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Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Do you know that Monkey also said that she didn't wanted the leader position too, right?
Yep, I would prefer not. I would probably be very flip-floppy about it and anxious and yeah, not into it. Especially now that my top scumread dropped and got replaced by CeeCee. I wouldn't like, throw a fit and refuse it, but I'd rather it go to someone else so I can see what they do with it.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
Do you know that Monkey also said that she didn't wanted the leader position too, right?
Ah, did she? I hadn't noticed. I dunno if that changes my read, as she hasn't lingered on that much evidently and seems to be earnest in her posts. I know that's a bit unfair to you since you've also been pretty active but her posts stick out more to me.
 
OP
OP
The Bear

The Bear

Forest Animal
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,194
==== DAY 1 VOTES ====
Day Start

sorian (3 votes)
terraforce - #104
rac - #510
fireblend - #692

fandorin (3 votes)
brazil - #172
dr. monkey - #565
thechuggernaut - #576

blargonaut (2 votes)
faddy - #94
blargonaut - #329
sophia - #376 #389

kyanrute (1 votes)
cabot - #657

geno (1 votes)
geno - #77

fluxwavez (1 votes)
zubz - #101 #582
sophia - #132 #376

ceecee (1 votes)
ceecee - #670

cabot (1 votes)
kawl - #591

fireblend (1 votes)
fandorin - #324

natiko (1 votes)
natiko - #79

Post Counts:
blargonaut: 72 sorian: 43 fran: 42 cabot: 41 sophia: 40 geno: 39 dr. monkey: 37 pirate bae: 31 terraforce: 30 natiko: 29 fandorin: 26 fluxwavez: 22 brazil: 20 faddy: 18 fireblend: 17 thechuggernaut: 15 stanleypalmtree: 12 grizzly: 11 zubz: 11 kawl: 11 ketkat: 10 rac: 10 ceecee: 9 kyanrute: 8 fantomas: 7 turmoil7: 7 giant panda: 4 shadowswordmaster: 3 malus: 2

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
No, it won't give us anything useful and will waste our time in the following days. Because instead of people voting for a lynch they are voting for someone they trust, meaning they can avoid putting their money where their mouth is. Aside from that, the next days the game will revolve around the leaders' choice, which probably will be a town lynch anyway. Normal day 1's are fine for town, if they weren't there would be a lot more no lynches than there are now. You just gotta play it smart.
I mean, do you think everyone's just going to fold their arms on Day 1.5 and not try to influence the vote at all? We can have both scenarios.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Can someone explain why they are voting Fandorin?

I did, but I'll do it again. He felt pretty close to where I was last night, and that gave me a good feeling. I think he'd also listen to the room but be able to act relatively decisively, two qualities I want (best of all worlds). I've also played with him as both town and scum and I like that perspective. cabot's post on him has given me a bit of pause, though.

I'm leaning Stan but Stan's timezone gives me a hair of pause, whether that's fair or not.

Also, vote for me as leader! I promise to bring my unique blend of raw talent, raw passion, raw sexuality, and raw herring

No. Love you, CeeCee, but you've got a hole not of your own making to dig out of. I won't vote a scumread for leader simply because I fear it will end up giving them some invisible cred in the eyes of the majority.

I would also like to point out the vote by ShadowSwordMaster. He is new to the game and goes directly to vote for Terraforce without any reasoning. As a new player I'd expect him to first watch a bit to see what's going on and all. I don't want to call it a collusion with Terra just yet, but it does give me a weird feeling in that direction. Also so far Fantomas hasn't really convinced me otherwise.
This is not a bad observation. We have no idea how or why SSM voted, if it was real or jokey or what, or his experience level, but it does give a reason to keep have an eye on Fantomas.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
A few things to note:

1) This is a fairly unique D1 situation, and one which personally i've been able to jump in immediately and begin trying to solve instead of a period of shitposting. If anything, this structure puts more pressure on having good reasoning for a lynch. It's hard to compare to other games.
2) I can kind of see your point regarding confidence to wade through the bullshit from players you struggle to read, but this is indeed a 27 player game. There are over 20 other people here that can discuss things with you and help you reach a conclusion.
3) You're afraid of Sorian and Monkey because they are good at this game, but you're ignoring the benefits of them being town and I am struggling to see why.

