wave of infection rise as of late March, which id suspect that couldn't happen if those masks were effective.
And official advice from Singaporean government, one of the most successful nations in tackling covid-19 advise against masks.
Coronavirus: Why some countries wear face masks and others don't
Step outside without a face mask in Hong Kong and you'll get looks. That's not true elsewhere. Why?
www.bbc.com
More info about masks here:
What are the latest rules for face coverings and masks?
Rules around face coverings are easing across the UK but they are still required in some settings.
www.bbc.com
You Need To Listen To This Leading COVID-19 Expert From South Korea | STAY CURIOUS #15
We want to thank Professor Kim Woo-joo from Korea University Guro Hospital for taking his valuable time to inform our subscribers. He just started his offici...
youtu.be
Please watch this, timestamp at mask questions, but preferablyt watch all of it. Interview with arguably the most credible source on COVID-19 from South Korea, the country that dealt with the virus the best so far. I'd believe his authority over any other western one considering his experience and results of the measures. His reaction to the stupidity of questioning masks contribution to the virus spread says it all. But I guess we need to be told that it absolutely helps to lessen the spread going by some of the posts here. Why the hell would doctors/nurses would need masks themselves then if it doesn't give them additional layer of protection?
It'd be especially helpful for people who, like the dumbasses they are, assume they're fine and not a threat to others, forgetting that a large percent of infected are asymptomatic.
Last edited:
If you're genuinely confused it's because it isn't part of most official advice and runs counter to the recommendation of the World Health Organization.
Coronavirus: Face mask ads banned for 'misleading' claims
Adverts by two firms made false claims about preventing the spread of coronavirus, watchdog rules.www.bbc.co.uk
In the UK a face mask company was fined for suggesting to wear one:
Coronavirus: Face mask ads banned for 'misleading' claims
Adverts by two firms made false claims about preventing the spread of coronavirus, watchdog rules.www.bbc.co.uk
It shouldn't be a mystery why some question the benefit of mandating makeshift masks across a country when it's not the recommendation of most official outlets.
Both of those links were about using masks to protect the wearer from the virus. Again go get a test they will tell you to wear a mask, again it's not to protect the wearer it's to stop the wearer shedding as much and as far.
It doesn't matter. The suggestion that the majority of the population should wear masks goes against the recommendation of Public Health England, the World Health Organization and others. That's what's being spoken to in them and why people are resistant to the notion.
The bbc stuff is about false claims the masks can protect yourself. This discussion is mainly about protecting others, not yourself (in case you are a carrier and don't show any symptoms, hence you don't know it yourself). Same applies to the WHO recommendations.Yes, controlled environment. Public will never be that, so i'll take the data backed my renown experts as the authority on this.
Advertisements claiming protection with masks have been banned for misinformation and misleading, so i think you and others here need to stop spreading dangerous advice:
Coronavirus: Face mask ads banned for 'misleading' claims
Adverts by two firms made false claims about preventing the spread of coronavirus, watchdog rules.
The question is why the WHO (Deputy Chief Medical Officers, Public Health England, etc.) wouldn't recommend populations wear masks or makeshift masks if it had a demonstrable impact on a local epidemic? Instead the notion runs counter to their guidance.
Forget OP. It's obvious people here who have for weeks been telling people not to wear masks don't want to admit they were wrong and/or just don't want to wear them so they keep pushing the narrative that they aren't working.
The two most commonly cite reasons have been:
1) limited supply of medical masks that can create shortages for those who need it
2) a desire to minimize panic and anxiety
The first one is a legit concern but can be solved if the country wills it (Vietnam is mandating that its companies produce 5 million masks PER DAY - and this is a country that has been praised for its response so far)
The second is basically moot at this point since Western society STILL isn't taking this virus seriously because of constant downplaying.which is leading to the opposite effect.
And on your point about the DIY masks - this whole thread came up because there's a country which is now mandating it... This is about what ELSE countries can do to improve this situation, and so far all anyone's rebuttal is is that the countries failing at this are saying no.
And the answer to that is to educate the people not to feed them more half truths or even lies.
Seems kinda of contradictory, no?
Known carriers and possible carriers are encouraged, and possibly required, depending on location to wear a mask, (I was required) obviously for the reason that stopping their shedding is a good idea. So masks definately do something.
We know that there is a decent percentage of people with the illness that are asymptomatic and are shedding, but putting mask on them does nothing?
