Wait, some of you have a cat but don't let it outside? That's a bit sour. Cats love to explore, seems pretty cruel to force them to stay indoors.
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Lying on the front lawn while cat
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Dogs can be fenced into your property. Dogs usually don't roam neighborhoods for days and then come back whenever.
I can agree with you to an extent, it was more the way the person I quoted said it that was funny.
Yes, because siding with the unreasonable is the way to fix things
Cats are roaming animals. If people are trapping cats inside 1-2 bedroom apartments or similarly confined spaces then maybe they shouldn't be having cats
I'm just trying to understand the rationale
Like, people don't actually require cats at all. Why should we be fine with captivity if animals if everyone is so concerned about the welfare of animals?
Do you like to go outside? Or would you be happy to spend your entire life indoors shitting in a box? It's not too big a stretch to imagine that animals like to go outside, we certainly do.
None of my parents cats roam the neighborhood. They have a large garden and their cats have a limited roaming area. They come in at night and spend most of their time inside, but the option for fresh air, direct sunlight, and exploring outside is available. If you don't have a suitable environment for a cat then don't have one
Dogs eat weird shit, spread mess, can attack wildlife (and people)
This is false. There is no good evidence that reduction in bird populations is related to domestic cats. Cats would have to be killing at an insane rate to be a key driver for reduction in bird populations, and anytime anyone has actually tried to look at the behaviour of domestic cats they've failed to find them killing at anything close to the rate required. If anything it's mostly related to other causes of reduction in biodiversity: changes in farming practices and destruction of habitats.
I mean, after seeing that video of an American family calling the cops on a whale I'm not surprised they call the cops on a cat too.They do get in trouble with the cops 30 times, though.
The person I originally asked whether they think dogs should be kept indoors sighted those things as to a reason to not allow cats outside. You're right in that both species to that stuff, it's why I asked. My guess was that they'd imply it was unkind or unfair to keep dogs inside only, which I feel is a bit hypocritical (as is talking about welfare of animals when we're talking about pets)
People should really read the report that says outdoor cats have severely shortened lives, because it wasn't talking about the fairly standard practice of letting them out during the day and keeping them in overnight. Mine have always done that and they've all lived to 15+.
Although we do have an indoor cat at the moment who can't go out because of a disability (malformed front legs). He goes out on the balcony under supervision and loves those little outings.
Although we do have an indoor cat at the moment who can't go out because of a disability (malformed front legs). He goes out on the balcony under supervision and loves those little outings.
I fucking hate people that keep their cats as outdoor animals, the cat of my neighboor would go into my house by the window and we had rodent pets, we were about to set tramps inside our house to protect our pets from the cat.
If this is what it takes for people to keep their pets inside or with a leash, keep giving tickets.
If this is what it takes for people to keep their pets inside or with a leash, keep giving tickets.
Actually I agree with this, and is why I think cats shouldnt be domestic animals.
The fact the citation was issued on the lawn and a photo was apparently taken In the yard doesn't mean the cat wasn't roaming all over the neighborhood in general. We had a lady near us that was constantly letting the cat out and saying "she didn't know what to do" and folks complaining were specifically told to take pics anytime they saw the cat outside. For frame of reference, I'm a cat lover myself. I keep them all inside at all times as in the US that is recommended by practically any vet you ask. I do know that's not the case all over the world.
I'm aware of that research. If you actually look at those estimates, there's a massive range indicating the scale of the uncertainty. At the top end, domestic cats would each have to be making a kill every day for those results to be reliable. Even that link you posted is quite clear that housecats aren't doing the majority of that killing. Killing by domestic cats is almost entirely due to feral cat populations.
Now, if you're saying that we should capture, neuter, and release feral cats to control populations we're in agreement. This has no bearing on whether one should keep a domestic housecat indoors though, as even the estimates you posted admit that they aren't having a majority impact on migratory bird populations.
It's also worth repeating that whenever anyone has made the effort to track housecats with collar cameras and GPS trackers, they rarely kill. Their hunting behaviour is opportunistic, which makes sense. Why make the effort to chase prey that's running away when you can wander through a catflap and get a meal?
