MafiEra Mafia |OT| The Day of the Blargonauts

[cabot]

A night kill is dictated completely by scum, attributing this as an extra NK downplays the fact that discussion will be required before and after the kill, and we know who did it.

also just as scumSorian and scumMonkey can be so dangerous to us, there's no counter point that townSorian and townMonkey could be pretty helpful cause they can offer good reads.

 

[Geno]

She's not new though.

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I meant relatively new, I believe she joined in somewhere around April. Also the 3 posts you quoted are NAI, they make no sense and scum or town Ketkat could've posted them.

 

[Sorian]

Didn't quote anything in particular but Stan is reading town to me. Would vote for leader there. I did quote two things having to do with leader below so I'll talk more in those.

I didn't think it was that one, but I wanna say it was near that time frame. Hell, I don't know, I just remember being convinced you were scummy for similar reasons to what Terra posted, so I wanted to put it out there.

Also a firm anti-Sorian position. I don't wanna lynch him, but I don't want to put him in charge, and am flabbergasted at the number of people who do. Meme or not, the fact is that Sorian is very good at looking like he should be trusted against common sense.

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That's a nice digivice you've got there, may I?

Sure, in a general sense it'll never perfectly follow a D1 vote because you're never going to have the constant vote shuffling around you might see to end an actual day. But I'm still struggling to see what insight people are expecting to pull out of the leader's lynch in the scenario where they have no imperative to follow the majority (unless they actually hit scum). I don't see anyone using it as anything but a way to scum read the leader. "Oh they voted someone completely unexpected, clearly scum." "Oh they went with the consensus choice even though they didn't have to - clearly scum that was fine with the choice and didn't want to rock the boat." Etc.

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The leader mechanic is always going to lead to lazy scum reads short of someone sniping scum over town in a case where the majority was voting between two people. We can be better than allowing simple reads of "well, they lynched town so they must be scum"

Monkey answered this question, and I would like more to hop on it.


What are you all expecting to gain from a leader and their subsequent vote?


I'm sort of with Monkey's suggestion of throwing someone in who isn't typically a leader, though I'm trying to think of a person who I could trust to make a sensible decision as well.


Would I want a leader who would choose their target based off of other people's feelings on votes?

No, frankly. That's an easy way to downsize their own decision and reads.



So my current position is going for someone who I don't particularly townread strongly, but trust enough to avoid being completely reckless.


For this reason I am conflicted on Flux and Sophia. I feel Sophia wouldn't really give me what I want though, she'd defer to the damned majority.



Right now, I'd personally shoot Ketkat, she's not done anything but give me red flags. I can see Sorian's point on Sophia, it's a little early to cry foul on Blarg, and he mostly plays by his own rules day 1 (unless he's up for the chop).

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First and foremost, I just want to get someone I think is town in that spot. For all this talk of getting someone who has never been leader in there, the whole thing is kind of a loss if we just elect scum. The secondary concern is more the reads aspect. Going back to the Monkey post on all this, sure, people will give reads anyway but there's a difference between throwing shade in reads and actually have to drop the hammer on someone. Getting more specific on what to look for is really whatever past that, there's so many different permutations of what could happen that's it's hard to list out all thoughts without at least seeing who we are talking about.

Everyone who's presently not voting for themselves as a default state should be high on your suspicions. Breaking ties tells

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Not necessarily to Blarg's joke here but I'm not even sure I'm voting for myself. I definitely will if I end up in the running still closer to the end and the competition sucks reads-wise but I do lose a way to read someone else if I'm elected so there's a con to it as well.

 

[Sorian]

I haven't played with Ketkat iirc, but I didn't notice anything extremely weird from her posts thus far, she is new and new players might stay dumb stuff like "hey let's RNG lynch day 1", it's completely normal and imo not a reason to lynch her.