I'm ignoring the benefits of them being town because it's Day 1. No one is town in my eyes and I don't trust any of you. I'm looking for stuff that stands out and makes me trust some people less, but if Monkey/Sorian/Blarg are all town, then it'll be easier to see that later on without handing the reigns to the day to them. Like, everyone has a list of people that they don't feel confident handing this over to, this isn't unique to just me.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
Trying to influence the vote isn't the same as voting for someone, because in the end it's the leaders' choice and not our choice.
I mean, it's hardly ever that everyone votes for the same person on D1. There's people whose votes don't end up as part of the lynch anyway. There's going to be accountability either way, and I'd be suspicious of anyone who didn't make it clear who they'd vote for without the leader mechanic. The same as if we were playing a normal D1.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Alright, in front of a keyboard for the first time since the game started. So far I like cabot, Sorian, Monkey, I think Blarg is making a genuine effort, I'm just not sure what that effort is going towards yet :P I'm a bit iffy on Sophia/CeeCee and the people who outright claimed not to want the leader position because that reeks of self-preservation to me (I think Flux and Fran? Dunno if someone else said it so explicitly)

I'm curious about Fandorin 's vote on me. Was it a joke vote (I mean, it must be right, I hadn't said anything of value when it was made) and why has it stayed this long?

Vote: Sorian

I already explained my rationale on Sorian. I might change my mind, but I'd like someone who knows they can't weasel out by obeying a majority or weighing the room and voting for someone most agree with without it going very much against their playstyle.

It was a joke vote.
UNVOTE
I normally vote only when I have made up my mind, since it's not like me to keep changing my votes. Pressure votes don't seem to work much on D1 and even less in this game.

If I had to, I'd vote for cabot or Monkey right now.

The thing about the leader justifying his reads on meta would take us back to square one?

I think that's a really simplistic view. No matter how much meta justification the leader says that he has if he makes a choice without a valid reason he should be scrutinized.

When people like Monkey and Ketkat says that they won't vote for Sorian because he could be a good scum. It seems to me that they are afraid to vote Sorian as it would give him ultimate power, when it's just a D1 lynch that he would have to justify and allow us to make a better read on him.

My point is that meta isn't and shouldn't be the deciding factor here. You're a veteran player that knows a lot about the playerbase from previous games, but still wouldn't care for being picked as the leader since you "don't trust yourself with your early D1 reads".

On Monkey and Ketkat, both got a lot of flak for their inputs on Sorian already, but while I can't say much on Ketkat (it was pretty weird post to me as well), Monkey seemed wary of scum! Sorian since he could, in theory, talk his way out of a bad mislynch pick as the leader today and continue in the game without lasting suspicions. I'm sure she will add on this.
 

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
a general complaint about the quadrillion pages grrr, though it is nice to have content

Are you saying you want a no lynch?

The opposite. I wish everyone would, even if they abhor the idea of the leader, do the prepwork for the position. Instead of turning the position down, say what you want and vote accordingly. If you can't get the position, try to get someone who shares your views into it. Force cohesion between opinion and action to prevent hiding.
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
I would like to hear more from Kyan, Rac and Panda.

And I think AB is the only one that haven't posted yet.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
a general complaint about the quadrillion pages grrr, though it is nice to have content



The opposite. I wish everyone would, even if they abhor the idea of the leader, do the prepwork for the position. Instead of turning the position down, say what you want and vote accordingly. If you can't get the position, try to get someone who shares your views into it. Force cohesion between opinion and action to prevent hiding.
I like where you're going. Please expand on how this looks for everyone.
 

cabot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,775
Glasgow, Scotland
I'm ignoring the benefits of them being town because it's Day 1. No one is town in my eyes and I don't trust any of you. I'm looking for stuff that stands out and makes me trust some people less, but if Monkey/Sorian/Blarg are all town, then it'll be easier to see that later on without handing the reigns to the day to them. Like, everyone has a list of people that they don't feel confident handing this over to, this isn't unique to just me.

I think I'll stop here, since you seem set. I will say that there's nothing wrong with looking for both town and scum at this stage in the game.

I'm not convinced of your reasons for excluding them is why I'm going in on you instead of others.
 

cabot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,775
Glasgow, Scotland
a general complaint about the quadrillion pages grrr, though it is nice to have content



The opposite. I wish everyone would, even if they abhor the idea of the leader, do the prepwork for the position. Instead of turning the position down, say what you want and vote accordingly. If you can't get the position, try to get someone who shares your views into it. Force cohesion between opinion and action to prevent hiding.

so who do you want to shoot, friend?

you've got my vote after all.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
My convo with Geno doesn't leave me with much confidence on him. It feels like he's trying to avoid playing the game the way it was designed, and I don't know why anyone would be trying to go against the mechanics at this point in time. He's so into unusual mechanics in his own games, this leader thing should seem tame in comparison. It's not explicitly anti-town and honestly D1 is such a crapshoot usually that I'm ok with it if anything to make it more fun and interesting.

