LTTP: Wonderful 101

[Plax]

Huge fan of Platinum Games but never got round to playing Wonderful 101 on the Wii U. However, I grabbed the PS4 remaster on sale and knocked it out in about a week.

I'm unsure how I feel about the game. It simultaneously feels like a great game, but a weak Platinum game.
What I mean by that:

Great Game

• The concept is excellent. I loved the idea of the dozens and dozens of heroes all fighting together. I enjoyed "collecting" citizens and giving them masks to fight in the pack. I also enjoyed the unite concept, using those same people to create giant swords, bridges, guns etc.
• Despite some rough edges, the game is great to look at. There's plenty of colour, some great designs and the levels are packed with variety.
• The music is very good. Check this out.
• There are some surprisingly good puzzles in the game.
• The game is packed with variety. Punch Out minigames, shooters, battle arenas, hidden arenas, boss battles etc. There is just heaps to find and it never gets old.
• There are a ridiculous number of boss battles and they are mostly unique. Boss battles are essentially a giant puzzle, and working them out is very satisfying.
• QTEs. I realise a lot of people hate these. But I felt they worked well in W101. They were mostly used to cap off big action set piece and were fun.
• Combat is satisfying and packed with variety. The giant sword feels great. While using a whip to grapple and tear armour off of enemies is a great way to mix things up.

Weak Platinum Game

• The combat is also not very fun. At least, not when any sort of challenge is introduced to it.
• Enemies don't flinch, or at least, flinch so rarely that it barely matters. This means that you need to pay attention to what the enemies are doing at all times.
• However, the camera is terrible. It is frequently zoomed in too close, with enemies off screen charging dash moves or projectiles.
• There is also so much going on that it is way too easy to just get lost in a mess of heroes, giant weapons and explosions. More often than not I wasn't even sure what damaged me, which made it difficult to learn enemy move sets and how to avoid damage.
• Avoiding damage is also a pain. You have a few different options. A dodge, a block/parry and some of the unite moves can reflect/block specific things. However, the game is particularly poor at communicating what you should be using. The block/parry is great, but I'd estimate it can only help you out half the time. The sword can reflect some lasers, but not all of them. I was always taking damage and was never sure what more I could be doing to avoid it, outside of spamming dodge and using up my unite gauge.
• In the event that you do take damage, you not only lose HP. But you will most likely lose most (if not all) of your Wonderful 101 heroes.
• When they are incapacitated, you are unable to use your unite gauge moves. And in particularly nasty scenarios, unable to even use dodge or basic attacks. You can run around and collect them back, but essentially getting hit costs you HP, time and damage output.
• Some enemies will actually crush or stun you. But it's difficult to see what exactly is happening to your leader. You will only be aware that you can't move and collect your companions.
• Even if you dodge an attack, there's a good chance that your companions will be hit. This incapacitates them and again, impacts your damage output and ability to use the unite gauge.
• In a few scenarios, the game drastically reduces the number of companions you have. This amplifies the above issues even more and led to some genuinely frustrating moments where I was damaged repeatedly, with very little damage output and in some cases, an inability to dodge in time for the next attack.
• In a bizarre design decision, the unite moves need to be drawn in a specific shape and size for the maximum impact. However, in many cases your unite moves will be interrupted by enemies, spikes or terrain. This can prevent the unite move working as intended and in some cases, just incapacitate your heroes.

Overall I thought it was a very good game, but I was surprised that the biggest issue I had with a Platinum Games title was the combat of all things. There was also some really weird/creepy vibes coming from a few characters. Wonder-Pink and Wonder-Green were had me skipping cutscenes on a few occasions.

Era, what did you think? Was I way off on the combat or was it a pretty consistent issue?

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Best Platinum game I've ever played.

 

[ArjanN]

I wouldn't call it a weak Platinum game but it's more uneven. There's a ton of content in there, but it's not all as polished as Bayonetta or Revengeance.

