PirateBae being Roleblocked 2 Nights in a row is too believable
Let's say scum tried to kill PBae the Night after she claimed Ket green-check; if scum had a Strong kill to offset a self-protecting Doctor, then why didn't they just Strong-blast PirateBae the Night after their 1st attempt??
It's too believable to say scum really does have an RB and they're just keeping Town!PBae blocked and alive to foment this very suspicion. It's too good of a plan
My theory?
scum's got a Watcher (variant) who followed Ket, found out she can move, that she's a PR
When scum!PirateBae was in danger they decided to let Bae use this knowledge to fake a green-check on Ket, exonerating the both of them
They follow Ket a 2nd time, find out her 2nd target. But they don't know exactly what she's doing to her targets, see
So why did Faddy fake-claim Doc with Ketkat's own targets? That's scorched earth right there
Faddy knew he'd be counter-claimed the fuck out with a stunt like that. He clearly did it to save Fandorin and go down guns blazing, because at least between the two of them Faddy had the Power of vengeance
Maybe Fandorin's the RB and Faddy sacrificed himself to save their essential personnel
So where does scum!PirateBae fit into this? Well she's still safe, and now that Ket's dead she can continue to claim being RB'd forever or at least while Fand's alive
Both these posts together, I obviously agree with your ending for the most part. The stuff about Bae is whatever, that's a bridge we can cross much later. They aren't just going to let a cop sit there forever so it needs to sort itself out eventually.
I mean, technically, yeah the gamerunner can do whatever but an arsonist is kind of dependent on people knowing they are doused. They are too OP if they can just secretly douse people and then just randomly light up. The only time we had an arsonist that didn't let people know was that whole gossip arsonist thing.
I'm more confused on the specific double down that some roles can get that info without targeting the person because I can't think of any that would and the conspiracy theorist in me is now wondering why AB said basically the same thing
Ive thought about this and I'm sort of wondering if they have a tracker of some sort? Like maybe they struck gold and tracked Ketkat the first night, saw her go somewhere and then tracker her again. It doesn't explain how Faddy might know she was a doctor, unless that is crazy coincidence.
Please also note, that you only inherit the first Mafia Power Role that dies, none of the possible later ones. Please note that [REDACTED]. [REDACTED]
So this is from Turmoil's role PM. "None of the possible later ones" That reads to me like scum can gain powers? I don't really know where I'm going with this, it just stuck out when I was rereading all the flips.
So far nobody has claimed bomb defuser, so that makes CeeCees day vig shot the only (currently known) counter to Faddy. The fact that nobody raised an alarm when Faddy was obviously fishing for the hammer makes me believe there really is no defuser and in conclusion clears CeeCee. So I don't know why EzekelRAGE is still digging his tunnel there.
To me it is clear that Faddys claim was specifically to lure out the real doctor and blow up in our faces. I don't think that was the plan from the beginning, but once he was in the lead it was probably the best play he could make as scum. Maybe there was a moment where they thought they might actually get away with it when there was not immediately a counter claim, but I'm sure that was not the expected outcome.
From the votes I don't know if I want to town read Ezekelrage just yet. He asks if he can be the hammer and then votes anyway after Chuggs has already hammered. He even has a post between his question and his vote, so there's no chance he didn't see the vote from Chuggs.
Absolutbro on the other hand voted when there was a real possibility that someone else would vote at the same time. Not sure if scum would take that risk if a hammer is incoming anyway. It makes me feel better about him.
So this is from Turmoil's role PM. "None of the possible later ones" That reads to me like scum can gain powers? I don't really know where I'm going with this, it just stuck out when I was rereading all the flips.
Faddy posts this. Brazil mentions he (Faddy) is also voting for Fandorin.
Faddy's reply:
Ket counterclaims
And then the shift starts
Now, reading this over I figured it went differently than what memory told me. The easiest thing Faddy could have done here was vote for Malus to save his own skin but he didn't, instead he went in on Fandorin. Which is weird considering we have this from earlier that same Phase:
And then I went and looked over every single one of Faddy's posts the last Phase. I picked out a couple of notable ones but what is shockingly absent is any talk of Fandorin when he was a big portion of the discussion during the last Phase. He never even talks about him outside of one post and it's hardly anything.
He just votes here and leaves it, doesn't do much else with this Brazil thought. Note apparently the Brazil scumread was strong enough to make him hesitate to vote Malus despite, well, voting for Malus at one point.
One of the few times he talks to or about Fandorin is this post. He asks Fandorin if he believes the push on him to be real or not.
All of this is honestly making me lean moreso towards Malus than it is for Fandorin. Sorian I know you're a big pusher for yesterday being Scum v Scum with Fandorin/Faddy so I'm curious for your take on this. I know you have a post detailing how Scum!Faddy places a vote on his scumbuddy Fandorin here but I'm actually having trouble seeing it when looking at it in this way. This looks to me like he stepped over his scumbuddy Malus, not Fandorin.