Is Geno the only one arguing in favor of ignoring the mechanic entirely and hosting a normal vote with a "trusted" leader?
 

Geno

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,812
Thessaloniki
I mean, it's hardly ever that everyone votes for the same person on D1. There's people whose votes don't end up as part of the lynch anyway. There's going to be accountability either way, and I'd be suspicious of anyone who didn't make it clear who they'd vote for without the leader mechanic. The same as if we were playing a normal D1.
If you believe what you're saying then there's no point in NOT treating this like normal day 1. Like I said the leader part only slows us down.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
I do believe people should be more clear on where they stand, since the leader mechanic can and probably will create some cover for scum.

We had a few passing mentions on Sophia as a "scum read" but not much substance on it. Having something like that rampant today will bite us later.
 

cabot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,775
Glasgow, Scotland
My convo with Geno doesn't leave me with much confidence on him. It feels like he's trying to avoid playing the game the way it was designed, and I don't know why anyone would be trying to go against the mechanics at this point in time. He's so into unusual mechanics in his own games, this leader thing should seem tame in comparison. It's not explicitly anti-town and honestly D1 is such a crapshoot usually that I'm ok with it if anything to make it more fun and interesting.

Is Geno the only one arguing in favor of ignoring the mechanic entirely and hosting a normal vote with a "trusted" leader?

malus threw his hat into the ring earlier:

In the end the leader has to make the choice of who to lynch though so we should put some thought into who has that kind of power. But in the end I agree: Once the leader is elected we should put up a pseudo vote like a normal day 1 with the only difference of the leader having the final say.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
My convo with Geno doesn't leave me with much confidence on him. It feels like he's trying to avoid playing the game the way it was designed, and I don't know why anyone would be trying to go against the mechanics at this point in time. He's so into unusual mechanics in his own games, this leader thing should seem tame in comparison. It's not explicitly anti-town and honestly D1 is such a crapshoot usually that I'm ok with it if anything to make it more fun and interesting.

Is Geno the only one arguing in favor of ignoring the mechanic entirely and hosting a normal vote with a "trusted" leader?
I'm concerned about this both being Geno's primary focus and the very vanilla approach to it. His scum reads? He put them out there but where's the followup? Where's anything else? Like I don't mind a vanilla approach to the mechanic (mine skews that way, more than others), but defending that position can't be all that you do.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
malus threw his hat into the ring earlier:
Thanks. I'm not against doing a pseudo vote; not making our lynch choices explicit would be heaven for scum. What I'm against is choosing someone with the understanding that they'll lynch whoever the majority wants to lynch under threat of being lynched themselves. I'm not sure if that's what Malus means, he does say he wants the leader "having the final say".
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
a general complaint about the quadrillion pages grrr, though it is nice to have content



The opposite. I wish everyone would, even if they abhor the idea of the leader, do the prepwork for the position. Instead of turning the position down, say what you want and vote accordingly. If you can't get the position, try to get someone who shares your views into it. Force cohesion between opinion and action to prevent hiding.
When you catch-up, I'd appreciate a few reads from you kyan. We are missing some more wild ideas in here.
 

Fireblend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,454
Costa Rica
Thanks. I'm not against doing a pseudo vote; not making our lynch choices explicit would be heaven for scum. What I'm against is choosing someone with the understanding that they'll lynch whoever the majority wants to lynch under threat of being lynched themselves. I'm not sure if that's what Malus means, he does say he wants the leader "having the final say".
Clarify if possible malus
 

Geno

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,812
Thessaloniki
I'm concerned about this both being Geno's primary focus and the very vanilla approach to it. His scum reads? He put them out there but where's the followup? Where's anything else? Like I don't mind a vanilla approach to the mechanic (mine skews that way, more than others), but defending that position can't be all that you do.
You are expecting way too much out of someone less than 24h into day 1.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I've got to bounce for work stuff, but for now:

Sophia-CeeCee is where I would have put most of my suspicion, but that's now pending.
I think the Terraforce-SSM/Fantomas connection is worth watching, from malus's post.
KetKat didn't inspire a lot of confidence with digging in on the same position, but she's not the only one stagnant and talking about mechanics and not much else. I know she was asked, but you can answer and move on; I wanna see forward motion. Same for Geno. That's my current suspect pool.
Would really like to see more from rac. rac not talking makes me worried about the dope ass blob.