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This is super downplaying, she's not new and she also fooled a ton of people on her debut. Some of that could have been new player affect but she lasted awhile. (Looking forward to be told that game wasn't her debut either, I don't actually know but I think it was)

 

[The Bear]

==== DAY 1 VOTES ====
Day Start

fandorin (3 votes)
brazil - #172
dr. monkey - #565
thechuggernaut - #576

blargonaut (2 votes)
faddy - #94
blargonaut - #329
sophia - #376 #389

sorian (2 votes)
terraforce - #104
rac - #510

terraforce (1 votes)
shadowswordmaster - #85

geno (1 votes)
geno - #77

fluxwavez (1 votes)
zubz - #101 #582
sophia - #132 #376
sophia - #389

cabot (1 votes)
kawl - #591

fireblend (1 votes)
fandorin - #324

natiko (1 votes)
natiko - #79

Post Counts:
blargonaut: 67 sorian: 42 sophia: 40 fran: 38 geno: 35 dr. monkey: 34 cabot: 34 pirate bae: 31 terraforce: 30 natiko: 29 fandorin: 23 fluxwavez: 22 brazil: 20 faddy: 18 thechuggernaut: 15 fireblend: 13 zubz: 11 stanleypalmtree: 11 kawl: 11 rac: 10 grizzly: 9 ketkat: 9 kyanrute: 8 fantomas: 7 turmoil7: 7 giant panda: 4 shadowswordmaster: 3

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

 

[Geno]

This is super downplaying, she's not new and she also fooled a ton of people on her debut. Some of that could have been new player affect but she lasted awhile. (Looking forward to be told that game wasn't her debut either, I don't actually know but I think it was)

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Ok interesting, was not aware she has fooled people before.

 

[cabot]

VOTE: Kyanrute

have some red in your life.

 

[The Bear]

CeeCee has replaced Sophia

Please welcome CeeCee.

+ The Replacement list order has been altered. The original listing was incorrect.

 

[cabot]

Can I choose to not welcome CeeCee?

 

[CeeCee]

ON YOUR FEET FOR YOUR QUEEN

 

[CeeCee]

Cab I'm banning you from the UKPol Discord for that

 

[CeeCee]

Also, vote for me as leader! I promise to bring my unique blend of raw talent, raw passion, raw sexuality, and raw herring

 

[Sorian]

Can I choose to not welcome CeeCee?

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.

 

[cabot]

Cab I'm banning you from the UKPol Discord for that

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you're really selling your ability to lead here.


Some brief thoughts of the game so far would be nice, rawman.

 

[CeeCee]

Also also, I'm going on a flight in an hours time which will last for about 14 hours, so yay for that.

I will use that hour to pretend to read the thread before presenting a series of badly reasoned hot takes.

 

[CeeCee]

you're really selling your ability to lead here.


Some brief thoughts of the game so far would be nice, rawman.

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See above: haven't read the thread yet, may not be fully caught up before I go incommunicado.

You're definitely scum though.

 

[cabot]

I thought you had to spend an hour presented badly reasoned hot takes?!

 

[CeeCee]

That's a well reasoned hot take.

Get Rekt Scrub

 

[Stantastic]

hah, nope.

im out, unconscious time.

later nerds o/

 

[CeeCee]

VOTE:CeeCee

Don't you want me baby

 

[Blargonaut]

I think a lot of you are misunderstanding what we have to do here. It's not like this leadership is a permanent position, it's just for D1. We should aim to elect someone who could read opinion but will not just follow blindly as it's a waste and he must be able to find suspicious behavior with low info.

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[Dr. Monkey]

Brazil Dr. Monkey when you get the chance, could you tell me in 3 gifs or less how you feel about Ketkat so far? Thanks.

This thread needs some more of you, bud! Any hot scum reads for me?

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I am less concerned by what KetKat said than the way she kinda melted away when there was attention elsewhere. I think a lot of what's been focused on so far is less scummy than just people trying to figure out how to operate in a big game with weird rules. Some may be scummy but it may not be scum, if you know what I mean. But Flux dug in and defended, as contrast, and that feels townier. Still wouldn't make a strong statement yet about KetKat, though. More of a wait and see there.

Also good morning, hello, will be slowly catching up.

 

[Blargonaut]

Welcome CeeCee

 

[Fireblend]

is there a reason you wouldn't vote yourself to be in contention?

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I'm more interested in seeing who would be up for electing me than seeing my name up on the vote list. If I was in contention I might vote for myself, but it's not something I'll do rn

 

[Blargonaut]

I don't really agree. I want to choose a person that I feel will give me a read on them regardless of who flips based on their decision.

