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MafiEra Mafia |OT| The Day of the Blargonauts

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Sorian

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Fran said:
What? You are misunderstanding.

CeeCee posted this before shooting Stan:



And I quoted his post and asked why the paranoia and why he though that it would be a very, very bad idea to shoot him:



But I was talking about how that post seemed really paranoic to me and how he tried to pass his role as a much more beneficial to town instead of what he really was. But I never said that we should lynch him at the time.

Too me that first post doesn't make sense for a townie. It could be scum or a neutral but not a townie.
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Hmm, ok, I think I see your thought process. It's not really that weird to me for town to post that though. Most people think they are important when they are a PR even if said PR can have negative utility. I assumed he was a cop or doc from that post on my catch up but to find out he was a day vig wasn't exactly out of left field.
 
OP
OP
The Bear

The Bear

Forest Animal
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,194
ck4xae2o9h
 
Brazil

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,404
São Paulo, Brazil
Right now, CeeCee being scum or neutral doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. All of it screams of bored townie doing stupid shit.

A scum dayvig could simply use that shot from the shadows and let the blame fall elsewhere. I'd be getting a lot more scrutiny if the shooter hadn't revealed itself, for example.

A neutral dayvig's main focus would always be preservation, and so revealing that they took a shot before knowing the result of the flip doesn't make any sense either. Besides, Ketkat seemed way more at risk of being shot than CeeCee at that point, with how the conversation was going, and so I doubt a neutral dayvig would even feel that compelled to move like that.

The simplest explanation I can find is that CeeCee, for whatever reason, thought Stan was scum, and decided to shoot him in the off chance of getting it right. That would take him off of most people's scumread lists without him having to actually present arguments and whatnot... which doesn't seem to be his strongest suit from what I've seen so far.
 
Fran

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Ketkat said:
Why did you decide to announce that you were going to kill Stanley before it went through? Like, you could have just done this through PM's and no one would have known who specifically did it. Were you that confident that Stanley was scum?
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He already soft claimed before the shot so Stan wouldn't lynch him (even when there was no indication that he would) and Stan didn't liked it.
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
Alright, I'm all caught up except for one detail (sorry, I only read like the last 5 pages). Had CeeCee claimed before their warning? Why did they claim if their kill command isn't public? I assume they didn't, I'm just checking because I might have missed something.
 
Dr. Monkey

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I will say a few things before I skedaddle:

1. This is the towniest I have ever seen cabot since my first game and uh, I don't know how to feel about it. I often struggle to read cabot but I got nothing but town town town. For now, I trust it, because I think he's making some good insights, but we'll have to see how they play out, I guess. Today I would place him as my top town.
2. I spent a lot of time thinking about Fantomas and I am gonna come down on town there, too, for one big reason: the vitriolic reactions to any possible questions that he might not be town. I get that, too, that HOW DARE THEY I AM THE TOWNIEST THOSE ASSHOLES feeling sometimes and while it can be faked, if it is, I think the scaffolding will become clear. So for now, I consider Fantomas town.

I probably won't do full text reads otherwise today because there's too much chaos but I'll at least make a list well before day end. I really don't know how to feel about the CeeCee play. It could have been town panic, but then I just don't understand shooting Stan. I don't think it was scum. I lean more toward neutral with some weird wincon but I gotta think about it.
 
Fandorin

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
I see the following scenarios in which leaving CeeCee alive today could blow up and backfire:

a) CeeCee is scum aligned and still has shot(s) left
CeeCee wouldn't get night killed and would be still be able to use another shot tomorrow, since the threat of getting lynched if he didn't follow the thread's orders wouldn't matter anyway and scum would get an extra kill before town got to lynch him.

b) CeeCee is neutral and his wincon is not self preservation
Doesn't make much sense for CeeCee to just call out his shot before killing Stan like that, considering he wasn't really his primary suspect until he decided to be coy about it prior to his shot. For that reason, maybe CeeCee's wincon is that he must kill a specific target role, like "kill nin". If that is true, he could possibly ignore our orders and just kill someone other than the one the thread dictates.