 

[Plax]

Best Platinum game I've ever played.

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If the combat were better I'd absolutely be onboard with this opinion. I thought the game was fantastic in most areas.

 

[HammerFace]

If the combat were better I'd absolutely be onboard with this opinion. I thought the game was fantastic in most areas.

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This was my first platinum game and holy shit the combat was phenomenal after it clicked. I don't think some of your complaints with the combat are off, but I think after the game clicks some of the things become less of an issue like knowing where your leader is, knowing where attacks are coming from, and to some degree the amount of shit happening on screen (there will always be too much, but I feel like you get used to it).


I don't think the dodging was a particularly huge issue, unless you were either doing it wrong, or dodging when you should've countered. Otherwise you probably would've kept the majority of your members. Even then though, its not that difficult to regather your units.

I don't understand your last point though. I don't remember there ever being a specific instance of needing a large enough unite morph, and the specific morphs generally don't take that long to form. There were times where I'd fuck up like 3 or 4 times in making the morph and I'd still manage to get it out without any issue. Yes there could be problems with your morph being too small and it'd add time to your combat, but even then it wasn't that hard to reposition yourself in time to get it out.

The only Platinum game title that I thought was worse from a combat perspective, was the Transformers game. But yes, I agree that it's mostly uneven. I did have some great fun with the combat at times. The boss fights were awesome.

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I also loved Transformers' combat. I got really fucking good with Nemesis Prime

 

[Plax]

I wouldn't call it a weak Platinum game but it's more uneven. There's a ton of content in there, but it's not all as polished as Bayonetta or Revengeance.

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The only Platinum game title that I thought was worse from a combat perspective, was the Transformers game. But yes, I agree that it's mostly uneven. I did have some great fun with the combat at times. The boss fights were awesome.
But fighting 2 x Hoedowns while my team is stunned was one of the most frustrating experiences I've had in years. And I don't normally get annoyed by those sorts of things.

I was also puzzled by the decision to include enemies that could only really be damaged using the time bomb. The really fast, teleporting enemies were just annoying, because you had to draw the bomb. Quickly change to a better weapon, hit them until they block before, repeat. I didn't find them fun or interesting to fight at all.

 

[Plax]

This was my first platinum game and holy shit the combat was phenomenal after it clicked. I don't think some of your complaints with the combat are off, but I think after the game clicks some of the things become less of an issue like knowing where your leader is, knowing where attacks are coming from, and to some degree the amount of shit happening on screen (there will always be too much, but I feel like you get used to it).


I don't think the dodging was a particularly huge issue, unless you were either doing it wrong, or dodging when you should've countered. Otherwise you probably would've kept the majority of your members. Even then though, its not that difficult to regather your units.

I don't understand your last point though. I don't remember there ever being a specific instance of needing a large enough unite morph, and the specific morphs generally don't take that long to form. There were times where I'd fuck up like 3 or 4 times in making the morph and I'd still manage to get it out without any issue. Yes there could be problems with your morph being too small and it'd add time to your combat, but even then it wasn't that hard to reposition yourself in time to get it out.

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Hard to explain, but I remember a few areas where I was trying to draw the Hammer. But between the giant turtle enemy, and some other obstacles, my heroes were just hurt/stunned and I couldn't complete the move. I ran into the issue repeatedly, and the only solution I found was to run to the other side of the arena, draw the hammer there, and then sprint back to use the move. I ran into this issue a few times throughout the game and it always left me scratching my head. I think I would have preferred if the drawing mechanic was independent from the arena/enemies, so you could always draw what you intended and get straight into it.

 

[Plax]

I also loved Transformers' combat. I got really fucking good with Nemesis Prime

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I liked the style. But it never clicked with me. It felt like a clear step down from the quality of stuff like Bayonetta.

