The entire movie is an allegory for coming out. That people don't see this despite how explicit the messaging is shows how lacking they are in film criticism.
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Luca, Disney and queerbaiting in animation
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
I only ask because I came out last year and I've been obsessed with coming out movies and TV shows with coming out storylines. I saw this and thought, "I have to put this on my watch list!"
Some of the examples used to argue in favor of this reading of the film are very flimsy. At the end, it was a given Guilia was leaving and the characters were preparing for her departure. However, Alfredo gave up his dream Vespa in order for Luca to continue his dream.
In a way, this reading feels reminiscent of toxic masculinity as it implies a close friendship between boys has to be something more than friendship. Like oh Luca and Alfredo were very close and shared similar circumstances, so they must be romantically attracted to each other rather than just having a genuine strong friendship.
In a way, this reading feels reminiscent of toxic masculinity as it implies a close friendship between boys has to be something more than friendship. Like oh Luca and Alfredo were very close and shared similar circumstances, so they must be romantically attracted to each other rather than just having a genuine strong friendship.
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Better is a weird question to ask. Art exists just to exist, and we don't know if the circumstances at Pixar would've allowed them to make a better movie if they wantedb it explicitly gay (because they're not the most inclusive company with regards to storytelling). A gay movie with two adolescent male leads would've definitely been better for queer representation than that we have now, but... I'm also happy we finally got a mainstream animated movie about two kids regardless of their sexuality just being friends? There is something to say about a film, as we begin to confront notions of toxic masculinity and the havoc they wreak, that shows a world where boys can love each other as friends and be vulnerable to one another, and still be boys without their masculinity in contention. I cried from the ending when Alberto got sentimental from that angle.
I thought it was when you make something gay but claim that it isn't in an effort to jerk around a desperate audience
For example going like:
and then saying "It's just a brotherly relationship, trust us"
Sasuke is Naruto's one true love and you will never convince me otherwise.
I feel like people throw out the term queerbaiting way too often for things that don't qualify at all. Not animated but if you want a perfect(heh) example of QB, though this isn't animated, look at the Pitch Perfect movies especially the third one. It was presenting a queer outcome with no intention to actually do it.
I think queer coding is more appropriate for Luca.
I think queer coding is more appropriate for Luca.
I guess if you ignore literally every other queer subtext and allegory in the film.
Myself and all the queer people I know absolutely felt like this was basically a coming out story.
Very much so. Queerbating is more like Disney saying "LeFou is TOTALLY gay in the live action Beauty and the Beast!" and showing that by having him have a nearly-split-second dance with another man. At least that's how I understand the term.
Yeah, Pitch Perfect is really the perfect thing to point to for some actual queerbaiting.
Luca is just a little movie that either intentionally or not is pretty dang queer. It being unintentional strikes me as almost ludicrous but stranger things have happened.
I mean, they also could have done that since kids are the primary audience for their movies.
Straight people kiss and are couples in kids' movies all the time. But yes, if they were downplaying the gay, that's where the concern came from.
When I watched the movie, I kinda got the impression that Luca and Alberto were the ones more likely to wind up in a relationship. Yeah, Luca leaves with Giulia at the end but there's like zero romance between the two of them. Luca's more interested in going to school.
The framing between Luca and Alberto (Alberto literally chases the train as it rolls out of the station!) is VERY different than the framing between Luca and Giulia, which is about as platonic as humanly possible.
The framing between Luca and Alberto (Alberto literally chases the train as it rolls out of the station!) is VERY different than the framing between Luca and Giulia, which is about as platonic as humanly possible.
I don't think this movie works at all if the characters aren't kids.
The whole premise kind of requires the main characters to be very young.
On my first watch I didn't catch it, the movie felt 200% about a friendship and discovering the world to me.
I gave it another chance and, well, I can see it how it can be queer-coded but the movie is broad enough in its themes that you can pretty much put any repressed community there and you can relate to it. LGBQT+ members are so starved for representation that I feel they want to claim the movie as theirs, and I guess that is fine, but there is enough plausible denyability there to go either way.