WHO and the like are only recommending people don't wear masks because they don't want people hoarding them with medical professionals needing them more.
Even if they recommend people only wear homemade masks there would still be a run on the real deal because people are lazy/stupid.
Look at grocery stores. "Don't hoard, there's enough for everyone." Yet every day the bread and chicken sections wiped out.
Even if they recommend people only wear homemade masks there would still be a run on the real deal because people are lazy/stupid.
Look at grocery stores. "Don't hoard, there's enough for everyone." Yet every day the bread and chicken sections wiped out.
I live in the UK. I have been told due to the medication I take I can't go out of the house or interact with people outside my household for 3 months. That's not even being able to go outside for exercise. We are dumping packaging/bags that have come into contact with others as soon as they enter the house and then wiping any handles/surfaces with disinfectant that they could have encountered. You think the U.K. government still isn't taking it seriously enough when they advice something as extreme as this?
You're questioning the official recommendation from WHO, not my opinion on things.
They do not recommend for the general population to wear masks.
England's Deputy Chief Medical Officer actively discourages it on the BBC.
I think the idea of wearing a mask to protect others is not really established here. Covid19 also works differently from other infections since you can transfer the infection even if you don't show any symptoms at all. In the scenarios from 2010 and later involving mutated corona viruses the assumption was always that you have to have symptons like coughing in order to be contageous.
And quite frankly even if we do not have scientific proof yet because it's too early etc. mandatory masks or makeshift masks are far less intrusive than what I am currently facing (no daycare for my son, stay at home etc.) so I would take any chance to shorten the duration of the current lockdown and see where it goes.
I said Western society isn't taking it seriously... All the people that are going to parks and beaches and not respecting the social distancing rules, etc. And that's because this virus was long downplayed since the leaders don't want to "incite panic" etc. that would lead to downturn in markets.
Governments are finally wising up - but this thread is about what else they should reconsider beyond the current measures based on what some other countries are doing.
The WHO is basically a reflection of western attitudes that has led us to where we are today...
But one is proofed you work (isolation even if it is more intrusive) while face masks aren't. And even if they do reduce the amount of viral shedding into the air, it's still going to be on the mask - what happens when people touch them which they will because they'll be uncomfortable to wear for any amp of time? Their hands will be covered in it and it's unlikely everyone's going to wash their hands every time they touch their mask. And the masks probably aren't going to be changed enough either. That would just make it another source of the virus for a device which there is no scientific proof would actually work. N95 masks work in a clinical environment with staff that have been trained correctly in how to use PPE. That doesn't mean it's going to work for a general population who are untrained , not good at following the simpler advice that's already out there and not actually have proper masks.
This is a good point, as I stated in my very first post in an ideal world with infinite masks sure everyone should be wearing one. However I think the main reason that guidelines in the west are to only wear if sick is to make sure there is adequate supply for medical staff. If there was less stigma around wearing masks and headwaters than production for western countries would likely be greater and this would be less of a problem.The problem with COVID-19 is its massive amount of asymptomatic and presymptomatic carriers who can still spread the virus, so mandatory wearing in crowded places can provide protection from these carriers. This is straight from the mouth of the head of Chinese CDC.
Science | AAAS
www.sciencemag.org
This is more nuanced than mask=good or mask=bad, for instance if masks become mandatory does that lead to people who make homemade masks (don't know how effective they are I assume it varies by material and time worn) feeling more safe thus leaving the home more (which is the opposite of what they should be doing) even if this is only a small percentage that could be overall negative. Also I'm sure a certain percentage would see themselves as requiring the best masks, which would lead to supply for hospitals and other medical institutions missing out on a certain amount. This could lead to even non-Covid surgeries and the like being affected leaving those people more vulnerable to Covid as may be the case here in NZ with dentists running out of surgical masks to use. This could lead to further fatalities both directly and indirectly involving Covid.
The last thing I want personally is to contract this thing as I live with my grandfather who is in his 70s and has numerous health conditions, so if he contracts it he is pretty much fucked, which is leading to a very stressful situation for me. Luckily so far we have both managed to stay home for the past week and have enough food to last us at least til the end of this week.
Anyway it's nearly 2:30am so if I don't reply to anyone quoting me it's because hopefully I'm asleep.
Wearing masks needs to become part of our culture. The governors need to push for it during their daily briefings.
They dont have enough capacity/masks. We need those in hospitals.