 

[Deleted member 197]

I was also puzzled by the decision to include enemies that could only really be damaged using the time bomb. The really fast, teleporting enemies were just annoying, because you had to draw the bomb. Quickly change to a better weapon, hit them until they block before, repeat. I didn't find them fun or interesting to fight at all.

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When you use the bomb on the enemies you don't need to attack them, you need to use team attack or the gun to stun them, then proceed to juggle them.

I don't wanna sound condescending but it sounds like you don't know about stunning enemies (the game doesn't do a great job of it mind you), you use team attack(or the gun) to get wonderful ones to latch onto the enemy and after a time has passed you will hear a CLANK and the enemy will have blue stars over them, after this you can proceed to juggle them to your heart content. All enemies except bosses can be juggled (well the Turtles can be turned over) but some require more work than just team attack to stun them, although figuring out how to stun them is part of the fun.

Again sorry if you know this already but reading your post made me feel like you don't know this, and this makes the game so muuuch better.

 

[HammerFace]

Hard to explain, but I remember a few areas where I was trying to draw the Hammer. But between the giant turtle enemy, and some other obstacles, my heroes were just hurt/stunned and I couldn't complete the move. I ran into the issue repeatedly, and the only solution I found was to run to the other side of the arena, draw the hammer there, and then sprint back to use the move. I ran into this issue a few times throughout the game and it always left me scratching my head. I think I would have preferred if the drawing mechanic was independent from the arena/enemies, so you could always draw what you intended and get straight into it.

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Oh the turtles. Fuck the turtles. I've beat that game 4 or 5 times and the turtles are still the worst fucking enemy. I don't think I had this issue, but yeah the turtles are the worst and the hammer is the hardest morph to draw imo. But yeah that's definitely frustrating, it also doesn't help they always come in pairs of two as well.

I liked the style. But it never clicked with me. It felt like a clear step down from the quality of stuff like Bayonetta.

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I could see that, it was definitely more budget than Bayonetta thats for sure. At the time I hadn't played Bayonetta, only Anarchy Reigns (I hate this game) and W101 (maybe MGR as well, I can't remember when I got around to that one). So to me it's still up there, and imo its definitely the better of the licensed games that platinum made for Activision.

 

[Plax]

When you use the bomb on the enemies you don't need to attack them, you need to use team attack or the gun to stun them, then proceed to juggle them.

I don't wanna sound condescending but it sounds like you don't know about stunning enemies (the game doesn't do a great job of it mind you), you use team attack(or the gun) to get wonderful ones to latch onto the enemy and after a time has passed you will hear a CLANK and the enemy will have blue stars over them, after this you can proceed to juggle them to your heart content. All enemies except bosses can be juggled (well the Turtles can be turned over) but some require more work than just team attack to stun them, although figuring out how to stun them is part of the fun.

Again sorry if you know this already but reading your post made me feel like you don't know this, and this makes the game so muuuch better.

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I was aware of the mechanic, but I didn't know how to get it to trigger consistently. I found the best way to stun was to parry and then use the team attack. I would then just follow up with a throw if possible. But I'm not sure I ever juggled an enemy to be honest. It's a shame the game isn't better at explaining those things.

That said, I'm not sure it would have addressed the core issues I had with the combat and damage/punishment system.

 

[Deleted member 197]

I was aware of the mechanic, but I didn't know how to get it to trigger consistently. I found the best way to stun was to parry and then use the team attack. I would then just follow up with a throw if possible. But I'm not sure I ever juggled an enemy to be honest. It's a shame the game isn't better at explaining those things.

That said, I'm not sure it would have addressed the core issues I had with the combat and damage/punishment system.

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Yeah some of the problems you have i totally agree with them and i love the game, it definitely feels like it is one of the PG games with the worst tells, and is a shame, because if there was a ever a game where they really needed to hit it out of the park with the visual and audio cues for the attacks it was this one.

