As a side note, I don't understand how anyone can be confident in Fireblend.
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MafiEra Mafia |OT| The Day of the Blargonauts
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
As a side note, I don't understand how anyone can be confident in Fireblend.
Fandorin Stuff
These are some of my reasons for why I would vote for Fandorin, in earnest.
- First mention of Faddy is when he says he wouldn't vote for him during the D1 election. Never explained why. (#537)
- When Faddy's involved:
- "I sort of agree"
- "I don't understand either"
- "You're right"
- "but I agree nonetheless"
- "Don't agree with a lot of his opinions" (?): Note that this one is after D1.5 ends. The narrative then becomes that he "doesn't agree much with Faddy," and he does indeed start to opnely disagree with Faddy's opinions, especially when the flow starts to go for a Faddy vs. Fandorin lynch.
- Never directly interacts with Faddy after this point in D3 with these two exceptions (#3,748) and (#3,798). Neither of these are substantial in the least, with the former being a non-prod that's never followed up on. Fandorin was more interested in saving his own skin than trying to question Faddy on his dubious claim.
- First mention of turmoil is when he gives his reads during D2. Expects more of him, but still town reads him. (#2,663)
- Second mention is that either I or turmoil needs to be flipped after the role claim debacle of EoD2. (#2,833)
- Without quoting or directly replying to turmoil, gives what is basically a non-prod as his second and only other mention while turmoil lived. (#2,837)
- Once again, when it came down to lynching scum at a critical juncture where they're taking a stance that should incite many questions, Fandorin just sits idly by without doing anything until it's clear that there's no going back. I will say this, though, Fandorin said "I'd vote for turmoil. That role is more beneficial for scum than it is for town and Flux claiming commute adds another layer of mess. " when the votes were tied between turmoil and I 4-4. But with votes being locked, it's easy to just throw this thought out there so people can look back on it.
- Of course, we know Faddy was defending Fandorin until the end and saying votes on him in the last phase were "garbage."
- Almost feel like this wording fix for the connection between turmoil and Fandorin—one which no one would think twice about—could be a minor slip, but it's slight.
- What did this mean when Fandorin talked about me in D3? " I don't care for his contributions, dislike his idea for a turbo and his case on me is pure lazyness, but w/e, I doubt he's scum after turmoil's gambit. If he's alive after all the mess, just do him in." Faddy hadn't claimed at that point. What mess? Why should I even be done in if you're saying I'm "sorta confirmed town"?
- turmoil mentioned that he didn't want to create a "runaway fandorin effect" by voting for Fandorin during the D1 election, even though he town read him. People pointed this out at the time. Basically, it means that turmoil didn't want to implicate himself for wanting to push for Fandorin too hard when one of them flipped, thus indicating a connection. Eventually caves anyways, though.
These are some of my reasons for why I would vote for Fandorin, in earnest.
We caught scum so it obviously didn't worked.
Could you explain this?
KK, right? Which game was?
I have the same text in my PM. I think it refers that I'm only a backup for the first role that dies and not the PR that died after that. I didn't get any powers from Chuggs or Ketkat (sadly).
I meant to say excuse. I have seen it a lot in the past games like "if I'm scum I will never play again" or something like that and it really makes me mad. It seems to me that they are trying to get the rest of the players to pity them.
But the way you jumped on the Faddy's vote as soon as he was counterclaimed to me it seemed that you were waiting for that counterclaim. You voted Faddy without even wondering if Ketkat could be lying. Also if you were scum you would try to vote early after the counterclaim to avoid the bomb.
And I'm saying you're probably wrong and this reach to use the override as justification is poor.
I mentioned them because they have pieces that could be pointed out about them, but that I personally do not buy into it. I felt it was worth mentioning since a couple others had pushed narratives of Flux being scum (or neutral) and AB being a scum mastermind.
I think my thoughts on malus are already pretty clear. I will say that the one thing that gave me some doubt (the malus wagon and Faddy hopping on it) have been cleared up some when someone (Sorian? You? Don't recall who originally posited the theory) mentioned that Faddy then leaves the train for you which creates more separation in order to get himself lynched (which I believe they expected).
All caught up now.