Movies are up for interpretation, as everything is, so more power for those who do.
I gave it another chance and, well, I can see it how it can be queer-coded but the movie is broad enough in its themes that you can pretty much put any repressed community there and you can relate to it. LGBQT+ members are so starved for representation that I feel they want to claim the movie as theirs, and I guess that is fine, but there is enough plausible denyability there to go either way.
Movies are up for interpretation, as everything is, so more power for those who do.
As scripted? No… but there's a reason the trending hashtag on TikTok was
Calamari by your name. It wouldn't be that hard to tweak it into a more mature story.
I know it could be but I don't think this was ever going to be about characters that weren't kids at any stage in it's development.
Raya had very strong sexual tension between two women, Luca had a lot more than that.
for crying out loud Luca's parents were going to send him to a horrifying place to try to force him to be 'normal'
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I mean you're right but I think the point is that society associates gay relationships with sexuality and adulthood while innocent heterosexual crushes at a young age are considered normal. Basically, the age of the characters means that a lot of people think that it can't be gay, especially since there's no kissing or anything, and so don't clock it a "gay movie". Whereas if they were older, it would hit more and Disney would lose that deniability.
Yeah though I did always see Lefou as having an attraction to Gaston. I think Disney overhyped the representation so while it's not entirely QB it's still annoying. Same with Avengers Endgame.
Honestly the PP one to this day still bothers me. The first two films have issues but I enjoyed them and they started embracing the idea more in the second due to the popularity. Then comes the third(which also is just a terrible movie in general that feels more like a self hate film) and they try to force both characters into new het relationships while STILL putting bait scenes in. Even worse was the interest before it released wasn't great so they put out a bunch of ads that act like the two characters will get together even though by this point the movie was out in places and everyone knew it wasn't happening. It was honestly one of the worst forms of queer baiting I've ever seen. Only positive was a lot of the cast was in support of the relationship especially Anna Kendrick who even forced a take(more an outtake because she tricked them) where they end up together. Hell she is already great for putting her foot down on the sexist problematic shit they wanted her to do in the movie. If they ever do a fourth I hope to fucking god they learned from how awful the third movie is. One of the worst franchise enders ever
Yup, I watched it last weekend & I didn't get any gay vibes off it AT ALL.
It's possible for straight guys to have friendships, you know.
Sheesh people are really trying hard to read something into it, which is fine, but that doesn't mean it works that way for every viewer.
In Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure Ted's parents were going to send him to military school so he would be normal. Same trope 30 years ago.
Why is the assumption that queer people are reading into it vs. you might be misreading it? I don't think queer people need to be lectured about how straight friendship exists btw.
The final scene with Alberto touching hands with Luca and then chasing the train along the platform is 100% queer. We've seen this kind of romantic scene countless times with straight characters, why is it suddenly being questioned if it's two boys? It's not even thinly veiled at that point. There's also the fact that Alberto is patently jealous whenever new girl tries to impede on his relationship with Luca; this is also a common love-triangle trope. Whether the creator openly admits to it or not, you really have to have tunnel vision NOT to see what is being alluded to.
It's art, there are different interpretations. The problem the author of the article makes is thinking their version is the correct and only one.
as a bi person, I feel queerbaiting has to be intentional, and Lucca doesn't strike me as that sort of case.
I have to admit when I watched the film, I didn't pick up on it at all, (as a jew). I saw a lot of jewness in the story, especially with the parents and the time period being what it was. But on rewatch, that last scene, and when Alberto turns into his "real" self as he's chasing the train is absolutely about the two boys being their true selves in a very pure way that at first seemed to me like a kinda cliche moment, but on rewatch is really touching.
I mean, they aren't THAT young. They are 13/14. Teens, really.
That's the one that I thought was more along these lines.
I totally didn't notice Luca in that light at all. Just a story of bros being friends and wanting to expand their world.
But after reading this thread I could see that LGBT interpretation.
i guess I'm aloof to it. My kids didn't pick that up either. One asked me about Raya though.