I did look at those estimates. There is indeed a massive range, and the floor of that range is still a very large number. You're mischaracterizing the role of housecats:
"We estimate that cats in the contiguous United States annually kill between 1.3 and 4.0 billion birds (median=2.4 billion) (Fig. 1a), with ∼69% of this mortality caused by un-owned cats. The predation estimate for un-owned cats was higher primarily due to predation rates by this group averaging three times greater than rates for owned cats. "
So ~30% of that very large kill rate is caused by owned, outdoor cats. That's not "almost entirely" ferals.
I had some dude threaten to have my cat impounded if he saw it lounging in his bush again, I told him if he touched a hair on his head I'd make his life hell.
Goddamn adorable cat whom I did not have the means to keep in the house so I just hung out outside with him to make sure he doesn't wander
Goddamn adorable cat whom I did not have the means to keep in the house so I just hung out outside with him to make sure he doesn't wander
One reason why I love cats, they just don't give a fuck.
All mine did was raise hell and sleep, then come sidling up to me looking cute for food like I had forgotten the bloody heads she brought me every other month.
All mine did was raise hell and sleep, then come sidling up to me looking cute for food like I had forgotten the bloody heads she brought me every other month.
That's like 70%. The underlying studies are all based on estimates though. The reality is that when scientists like John Bradshaw have made the effort to actually track housecats, they just don't kill at that rate. Even the cited sources for that paper, you're looking at a mean predation rate of about 10 prey per cat per annum in a rural setting. Even then, a lot of what cats were killing would be considered pests like rodents and wild rabbits. The impact on migratory birds is the main concern, and feral cats account for over 40% of the variability in those estimates.
It's worth repeating that study only claims that cats are the main source of direct anthropogenic mortality, and they didn't consider habit destruction from things such as industrial farming which is absolutely the leading cause of loss of biodiversity. I think that alone threatens something like 70% of the total world bird population.
Here's an article from the RSPB here in the UK on predation of other species by domestic cats;
Despite the high numbers of prey animals caught by house cats (and it's a lot), there is no scientific evidence that this is what is causing bird population decline. In fact certain species are increasing in numbers in domestic gardens, ie right on the doorstep of the outdoor domestic cat.
Outdoor cats don't have a large effect on population decline, despite how many they kill.
So all you people keeping your cat locked up all day because you're concerned for the birdies (and mice and rats I assume) may have to rethink your reasoning for keeping a naturally roaming animal cooped up.
You wouldn't dream of having a dog and not taking it for walks would you? Why is a cat any different?
Despite the high numbers of prey animals caught by house cats (and it's a lot), there is no scientific evidence that this is what is causing bird population decline. In fact certain species are increasing in numbers in domestic gardens, ie right on the doorstep of the outdoor domestic cat.
Outdoor cats don't have a large effect on population decline, despite how many they kill.
So all you people keeping your cat locked up all day because you're concerned for the birdies (and mice and rats I assume) may have to rethink your reasoning for keeping a naturally roaming animal cooped up.
You wouldn't dream of having a dog and not taking it for walks would you? Why is a cat any different?
Hard to mind my own business when your cat shits and throws up on my porch, backyard, deck, but who gives a shit when you don't have to clean it up.
Someone else's cat entered my parents yard and completely destroyed multiple bird nests, killing all of the chicks. Which really upset my mom because she put so much effort into attracting birds to the yard.
It's frustrating, and can be insensitive/self absorbed on the owners part imo. A cat just lounging in the owners yard is fine though.
It's frustrating, and can be insensitive/self absorbed on the owners part imo. A cat just lounging in the owners yard is fine though.
Owned cats kill over 30 birds each year... I've owned 6 cats and it's kinda pathetic between all of them they haven't killed a single bird! Our family must have raised lazy animals lol.
Or killing large swaths of wildlife
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I had an outdoor cat for over a decade and, based on that experience, would never do it again. Her face and ears were a mess of scars, one of her eyes had been clawed and was a pure milky blue and then a week ago she went out and never came back...