And a good deal of enemies can be stunned just by spamming team attack, and you just do a rising attack (Jump then attack) to get them into the air, and then you just press attack to do an air combo, also i remembered that the blob enemy can't be stunned and some enemies while stunned can't be juggled (although you can still deal lots of damage to them) . You really don't need to be some kind of master to take advantage of it, juggling will leave an enemy defenseless and unable to attack and it will mostly keep you out of reach of the rest of the enemies. I don't think there is a right or wrong way to play a game, but the stun mechanic really feels like the dodge offset of the Wonderful 101.

Stunning and juggling enemies won't make those lows go any higher, but it will definitely make the highs be even higher. If you ever decide to come back to this game i would really recommend focusing on it.

 

[ArjanN]

The drawing is definitely an issue at times, what you can draw is limited by the geometry you're on, which at times can be frustrating.

It's true that the game is not all that punishing, but the game not explaining a lot combined with contantly throwing you into new setpieces almost certainly means that most of your first playthough is going to feel like your're just stumblefucking your way through.

Now all the Platinum games have the "first playthough is the tutorial" thing, but something like Bayonetta is better at making feel you're doing cool stuff, even when you're only engaging with the mechanics on a very basic level yet.

 

[RedSpring]

It definitely took me watching combo videos before it clicked for me. For the time bomb, I always use the team unite bomb so I do not have to switch my weapon. You can draws over hole and wall so it shouldn't matter what environment you're in. The only exception is drawing into some hazard like fire and electricity which will kill your line. The unite charge upgrade is also essential since it let you draw a smaller shape and increase the size by holding A. I have to agree that the game is bad at giving you notice that enemies is attacking from offscreen and that the combat shine in 1v1 situations.

 

[Plax]

It definitely took me watching combo videos before it clicked for me. For the time bomb, I always use the team unite bomb so I do not have to switch my weapon. You can draws over hole and wall so it shouldn't matter what environment you're in. The only exception is drawing into some hazard like fire and electricity which will kill your line. The unite charge upgrade is also essential since it let you draw a smaller shape and increase the size by holding A. I have to agree that the game is bad at giving you notice that enemies is attacking from offscreen and that the combat shine in 1v1 situations.

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Definitely agree with this. The fights against Vorkken were the highlights of the game. I definitely felt like I was playing in peak Platinum Games territory then. The camera was fine, moves were telegraphed well, and I was able to get some decent combos going.

 

[ScaleboundGOTY]

Best combat system kamiya has made, just didnt put enough combat situations into the game. Needed a bloody palace.

 

[Jonathan Lanza]

I'm glad you enjoyed it, I'm glad to say that the game only gets better the more you play it and I think a lot of your issues with the combat will be solved once you get a clearer idea of what's going on. Some things to keep in mind in regards to what you said. I think one of the best things about the game is the ability to learn all this stuff on your own so I'll spoiler tag some of the answers if you don't wanna know it yourself.

- There's a way to consistently stun enemies Gun stinger + team attack will usually do the trick. If the enemy blocks like the Doora's then you throw in a Unite Bomb in there as well. Gun Cyclone also works wonders
- It's true though that even when comboing enemies you have to always keep an eye on what's going on around you. Consider the game a sort of back and forth, you get your chance to attack enemies and they get their chance to attack you. Being on the defense is just as important as being on the offense.
- I'm fairly sure every laser in the game can be blocked by the sword. I think it's understandable that on some level it can be hard to initially tell what counts as a slashing attack and what doesn't for Unite Guts but the game is very lenient with what mistakes you make so there's no harm in taking a few hits to figure out what does and doesn't work.
- The amount of wonderful ones you lose when you get hit is in proportion to how big your morph is. If you have a small fist and get hit you won't lose much if any at all. If you've got the max size one then and get hit you'll lose all of them and will have to go on the defensive for a bit. Think of it like a risk-reward scenario. Using a big morph gets you lots of damage and points but if you get hit or blocked then you'll lose a ton or members. On the flipside a smaller morph may do less damage but tend to move faster and you're less susceptible to getting blown up. You can switch up how you use your morphs based on what you need or want in any given situation
- There's a way to have your attacks blocked but not lose any members press the sprint button just as the attack hits a shield
- The same logic goes into the drawing. The Wonder liner is a full fledged weapon, it can even hurt enemies so you'll have to treat it as one. Enemies can knock your lines away so it's important to pay attention to where you're drawing things and how big you do it.


