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Deleted member 38227

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,317
- Terrible product overload targeting whales (like the Collector Boxes)
- The worst MTG books ever
Those collector packs/boxes were the worst. I got one for the buy-a-box promo and never bought another. My friend and also my nephew, who have no business spending that amount of money on a pack, got suckered by those big time. Wizards are grifting hard there.
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,499
Year of the Rat looks fantastic.

BTW, Marrow-Gnawer and Ink-Eyes are both rather expensive, so $40 isn't as odd as it seems.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,153
So I guess the cat box was one of the better selling ones eh? Seems like a direct corollary there. The actual value of the box vs the market price of the cards is fine, it's just kind of a boring set of cards.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,320
Are they for real with this Secret Lair: Rats? Jesus.
It's the Zodiac year of the Rat, every single gacha game i've been playing has some sort of new Ratgirl for the new year, there are enough people who celebrate the lunar new year that it's a fine idea for a product. I have zero issue with this
 

Phantom

Writer at Jeux.ca
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,446
Canada
I'd be fine if Secret Lair was available only in LGSes. Rather, WOTC is pushing the limit of what can be done while bypassing normal distributors. It kinda sucks to be honest.
 

Joe Molotov

Member
Oct 25, 2017
849
It's the Zodiac year of the Rat, every single gacha game i've been playing has some sort of new Ratgirl for the new year, there are enough people who celebrate the lunar new year that it's a fine idea for a product. I have zero issue with this

I guess, but it just feels like Wizards' typical strategy of hitting on new marketing idea and then immediately just milking the hell out of it with diminishing returns until everyone hates it. People like Masterpieces, so every set has Masterpieces. People like Planeswalkers, so now every pack has a Planeswalker. People liked Collector Boxes so now every set has Collector Boxes. Secret Lair was popular so now there's a new one every month.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,320
I guess, but it just feels like Wizards' typical strategy of hitting on new marketing idea and then immediately just milking the hell out of it with diminishing returns until everyone hates it. People like Masterpieces, so every set has Masterpieces. People like Planeswalkers, so now every pack has a Planeswalker. People liked Collector Boxes so now every set has Collector Boxes. Secret Lair was popular so now there's a new one every month.
This was always going to be in January, even if Secret Lair was a bomb of epic porportions that no one bought. They aren't using slush art for these, so they have to commission the art months ahead of release, probably longer than normal because I believe all 4 of these artists are new to Magic. Lunar New Year is the end of January, so while you technically could release this in June or something, it's kind of missing the point if you don't hit January
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,153
I'd be fine if Secret Lair was available only in LGSes. Rather, WOTC is pushing the limit of what can be done while bypassing normal distributors. It kinda sucks to be honest.
No thank you, LGSs got to gouge people on FTV. Secret Lair's distribution method still positions the game stores to have the best ability to capitalize on the sets while also allowing the hardcore player not to be screwed in any way. The first set of lairs have done incredibly well value-wise: if you bought 10 sets as any game store should've, you made a nice profit already, and it's only been a few months. The fact that stores are likely the only places besides the uber rich that bought more than 1 set actually really favors them. Any store claiming they're going out of business because Wizards sold a product to consumers, while ALSO selling it to them, that has appreciated 50% in 2 months is flat out in denial.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,615
No thank you, LGSs got to gouge people on FTV. Secret Lair's distribution method still positions the game stores to have the best ability to capitalize on the sets while also allowing the hardcore player not to be screwed in any way. The first set of lairs have done incredibly well value-wise: if you bought 10 sets as any game store should've, you made a nice profit already, and it's only been a few months. The fact that stores are likely the only places besides the uber rich that bought more than 1 set actually really favors them. Any store claiming they're going out of business because Wizards sold a product to consumers, while ALSO selling it to them, that has appreciated 50% in 2 months is flat out in denial.
Secret Lair's distribution method for one thing is extremely wasteful. Compare the FTV packaging that housed 15 cards usually to the secret lair packaging that has as little as 3 cards inside.