That said, I certainly wouldn't stop someone else from doing it and anyone who calls the police on a cat chilling in it's own front lawn needs to consider not being a pathetic wretch.
That said, I certainly wouldn't stop someone else from doing it and anyone who calls the police on a cat chilling in it's own front lawn needs to consider not being a pathetic wretch.
You're right, your niece isn't making a good argument. And you aren't making a good analogy.
Why would I let my cats outside? Unless I want to see their guts splattered all over the road after being hit by a car.
My cat spends all day in the garden chairs. We have a big space for him to roam outside and inside. I'd never have a cat if I had to keep him locked inside a small apartment.
my parents' cat goes outside a lot but they have a big yard and the furthest he goes is over near the neighbor's birdfeeder. He's never killed a bird, only a couple shrews. doesn't seem interested in birds generally actually, he's usually over at the feeders to watch the squirrels and chipmunks. he legit plays with the chipmunks, as in races around with them and will kinda tag them but not attack, then let them go and keep playing. he did get into a lil trouble with a fox a few weeks back.
curious how those who say dogs shouldn't be left in the yard if they're not fenced in feel about electric fences. a dog can get through an electric fence if it really wants to, but a well-trained dog won't. Still, there is technically nothing but a shock keeping them in the boundary. and sometimes they malfunction--we noticed the collar on our border terrier was broken when we realized he was going outside the boundary to get treats from the mailman every day. he's an old lil dude though so the furthest he goes is right by our curb.
curious how those who say dogs shouldn't be left in the yard if they're not fenced in feel about electric fences. a dog can get through an electric fence if it really wants to, but a well-trained dog won't. Still, there is technically nothing but a shock keeping them in the boundary. and sometimes they malfunction--we noticed the collar on our border terrier was broken when we realized he was going outside the boundary to get treats from the mailman every day. he's an old lil dude though so the furthest he goes is right by our curb.
Pet cats in Europe roam the streets... They're not indoor animals and are free to roam independently
This whole story is baffling to me.
this isn't an antiquated law. its grift.
you think they cared about this shit in the 1900s? the only thing to do with a cat was either put it out or keep it in.
Our house is a very very very fine house
We have one cat in the ya--- 🚓
Seriously though, folks, supervise your cat when it's outside, they decimate bird populations which is pretty bad for the environment. As far as I can tell that's what was happening here though, so there should be no issue, cops being buttheads.
Also lol at comparing declawing to only letting your cat outside with supervision. Yeah, deliberately maiming your cat is definitely equivalent to making sure they don't get themselves maimed or infected or become a serial killer of other animals.
We have one cat in the ya--- 🚓
Seriously though, folks, supervise your cat when it's outside, they decimate bird populations which is pretty bad for the environment. As far as I can tell that's what was happening here though, so there should be no issue, cops being buttheads.
Also lol at comparing declawing to only letting your cat outside with supervision. Yeah, deliberately maiming your cat is definitely equivalent to making sure they don't get themselves maimed or infected or become a serial killer of other animals.
My cat's an indoor cat but only because my neighbor's grandson seemed like the wildlife mutilating type. We've since moved but now that the cat's older it seems late to introduce him to that much independence.
I understand the issues with outdoor cats harming bird populations and I've even had neighbors' cats harass mine through a screen window. I'm surprised to see so many people assume cats should never be let out though. Do dogs in a backyard not kill birds and rabbits too?
I understand the issues with outdoor cats harming bird populations and I've even had neighbors' cats harass mine through a screen window. I'm surprised to see so many people assume cats should never be let out though. Do dogs in a backyard not kill birds and rabbits too?
And to remind everybody, those are the same American vets who support the act of amputating the tips of a cat's toes.
It's illegal in a bunch of US cities, probably soon to be illegal in NY State, and most vets won't perform it. Last I saw in my city, there's a bill working through to make it illegal, and my vet won't do it.
Yay, America. Catching up with the rest of the world one township at a time.
I've had one cat that didn't attack anything and another that killed everything in sight.
The killer was actually a much sweeter cat.