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ooh, pick me, non-response

 

[Fireblend]

Also, welcome CeeCee! Sucks that Sophia had to drop out, she had a good presence in the game I think. But it's good to have you too!

 

[Blargonaut]

Can I choose to not welcome CeeCee?

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.

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How inhospitable, this is clearly why you two aren't leadership material(s)

 

[Fran]

CeeCee What is your opinion about Blarg?

 

[CeeCee]

CeeCee What is your opinion about Blarg?

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Blargonauts must die, but is Blarg a Blargonaut?

How much Blarg could a Blarg Blarg Blarg if a Blarg Blarg could Blarg Blarg?

My opinion is that Blarg is a pillar of fire and air that brings only grief

Blarg once outflew an albatross

 

[Fandorin]

I'm alright with Fandorin as leader also, because of this:



This mod joke interaction with Sophia feels off to me. Feels like a silly little joke you make with a scum partner early in the game to tick that 'interacted with scum mate' checkbox.

I've not really gleaned much else useful from his posts so far.

It's not much, but along with my current feeling on Sophia, I'd be willing to let Fantomas take a shot.


Brazil,

Just to clarify your post and making sure I parsed it correctly, you're voting Fandorin because if he is leader and votes, you get a better read on him?

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I didn't congratulate Sophy on her promotion for mod before, so the mod joke was sorta kinda a way of acknowledging it. I think she took it more seriously than I expected, but that's what it was.

But I'm a bit unsure here, the main reason for voting for me would be this? I understand you want to get a better grasp on my reads, but you mention this interaction "felt off", am I scum leaning to you?

Can someone explain why they are voting Fandorin?

It's not like I don't trust him because nothing is making me feel that he is scum but this is not about this. The objective of this is to find someone who could be able to do a decent read based on meta as they would have low info to play with. I'm not saying that Fandorin would make a bad decision but he is relatively new to this community. Has he even played with Flux, Kawl or Pirate Bae before?

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I played with Kawl and I think Pirate Bae before, but only watched two games with Flux.

Apart from that, like others have already said it better, I don't think meta should be a crucial factor in choosing a leader, especially since we don't even have newcomers in the game anymore. Knowing ouyr community can help early on when we have little info, however if the leader justifies his vote based on meta we would go back to square one.

Fandorin voted early for Fireblend(I ackonoledge it was most likely a joke vote) but later didn't list him on among the people he would elect. What's your take on Fireblend right now?

I am leaning town on Fireblend myself and may consider voting for him.

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I hate "null reading" people, but Fireblend is pretty close to that to me right now. His posts didn't much substance, like he himself admitted. He reacted more defensively than I expected after Sophia called him out on his "goofiness", but unsure where that puts me right now.

Not someone I'm town reading.

 

[Blargonaut]

Blargonaut was a late substitution in Election [Mafia]; having dropped in within the endgame as Town-aligned, his fevered reads correctly sussed out the leftover Mafia, but the remaining players chose not to listen to him out of spite. Town lost the game.​

 

[Fran]

Blargonauts must die, but is Blarg a Blargonaut?

How much Blarg could a Blarg Blarg Blarg if a Blarg Blarg could Blarg Blarg?

My opinion is that Blarg is a pillar of fire and air that brings only grief

Blarg once outflew an albatross

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So, a joke answer. I asked this because I didn't liked how Sophia was acting regarding Blarg and I don't feel that this help improve my read.

Knowing ouyr community can help early on when we have little info

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You know that this is not a permanent position but only for day one, right? So "early when we have little info" is exactly our situation.

 

[malus]

Okay, finally caught up as best as I could.

First about the leader, I think monkey made a good point about that. Electing someone that is already a natural leader won't give us that much information since they will have an easy time justifying their decision. On the other hand I don't want a total pushover that will just follow the majority blindly since that makes it easy to hide. It could also be interesting to elect a fairly new player, since an experienced player could easily fake their behavior as leader.

I would also like to point out the vote by ShadowSwordMaster. He is new to the game and goes directly to vote for Terraforce without any reasoning. As a new player I'd expect him to first watch a bit to see what's going on and all. I don't want to call it a collusion with Terra just yet, but it does give me a weird feeling in that direction. Also so far Fantomas hasn't really convinced me otherwise.