Though the bigger hang up is Faddy just ignoring everything Fandorin related for the Day Phase but with votes that close at the end I don't quite get why he votes there. :/
if i wake up tomorrow to posts of 'see, sneeks is scum she's backing away from fando knowing it will backfire on her!' i'll disown all of you
it's a legitimate question i'm asking here. with votes that close having Faddy vote on the lower contender instead of the higher one which he could have done to save himself makes little sense unless there was a reason he didn't. I went back and looked over sorian's post this phase and he says this
I'm coming to a different conclusion. The Fandorin vote smelled a bit like self-preservation that never sticks and then he goes full claim.
If Fando and Faddy were scummates why would Faddy throw him under the bus here in order to try and save himself? Better course of action would have been to go for Malus and force a tie, then claim. But he didn't.
im starting to think i may be wrong about fandorin oh god
I've talked about this with Brazil on our chat, but after last phase this is the second time a scum member comes up with a town read on me and stubbornly mentions it time and time again without actually explaining it.
I mean, Faddy isn't known for making reads lists on everyone, but he didn't really have much to say about me. This is the earliest mention Faddy makes of me, he says that he could see me using the leader power in a similar way than him, and quite a bit later he votes for me on post #1292, saying that I was evaluating the thread the same way he did. After that I'm pretty sure he just threw an off-handed "Fand is still ok to me" without actually entertaining what I posted or even commenting the cases Neeks and Monkey made on me last phase. He didn't really care about his town read on me and was perfectly content on seeing me getting wagon behind me last phase.
Flux looks at the vote tally and says that I'm probably not getting lynched and pushes malus to vote for Faddy to limit the wagons and remove me from contention.
Faddy really doesn't like it and puts a vote on me, trying to maintain the 3 wagons alive. Notice that he tried entertaining a Flux/Fandorin link but that came out of nowhere and stayed there.
It is pretty clear to me that he didn't want the voting to be between him and malus, to the point that he ignored his game long inexplicable town read on me and added a vote to the pile he himself called garbage.
He never followed up on this either, considering he was voting for me then. I bet he would just say that he kept his vote on me to see movement, but we know that's bullshit.
Kill is unsurprising, if anything I'm a little shocked there weren't two kills. It dawned on me after I saw day end that Ket might have actually been saving people both N1 and N2 since it's wild that Faddy guesses the exact same targets and I though maybe he chose them purposely because he knew they were saved.
What better way to solidify Flux's status as the ultimate scum counterclaimant than by having him openly oppose another scummate who's already about to go down? The execution was a bit off, though.
This is bullshit. Faddy's reaction to the counterclaim is what got him lynched. There is no way that Faddy would react like that if that was a scum plan. Your case on Flux is extremely weak.
I'm coming to a different conclusion. The Fandorin vote smelled a bit like self-preservation that never sticks and then he goes full claim.
If Fando and Faddy were scummates why would Faddy throw him under the bus here in order to try and save himself? Better course of action would have been to go for Malus and force a tie, then claim. But he didn't.
Unless the goal was to do the bomb. I don't think Faddy wanted to self preserve. The more I look back at his posts, the more I think he was purposely embracing fuckery to look scummy. Over night I kept asking myself why Faddy would play so differently. He's self aware enough to cover his tracks as scum and he didn't, from the beginning. Which does, I think, lend itself to either malus or Fandorin being scum who also got caught out yesterday. I find there are more ways to tie Fandorin to the mess than malus, but that's where I'm gonna start today.
Also, good morning, and happy birthday, Sneeks. Do you want to be lynched for your birthday?
Fantomas replies that he found malus entrance weak and sensed scumminess from him, asking what was his take on malus. Faddy just brushes it away, commenting that he could see scum! malus do that.
This thread has gotten pretty stale. I don't think all the little nit picking amounts to much right now. Malus's 5 posts seem something srange to get hung up on.
I will say I am more down on Fran than I was before but he is someone I struggle to read and usually call scum. He is being overly aggressive on his solving which is in his scum game.
My little pro Natiko push didn't go anywhere and went pretty much unnoted. Still not sure what to make of him right now.
He later commented that the thread had gone stale. At the time, the main discussion was about the beef between Chuggs x Fran, after Chuggs mentioned he was town leaning on malus. Faddy shades the topic and tries to move on.
I said I thought Sophia was town and Sorian was thinking about the thing incorrectly. Sophia is quite a cautious player as mafia so her flip flopping is actually a bit townie, at least in my opinion. And that is based on watching her in monopoly and being scum mates in Brexit.
