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Lucasfilm Story Group (Matt Martin) and Darth Vader's Comics Writer (Charles Soule) Confirm Sheev didn't Create Anakin
- Thread starter Yukari
- Start date
Well, in a scene in an actual movie, made by George Lucas himself, we're explicitly told that Palpatine is Anakin's father, so this comic is meaningless.
I'm sorry that everyone involved in TRoS' production forgot, and thus put weird incest in their movie.
I'm sorry that everyone involved in TRoS' production forgot, and thus put weird incest in their movie.
He was no longer Anakin. Vader saw Anakin as weak. All thoughts of Padme and all of that were long gone.
It's in fact the opposite of explicit in RotS, it's implied by Palpatine. He says, "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life. [...] He taught his apprentice everything he knew." No where in that dialogue does Palpatine say he created Anakin. An earlier script draft doesn't count either.
As Yoda says: "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice". The Dark Side takes over when you submit to it, and as far as Yoda and Obi-Wan are concerned there is no coming back. It's kind of the whole point of the lesson he is teaching Luke at the time, you know "Beware of the Dark Side".
these are the same people that warn that "only a sith deals in absolutes"??
Unless Palpatine went down and knocked up Shmi physically, it's not incest. I always got the idea that either Plagueis was the one that created Anakin before he died, or Palpatine did influence the force but wouldn't know where the result would show up, and just assumed that someone super powerful with the Force would turn up sooner or later.
It's also why the take that Rise is bad and invalidates ROTJ because the Palpatine bloodline won over the Skywalker bloodline is wrong, because there ISN'T a Skywalker bloodline past Shmi. Anakin was created by Palpatine, Shmi was just the host. If not for Palpatine, Shmi has no children. Palpatine created his own downfall in Anakin, and in a more roundabout way Rey, but ultimately they both owe their existence to Sheev.
The only issue there is that young Anakin shows up as a Force ghost at the end of ROTJ. Not only would he never have been able to learn the secret, but even if you get to be a Force ghost without knowing it and being a Jedi, wouldn't it not really be a secret? I suppose they could throw in a dead Obi-Wan counciling Vader to turn and become a Jedi again, would be kinda messy though
So in Lucas's original script for ROTJ, he says that Obi-Wan and Yoda somehow saved Anakin's soul, or something, when he died and that's why he was able to become a ghost.
Obviously this isn't necessarily canon since it's never mentioned anywhere, but it makes sense to me.
The prequels made a huge mess to the SW lore.
It feels like it is the product of an intelligent 12yo.
It feels like it is the product of an intelligent 12yo.
User warned: hostility
Does tweet in the OP say December 23 2019 or not jackass
"wHaT?" like we're all up to date on things the story group has or has not said & assuming this was recent is not a reasonable conclusion to make based on the information in the op. Spare me.
Yeah that works if it's more like a heaven scenario, but I think it was kinda retconned into the prequels how being a Force ghost was actually one of the biggest mysteries of the galaxy and nobody actually knew how to do it until Qui-gon figured it out. They had to explicitly teach Vader the secret, which is kinda iffy
From the original draft of Revenge of the Sith. Lucas was originally going to be really explicit that Sheev created Anakin, instead he decided to handle it more subtly. But the implication is clear all the same.
I don't get why people always post original drafts as if they prove anything other than the original idea. If they weren't used they aren't canon
i mean, that seems to be the point
https://observer.com/2017/04/george-lucas-says-star-wars-is-for-12-year-olds/
Yep I actually always liked this idea...the only part of that book I didn't like was the hamfisted retcon of Plagueis being present in TPM observing but never seen.
It does track with TROS if you think of Anakin being used as a host body but until he was mangled by Obi-Wan and force healed by Sheeve and when that failed, Palps tried to goad Luke into striking him down, and ultimately Rey. It also tracks with Snoke/Sheeve targeting Ben because they couldn't locate Rey and her being light side as a reaction: now presumably she is all the sith and all the Jedi?
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He says that to a character born of an immaculate conception, while they watch a performance that is a visual allegory for a sperm fertilizing an egg.
That's explicit.
It's really this simple. These comics etc. should mean nothing.
They're step cousins, though. Luke is essentially her step father, which is why she adopted his last name. Abrams was so obsessed with copying the original trilogy that he copied the incest kiss too.
No.. this is not explicit. At least, it absolutely has nothing explicit about Palpatine creating Anakin. The visual allegory is for the creation of life. I think you are letting the previous version of the script and non-canon material dictate your interpretation.
It doesn't matter what is in the script. What actually is Canon is what is show on the movie. Besides that, only statement from the creator (s).