This isn't meant to reduce anything you said to "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!" but Wonderful 101 is a very different game from any action game ever made so you may have to adjust any notions about how things SHOULD work as the whole game is radically different. I liked my first playthrough but even I thought "this combat doesn't work" until I gave my hard mode go a shot and things really started to make sense.

So keep at it!

 

[ShadowFox08]

Is the framerate really bad as DF says? Have the game but almost want to hold out for better performance on a switch revision. This game has unlocked framerate from what I hear.

 

[Edge]

When's all the Kickstarter DLC stuff coming that they promised?

 

[Herb Alpert]

I replayed it last month and, Wow, I loved it even more than first time on WiiU.
Framerate can dip sometimes but I didn't find it annoying at all.

 

[Soul Lab]

If the combat were better I'd absolutely be onboard with this opinion. I thought the game was fantastic in most areas.

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I think it's the best combat system, when it clicks.

 

[darz1]

Ok, by the sounds of it, you haven't quite learned how to read the enemies. It sounds like you are about halfway there but the combat definitely opens up more as you learn a few more things.

You are correct in that enemies don't flinch or flash the same way as other Platinum games but they all definitely have tells and patterns that once you learn are actually quite fun to read and counter.

also, despite being rock paper scissor based, most enemies actually have more than one way to beat them, for example the turtles can be beaten by cracking their shell with unite hammer, or you can stun them by using unite spikes under their foot when they try stomp you then using unite punch to knock them into their backs.

also, you mention about needing to use unite bomb on enemies then switching, but there is a thing called multi unite which allows you to send out attacks of other unite forms without changing your main form. This was already a default ability in the wii u version but for some strange reason needs to be purchased from the shop in the remaster. Multi unite makes the combat a lot better and makes the game so much more fun, I have no idea why they made this change.

You mentioned drawing the shapes, you are right, it can be a bit cumbersome with the analog sticks, it was far easier to draw difficult shapes on the wii u game pad and get the the right size. There is a custom block that allows you to make your United bigger by holding a button, it can be really useful if you are having trouble.

to me the combat is actually one of platinums best and most fun, it has a lot of variety and depth, but it takes a long time to really master and the game does a terrible job at explaining it. I can't fault somebody for not sticking with it long enough to learn it because it really does take multiple play throughs.

It's up to you OP if you are wanting to stick with it or if you are happy to be done with it.

 

[darz1]

Oh and one more thing, GET THE UKEMI CUSTOM BLOCK.

you can pretty much bounce back from almost all hits and knock backs just by holding the jump button after you get hit. It's way OP

 

[danmaku]

You hit the nail right on the head about the combat problems, there are a lot of design choices that are puzzling to say the least. Like, why not give your team noclip while drawing? Yes, you can hit enemies with your line, but who cares. It's not worth the frustration of not being able to change weapon when you need it. At least, save it for the harder difficulty levels.

It's a game that's so brilliant as much as it is obtuse. I had to experience it once more this summer when I bought another copy of the game for a friend of mine and I had to watch him suffer through the first couple of missions. He struggled with the drawing system, failed all QTE and had no fun at all. He was only playing because I was there. Hint: if your game needs multiple playthroughs, don't make the first one a frustrating, confusing mess. TW101 is very generous with continues and checkpoints so you can brute force your way through the game even if you are terrible at it, but you won't have any fun (and the game will even mock you with a plastic trophy at the end of each level). Even beginners can tell when they're playing like shit, and it doesn't feel good.