If you look at the number of people calling her mafia for it, it is simply too many imo. So either Sophia is really bad at mafia and everyone but me is right. Or she is town and everyone calling her mafia is making an honest mistake. It doesn't even really matter if I am right on Sophia's alignment btw because someone would definitely take the opportunity to bus her.
If I were to be picked as leader I would probably be shooting into that group of people.
Fran, Sorian, Monkey, Geno, Cabot, Malus, Flux and Fandorin. Most to least likely to shoot
Geno
Malus
Fran
Monkey
FluxWavez
cabot
Sorian
Fandorin
And probably just shoot into the top 5. Fandorin has been townie, Sorian and cabot have been fine and not worth shooting on day 1.
This is the next post he mentions him. Discussing those that disliked Sophia on D1, Faddy puts malus next to the top of his kill list, just below Geno and above Fran.
At then, a lot later, we see Faddy make another kill list, this time with a free pool and not linked to his Sophia thing. Notice most of the list remains the same, especially the top: Geno > malus > Fran
malus, who had been at the top of his kill list without an actual explanation, is suddenly OUT of Faddy's mind, who was now between either Geno or Fran.
What it comes down to me is who's voting where and and my other reads. I just find it hard to believe those three wagons form naturally with only one scum on them. Faddy and Fandorin both end up on malus (Faddy for no reason at all since he was reading them both the same) and Fandorin at least put out more reasoning if I remember right but not by much and when he voted he basically pushes himself out of contention, he was the last vote on malus and pushed him into solid second place.
malus vote was pure until Faddy voted for him (order was Brazil > Natiko > Fireblend > Fandorin > rac > Faddy).
Faddy voted for malus then because he was conscious of his game long town read of me and didn't want to self pres yet. Used Flux weird ass post wanting to limit the wagons to malus x Faddy as an excuse to finally vote for me and try and defuse the situation by fake claiming then.
The problem I have with there being no counter is that scum is guaranteed to get a kill from Faddy unless they win without him being killed. So far there have not been any additional night kills other than the scum faction kill, so they don't even have to worry about him being killed at night. He can basically play as bad as he wants and he is still guaranteed a kill. Again, I'm not a game balancer, but that sticks out to me as bad design.
It would also be stupid, and I don't have that sort of Bond villain hubris.
Ive thought about this and I'm sort of wondering if they have a tracker of some sort? Like maybe they struck gold and tracked Ketkat the first night, saw her go somewhere and then tracker her again. It doesn't explain how Faddy might know she was a doctor, unless that is crazy coincidence.
So this is from Turmoil's role PM. "None of the possible later ones" That reads to me like scum can gain powers? I don't really know where I'm going with this, it just stuck out when I was rereading all the flips.
It's not important unless some scum actually flips withvthe ability to get a check through a commute, you claimed it was a mistake but there was a point in day 3 that you thought it was possible for someone to have investigated Flux N1 even though he claimed to have commuted.
Also as malus says, that part of turmoil's role is written that way because there's no guarantee more than one scum dies in this game which is why it's a vague wording. It's just reiterating that he only inherits the first scum PR that dies.
I've talked about this with Brazil on our chat, but after last phase this is the second time a scum member comes up with a town read on me and stubbornly mentions it time and time again without actually explaining it.
I mean, Faddy isn't known for making reads lists on everyone, but he didn't really have much to say about me. This is the earliest mention Faddy makes of me, he says that he could see me using the leader power in a similar way than him, and quite a bit later he votes for me on post #1292, saying that I was evaluating the thread the same way he did. After that I'm pretty sure he just threw an off-handed "Fand is still ok to me" without actually entertaining what I posted or even commenting the cases Neeks and Monkey made on me last phase. He didn't really care about his town read on me and was perfectly content on seeing me getting wagon behind me last phase.
And well, look at these posts.
Flux looks at the vote tally and says that I'm probably not getting lynched and pushes malus to vote for Faddy to limit the wagons and remove me from contention.
Faddy really doesn't like it and puts a vote on me, trying to maintain the 3 wagons alive. Notice that he tried entertaining a Flux/Fandorin link but that came out of nowhere and stayed there.
It is pretty clear to me that he didn't want the voting to be between him and malus, to the point that he ignored his game long inexplicable town read on me and added a vote to the pile he himself called garbage.
He never followed up on this either, considering he was voting for me then. I bet he would just say that he kept his vote on me to see movement, but we know that's bullshit.
He dropped a lot of people out of that post though, it doesn't look ordered in anyway so I don't think malus appearing second means anything specific. He also dropped his thoughts on Monkey, Flux, and Terra.
When a cop exists, do they automatically know a godfather does?
When a doctor exists, does their role PM let them know scum has a strongman?
If town had a chat blocker, does the mod make sure to tell the scum team to be on the lookout for that?
