much of this is address to the godking since godking holds the keys
absolutbro - did you mistakenly skip Bae or did you have nothing to say there? I'd agree that not much seems like a scumread here. Just kinda Fantomas. Honestly, while I think he's been disengaged from the game for RL reasons, I think I'd put abbro in the shot pool right now if it was me, just to see if he would produce more. We're missing
pressure in this game with missing votes.
Fran, I also wish you'd stop assuming items are going to happen. The modifiers we've seen so far have reportedly not matched action in the games, so I don't think we can guess that, especially not when weighing it against considering someone's role in terms of balance and scumminess. It's
such a leap. And since you already think/thought Chuggs was scummy, it feels like confirmation bias.
BP is the easiest claim for scum, though, I'll grant you that, next to vanilla at least. Especially when we know there's a(t least one) killing role.
hand-wringing monkey time:
Honestly, Fran, I wish you hadn't announced your override immediately, but I can see why you feel that you had to prove it, since you announced it yesterday. But tbh, it has really killed discussion today and I am concerned that most (though not all) people don't want to stray outside the primary group of suspects, because what's the point? But it has really crushed discussion and without votes, we're even worse. That's not Fran, though - that's the combination of d1 and the d1 and d2 mechanics - just announcing the override up front compounded things a bit.
I expect there's at least one scum in the group that we're targeting, so that's good, at least. I just wonder if we'll hit 'em. I feel weird about ordering because I think some people are more conditional than others or that just scum/not scum is a little lacking in nuance since we don't have vote data for basically anyone. We're shooting blind, again. I think of this list I feel good about rac being town. I feel confident CeeCee isn't mafia, at least, though I struggle with seeing him as town at this point. I don't have the same confident in a town-lean Blarg many of the others have, but Blarg may also be feeling the same malaise as everyone else.
Overarching concerns: people like Ketkat, Chuggs, and CeeCee will be a question mark all game (honestly, Blarg also), unless play changes when the game (hopefully) opens up more fully tomorrow.
Ketkat - Some people have said resolving Ketkat is useless and I disagree. Without votals, I think flipping the players (not just her) that have been most discussed is useful at this point because it gives us something to consider based on how involved people got, or not, with that player and discussions of alignment. This applies equally to Chuggs, CeeCee, and turmoil. Ketkat is a tough case for me because I get squishy and I want to give people the benefit of the doubt but here I can't think of much to point to that's townie. She's on the top of this list but honestly I think I might resolve Chuggs or CeeCee first, only because I'm getting the feeling we might learn more from her tomorrow, like she's starting to engage more, but as someone pointed out earlier, it's all at requests, none of her own steam, and also I don't want to have this discussion again. Basically I hate this game right now and I both feel bad for about half this list and also wish we could clear several of them and move on. We need something that opens up more discussion. Wow, this is not a read. But I've also given my opinions on Ketkat's self-focused play this game before.
Chuggs - See above, but Chuggs did promise more today and has not delivered. This may be RL-related and for that, I'm sorry and my heart goes out to him, but his play this phase has also been self-focused. For me, the big red flag on Chuggs was that he was ready with some strategy - he goaded Fran and then claimed BP. It felt so structured - and not toward solving, but toward forcing Fran to show his cards so Chuggs could counter them. Oof, I think I'm convincing myself to mark Chuggs as most-possibly-scummy here.
CeeCee - I don't think CeeCee is mafia; there's a chance of a scum JOAT, I guess, but man, if so, that mafia thread is lit UP and it will be a read postgame, I'll say that. I do think there's a strong chance CeeCee could be neutral. There's an equally good chance he could be town. At this point, as with the above, flipping him gives us a resolution on him, on reads of him, and removes a question mark. This is the most useful flip, maybe, but I don't think it solves much except to settle questions. It may give us some information on people who've been very vehement about CeeCee, but I don't know if I'm as confident in that. Mostly, I want to see CeeCee trying to solve or be more forthcoming. I think back to CeeCee volunteering to be leashed and if he really is out of shots, that becomes so much less helpful and useful here - less of a townie move. I question his actions at almost every step. The thing I can't resolve is: is this town play that went totally sideways and then snowballed? Or is it self pres moves? If he's a neutral, what's his wincon? Do we believe he's out of shots? Do we believe there's something more to his role? He has given so few reads that he doesn't lead far, but a lot of paths lead TO CeeCee, so that would be helpful at least.
Turmoil - I definitely think turmoil has been weird today. I also think he's the least useful of the flips in this potentially scummy category. If turmoil is scum, bam, good, nailed it. But if we flip a town turmoil, I don't know what we get. I think there have been some legit reasons to put him in scumreads so even those paths aren't fruitful unless combined with something else. Tomorrow will tell there, maybe. Fran, if you really scumread turmoil, I say go here but if you want a pragmatic flip, wait a tick. Maybe I should ISO turmoil. Hmm.
Blarg - Flipping Blarg resolves Blarg. I think that's all. I think that's useful but I'd like to hold judgment until we see how he addresses these questions. I don't see the same things with Blarg as some of the others and I don't really agree with the meta reads I've seen so far; Blarg presented himself as useful in Pineapple Pizza and he was scum. I think he is a BIG question mark. I will say this - if tomorrow becomes a sort of reset, when we actually have regular votes, this isn't a bad question to resolve to open up tomorrow. But we don't know with the modifiers, so big shrug. Pending his answers (if they are answers), we may learn something more. I will say this re: meta, though - I do think the d1 reads on Blarg are useful and I was starting to get town Blarg from d1 here but coming back d2 and doing only gifs for a while reduced that a great deal. I really don't know now. I just really don't.
Pirate Bae - I'm torn here. I can definitely see the arguments for scum and I don't disagree with them. Bae was one of the first people I ever played with and I expect more for her. Here, her play has been scattered and the defense of Ketkat, while interesting, can go a few ways. It may be one way for a less active and engaged player TO engage and I'd hate to lose a town Bae over it if she's right, but it also feels kinda like a stretch. If she's wrong, and we lose a town Bae over a question mark Ketkat, that sucks because it basically hamstrings us for another day as we debate what that means and probably we continue to circle Ketkat. If we flip Ket we can evaluate her flip with Bae and that may be better strategically. If we flip Bae, we don't necessarily learn about Ket, though I guess a scum Bae makes a town Ket slightly more likely since I doubt scumBae would tie herself that firmly to scumKet. But it gets us into wifom for sure.
Fantomas - I'd lean town on Fanto for now. Votes will tell there. I see the arguments and they aren't awful but I think I'd flip some of those who call him scum first.
Rac - I think rac is town. It's partly gut and partly meta, but I see rac's posts here as townie rac, though I reserve the right to change my mind on this when votes open up. Maybe I should ISO him, too, and see if I can make a more concrete argument there.
Maybe one more big one for me before we move into EoD. I'm just feeling very... not great about today at this time.