In my opinion, case a) doesn't cut out considering the attention CeeCee brought to himself before shooting. Like already said, he could've just shoot Stan from behind the scum chat among his cahoots and just be done with it. Plus Scum Day Vigilante 2 or more shots sounds way too harsh, even for a 27-man game like this.
 
Brazil

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
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Oct 24, 2017
18,404
São Paulo, Brazil
Faddy

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,133
Um ok. That was something to read through.

I kind of want CeeCee to shoot again before we do anything about it. If it was CeeCee who shot Stan then he is probably town but it could be a 1 shot Mafia day vig with either CeeCee self saving or being saved by a team mate.

The obvious scenario is CeeCee is as claimed which is most likely to be true.
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
I'll say I can't fault the policy-lynchers/"pearl-clutchers" post-Stan shot because I probably would have reacted the same way in the moment. Those that continue to argue for it are either tunneling or trying to take advantage of the shitty shot, but as an immediate reaction it's NAI to me.

But ultimately it does make sense to me that it's unlikely CeeCee is scum even if they're lying about the rest of their role, and particularly considering they both soft-claimed (according to Fran, I haven't checked this) and attributed the shot to themselves as they did it.
 
Pirate Bae

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,792
??
Oh my god Grizzly that was my Game of Thrones role :(

I wanted to see it used so bad :( :(
 
Fran

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Sorian said:
(looking at you Fran and Flux.
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I said that I would vote HvV tonight. What I said about Love Boat is that it could be risky to leave it until the end of the game when a double lynch and a double kill could hurt us much more.

I also find interesting about that modifier is that we will likely have pairs but with mixed aligments (it wouldn't make sense otherwise) so it could be interesting to see how people react when the people they are claiming to scum reads are paired with another player (I'm thinking a scum member pushing for a townie who ends up partnered to another scum).

Fireblend said:
(according to Fran, I haven't checked this
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This is the soft claim:

CeeCee said:
Okay, a warning:

It would be a very, very bad idea for town to try and lynch me today.
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It isn't a vig soft claim as much as a role softclaim.
 
Sorian

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Fran said:
I said that I would vote HvV tonight. What I said about Love Boat is that it could be risky to leave it until the end of the game when a double lynch and a double kill could hurt us much more.

I also find interesting about that modifier is that we will likely have pairs but with mixed aligments (it wouldn't make sense otherwise) so it could be interesting to see how people react when the people they are claiming to scum reads are paired with another player (I'm thinking a scum member pushing for a townie who ends up partnered to another scum).



This is the soft claim:



It isn't a vig soft claim as much as a role softclaim.
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You can remove yourself from that shade from me. You explained in a cross post there that there was some communication breakdown between you and I so it doesn't really apply anymore since you aren't/weren't pushing for a CeeCee lynch as much as I thought you were.
 
Pirate Bae

Pirate Bae

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The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,792
??
CeeCee right now screams self-preservation town to me, although I'm not sure why he didn't just soft-claim or full-claim instead of actually using his shot.

It's not like a day shot vig is unheard of as town. It would be considered and discussed, at the very minimum.
 
malus

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
Let's say CeeCee is scum: What has he gained from announcing the kill? While he was a top contender for the lynch, I don't think it was set in stone yet and he could have killed someone anyway and possibly have stayed hidden. With the situation now, he is so much in the spotlight, that any wrong move will get him lynched. So at most he will get one more day kill that isn't sanctioned by the mob. If he had killed secretly and someone else I think he could have sparked a completely different discussion, without going into the spotlight himself.

Let's say CeeCee is neutral: The win condition would probably be to kill a set amount of people, or one specific player. Again he will only be able to get one unsanctioned shot, so his best bet in that case would be to follow the consensus. Mafia would definitely not want to keep such a role around making his play again very bad. Similar to the scum case, he would have been much better off shooting secretly and probably somebody else.