Since when does town know what scum has based on their own role?
Hell, we ran a final fantasy game in this community where I was an overrider and I was the counter to the bomb because my override would have killed the bomb without letting him explode. I was not told that would be the case until after I was dead and had no hint to know that. It's very clear CeeCee is the counter to a bomb, he doesn't need to know the bomb is there for that to still be the case, see you on the other end of the tunnel.
malus vote was pure until Faddy voted for him (order was Brazil > Natiko > Fireblend > Fandorin > rac > Faddy).
Faddy voted for malus then because he was conscious of his game long town read of me and didn't want to self pres yet. Used Flux weird ass post wanting to limit the wagons to malus x Faddy as an excuse to finally vote for me and try and defuse the situation by fake claiming then.
This is the second time you've claimed that vote was pure, none of those people are flipped or even remotely cleared whether by interactions are mechanics, stop trying to pass that narrative.
I don't like playing with Flux for this exact reason. He's always scummy and I give it so many passes (danganronpa 3), the only saving grace here is that his clear has nothing to do with him.
I'm going to bed now by the way, since I'm already spilling tea from our boat, here was my big reads list going over day end again and some of the votes from earlier, this was posted during this past night phase and I wouldn't want anyone to accuse me of hiding my reads
This stuff all extends out past my plan of today where I need to see Fandorin flip, I'm like 99% sure it's him but as you'll note, I do have the slight worry that's wrong. I'm surprised to come into a thread that didn't see the voting pattern as problematic and figured reads on others would wait for more stable footing on the issue that last day end left danging
"So reading back on this, yeah, Faddy was just shade heavy everywhere. I'm not sure there can be much to be gained with who he was scum reading except for maybe Fandorin himself who Faddy was fine calling scum but not actually voting for when he would have been a perfectly acceptable candidate over malus.
If Fandorin is scum as well then that opens up a few new lines, malus clearly is not scum in that case (unless they really shit the bed on this game) which makes his first few votes suspect, that's Brazil, Natiko, and Fireblend.
I was looking at that rac vote and kind of scratching my head. It's only one post under Fandorin's so it felt like a cross post but it was 8 minutes later so rac has plenty of time to see Fandorin's vote. I don't think they'd be that blatant right there in the day phase and at that point, bussing should have been happening so I don't think rac and Fandorin are scum together.
Going back to the three from above. Fireblend obviously sticks out a lot since he voted for no real reason. It was fine at the time but he ghosted from the thread after that so it's just a hanging thread. Brazil's malus vote was fine at the time (and he was the first on it) and he wore his Fandorin defense on his sleeve and that's a hard pill to swallow imagining them both as scum in light of Faddy flipping too. That's pretty much Brazil 100% refusing to bus in anyway possible.
Natiko is probably the most glaring vote in there. Where as Fireblend seems to have RL issues, Natiko got his vote on at the most opportune time to switch suspicion away. For how much time he spent scum hunting/reading elsewhere, that malus vote was sticky for a long time.
Other notables you mentioned were Sawneeks and L_P, I still don't know what to make of LP, Faddy calling him out reads more like Faddy looking for an angle than bussing a scummate to me but it's so hard to tell with LP not playing. Sawneeks is kind of dependent, she stuck hard to that Fandorin vote so I'd be curious to see how he goes first.
If Fandorin is town then I feel like a lot of this is lol because then Fandorin's vote would also be a haven to save Faddy but then, I don't see why the vote would have been split the way it was."
And yes, Brazil's hard go this day phase and willingness to really go at anything has me thinking he's running interference so now I'm thinking he was refusing to bus anywhere for whatever reason. I'll check my phone one more time when I lay down here in a few minutes so if there's a quick question I'll try to answer but otherwise, I'll be back in the morning.
I think this is the first time you've ackonwledged the possibility of malus being the scum in that whole "there's 2 scum in these 3 trains" thing you came up with. A couple of inactives like rac and Febe voted there, but the vote wasn't born from them.
Is there a reason you are dismissing anything posted against Fandorin? You're acting like I'm doing this on a pure whim and not with evidence from flipped scum.
You're the only one who has brought up arguments against Fandorin. I've acknowledged your arguments, even though I strongly disagree with them. Others latched onto your scumread of Fand after you put him in the spotlight, and from there people looked at stuff like malus' "He says he's town a lot" (meaningless) and Sorian's "There must be two scum in there" (hypothesis, not evidence) to justify scumreading him as well.
Faddy's behavior during his last moments is clear evidence against the Fandorin lynch (below), but people are twisting it since they'd already decided that Fand was scum yesterday.