I still like a Fando or Brazil lynch. More Brazil than Fando. The way he keeps defending Fando remembers how Faddy defended Sophia D1. Brazil D2 reaction to Flux counterclaim and now trying to make a case for Flux's claim being a scum plan is scummy.
I'm still leaning town for Sorian but if Brazil flips scum I would have doubts. It's just a feeling mostly but that fight seemed fabricated. Also they didn't vote each other.
I still think Rac could be scum. He keeping his vote on Malus makes me think he was afraid from the bomb.
And as I said I didn't like Monkey, Saw and Natiko's vote yesterday. One of them is a scum bus.
I still like a Fando or Brazil lynch. More Brazil than Fando. The way he keeps defending Fando remembers how Faddy defended Sophia D1. Brazil D2 reaction to Flux counterclaim and now trying to make a case for Flux's claim being a scum plan is scummy.
I'm still leaning town for Sorian but if Brazil flips scum I would have doubts. It's just a feeling mostly but that fight seemed fabricated. Also they didn't vote each other.
I still think Rac could be scum. He keeping his vote on Malus makes me think he was afraid from the bomb.
And as I said I didn't like Monkey, Saw and Natiko's vote yesterday. One of them is a scum bus.
Like I said - you can have that perspective. I explained my thought process and that's about all I can do. I felt Faddy had misled me, wasn't impressed by his play, and then believed the green checked counterclaim.
Brazil started the malus vote here. At the time, votes that need to be discussed were
Faddy (Fantomas and Flux)
Fandorin (Sneeks)
Brazil drops this vote and peaces out. It was his first post of the day. When he returns a few hours later, not much has happened in the interim. He mostly self-defends for a while. He had previously mentioned malus here, along with others, though he later refers back to this post and says malus pushed a false narrative that Ketkat was low-hanging fruit. Actually, here's that post. I think it's worth revisiting.
So turmoil was scum. There's some feeling spiraling around Flux but it's whatever. He's probably not mafia. But then there's malus, himself a lower poster, calling someone else getting targeted largely for not posting and not solving - even if she was doing it on purpose - saying hey, don't target that person just for that.
I don't find it scummy myself. I find it natural, to use Brazil's word.
Then Brazil says there's something about malus that adjusts his read a bit - malus reconsidering his initial SSM vote issue. But then he rails against malus for mechanics stuff around CeeCee. Anyway, this is 3299; it's a lot of other quotes so i don't want to quote it, but it boils down to - to my eye - malus being fairly new and not being on board with how the community tends to do things. I will say I agree that malus's final read on CeeCee leaves a lot of openings, but he's hardly the only one doing that this game. At this point, I'm just seeing a newer player trying to figure out how to handle some frankly weird behavior. CeeCee's play, god bless him, was not exactly clear to anyone.
Next up: Brazil does not like rac's vote on malus. Okay, fine. (that's 3489) In 3558, he argues a little with malus himself about rac's vote on malus. This is whatever until 3577, when he goes after malus over the rac vote and malus voting Fand out of self pres. This is the first thing to me that feels like a legit "maybe malus is scum" post, but it comes way after the initial vote.
I have a meeting. Will pick up after.
Or as I had put it to Cabot in Mason chat on N2, "Talk is cheap when your vote is locked in on the claimed Cop."
As a fan of spotting slips, I will give you some major props for that one if Fandorin does indeed flip Scum lol.
God, I did this soooo much in Conspiracy as Scum, Verelios was like the only person who didn't give a fuck about how I felt lol. (<3 you Vere)
A decent point, but Ketkat was green-checked already, and unless you want to try going down the "It's a Scum Gambit and they're all in on it together!" road right then and there, it was pretty obvious that Ket was our real Doctor in my opinion, even before the additional "Dr. Monkey the Doctor" claim.