Besides, I think it's more interesting Anakin being a genuine Chosen One, created by the Force alone, only to have him bring seized by Palpatine.
i was gonna be all like um excuse me theyre all aliens how do we even know they have dna
but wookiepedia says otherwise! thanks wookiepedia
Did you not read the rest of my post? Lucas was originally going to explicitly reveal Palpatine created Anakin, instead he handled it with some subtlety. Between the dialogue and visual symbolism it's fairly obvious what his intentions are for that scene. It becomes even more obvious when you read what Lucas was initially going for.
Maybe I'm giving Lucas too much credit but despite his original intention for that scene in Ep III, it seems clear he decided to backtrack on the reveal of having Palp create Anakin instead of it being the will of the Force reacting to the imbalance Palp brought because it's just too contradictory as to what was clearly stated about Anakin's origin in TPM and creates too many plot holes that would also make Palp look dumb and incompetent as Hella pointed out.
Who greenlit what now?? Don't understand that spoiler bit.
Who greenlit what now?? Don't understand that spoiler bit.
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I guess there's no need for alien species to use deoxyribonucleic acids to store genetic information, but any advanced form of life needs to store this information somehow, and pass it on. So even if wouldn't be DNA, it would still be some chemical compound serving a similar function. Life without genes, let alone advanced life forms without some genetic makeup, would be essentially unregonizable to us as any form of life.
I've never read any previous versions of the script nor am I referencing any EU material, *you're* the one referencing fan fiction.
The play *is* an allegory for the creation of life: Anakin's life. Anakin was born of immaculate conception, Palaptine tells him "I can create life, you know". Palpatine is explicitly telling Anakin that he created him. You have to twist yourself into an insane knot to interpret that scene any other way.
I dont care what some comic book says, the movie George Lucas made says Palpatine is Anakin's father.
yeah that's what my initial post was going to be 'well actually'ing but nope they have normal dna apparently
Which is fucking stupid
There's no way Luke knew Leia maybe but when would Luke have found out he was cut off from the force and clearly didn't know who she was
In the final draft, Palpatine never explicitly tells Anakin that he created him. Instead he says something about how people are able to to influence midichlorians to create life while some visual storytelling goes on in the background. Now I highly doubt Anakin noticed the sperm and the egg, and I don't think he walked away from this conversation thinking Palpatine was his father. This implication of Palpatine creating Anakin is for the audience and not for Anakin anymore. Now ask yourself why Lucas needs to lie to the audience about Anakin's birth. It may not fit your headcanon but Lucas' intent should be pretty clear.
I don't understand how a draft of a script that WASN'T used (I would call that author's intent) is being used as "proof" that an idea from a rough draft (that again WASN'T used) is canon.
Also if it were canon (it clearly isn't) it still wouldn't be incest. Influencing midichlorians to make life isn't the same as providing your DNA. Anakin wasn't a Palpatine.
It doesn't matter what "environmental storytelling" is going on in the background of a scene where Sidious is telling Anakin what he needs to hear in order to do what Sidious wants. If anything if we are going to confirm canon based on a show going on in the background PLAGUEIS is the one Palpatine was talking about during the whole thing. Palpatine later says he can't do it and needs Anakin's help. (Which could even be a lie! It should be clear how unreliable a narrator Sidious is!)
Also if it were canon (it clearly isn't) it still wouldn't be incest. Influencing midichlorians to make life isn't the same as providing your DNA. Anakin wasn't a Palpatine.
It doesn't matter what "environmental storytelling" is going on in the background of a scene where Sidious is telling Anakin what he needs to hear in order to do what Sidious wants. If anything if we are going to confirm canon based on a show going on in the background PLAGUEIS is the one Palpatine was talking about during the whole thing. Palpatine later says he can't do it and needs Anakin's help. (Which could even be a lie! It should be clear how unreliable a narrator Sidious is!)
Yes let's ignore the very clear visual symbolism going on because it doesn't fit your narrative. It's kind of amazing that the one time Lucas decided to handle a scene in the prequels with some subtlety, people refuse to accept it!
Lucas chose to make it ambiguous and it's better that way.
From the original draft of Revenge of the Sith. Lucas was originally going to be really explicit that Sheev created Anakin, instead he decided to handle it more subtly. But the implication is clear all the same.
I like the prequels more than most and this is by far the worst part about them.
I still prefer the Plagueis, Palpatine's Master actually created Anakin through experiments in the Force. Not that he knew that he realized what he did at the time, thinking it was a failure. The Force like everything does not like when someone tries to manipulate or control it.
Agreed. These lines being removed doesn't mean Lucas did a 180 on the idea. He correctly decided to not slap you in the face with it as hard as he did his other ideas. And yet there are so many questions about Anakin's birth that maybe George should've just been blunt about it.
If he filmed it as written it would be too on the nose as an "I am your father" reveal. It would be so clunky.