Really? Even in that case there is no reason to lynch the Scum player first in that scenario. People can set up chain lynches and talk about them but actually going through with it is something else entirely. If Fandorin had been lynched first Faddy may have had an extra Phase or two to keep playing. It was no guarantee he would be lynched immediately afterwards and trying to argue that as being the reason Faddy didn't try to push Fandorin harder is lol
And think that that's scum trying to protect a scummate? It hurts my soul that this ploy is actually working. Look at how blatantly he's trying to incriminate Fand to get us to chain-lynch them.
Not only that, but when pressured about it, he actually doubles down instead of realizing how bad this looks for a potential scummate:
This is the second time you've claimed that vote was pure, none of those people are flipped or even remotely cleared whether by interactions are mechanics, stop trying to pass that narrative.
And looking back at D1, I found Faddy progression on malus pretty interesting.
First time he mentions malus. He prods Fantomas on his read on Giant Panda (Sawneeks) and malus, questioning the "contradiction".
Fantomas replies that he found malus entrance weak and sensed scumminess from him, asking what was his take on malus. Faddy just brushes it away, commenting that he could see scum! malus do that.
He later commented that the thread had gone stale. At the time, the main discussion was about the beef between Chuggs x Fran, after Chuggs mentioned he was town leaning on malus. Faddy shades the topic and tries to move on.
This is the next post he mentions him. Discussing those that disliked Sophia on D1, Faddy puts malus next to the top of his kill list, just below Geno and above Fran.
At then, a lot later, we see Faddy make another kill list, this time with a free pool and not linked to his Sophia thing. Notice most of the list remains the same, especially the top: Geno > malus > Fran
However, nearing the end of D1, he posts this.
malus, who had been at the top of his kill list without an actual explanation, is suddenly OUT of Faddy's mind, who was now between either Geno or Fran.
This is the second time you've claimed that vote was pure, none of those people are flipped or even remotely cleared whether by interactions are mechanics, stop trying to pass that narrative.
Unlikely, as the first 5 votes on Faddy are from me, Fantomas (both confirmed), Flux (semi-confirmed), CeeCee and Blarg. I think that scum tried to save Faddy (and likely you) with a counterwagon so they didn't had much chance to bus until they knew that one of you were doomed.
Before I grab boat stuff though, saw this, how do these contradict? The day vig is the safe way of disarming the mafia bomb. That was nothing to do with whether turmoil could actually be a second bomb or not.
We talked about this in our boat during the night phase. I though that Sawneeks, Brazil, Natiko and your vote were really suspicious yesterday. I would prefer to have info on any of you than on Fando or Malus (but that was only a suggestion, she had the final decision).
I'll also add that you were the one that first brought up the idea of a malus counter wagon against Faddy and me as Scum/Scum, mentioning that this would be the easy solution.
How did scum kill Ketkat last night? The most likely answer is a strong kill, and if they have the ability to strong kill then they would assume there is very, very likely to be a doctor. Why would they ever expect to not be counter claimed then?
I think he expected to be counterclaimed. We did a similar thing in TMBG. When Sparks was going to get lynched, he claimed Doctor to see who would counterclaim him. And we found him. Now it's even a better plan as Faddy was killing a townie player when he was lynched.
Let me get back to this since I had to leave for a bit and couldn't offer a conclusion.
These are all the posts Faddy mentioned malus on D1.
He prodded a townie for his read on malus, and couldn't come up with a follow up when Fantomas pegged malus as a scum lean.
There was a discussion between two townies (Chuggs and Fran) about malus. Faddy didn't engage at all with it and even tried to deescalate the situation, mentioning that it was weird people were hang up on malus.
Despite all that he put him right at the top of his kill list, just between two townies. With no reads on malus, he was apparently willing to shoot him "just for giggles", after all there are ZERO posts about his read on him.
Of course, that wasn't really true. He was just adding some filler to his list, trying to cover him up later. He didn't have any intention of shooting malus then, and he made that clear when he suddenly removed him from his his list when the time came. Again, with zero explanation on it.
Combined with the vote mess with the 3 wagons last phase, malus overall posting, his bad vote on Pirate Bae (who I'm also guilty of, I admit) and his horrible and undeveloped stance on me last phase, I am confident in my vote on malus.
Is there a reason you are dismissing anything posted against Fandorin? You're acting like I'm doing this on a pure whim and not with evidence from flipped scum.
That's awesome! I'll be sure t-
..oh, darn. I support you fully in spirit <3
Between the last two pages and what you said about Sorian there I'm not entirely seeing it. I'm always ready to buy into the Snorian paranoia train but he just...doesn't seem scummy, especially with the 2 scum flips we have so far. I'd expect him to play more against their lynches than what he ended up doing if he were scum.