OP
OP
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
fandorin (2 votes)
fluxwavez - #3,902 #3,963
sorian - #3,907
fantomas - #3,912 #3,992
sawneeks - #3,913
fluxwavez - #3,965 #3,999
sorian (2 votes)
blargonaut - #4,020
ezekelrage - #4,188
rac (1 votes)
rac - #4,117
sawneeks (1 votes)
natiko - #3,921
fluxwavez (1 votes)
brazil - #3,991
fantomas - #3,992 #4,141
malus (1 votes)
rac - #3,957 #4,117
fandorin - #4,159
ezekelrage (0 votes)
brazil - #3,896 #3,991
ceecee (0 votes)
ezekelrage - #3,893 #4,188
Post Counts:
ezekelrage: 41 sorian: 36 fantomas: 34 fluxwavez: 29 fandorin: 26 brazil: 25 dr. monkey: 25 blargonaut: 18 natiko: 16 kyanrute: 10 sawneeks: 10 rac: 10 fran: 9 pirate bae: 6 grizzly: 5 fireblend: 5 malus: 5 lone_prodigy: 3 ceecee: 2 absolutbro: 1
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
fandorin (2 votes)
sorian - #3,907
sawneeks - #3,913
sorian (2 votes)
blargonaut - #4,020
ezekelrage - #4,188
rac (1 votes)
rac - #4,117
sawneeks (1 votes)
natiko - #3,921
fluxwavez (1 votes)
brazil - #3,991
malus (1 votes)
fandorin - #4,159
ezekelrage (0 votes)
ceecee (0 votes)
Post Counts:
ezekelrage: 41 sorian: 36 fantomas: 34 fluxwavez: 29 fandorin: 26 brazil: 25 dr. monkey: 25 blargonaut: 18 natiko: 16 kyanrute: 10 sawneeks: 10 rac: 10 fran: 9 pirate bae: 6 grizzly: 5 fireblend: 5 malus: 5 lone_prodigy: 3 ceecee: 2 absolutbro: 1
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
I don't understand this angle. Faddy didn't "let himself get lynched there" - he was going to get lynched, and not by choice. When he claimed, he already had 7 votes to his name, opposite 5 for each Fand and malus.
Natiko was still in the malus train and he was starting to get weirded out by the "He said he could prove his alignment" thing. Fand and I were also still on the malus train.
He knew he was going down, and so he fake-claimed to find the doctor with the added bonus of taking down a townie with the bomb. It's really simple, unless you're trying to fit the facts into a narrative that isn't true.
He listed #1 and #3 in his final list, but dropped #2 for no apparent reason. Him dropping #4 and onwards as well isn't the same thing.
I'm sorry if it came out that way, because I also hate that type of stuff. What I meant to say is that my confidence in my reads will be shattered if I'm wrong, and not that I'm going to punish myself or stop playing if I'm wrong.
That's true. I wouldn't have a problem with a Brazil lynch, either, as one of the 3 I'd vote for today. Fandorin would keep dodging these lynches, but as long as we hit scum around him, it's fine.
look i don't have to show my work when everyone just posts it for me
ty saw, fand
vote: malus
Brazil lynch could be fun. If scum would make cc vig shot look less like townie mistake.
Would make faddy scumreading him so heavy make sense.
Would make faddy scumreading him so heavy make sense.
Going to work now as well.
I'm disappointed with our confimed townies, bar Fantomas. Fran and Flux pushing this connection between me and Brazil are just winging it.
Again I see people ignoring my posts. Sorry, but not having anything to say about what I pointed out between Faddy x malus at D1 is just lazy. Not bothered though, since now I know that I have left something, for the town players that are actually trying, to go back to and read after I flip.
I'm disappointed with our confimed townies, bar Fantomas. Fran and Flux pushing this connection between me and Brazil are just winging it.
Again I see people ignoring my posts. Sorry, but not having anything to say about what I pointed out between Faddy x malus at D1 is just lazy. Not bothered though, since now I know that I have left something, for the town players that are actually trying, to go back to and read after I flip.
I am not. Why are you defending Brazil so much when you don't know his alignment? You've defended two confirmed scum players before. This would be the same.
The additional "Dr. Monkey the Doctor" claim was after Natiko's vote.
It's okay. I know that you didn't meant it that way, it's just that it's something that I have saw it used in several games recently and it always makes me mad but I either wasn't playing or was dead so I couldn't say anything about it. I'm just using that example to vent a little.
Could lead to answers on his defense of fando.
As I stated earlier his reaction to the turmoil thing was poor as well.