Sophia was my top scum read before she dropped out mainly based on her interaction with FluxWaveZ and flip flopping on the Blargonaut affair.

 

[Geno]

See I don't see why we have to make a big deal out of the election thing, the method I mentioned solves everything nicely, we forget the leader part and act like this is a normal day of mafia. It's weird how everyone is all like "wouldn't trust him, wouldn't trust her, maybe trust that person", if you don't want to trust them then don't, you can only trust your vote.

 

[Fandorin]

Fantomas seems OK so far. His big catch-up post had a bunch of fluff mixed in with actual content (quoted below), and he also laid down on Ketkat before she became the talk of the thread again.

Ok, big catch up post. Some thoughts on several things that have happened so far:


This read like a joke to me right away, but later Ket comes back and clarifies it as a real position of hers.

Natiko was the first to start pressuring Ketkat over that comment.

Serious question: Is there anyone in this community that is known for, or has a history of advocating for, no lynching? Because otherwise this feels like a weird post to me.

Here's where Ketkat clarifies that she does think most of D1 is basically just RNG, which is odd to me. There's plenty that can be discussed on D1, especially in a game like this where we are presented with some unique mechanics, and we can use those discussions as a source for scum hunting, even if it isn't based on as much information as we'll have in future days. I've found Scum on D1 in my last 2 games, I'd like to make it 3 in a row personally.

I like this line of thinking because I also don't like the idea of voting someone to be our leader for the day that I'm scum-reading, or at least feeling weird about.


Did you forget all about your Secret Vote power from that game already?

I agree with most of this, I don't know if I'd put Fran and Ketkat in the same category in my mind yet for their thoughts on that, but I definitely agree with the second part here.

As I said before, 2 games in a row so far, let's make it 3 together GP! Who do think is looking scummy?


Just wanted to get these two gifs back-to-back the way they were meant to be, no other comment here.

Maybe you don't post enough!

That's not allowed!

Agreed, I don't think we should be voting for Blarg to be our leader. Sorry, Blarg.


This is also my position if I were to be the leader. I think our leader should be someone who can make a scum read on their own without needing the room to guide them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I might have missed some things here and there, but to summarize my overall thoughts for now:

Ketkat is reading as the scummiest person in the room to me right now.

I'm not yet sure who I would want to vote for to be our leader yet. I would of course welcome any votes for myself as I do believe I have what it takes, but otherwise I'll be looking for players that read as strong, independent thinkers to me for the most part.

Just generally, I have early towny feels for Brazil, Monkey, Natiko, and Sorian.

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[Fandorin]

So, a joke answer. I asked this because I didn't liked how Sophia was acting regarding Blarg and I don't feel that this help improve my read.



You know that this is not a permanent position but only for day one, right? So "early when we have little info" is exactly our situation.

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Yes, I know. Read the following sentence of that post.
Where are you getting this idea that people misunderstood the election and that the leader is a permanent position?

 

[malus]

See I don't see why we have to make a big deal out of the election thing, the method I mentioned solves everything nicely, we forget the leader part and act like this is a normal day of mafia. It's weird how everyone is all like "wouldn't trust him, wouldn't trust her, maybe trust that person", if you don't want to trust them then don't, you can only trust your vote.

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In the end the leader has to make the choice of who to lynch though so we should put some thought into who has that kind of power. But in the end I agree: Once the leader is elected we should put up a pseudo vote like a normal day 1 with the only difference of the leader having the final say.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

If we want the leader to consider majority then we can vote someone we can trust, then hold an unofficial vote for who to lynch and have the leader select that person.

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I... that's... what? Maybe this has been addressed by the time I'm replying (not to bottom yet) but that seems to be the obvious route if we treat it like d1/vote someone who supports that, which many seem to be saying they don't want to do, or for the leader to do.

I'm confused here, Geno.

This mod joke interaction with Sophia feels off to me. Feels like a silly little joke you make with a scum partner early in the game to tick that 'interacted with scum mate' checkbox.

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I hadn't seen this that way. Hmm.

Its hilarious to me that you think this, like many have said if im the leader i will be damn sure to listen to everyone but at the end of the day im killin who i wanna kill

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Oh, well, good to know. I was just thinking of past games where you've held some power and been pretty willing to discuss and weigh the room.