Hahaha, I didn't even make that connection when Faddy flipped. I didn't plan that i swear
Really? Even in that case there is no reason to lynch the Scum player first in that scenario. People can set up chain lynches and talk about them but actually going through with it is something else entirely. If Fandorin had been lynched first Faddy may have had an extra Phase or two to keep playing. It was no guarantee he would be lynched immediately afterwards and trying to argue that as being the reason Faddy didn't try to push Fandorin harder is lol
okay, listen. to be fair we did well until we just stopped being able to read our cop and listen to reason.
How clear do you want here? You want a post with graphs, charts, and a nice pointer all detailing why I want Fando lynched?
Faddy posts this. Brazil mentions he (Faddy) is also voting for Fandorin.
Faddy's reply:
Ket counterclaims
And then the shift starts
Now, reading this over I figured it went differently than what memory told me. The easiest thing Faddy could have done here was vote for Malus to save his own skin but he didn't, instead he went in on Fandorin. Which is weird considering we have this from earlier that same Phase:
And then I went and looked over every single one of Faddy's posts the last Phase. I picked out a couple of notable ones but what is shockingly absent is any talk of Fandorin when he was a big portion of the discussion during the last Phase. He never even talks about him outside of one post and it's hardly anything.
He just votes here and leaves it, doesn't do much else with this Brazil thought. Note apparently the Brazil scumread was strong enough to make him hesitate to vote Malus despite, well, voting for Malus at one point.
One of the few times he talks to or about Fandorin is this post. He asks Fandorin if he believes the push on him to be real or not.
All of this is honestly making me lean moreso towards Malus than it is for Fandorin. Sorian I know you're a big pusher for yesterday being Scum v Scum with Fandorin/Faddy so I'm curious for your take on this. I know you have a post detailing how Scum!Faddy places a vote on his scumbuddy Fandorin here but I'm actually having trouble seeing it when looking at it in this way. This looks to me like he stepped over his scumbuddy Malus, not Fandorin.
Though the bigger hang up is Faddy just ignoring everything Fandorin related for the Day Phase but with votes that close at the end I don't quite get why he votes there. :/
To add a couple insights since I don't recall Faddy posting his read list in this thread - early in the day he listed malus in his town reads and Fandorin in his null reads. His reasoning for the malus town read was that his gut was telling him malus is town and that he liked his dumb graph.
Grasping, no. Reason, yes. The reason being waiting for the possible counter. Like I mention at the start of the 1st post, the claim is strong if not countered. A claim like Faddy's in my mind was a rather binary one: it was either real or an obvious trade offer for the real doctor. The binary state would coalesce to the likely truth after everyone had posted after the claim. And that it did. You mention my early vote for Faddy, use it against me and ignore my posts about Faddy that lead to my vote. That's is mean grrr.
Fair - my takeaway was purely from looking at day end. I'll say while I haven't liked your day end the past two days, I generally have town read your other posts from what I recall. I'll have to do an ISO when time allows.
Hmm, this is true. I don't really understand Faddy's play then. I get he wants to get lynched eventually for the utility but why ever do this claim exactly? I responded to Sawneeks down below before coming back up here to answer you but, yeah, if he goes into this thinking the claim is going to fail then it's malus, he removes his vote create more distance in terms of vote numbers and if he's counterclaimed, he definitely dies.
The only other thing I can think of is, they were hoping the doctor wouldn't straight out claim immediately.
I don't think he was trying to force a doctor claim anymore. I specifically thought that because maybe Ket had been blocking kills but we still only have 1 death last night. This means Faddy just lucked out in guessing she targeted cabot N1 (Bae on N2 is obvious). Without those prior blocks, a doctor wouldn't be as annoying so why sacrifice a scum member to put that?
What it comes down to me is who's voting where and and my other reads. I just find it hard to believe those three wagons form naturally with only one scum on them. Faddy and Fandorin both end up on malus (Faddy for no reason at all since he was reading them both the same) and Fandorin at least put out more reasoning if I remember right but not by much and when he voted he basically pushes himself out of contention, he was the last vote on malus and pushed him into solid second place.
Well for one thing, he couldn't force a tie, he was already voting for malus. He leaves the malus vote to go vote Fandorin. It also doesn't read to me like he was trying to save himself, the numbers just weren't there, even with his move, he still needed three more people to vote Fandorin and everyone seemed pretty content where they were.
My best guess is they felt it was a likely scenario that he would be lynched and just wanted to bait out a role they knew existed - one that was standing in the way of safely killing the cop.
PirateBae being Roleblocked 2 Nights in a row is too believable
Let's say scum tried to kill PBae the Night after she claimed Ket green-check; if scum had a Strong kill to offset a self-protecting Doctor, then why didn't they just Strong-blast PirateBae the Night after their 1st attempt??