Vote: Brazil
As I stated earlier his reaction to the turmoil thing was poor as well.
Vote: Brazil
This doesn't seem like a fair way to start things off. How many accusations are players allowed to bring up early on in a day phase before we hit the threshold and subsequent accusations stop being valid because there were others that "needed to be discussed"? This already makes it perfectly clear that you're not going into this ISO with an open mind.
You're missing a lot of stuff from my accusations towards malus.
Like this exchange around his graph-fueled vote against Bae:
malus came up with that awful unexplained Pirate Bae vote, and then immediately disarmed his own argument in his very next post, during a day phase in which our first votes were locked.
Or this:
Fantomas I remembered this post from rac today that made me feel better about him. Coming back to D1 and re-examining turmoil and Faddy links to me, and not just following the flow to scum read me today, is giving him some hard townie points.
I have nothing more to say about that. You danced around hammering. That's all there is to it.
Ahh, yes. That would really explain Faddy trying his hardest to smear me with bullshit for three phases in a row.
Both of Brazil and your scum reads are not connected. I think both of you could be scum by different reasons. One of you flipping town or scum wouldn't change my read in the other. I have been saying that I feel you scummy since D2.
I saw your Malus argument but I still don't think he is scum. How his wagon went yesterday makes me think he is town and that scum tried to push that lynch. Also most of the people that I scum read are on it (and you calling it pure was bad because it's an unknown until we get a few flips) so I'm feeling good about him.
Yea. I already said that was weak, but I can see why you would go that route.
You never explained how the prepped posts were uncharacteristic.
You never commented on why you voted me to open the day.
It was either busywork or done because he knew he would be lynched at some point.
Yeah, and that is fair. I think the reason it stuck out to me that you had said that is because, for me, I have a reason to feel better about Rac and that's because he was my chat partner. So seeing someone else have a turn around when others are still pretty down on him was interesting to me. But, from your point of view assuming you are Town and know that as a fact, I can see why that would put Rac in a better light because it doesn't feel like he is out to get you.
You're comparing my reads on Faddy and turmoil with the one I have with my brother. I always pay very close attention to him and his moves, and I also had the opportunity of having a private chat with him an entire phase. We've actually tested each other throughout the game multiple times and finally came together with our town reads last phase. This is not the same at all.
I'm pretty positive in another game someone, I think it was you, said that there is usually a different message between "your target is/is not X" and when they miss. That's all I meant. Like Pirate Bae claims to be an alignment cop. If she missed her target because they commuted, she wouldn't get "Your target is town/scum", she would get a different message. That "different message" is what I was referring to. Maybe one of them expected to get a return on an investigate role and instead got a message indicating they missed.
No, I don't. Because you are comparing my pointing out the posts of someone else (Turmoil) in this thread to trying to guess my motivation. If you want to call me scum, just come out and say it. You don't have to beat around the bush and throw vague intimations.
It was strong enough for me to want to bring it up.
I thought they were, as I'd only seen you do it before as scum, but apparently you'd done the same in a previous game with Fantomas as town as well. That's fair enough.
You mean, as opposed to voting someone else in particular? What I had on you was pretty self-explanatory, so I went with it first.
To add to this, on top of the blatant malus-Faddy D1 link that Fand already brought up, here's Faddy defending malus' absurd (and locked-in) vote (that he backed down from in his next post) as "He's just memeing":
This is the clear connection. One that scum tried to hide and dance around (as brought up by Fand in his D1 observations linked above) - not one that they openly flaunted in the thread like Faddy talking about Fandorin.
You can either see it now or after Fand and I flip town.
VOTE: malus
It was werewolf 2.
That's because Brazil is still a side piece at this point, I care much more about finishing off the thread from yesterday. I came into today still thinking Brazil isn't scum if Fando is and like I quoted from my boat chat, my main hold up on him is still that he's refused to bus ANYONE this game if he is scum and that sounds wild to me.
Yeah, it was 7-5-5 because Faddy himself removed a vote from malus and caused a second place tie. If he stays put it's 7-6 and yeah, I agree he probably still gets lynched but a one vote diffference allows more bullshit to happen. He let himself fall into position where he was the lone lynch proposition.