You know iv gotten so use'd to you playing dumb that its genuinely refreshing to be reminded that you are actually very smart, this is a damn good point i hadn't thought of.

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you leave D&D in its own channel, sir!
I hear all your posts in your voice now

 

[cabot]

I didn't congratulate Sophy on her promotion for mod before, so the mod joke was sorta kinda a way of acknowledging it. I think she took it more seriously than I expected, but that's what it was.

But I'm a bit unsure here, the main reason for voting for me would be this? I understand you want to get a better grasp on my reads, but you mention this interaction "felt off", am I scum leaning to you?

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You're a bit of a null currently.

 

[Geno]

... that's... what? Maybe this has been addressed by the time I'm replying (not to bottom yet) but that seems to be the obvious route if we treat it like d1/vote someone who supports that, which many seem to be saying they don't want to do, or for the leader to do.

I'm confused here, Geno.

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I don't care about the many, I care about myself, I want us to forget the leader thing and treat this like a relatively normal day 1. I you're not with me then that's fine.

 

[CeeCee]

Right, I'm off to the skies! I hope to return as leader of the free world.

 

[Fireblend]

Alright, in front of a keyboard for the first time since the game started. So far I like cabot, Sorian, Monkey, I think Blarg is making a genuine effort, I'm just not sure what that effort is going towards yet :P I'm a bit iffy on Sophia/CeeCee and the people who outright claimed not to want the leader position because that reeks of self-preservation to me (I think Flux and Fran? Dunno if someone else said it so explicitly)

I'm curious about Fandorin 's vote on me. Was it a joke vote (I mean, it must be right, I hadn't said anything of value when it was made) and why has it stayed this long?

Vote: Sorian

I already explained my rationale on Sorian. I might change my mind, but I'd like someone who knows they can't weasel out by obeying a majority or weighing the room and voting for someone most agree with without it going very much against their playstyle.

 

[Fran]

Yes, I know. Read the following sentence of that post.

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The thing about the leader justifying his reads on meta would take us back to square one?

I think that's a really simplistic view. No matter how much meta justification the leader says that he has if he makes a choice without a valid reason he should be scrutinized.

Where are you getting this idea that people misunderstood the election and that the leader is a permanent position?

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When people like Monkey and Ketkat says that they won't vote for Sorian because he could be a good scum. It seems to me that they are afraid to vote Sorian as it would give him ultimate power, when it's just a D1 lynch that he would have to justify and allow us to make a better read on him.

 

[Fireblend]

I don't care about the many, I care about myself, I want us to forget the leader thing and treat this like a relatively normal day 1. I you're not with me then that's fine.

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Don't you think the leader thing is a good opportunity to gather info on D1 though, when D1 is usually a crapshoot that doesn't give us much other than the result of a very likely blind lynch? Our "normal day 1"s aren't exactly the best for town.

 

[cabot]

I feel you can add Faddy to that list of people overstating the power we give Sorian, Fran.


He's just being madly in love with skeptical though.

 

[Ketkat]

Alright alright enough monkeying around, I'll be less goofy

She's not new though.

RNG thing isn't anything to me, it's these posts.


I just wasn't very satisfied with this exchange. Let's ignore these players because they could be clever scum.

Also seemed to overhype this actual power, I don't like the assumption made that they can talk themselves out of a 'extra night kill'.

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I'm not saying to ignore those players, but that personally speaking I don't have a lot of confidence in being able to see through any excuses they come up with. Day 1 lynches tend to have pretty flimsy reasoning with people jumping on the smallest things they can, and out of all the people that we could vote for and give this power too, I wouldn't feel great giving it to people that I feel could use it for scum and get away with it.

Another example of someone who I wouldn't want to give it to is Blarg. It would be pretty fitting to just hand it off to him since it's his game and all, but I don't think I've ever been able to question Blarg on the things he does. I think that it's important to pick someone who we feel suspicious about in some way that we feel we can actually for sure gain something from. I don't know how every player plays to be honest, and my memory of the past games outside of like 1 or 2 things from each one isn't great, but those three have stood out to me in each one I've read or been in.

We're on Day 1, and there are 27 of us. Ruling out 2 or 3 people leaves us with plenty of other options still. Maybe that's not a good play or how you would do things, but that's my logic behind avoiding them.