It's too believable to say scum really does have an RB and they're just keeping Town!PBae blocked and alive to foment this very suspicion. It's too good of a plan
My theory?
scum's got a Watcher (variant) who followed Ket, found out she can move, that she's a PR
When scum!PirateBae was in danger they decided to let Bae use this knowledge to fake a green-check on Ket, exonerating the both of them
They follow Ket a 2nd time, find out her 2nd target. But they don't know exactly what she's doing to her targets, see
So why did Faddy fake-claim Doc with Ketkat's own targets? That's scorched earth right there
Faddy knew he'd be counter-claimed the fuck out with a stunt like that. He clearly did it to save Fandorin and go down guns blazing, because at least between the two of them Faddy had the Power of vengeance
Maybe Fandorin's the RB and Faddy sacrificed himself to save their essential personnel
So where does scum!PirateBae fit into this? Well she's still safe, and now that Ket's dead she can continue to claim being RB'd forever or at least while Fand's alive
I meant all of them, Flux and absolutbro included.
On Monkey, you didn't quote the post below, which complements her following posts on the claim from Faddy.
On kyan, I take it you believe staying on the fence over Faddy's fake claim is a scum tell. I'm not sure how asking about the "number of shots" would help him in that. Scum team knew the claim was coming, so I can't see why would scum! kyan draw attention to him with that type of innocuous question.
Maybe an even day serial killer? Zeke had that role in Overwatch.
That's a strech without knowing if Bae was roleblocked or not. Suspicious.
Both of them? Do you actually believe that we had 3 scum wagons yesterday?
Your voting history wasn't much better. You also had a vote on Malus and you jumped to Faddy as soon as Ketkat counterclaimed.
It's likely a costume game. Why would we want that?
Yes, we do.
This is bullshit. Faddy's reaction to the counterclaim is what got him lynched. There is no way that Faddy would react like that if that was a scum plan. Your case on Flux is extremely weak.
I was already skeptical of Faddy when what he implied in our boat was not at all what materialized from him after his claim. I had just mentioned my thoughts on Faddy in the post before, and then when I checked next there was a counterclaim which solidified it. If that's worthy of scumreading me so be it.
And Grizzly said post-game it was probably a mistake to have the role in the game like that. I would actually have been more shocked if this game had a role like that than having it countered in a different form.
I don't know if that would actually have canceled the bomb. In Faddys role pm it says if he is lynched he killes the last player that voted him. Stans role pm says if he overrides the overridden player gets lynched instead. This sounds to me like the bomb would go off anyway.
malus vote was pure until Faddy voted for him (order was Brazil > Natiko > Fireblend > Fandorin > rac > Faddy).
Faddy voted for malus then because he was conscious of his game long town read of me and didn't want to self pres yet. Used Flux weird ass post wanting to limit the wagons to malus x Faddy as an excuse to finally vote for me and try and defuse the situation by fake claiming then.
We cannot say that vote is pure. I don't care about the spat between Sorian and Brazil. It is simple fact that we do not know the alignments of anyone in that list except Faddy. Fandorin knows his own, of course, but the rest, nope. It is in fact a guess, a version, a narrative.
Y'all can go back to fighting, but that vote was not pure. If you wanna say it wasn't started by flipped scum, cool. Fine.
I don't know if that would actually have canceled the bomb. In Faddys role pm it says if he is lynched he killes the last player that voted him. Stans role pm says if he overrides the overridden player gets lynched instead. This sounds to me like the bomb would go off anyway.
I think an override being unaffected by a lynch bomb is atypical as opposed to the norm. Making an assumption that the role would be given an exception in this game vs. a role we know beyond any doubt would not be affected by a lynch bomb seems like a streeeeeeeetch. Tunneltunneltunneltunneltunnel.
He dropped a lot of people out of that post though, it doesn't look ordered in anyway so I don't think malus appearing second means anything specific. He also dropped his thoughts on Monkey, Flux, and Terra.
This seems disingenuous. He explicitly ordered the first one and the second one followed that same order. When it came to he didn't feel the need to mention malus and instead just pushed for the two townies instead.
Fact is he just name dropped malus there at the top without a single explanation on it just to remove it later when push came to shove at the end of D1.
I think an override being unaffected by a lynch bomb is atypical as opposed to the norm. Making an assumption that the role would be given an exception in this game vs. a role we know beyond any doubt would not be affected by a lynch bomb seems like a streeeeeeeetch. Tunneltunneltunneltunneltunnel.
I think this is the first time you've ackonwledged the possibility of malus being the scum in that whole "there's 2 scum in these 3 trains" thing you came up with. A couple of inactives like rac and Febe voted there, but the vote wasn't born from them.
Man, you don't remember Mini Mafia IIII?