Except it is the same thing and does matter. He didn't present a final list, it's not like he threw down Geno and Fran and said to was all of his scum reads. I don't recall malus being of interest to Stanley and I don't think he was to you either. malus wasn't getting lynched and neither were the people 4 and below on that list, that's the common link, he dropped all those to push forward Geno and Fran since they actually had a chance of dying.
This is really stepping into "woe is me" territory. Brazil pushed it a lot yesterday and now you are doing it today. I know I did ignore some of your big posts yesterday but people have been responding to your malus argument today. It's just people don't agree.
Our views do align. I haven't shared a full reads list today, but besides his case on Flux and a bit on Natiko, I share most of his town and scum reads and we actually developed them together in our chat.
I oppose Sorian's supposition on yesterday's lynch since it concludes that I am scum and malus is town, completely the opposite of my views and knowledge of the game.
Yes, "no result" is different from "your target is X" I think you are missing the forest for the trees here though, I don't really expect a such a role to exist, it was an offhand thought because I thought it was weird that faddy and you jumped to the same weird thing. It is not at all the important read even in that original post you quoted.
Hold up, why exactly was malus' vote absurd now? That vote came before she claimed iirc, it makes complete sense at the time. This is just trying to revise history with what you know now in mind.
To go on further on what I mean.
Busywork - you are town and he just chose you to fake scumhunt
Latter - You are scum and he chose you to appear busy and because no way scum would focus on another scum for 3 phases in a row.
It's not why I'm voting you. I just said it would be a nice benefit to get an answer to that question.
That's fair, but also doesn't make things more reassuring. Unfortunately for you, at this point, I do think one of you will have to flip to give a proper picture of what's going on, because both of you have acted very suspect for some time now.
Can you point me to your previous read on malus? Are you town reading him based on just the lynch wagons last phase?
Agree to disagree then. If malus flips scum would that clear most/some of your doubts on us?
What possible reason could have made Faddy suddenly remove his vote from malus just as he was about to fake claim and possibly cause votes to fall elsewhere?
Hmmm
Oh, so the angle now is that malus wasn't in Stanley's interest? Despite him being in Stan's kill list?
Keep trying to downplay this, Sorian.
You don't agree. Stop pushing narratives.
Yes, a lot of my read on him is based on how the wagons formed yesterday. Before then he was mostly in my bull since I didn't know how to read his style and he was just barely active enough to really ping anything, I think I gave him a slight town lean at one point because it felt like the dogpile after he posted that graph D2 was opportunistic more than anyone actually caring about the graph.
im sorry but this is just a horrible argument
afraid of a bomb that i would know about...
Sure, at least probably Brazil. But I'm not leaning scum for malus much at all right now, and I have no intent on voting for him.
No two (non-confirmed) players in this game trust each other as openly as you and Brazil do, except for maybe Dr. Monkey and Sorian, and there's at least some doubt there. There's no basis for it. This 100% aversion to suspecting Brazil, and vice-versa for you, is unreasonable, and doesn't make us trust you any more.
It made so much sense that he backed down from his reasoning behind it in his very next post; that multiple people called him out for it ;that Faddy had to defend him; that he had to come back later and explain his graph.
And to add to this, he came back later to explain it while the shit show of claims was in progress. He also concluded that post by saying none of the above matters and everyone should vote for Flux.
You quoted a list from before Stanley was voted in and before Faddy's list. As Stanley worked down people, Faddy seemed to have too. Stanley was not looking at malus after he was elected and again, neither were you, pushing him wouldn't have mattered
And no, Natiko responded and doesn't seem to agree, Monkey responded and doesn't seem to agree. Stop trying to pretend it's just me on an island here.
Yes, he clearly assumed people would understand what the graph was and he had to explain it but that wasn't exactly a new read from him (in terms of the vote on Bae) and what you linked there was new reasoning, he didn't really backpedal from his old reasoning. That vote is shit because votes were stuck that day but it's only crazy in retrospect because Bae is claiming cop now, at the time it was as good as any out there. No one was claimed right then.
Hey, sorry you can't handle the power of our blood read. Just hope you guys don't need to flip both of us to believe what we are saying here.