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msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,876

This is one of the best scenes ever, period. I love the idea of imagery creating a feeling even without necessarily understanding everything it all means. That being said a lot of twin peaks just gets too convoluted and out there for me. I feel like in fire walk with me Lynch makes a comment about spelling this stuff out and how it impacts the viewers experience by having the dancing woman spelled out for you but maybe I misunderstood.

All that being said this scene is pretty straightforward especially compared to the rest of the show... The colors, the music, the lighting, the acting. It's absolute perfection. It hits so incredibly hard every single time.
 
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OP
OP
WhateverItTakes
Oct 25, 2017
6,332

This is one of the best scenes ever, period. I love the idea of imagery creating a feeling even without necessarily understanding everything it all means. That bei g said a lot of twin peaks just gets too convoluted and out there for me. I feel like in fire walk with me Lynch makes a comment about spelling this stuff out and how it impacts the viewers experience by having the dancing woman spelled out for you but maybe I misunderstood.

All that being said this scene is pretty straightforward especially compared to the rest of the movie... The colors, the music, the lighting, the acting. It's absolute perfection. It hits so incredibly hard every single time.

That scene is really great, especially in how it underlines how Maddie's death is a personal failing for Cooper.

Sheryl Lee has one of the most haunting screams.

A few hours in, I'm clocking how haunting that final scream in the street with the flash really is. And now I'm thinking about Laura staring at the angel at the end of FWWM.

And I need to get to sleep. God it's upsetting.
 

OneTrueJack

Member
Aug 30, 2020
4,639
That scene is really great, especially in how it underlines how Maddie's death is a personal failing for Cooper.



A few hours in, I'm clocking how haunting that final scream in the street with the flash really is. And now I'm thinking about Laura staring at the angel at the end of FWWM.

And I need to get to sleep. God it's upsetting.
One thing I really like about that closing moment is how it basically boils down Twin Peaks to its pure essence. The final thing we're left with is agent Cooper mulling over one last impossible mystery while Laura Palmer screams into the night at some unfathomable horror.

You can't get more Twin Peaks than that.
 

Juan29.Zapata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,354
Colombia
Those final minutes were painful for me, I was like "come on, we got 5 minutes left!", and in a certain way, it's hard to think it's probably the last of Twin Peaks we'll get from Lynch. I'm glad we got it, anyway, and it'll really continue to haunt me. I'm glad that we got to finish several arcs from the main series, at least.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
So, thematically my interpretation has always been that The Return is basically a pseudo/meta-commentary on the very idea of reviving Twin Peaks. It is literally and metaphorically a show about "returning" to Twin Peaks and why that might be a bad idea.

This is a copy of something I wrote on another forum.

The ending of The Return has only ever made sense to me when viewed exclusively through a meta lens. The whole series was a commentary on the very idea of bringing back Twin Peaks as a show. This eventually culminates in part 17 when the cliffhanger ending of season 2 is resolved fully. The doppelganger is defeated, Cooper is back, the show can resume.

Except it can't. Because there is no show. Because the show was about what happened to Laura Palmer and that has already been addressed, which led to the initial cancellation all those years ago. That's why the clock on the sheriff station wall is stuck. The show can't move forward without a narrative.

Cooper realising this goes back in time to FWWM and tries to rip Laura out of that film and force her into The Return. This goes wrong and Laura ends up in what seems to be a facsimile of the real world. Cooper follows after and does the only thing he can think of. Bring her back home (to Twin Peaks the TV show).

This is also why we see Cooper starting to lose himself. He's a fictional character that now exists outside of that universe. There's no narrative to give him structure, so he starts to forget who he is. Just as Laura clearly has, and probably Diane too.

But it doesn't work. Her home isn't there. It hasn't been there since 1991. So Cooper ask the million-dollar question. "What year is it?". Is it 1991 and we're all waiting for season 3 that fall? Or is it 2017 and the show has been dead for 25 years. We want it to be both, but it can't be. The paradox of that finally comes down on Laura as she realises what Cooper has done, so she screams.

The lights in the house (representing Twin Peaks as a show) go out and the screen fades. The show is dead. We tried to bring it back and we just ended up resurrecting the trauma of cancellation and forcing that existential trauma of non-existence on the characters themselves.

The curtain falls and the credits roll over and image of Laura whispering to Cooper in the Red Room. It's back where it was 25 years ago and this time we have to accept it.