The issue with leaving LGS by the wayside is that outside of Kitchentable magic based around friend groups that's where people go to play EDH, to find other magic players and wotc over the last years has just been abandoning them. And these stores already operate on tiny margins.
If the smaller LGS in my city closed down I'd play a 10th of the paper magic I play and not buy 1-2 packs from the store every time I go there.

Some LGS were prize gouging but that was also kind of the intent for these products, a cash subsidy from wotc to stores. The MSRP on FTVs was extremely below the value of the cards included most of the time.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
This was always going to be in January, even if Secret Lair was a bomb of epic porportions that no one bought. They aren't using slush art for these, so they have to commission the art months ahead of release, probably longer than normal because I believe all 4 of these artists are new to Magic. Lunar New Year is the end of January, so while you technically could release this in June or something, it's kind of missing the point if you don't hit January
Jenn Ravenna has done some art before, notably The Eldest Reborn.
2019 really was a terrible year, wasn't it?

- The introduction of Pioneer as an online only format but got adopted by the community because Standard and Modern were in such a bad spot.

Am I forgetting something?
I mean, it also got adopted because it is legitimately a really fun format.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,153
Secret Lair's distribution method for one thing is extremely wasteful. Compare the FTV packaging that housed 15 cards usually to the secret lair packaging that has as little as 3 cards inside.

The issue with leaving LGS by the wayside is that outside of Kitchentable magic based around friend groups that's where people go to play EDH, to find other magic players and wotc over the last years has just been abandoning them. And these stores already operate on tiny margins.
If the smaller LGS in my city closed down I'd play a 10th of the paper magic I play and not buy 1-2 packs from the store every time I go there.

Some LGS were prize gouging but that was also kind of the intent for these products, a cash subsidy from wotc to stores. The MSRP on FTVs was extremely below the value of the cards included most of the time.
The packaging on the secret lairs is WAY less wasteful than FTV. FTV is just throwaway plastic and cardboard trash, the secret lair boxes are actually nice deck boxes. Nobody is chucking those things. Again, the stores are the ones MOST poised to take advantage of the highly limited nature of these products. Look at the prices online for the last secret lair set, they've appreciated VERY well for being a fucking month old. Stores are maxing out the purchases, not individuals.

EDIT: I should note, FTV cardboard boxes are ALSO nice, but they're not functional in any way, which is a major difference, and the plastic and dice are just fucking wasted plastic. They have more cards, but they're also much larger. It's a little silly to act like this large hardcover book sized box I have sitting next to me with a magnet inside is somehow ecologically friendly compared to the small stack of functional deckboxes from the secret lairs.

If we're worried about ecological waste from mtg, we should be staring down the entire notion of commons and booster boxes in general, but that doesn't seem to really be your issue.
 

Buttzerker

Powerhouse Protector / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,017
Polukranos Unchained + Mirror Shield + Hydra Growth is hilarious
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,499
Ikoria promo card
s0urn9oqwbb41.jpg


You can see Vivien
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,114
The Theros deck I'll be refining throughout the set:

//Creatures (19):
4 Tithe Taker
4 Orzhov Enforcer
3 Knight of the Ebon Legion
2 Vampire of the Dire Moon
3 Shepherd of the Flock
3 Kunoros, Hound of Athreos

//Non-creature Spells (7):
3 Doom Foretold
2 Heliod's Intervention
2 Treacherous Blessing

//Lands (24):
4 Godless Shrine
10 Plains
10 Swamp

This cut out a lot of my cards, just noticing. I think every enchantment creature. I'll have to wait until I'm home to post the proper list.
 