You're the only one who has brought up arguments against Fandorin. I've acknowledged your arguments, even though I strongly disagree with them. Others latched onto your scumread of Fand after you put him in the spotlight, and from there people looked at stuff like malus' "He says he's town a lot" (meaningless) and Sorian's "There must be two scum in there" (hypothesis, not evidence) to justify scumreading him as well.
Faddy's behavior during his last moments is clear evidence against the Fandorin lynch (below), but people are twisting it since they'd already decided that Fand was scum yesterday.
Saw, how can you look at this post made by Faddy after he made a claim that was sure to be counterclaimed (and therefore, knowing that he'd die);
And think that that's scum trying to protect a scummate? It hurts my soul that this ploy is actually working. Look at how blatantly he's trying to incriminate Fand to get us to chain-lynch them.
Not only that, but when pressured about it, he actually doubles down instead of realizing how bad this looks for a potential scummate:
Oh Jesus Christ thank you, I knew the love I had in Saw wouldn't let me down.
Because no shit it could be malus too but that's not who I think it is and most sighs point to Fandorin. The only thing giving me pause now is I feel like Natiko has a point that scum must have known a doctor existed if they have a strongman which seems to be the case. I don't know why Faddy let's himsel get lynched there, just exploding on someone isn't a good enough trade especially when they were already down one so early.
Unlikely, as the first 5 votes on Faddy are from me, Fantomas (both confirmed), Flux (semi-confirmed), CeeCee and Blarg. I think that scum tried to save Faddy (and likely you) with a counterwagon so they didn't had much chance to bus until they knew that one of you were doomed.
I still can if you want.
I don't follow you on this. What do you mean?
This arguments are crap. I really hate them.
The good old Darryl.
We talked about this in our boat during the night phase. I though that Sawneeks, Brazil, Natiko and your vote were really suspicious yesterday. I would prefer to have info on any of you than on Fando or Malus (but that was only a suggestion, she had the final decision).
No, he wasn't. I said it way before him.
I think he expected to be counterclaimed. We did a similar thing in TMBG. When Sparks was going to get lynched, he claimed Doctor to see who would counterclaim him. And we found him. Now it's even a better plan as Faddy was killing a townie player when he was lynched.
The override thing in final fantasy was highly irregular. An override is supposed to be the same as a hammer vote so the bomb should still go off on the overrider. I bring up that odd case because the town role doesn't need to know what it's countering. A bomb is prevented specifically when something other than a lynch kills it. The only thing we've seen that can do that is the day vig.
You say that, but you picked Flux and AB posts as well and went "I don't like this from them, but ok since...", which is the definition of shade to me.
I'm willing to drop that though since you're right on the second point. I just think that scum would avoid posting weird stuff like kyan did since they know the spotlight will be on Faddy and everything will be scrutinized later, but I see your point.
But sorry, not trying to pass that off. What I said makes sense and from my perspective it is looking very likely. Maybe someone in there is scum, rac or Natiko I don't know, but I'm very confident in my town reads on Brazil and Fireblend right now.
This seems disingenuous. He explicitly ordered the first one and the second one followed that same order. When it came to he didn't feel the need to mention malus and instead just pushed for the two townies instead.
Fact is he just name dropped malus there at the top without a single explanation on it just to remove it later when push came to shove at the end of D1.
Fair, I didn't realize this was copied wholesale from an earlier list. That said, he still drops multiple people off the list later, anyone who wasn't actually up for lynch is gone and they clearly weren't all scum. I don't see how this is particularly damning.
For what it's worth, a lot of it is stuff that Rac and myself went over in our Boat chat so I haven't really had much to add to it. We agreed that it does not make Malus look any better here knowing Faddy's flip.
Let me get back to this since I had to leave for a bit and couldn't offer a conclusion.
These are all the posts Faddy mentioned malus on D1.
He prodded a townie for his read on malus, and couldn't come up with a follow up when Fantomas pegged malus as a scum lean.
There was a discussion between two townies (Chuggs and Fran) about malus. Faddy didn't engage at all with it and even tried to deescalate the situation, mentioning that it was weird people were hang up on malus.
Despite all that he put him right at the top of his kill list, just between two townies. With no reads on malus, he was apparently willing to shoot him "just for giggles", after all there are ZERO posts about his read on him.
Of course, that wasn't really true. He was just adding some filler to his list, trying to cover him up later. He didn't have any intention of shooting malus then, and he made that clear when he suddenly removed him from his his list when the time came. Again, with zero explanation on it.
Combined with the vote mess with the 3 wagons last phase, malus overall posting, his bad vote on Pirate Bae (who I'm also guilty of, I admit) and his horrible and undeveloped stance on me last phase, I am confident in my vote on malus.
Oh and I forgot about his weird post addressing malus's graph + vote on Bae back at D2. No links since lazy but Faddy basically just went "w/e, it is cool" to it and never commented on it again.