Unless Lynch and Frost do another one, which I really hope is true

On a more literal level one interpretation that's quite popular is that Cooper is caught in some sort of loop. Not necessarily a time loop, but like a dream loop? That episodes 1-17 represent one loop, and then part 18 is a second loop. Hence the reset at the start of part 18.

That Cooper is doomed to keep doing this over and over. Forever falling through different dreams, desperately trying to save Laura Palmer/Carrie Page.

There's also been a lot of speculation that the new reality Cooper enters in Episode 18 is actually our world. We never see the famous "Welcome to Twin Peaks" sign when they enter the town, and the Double R Diner is actually missing its sign when they drive past it. Instead just looking how the diner does in real life. Finally, the woman who opens the door at Sarah Palmer's house is Mary Reber, the woman who actually owns the Palmer house in real life.
Well damn. Wasn't sure what to think of the ending but this reading makes me really love it.
 

Mary Celeste

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,195
My favorite thing about that final scene is the very faint "Laura!" call that Carrie hears just before she screams. It's actually a sample of Sarah calling up to her room at the start of the pilot.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
FOR THE LAST TIME

FOR THE LAST TIME

when I rewatched the show and shadow came on I was like "wait just a fucking minute!"

At night I'm driving in your car
Pretending that we leave this town
We're watching all the streetlights fade
And now you're just a stranger's dream
I took your picture from the frame
And though you're nothing like you seem
Your shadow fell like last night's rain
For the last time


who is the dreamer? well....

I love how twin peaks took the typical "the fans kept it alive" "this wouldn't exist without the fans" etc. pr speak for every years later reboot and flipped it into a disturbing meditation of a motion picture

even looking at something that seems 100% wholesome on its face with ed and norma getting together just takes a little scratch to peel back the layers. that seemed like the most fan servicey aspect of the return but for it to have been possible the characters of ed and norma had to have been kept in stasis for 25 years. they literally have not progressed at all as characters in 25 years. it's like when lucy talks about what happens to the thermostat when we aren't there to look at it
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,227
when I rewatched the show and shadow came on I was like "wait just a fucking minute!"

At night I'm driving in your car
Pretending that we leave this town
We're watching all the streetlights fade
And now you're just a stranger's dream
I took your picture from the frame
And though you're nothing like you seem
Your shadow fell like last night's rain
For the last time


who is the dreamer? well....

I love how twin peaks took the typical "the fans kept it alive" "this wouldn't exist without the fans" etc. pr speak for every years later reboot and flipped it into a disturbing meditation of a motion picture

even looking at something that seems 100% wholesome on its face with ed and norma getting together just takes a little scratch to peel back the layers. that seemed like the most fan servicey aspect of the return but for it to have been possible the characters of ed and norma had to have been kept in stasis for 25 years. they literally have not progressed at all as characters in 25 years. it's like when lucy talks about what happens to the thermostat when we aren't there to look at it

Yep it's like "aww we get a happy ending for Norma and Ed" and later you're like "jesus... they were miserable for 25 years"

I expected Lynch to take a much more "aware" approach to The Return, and he exceeded my expectations in that regard. It's like Frost wrote what fans would expect and Lynch "corrected" it.

Cool point about the songs though, I didn't really dig into the nitty gritty of the soundtrack outside of that Chromatics song and the NIN song. I figured it was mostly just bands Lynch wanted to highlight, but if they are writing in-universe songs then *woosh*

I just recently found out that that actor was the main character in Eraserhead and my mind was blown.

Yep he was in Booth's gang in Blue Velvet too iirc. He also had a bit part in Breaker Breaker, a Chuck Norris trucker movie that came out around the same time as Eraserhead.
 

OneTrueJack

Member
Aug 30, 2020
4,639
Cool point about the songs though, I didn't really dig into the nitty gritty of the soundtrack outside of that Chromatics song and the NIN song. I figured it was mostly just bands Lynch wanted to highlight, but if they are writing in-universe songs then *woosh*
The Roadhouse is kinda like the modern-day version of a Greek chorus. Simultaneously both in and out of the narrative. The Roadhouse itself gets weirder the more you think about it.
 

My Tulpa

alt account
Banned
Sep 19, 2021
1,132
Even a second of googling has the fact it's moved on in time underlined. Though the different names (Carrie, Richard and Linda) has me feeling we're in a whole new reality for all intents and purposes. Opens the door to surreal alt character moments. Maybe there was a hint in the RR sign too, though I didn't see anything obvious.

Twin Peaks always took place in 2017.

Every iteration of Twin Peaks, each season and the movie, is Cooper (if that is even his real name) slowly coming to the realization of who he really is.