Buttzerker

Powerhouse Protector / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,017
I hope Garruk and Vivien meet on Ikoria


...yeah I'm still shipping MTG characters shut up
 

Buttzerker

Powerhouse Protector / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,017
I just want more Garruk and more Wolves. GIMME MORE WOLVES.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
I have a thirst for 2U Draw 3 Discard 1 with Birth of Meletis, Omen of the Sea and Dream Trawler
 

Camp1nCarl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,135
Doesn't seem to be as much posting as prior sets around pre-release time here, that's interesting. Pre-release in store today seemed pretty popular. I went 2-1; drew the rare Archon which did absolute work in limited. Otherwise between my 6 packs and 4 prize packs I didn't get any mythics, nor any gods/bombs. Thought for sure I was going to go 0-3 with my packs, but managed to scrounge together a BGW deck that had enough cheap enchantments, creatures and removal to go wide and remove any bombs opponents might play.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
NYC
Wooo! Went to my first prerelease and went 2-1 in 2HG on the back of a very bad mono black deck i built around dumping 3 garys on the board. Definitely won when I shouldn't have.
 

Claris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
146
I went to my first ever prerelease today, and went 4-0 without dropping a single game. o_o

RB Aggro putting in serious work here...
 

acheron_xl

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,450
MSN, WI
Shadowspear is so good in my mono R aggro deck. Great on Fervent Champion, great on Gingerbrute, great on Tectonic Giant. Just so good.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,153
Went 2-2.. got a nyxbloom ancient which was nice but I had zero playable bombs in any color which was rough. Still cobbled together two matches almost entirely on the back of the wrath spell and baiting some overextending
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
My favourite pre-release was canceled this time so I bought a sealed on Arena. Three losses within 20 minutes and I'm out. I feel just plain abused by this perversion of Magic.

Also I'm even more certain that whales are rerolling their sealed decks because there's no way a constructed level enchantment synergy deck is at 0-2.
 

JustinBailey

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
My favourite pre-release was canceled this time so I bought a sealed on Arena. Three losses within 20 minutes and I'm out. I feel just plain abused by this perversion of Magic.

Also I'm even more certain that whales are rerolling their sealed decks because there's no way a constructed level enchantment synergy deck is at 0-2.
As a 25 year veteran, I try to stay quiet in person because I have super strong feelings about Arena and they aren't the majority in the community right now (though they are slowly becoming that way I think). But my belief is that Arena is awful, and I am tired of hearing about it, and I am tired of its effect on magic (except for learners). So I basically dont talk about or encourage it and am hoping its just becoming a distant testing ground for paper despite WOTCs best efforts. Paper magic is just more fun than digital magic - and its not even close. And the digital structure of play and the different game that Arena is, and the economy are all fucked and it isnt even close to fun for me.

I mean look at your experience - in 20 minutes you were done with your sealed and it was a dumbpocalypse of digital hegemony. Yesterday I spent 8 hours at 2 prereleases and had a strictly better experience despite the massive relative time commitment. In the first, I had so many amazing matches that culminated in a finals match at table 1 where my opponents deck and play was actually able to beat me after I resolved Kiora Bests the Sea God during one game, only for me to use a ground level strategy to beat him during the other 2 games in the match and rank 1st of 66 players because of it. In the second I played a 5 color monstrosity that had a winning record but not THE winning record. Both experiences are social things Id never trade for digital, and would never be recreated there, and I dont give a shit that I spent extra time.

It is just night and day - and for all the extra time I spend on paper I wouldnt change a thing.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
JustinBailey I keep getting suckered by Arena but you're100% right. Every time I go play paper Magic I have a great time. On Arena I'm rarely happy after playing, even if I win a lot. The only unreservedly good thing about Arena is figuring out a new deck. The vagaries of chance are just too much on an anonymous game client, with no social element to assure you everyone has their ups and downs.

I need to find a pioneer paper tournament.
 

JustinBailey

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
JustinBailey I keep getting suckered by Arena but you're100% right. Every time I go play paper Magic I have a great time. On Arena I'm rarely happy after playing, even if I win a lot. The only unreservedly good thing about Arena is figuring out a new deck. The vagaries of chance are just too much on an anonymous game client, with no social element to assure you everyone has their ups and downs.

I need to find a pioneer paper tournament.
Haha, I am always amazed when someone can say what I am trying to say but much more concisely. Thats what it boils down to - feelings after the event in question.
 
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