Feeling townish about Sorian, cabot, Stan, maybe Pirate Bae. Febe's moving up in that. Maybe Brazil and Fando, possibly Natiko. I figure I'll get a good read on Natiko eventually, anyway, but less certain now. Fran, probably. Kyanrute pending.

vote: StanleyPalmtree
why not
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
See I don't see why we have to make a big deal out of the election thing, the method I mentioned solves everything nicely, we forget the leader part and act like this is a normal day of mafia. It's weird how everyone is all like "wouldn't trust him, wouldn't trust her, maybe trust that person", if you don't want to trust them then don't, you can only trust your vote.

It's not a normal day of mafia though. Playing pretend is disengenuous, we have a completely different vote to consider first and the second half of the day plays differently.

Do you know that Monkey also said that she didn't wanted the leader position too, right?
Yep, I would prefer not. I would probably be very flip-floppy about it and anxious and yeah, not into it. Especially now that my top scumread dropped and got replaced by CeeCee. I wouldn't like, throw a fit and refuse it, but I'd rather it go to someone else so I can see what they do with it.

Quoted Fran first but then Monkey said something where I could quote her directly so just left both. By your own admission, wouldn't you be the perfect leader candidate though? You're a strong presence but not so much the natural leader considering you're worried about flip flopping a lot on your choice. So sure, you wouldn't get a read out of this whole lead mechanic (reason why I'm not exactly jumping as high as I can to get voted) but it would give a lot to reading you for others wouldn't it?

Trying to influence the vote isn't the same as voting for someone, because in the end it's the leaders' choice and not our choice.

Until it does become your choice if the leader just goes with majority but then, you talking like this now gives you some deniability later so maybe that's your point.

——-

I know CeeCee probably didn't catch up and that's why the posts were all jokey but not feeling much better there that I was with Sophia.
 

Geno

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,812
Thessaloniki
It's not a normal day of mafia though. Playing pretend is disengenuous, we have a completely different vote to consider first and the second half of the day plays differently.
It is if you want it to be. You don't, and like I said, that's fine, I'm not scum reading people not agreeing with me, I'm just trying to convince everyone that it's the best course of action.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
You are expecting way too much out of someone less than 24h into day 1.
Really? Cause lots of other people have managed it. You have scumreads, by your own admission. Do something about them.

Quoted Fran first but then Monkey said something where I could quote her directly so just left both. By your own admission, wouldn't you be the perfect leader candidate though? You're a strong presence but not so much the natural leader considering you're worried about flip flopping a lot on your choice. So sure, you wouldn't get a read out of this whole lead mechanic (reason why I'm not exactly jumping as high as I can to get voted) but it would give a lot to reading you for others wouldn't it?
No, not really, and here's why: because with me, specifically, this has been a historical issue. I am wishy-washy, and it gets scumread. So here's how I see this going down. I get picked as leader, I hem and haw and agonize and sweat and freak out, thanks to legit anxiety disorder and personality for the best combo, and unless we/I am lucky and hit scum, my personhood gets read as scummy no matter what else I do, and that becomes a talking point for the rest of the game. It might not get me lynched, but I'm gonna have to hear about it constantly, and it's a distraction to me and others. It's not a real read based on the game, or my alignment; it's a read based on the way the community perceives a particular behavior, no matter who's doing it.

I'd rather not. I've been down that road even without the mechanic.

Anyway, back later.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
It is if you want it to be. You don't, and like I said, that's fine, I'm not scum reading people not agreeing with me, I'm just trying to convince everyone that it's the best course of action.

I have a strong will in these games, but I don't think I'm going to will a change in the rules. This isn't a case of "it is if you want it to be"

——

Saw your response Dr. Monkey and noted, don't teally have anything to add at this time.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,133

I mean it is obviously a joke but honestly I would rather give it to Blarg and have him shoot than to elect someone and try to overly control it. I like Sorian's attitude the most. Whoever wins should listen but trying to please the crowd is not what the leader should do.

So I'm ruling out people who don't want to use the override as an override.