-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Luke Skywalker describing Kylo's Power. Huh?!!
- Thread starter BlackFyre
- Start date
The movie (and Luke) treats it like a moral line has been crossed for him even considering it (to the point where it's used as a justification for his exile) but also wants to have its cake and eat it too by saying that it was an impulse so he can be absolved of blame. It's a half-assed character assassination.
Friendly reminder that Darth Vader attempted to talk to his son first before drawing a weapon.
Darth Vader is a better father figure than Luke Skywalker #TruthFact
Darth Vader is a better father figure than Luke Skywalker #TruthFact
You're talking as if this mistake Luke made had no consequences. His reckless nature led to his nephew destroying the Jedi Temple, joining the First Order and Luke exiling himself forever. Luke says himself that he was arrogant enough to think because he was Luke Skywalker he couldn't fail in rebuilding the Jedi order. Well he was wrong. Defeating the Emperor didn't make him a perfect human being.
you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I always felt like Goku put in most of the work there...
Luke should have just refused to train him based on what he saw. This would have made Kylo feel alienated and betrayed and forced Kylo into the arms of Snoke.
Yes, it was a moral line that was crossed. That is very explicit in the film. It also doesn't absolve him of blame. I don't think anyone is arguing that Luke did no wrong. Luke beats himself up about it.
I think the matter is whether you think Luke drawing his saber in reaction to catching a glimpse of extreme darkness is character assassination or not. I personally don't think so because he overcame it. I think it is an understandable reaction, one that he rightly beats himself up about and rightly feels like a betrayal to Kylo that he has to atone for, and is explicitly portrayed as such.
The argument is not whether Luke is to blame. The argument here, at least what I'm making, is to pushback against the notion it was premeditated or out of character.
Fair enough. Luke mentions that he had felt the darkness growing inside of him for a while, so the decision to spy on KR while he slept with a weapon capable of murdering him wasn't a spur of the moment decision. But yes, the movie does frame Luke's murderous intent as being immediate and fleeting. I also assume a Jedi probably carries his weapon with him everywhere, so it's not the same thing as a random person sneaking up on someone armed with a gun or a knife. I still despise that scene for how incredibly out of character and contrived it seems. Arguments that Luke was impulsive in his youth and almost struck down his mass murderer, war criminal father aren't really all that convincing for me.
he nearly murdered his father before redeeming him tho
acting irrationally on impulse/emotions is the Skywalker way
And in both times he realizes the error of his ways
The thing is, though, that the realization in rotj is the completion of his character arc. The actions in tlj is the undoing of it - it makes a total mockery of his whole progression.
Should Luke even have been looking into Ben's heart like that? That in itself is an ethically dubious thing to do, he's reacting to things Ben hasn't even done yet. If he hadn't peered into his mind that night perhaps he would never have turned.
it's not about the consequences (That are again due him being an even shittier father figure and worse than the act itself). The dude straight up completely failed the kid as a father figure and rather than even attempt to solve the shit show of a situation he caused, he gave up, he ignored the problem and let it fester into a galaxy wide problem while he ignored all of this.
These are a repeated line of fuck ups on his end that do little to make you feel sorry about the situation he helped cause.
Last edited:
When he talked to Yoda in TLJ, I wish Yoda would have just said "Dude wtf?" and then just disappear.
This is a silly complaint. The statement is sufficiently vague to be open to interpretation. It could easily have an implied context of "in a student or untrained person". Or of "in people that I've done the Official Jedi Raw Strength Assessment exercise with". Use your imagination.
Then Luke would have not force lifted the X-wing underwater to go save Leia and the last of the rebellion and then fade away right before Kylo strikes him down like Obi-Wan did for Luke in ANH.
Oh wait my bad. That's what should have happened.
It's fair to feel it's contrived. Obviously all fiction is contrived, but whether you regard it as such depends on your willingness to buy in. It's one of the most divisive elements of the film that kind of defines how you feel about it as a whole. If you don't feel like Luke's behavior is in character, you don't "buy it", then the rest crumbles. If you feel he is in character, then the fallout is easier to accept.