While there would definitely have been better plays as town, it really is the only way I see this making any sense at all.
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
Pirate Bae said:
CeeCee right now screams self-preservation town to me, although I'm not sure why he didn't just soft-claim or full-claim instead of actually using his shot.

It's not like a day shot vig is unheard of as town. It would be considered and discussed, at the very minimum.
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Why even claim at all? It's not like the day deadline was close, and they've posted since, so it's not like they had to leave and were afraid of not being able to defend themselves before getting lynched. It didn't seem Stan was leaning towards turboing early either. CeeCee, what gives? Were you that sure about Stan being scum?
 
Brazil

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,404
São Paulo, Brazil
Fran said:
Do you think that the post asking Stan to not shoot him is from a townie?
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Through elimination process, yes. Where would that post fit into this?

Brazil said:
A scum dayvig could simply use that shot from the shadows and let the blame fall elsewhere. I'd be getting a lot more scrutiny if the shooter hadn't revealed itself, for example.

A neutral dayvig's main focus would always be preservation, and so revealing that they took a shot before knowing the result of the flip doesn't make any sense either. Besides, Ketkat seemed way more at risk of being shot than CeeCee at that point, with how the conversation was going, and so I doubt a neutral dayvig would even feel that compelled to move like that.
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Fran

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
CeeCee was paranoid about getting hit and soft claimed an important role so Stan wouldn't shoot (even when he didn't say he would). Stan didn't buyed it and said that maybe he should shoot him. CeeCee straight up kills him.

Then CeeCee claims that he scumreaded Stan even when he never mentioned him before. Even if that was true, does it make sense to kill the player that the majority of the game thinks it's their most trusted townie? Wouldn't anyone think that maybe they could be wrong? He could shoot another scum lean and prove town to prove that he was a vig. Instead he shoot the one who majority voted as a leader.

I don't believe that CeeCee is town. He is either scum or a neutral at best.
 
Sorian

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
[insert snarky tunnel gif here]

Logic be damned, CeeCee could have not claimed at all but whatever, he did and he's scummy.
 
Fran

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Brazil said:
Through elimination process, yes. Where would that post fit into this?
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But he didn't claimed vig. He just said that it would be a bad idea to kill him. It could mean doctor, cop, whatever.

Maybe he though that he could get away with it but Stan said that he didn't believed him.
 
Kyanrute

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
For record keeping: who here is comfortable, at this point, letting CeeCee both live and do as he wishes with his shots. Many people wish to see him live but I am unsure if that wish has the condition of following orders or not.
 
Pirate Bae

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,792
??
Another thing to note: CeeCee didn't need to claim at all. His actions weren't revealed to the thread. He could of shot Stan, said nothing about it, and then left the rest of us scratching our heads.

By saying something, it tells me that he's at least trying to be somewhat transparent, and that makes me lean town.
 
Fanto

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Kyanrute said:
For record keeping: who here is comfortable, at this point, letting CeeCee both live and do as he wishes with his shots. Many people wish to see him live but I am unsure if that wish has the condition of following orders or not.
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I'm fine with both of these things, yeah. I'm falling more on the side of this being a poor Town play from CeeCee rather than some kind of Scum Gambit or a Neutral, since I think those would both be handled in a lot sneakier ways than this was.
 
Brazil

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,404
São Paulo, Brazil
Fran said:
But he didn't claimed vig. He just said that it would be a bad idea to kill him. It could mean doctor, cop, whatever.

Maybe he though that he could get away with it but Stan said that he didn't believed him.
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Fireblend said:
He said "try to lynch". It did sound like a threat to me.
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That was a threat. There's no questioning that.

And that threat is something that doesn't make sense for scum!CeeCee or neutral!CeeCee to make, as I've said before. I get that it's some nuclear-grade dumb shit and it's hard to wrap your head around it coming from a townie, but the alternatives are even more farfetched.
 
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