This is super downplaying, she's not new and she also fooled a ton of people on her debut. Some of that could have been new player affect but she lasted awhile. (Looking forward to be told that game wasn't her debut either, I don't actually know but I think it was)

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We're kind of getting into weirdly too specific meta here, but my first game playing here was Monopoly Mafia. I've played in a few games since then and I had played Starcraft 2 Mafia(don't judge) and Town of Salem before that, but I dunno if I'd say I'm that experienced.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

When people like Monkey and Ketkat says that they won't vote for Sorian because he could be a good scum. It seems to me that they are afraid to vote Sorian as it would give him ultimate power, when it's just a D1 lynch that he would have to justify and allow us to make a better read on him.

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See, Fran, this is why I would not vote for you. Once you get something in your head, you hang onto it. I understand the election perfectly well. I know it is not ultimate power. But it is still handing off the keys to something - even just d1 - and I feel like that person should not be Sorian for the reasons I have posted. If other people do it? I'm okay with it. But I am not going to based on my previous interactions with Sorian and how I have failed in reading him early game, first of all, and second because I think we will be able to see where Sorian stands regardless.

That said, I am with him on Stan. I'm getting a good townread so far on Stan. I want to lean town on cabot but I am a little wary there, too, and then wary of my wariness, because I'm often wary on cabot and then wrong.

I'll post my new leader pool in a bit. I would also like to say, however, that I do not think the leader needs a meta read on everyone. I think it's kind of unfair to cut out people who haven't played lately or haven't played with everything, and it's a little insulting to think they couldn't make a good choice without meta reads, which can easily be wildly wrong.

 

[Geno]

Don't you think the leader thing is a good opportunity to gather info on D1 though, when D1 is usually a crapshoot that doesn't give us much other than the result of a very likely blind lynch? Our "normal day 1"s aren't exactly the best for town.

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No, it won't give us anything useful and will waste our time in the following days. Because instead of people voting for a lynch they are voting for someone they trust, meaning they can avoid putting their money where their mouth is. Aside from that, the next days the game will revolve around the leaders' choice, which probably will be a town lynch anyway. Normal day 1's are fine for town, if they weren't there would be a lot more no lynches than there are now. You just gotta play it smart.

 

[Fran]

So far I like cabot, Sorian, Monkey, I think Blarg is making a genuine effort, I'm just not sure what that effort is going towards yet :P I'm a bit iffy on Sophia/CeeCee and the people who outright claimed not to want the leader position because that reeks of self-preservation to me (I think Flux and Fran? Dunno if someone else said it so explicitly)

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Do you know that Monkey also said that she didn't wanted the leader position too, right?

 

[cabot]

Alright alright enough monkeying around, I'll be less goofy

I'm not saying to ignore those players, but that personally speaking I don't have a lot of confidence in being able to see through any excuses they come up with. Day 1 lynches tend to have pretty flimsy reasoning with people jumping on the smallest things they can, and out of all the people that we could vote for and give this power too, I wouldn't feel great giving it to people that I feel could use it for scum and get away with it.

Another example of someone who I wouldn't want to give it to is Blarg. It would be pretty fitting to just hand it off to him since it's his game and all, but I don't think I've ever been able to question Blarg on the things he does. I think that it's important to pick someone who we feel suspicious about in some way that we feel we can actually for sure gain something from. I don't know how every player plays to be honest, and my memory of the past games outside of like 1 or 2 things from each one isn't great, but those three have stood out to me in each one I've read or been in.

We're on Day 1, and there are 27 of us. Ruling out 2 or 3 people leaves us with plenty of other options still. Maybe that's not a good play or how you would do things, but that's my logic behind avoiding them.

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A few things to note:

1) This is a fairly unique D1 situation, and one which personally i've been able to jump in immediately and begin trying to solve instead of a period of shitposting. If anything, this structure puts more pressure on having good reasoning for a lynch. It's hard to compare to other games.
2) I can kind of see your point regarding confidence to wade through the bullshit from players you struggle to read, but this is indeed a 27 player game. There are over 20 other people here that can discuss things with you and help you reach a conclusion.
3) You're afraid of Sorian and Monkey because they are good at this game, but you're ignoring the benefits of them being town and I am struggling to see why.