Yea I didn't take it as LGBT as well but just think it comes down to everyone's interpretation of it. I'm not gay myself but the story hit me hard as I had my best friend my whole childhood move away and that train scene wrecked me.
Tbf, the seamonster gimmick and them having to hide their identity from an explicitly anti-seamonster town is a dead ringer for queer allegory. People were already calling it gay on that front when that trailer dropped.
User Banned (Permanent): Homophobia, account in junior phase
Can platonic friendship still exist or are LGBT people trying to get rid of that?
Yea in hindsight I definitely can see it but didn't get that feeling when watching it but again I'm not gay so it's not something I probably would notice either way. I'm happy that people are seeing it that way while at the same time others can completely relate to the story as well
Yes, the villainous queers are plotting to eliminate friendship. You're very smart.
I watched the movie twice and didn't get any gay vibes from it at all. If Disney made a gay movie, they'd be extremely obvious with the messaging and themes and such, so no, I don't consider Luca a LGBT movie at all, and Disney clearly doesn't either as I've yet to see any commentary from them confirming it.
You'd best believe they'd be shouting it from rooftops and taking credit for it like they were the first to ever do a gay film. Disney has a very long way to go, as money is everything to them, and they don't want to lose sales on any of their major motion pictures. Disney still thinks gay = bad. They know exactly what they're doing.
Giving Disney credit here for creating a gay film that isn't actually gay at all contributes to the problem.
You'd best believe they'd be shouting it from rooftops and taking credit for it like they were the first to ever do a gay film. Disney has a very long way to go, as money is everything to them, and they don't want to lose sales on any of their major motion pictures. Disney still thinks gay = bad. They know exactly what they're doing.
Giving Disney credit here for creating a gay film that isn't actually gay at all contributes to the problem.
If literary studies have taught us anything, it's that the author of a piece of media has very little to say about its meaning(s). Who the author is and what they say have, of course, a certain importance in guiding the analysis and to put everything in context, but that's pretty much it. Once something has been released to the public, it's ultimately to the public to decide what it is and what it means.
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A film is not made by a single person.
To believe not a single animator or other person working on the film saw the queer allegories while they were making it is absurd.
The fact that this debate is happening is just further proof that LGBT+ individuals are treated like shit by entertainment media, and we have to fight over literal scraps.
Imagine having to constantly wonder if any inkling of queer representation is legit because of endless gaslighting and broken promises. I'm so fucking over the "it can be queer if you want it to be, but we'll never say it outright" garbage. It never stops.
Queer people need representation that's unabashedly crystal clear. Sustained. Center stage. No room for doubt or debate.
Imagine having to constantly wonder if any inkling of queer representation is legit because of endless gaslighting and broken promises. I'm so fucking over the "it can be queer if you want it to be, but we'll never say it outright" garbage. It never stops.
Queer people need representation that's unabashedly crystal clear. Sustained. Center stage. No room for doubt or debate.
Once you make something and release, you have no control over how its interpreted. That's how art is.
Did schools stop teaching reading comprehension and basic media literacy while I was not looking?
You cannot take the author's stated intent as the one true gospel. For a bunch of just practical reasons.
How can you see
the old ladies revealing themselves as sea monsters while holding hands
I was watching it with my SO and both of us were like "yeah, that wasn't subtle at all."
Fuck, I did not even need to see the movie to read it as queer. It was pretty damn obvious from the commercials.
The trailer just confirmed suspicions.
That said, reading it as queerbaiting is insane.
I really need people to not distort the meaning out of that word. It is important that it has meaning to describe an all too common and unfortunate phenomenon.
The trailer just confirmed suspicions.
That said, reading it as queerbaiting is insane.
I really need people to not distort the meaning out of that word. It is important that it has meaning to describe an all too common and unfortunate phenomenon.
That isn't how art works. Once it is out there, it can be criticized and analyzed in any way it can be analyzed. (I don't agree with the premise of the article in OP, though. This wasn't queerbait. It was just coding.) And just because the director said one thing doesn't mean there weren't other people also working on this project giving their input and adding their own ideas into the story. Animated films are a collaborative work.