I'm in the latter camp, though I don't think arguments about his impulsiveness in youth are convincing either. Rather, looking at this particular situation, I accept Luke immediately being put on the defensive when he catches a glimpse of pure evil. I also buy his invasion of privacy, though that would be considered crossing a clear moral boundary. He sensed evil and investigated it, and I can believe him acting that way if Kylo was otherly guarded. Luke doesn't have to be a perfect uncle, I can buy that he might have a little personal friction with his nephew that drove him to peak in Kylo's dream. It's a dumb fucking move, but in all fairness my own dad, who was great and my own hero, did the same thing to me (well, he didn't invade my dreams, but it's not all that different from peeking into a private journal) and regretted it. So I can buy this fictional hero doing it too.
Yeah, Ghost Yoda should've just showed up and lightninged Kylo and the entire FO to death.
He's obviously talking within the context of a student or natural baseline but the entire internet is a cinemasins hell now
For the record, no.
Vader is a botched cyborg it's stated his potential was completely wasted because of that. Sidious, in various canon media, calls him a tragic waste.
That's why Sidious wanted Luke.
Without that Anakin seemingly would have had no limit.
Vader not being at full potential because he doesn't have enough midichlorians anymore???
He was pretty clear. It's because he was half human and could never get over Padme's death.
You understand midicholorians were not a cause but an effect, right ?
Anakin was stronger in the force than most, therefore, he had more midichlorians.
Losing midichlorians would not result in losing force.
He didn't say he's scared of Rey's power because she's similar to Kylo or the most powerful force users he's gone against. It's clear he's scared because of what such raw power at a young age and before training, means.
He's comparing her trajectory to Kylo's. Like when people compare some young politician to the next Obama. They don't mean that person is the same as Obama at the end of his term (or some other famous, historically well-regarded president), they mean they have the same potential.
Or when someone is worried some new guy or girl is going to be the next Trump, or something.
Beside, Kylo does seem to be at least or more powerful than his grandfather, Darth Vader.
How the FUCK can people hand-wring so much about this?
In addition to all the other interpretations mentioned thus far...it's RAW power, potential inside the body of, oh, I don't know, an emotionally conflicted man-child who's not mature enough to control it outside of lashing out? And there's the narrative about a Jedi who wields the force which, last I heard, has an aspect to it that's constantly threatening to overwhelm that which is balanced and good by appealing to short-term emotions fueled by anger and fear, kinda like a...dark side...?
How do you people critique fictional characters and plots without a damn lick of understanding of themes, context, and human flaws?
In addition to all the other interpretations mentioned thus far...it's RAW power, potential inside the body of, oh, I don't know, an emotionally conflicted man-child who's not mature enough to control it outside of lashing out? And there's the narrative about a Jedi who wields the force which, last I heard, has an aspect to it that's constantly threatening to overwhelm that which is balanced and good by appealing to short-term emotions fueled by anger and fear, kinda like a...dark side...?
How do you people critique fictional characters and plots without a damn lick of understanding of themes, context, and human flaws?
Last edited:
He's also saying this to an audience who saw Anakin have the same goddamn arc. This is a weird thing to have a problem with.
I don't see how it breaks his character? He's had decades to change, and such a change lines up with the ways in which we see Yoda and Obi-wan change as well.
Exactly. It's like, take your pick from Anakin, Leia, Luke, or Ben and we know Luke means that such raw power has donde evil things half the time.
This isn't actually true. Midi-chlorians are the middleman between the Force and the person. We manipulate the Force with midi-chlorians.
Apparently they were going to explicitly explain this in ROS but its since been cut from the script.
Because he was overconfident back then, so could be seen as not being afraid enough? Luke was never (obviously) there for Anakin's heel turn but he was for Kylo's.
I don't read that line as being to do with power, rather the emotional reaction to the potential consequences of someone with that power going bad.
Fair enough.
But that literally changes nothing about any of it. Because whoever gets a higher count or "who is stronger in the force" is still completely arbitrary.
The why remains detached from the biology IMO.
It makes sense to me that a whole civilization would investigate and analyze scientifically its "magic". The fact they know how a body operates with the Force still doesn't explain what the Force is or what it wants (as it's stated they are NOT the Force). It's basically just there to add a pseudo science in that Era.
And in the case of Vader, "he is more machine than man", which reflects both his body, and his mental state.
So there are multiple reasons as to why he lost his potential. But I guess he did lose a lot of midichlorians when he lost half his body :p .