Think of "The Return" as the last 30 minutes of Mulholland Drive or Lost Highway…the part where all the facade of the dream state is being pulled away and the protagonist is confronted with the crushing reality that they aren't the hero in the story.

The reason Laura Palmer tells Cooper "see you in 25 years" is because Cooper knows he's not really in the 80's, his dream state is. He knows he's in his 50's probably in a coma or close to death somehow.

The final 10 minutes of the finale really hits home with that dawning horror. We have felt that sense of foreboding behind every peeling wallpaper facade and behind every quirky character's smile, but Coopers journey away from Twin Peaks, and more into the real world, ratcheted that dread up to 11.

Cooper literally wakes up from a coma (or is it metaphorically lol) with an urgency of knowledge that Twin Peaks as a place is done. It never really existed. He gives a reluctant farewell to the cast of characters he created in his head that coddled him in his disassociative state, and moves on. The Director Lynch leads both Cooper and Diane out of that construct. (Which is perfect following Director Lynch's conversation with Monica Belluci in front of Lynch's museum in France discussing Cooper's dream state and a meta commentary on Lynch's own works being his own dreamstates where his characters are doppelgängers of himself)

The Return showed us Twin Peaks with great amounts of reality seeping in. It wasn't like the Twin Peaks we knew exactly, but it also wasn't fully realistic. The end of The Return says goodbye to Twin Peaks and almost completely takes off the mask. Almost. The quant 50's motel where Cooper and Diane stop turns into a generic modern one. The diner he stops at is no where near as idyllic as the Double R (Lynch toyed with this in FWWM too). The Cooper we see isn't the boyscout we knew and loved, nor the morose Bad Coop…but a more realistic combo.

As I said in a previous post, Audrey in this season was what the blue key was in Mullholland Drive. This season was always leading to Cooper finally waking up. The ending is unsettling horror because of this.

Its one of my favorite finales of any show ever (no matter how you interpret it, it's a great finale)


TL;DR Twin Peaks The Return is a show about making the best of your time on earth and helping your fellow man as best you can, and Cooper's decision to Go Big instead of Going Home winds up both ruining his life (again!) and damning those who were close to him to a worse life without him around.

I like that, but I honestly believe Cooper is really a bad man. Every time Lynch takes control of this world, he always leads us back to there.

I think what you are describing is what Cooper wishes his path was. Twin Peaks was his psyche creation to morphine out on that beautiful notion as an escape of how his real life is so the opposite of that. The journey we followed is a person desperate to run from their own crushing guilt of things they did in life…during the final firing of brain synapses towards their end. Exactly like Mullholland Drive and Lost Highway. Twin Peaks was always Lynch's long form version of this idea. Lynch has been pretty clear these 3 works are connected that way (as clear as Lynch can be)
 
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Helmholtz

Member
Feb 24, 2019
1,133
Canada
One of the neat things about a lot of Lynch's works (Twin Peaks, Mulholland, Lost Highway etc.) is that I've read different theories and interpretations on each of them that sound totally plausible. But none of them can really be 100% confirmed (unless Lynch himself decided to, which he's been pretty clear he will never do). And honestly I don't think I'd have it any other way, it really adds to the mystery and almost otherworldly vibes.
I'm also not entirely convinced Lynch himself intended for things to be fully explainable in a concrete way.
 
OP
OP
WhateverItTakes
Oct 25, 2017
6,332
So, having had some time to reflect on all this...

I'm missing twin peaks. I'm listening to Julee Cruise while playing FIFA for crying out loud. I'm looking to get the tie-in books by Mark Frost for Christmas so that should bring me back into that world in a cosy way. I'll admit I haven't been ruminating on much plot wise. Whatever's next needs more Wally Brando. And some time in Audrey's psychic dressing room.

I reckon there's an interesting parallel that Dougie Jones is a useful idiot who doesn't understand what's going on the whole time. But he simply goes with the flow, and even if he's technically replaced at one point, he gets the nuclear family white picket fence dream. Meanwhile, Cooper is rightous, tries to defy fate, has some success, but in the end, you get the sense he plays into Judy's hands, and in his arrogance, he doesn't get what he really wants. He didn't get Annie. He didn't get Diane/Linda. He didn't save Laura.

Chatting to a friend I understand more how the show is essentially speaking in abstract of the constant battle between good and evil, order and chaos, and within that, extolling the virtues of peace, connecting with the world around you, and appreciating the smaller things.

I'll have to rewatch Mulholland Drive with my newfound Sight, not to mention seeking out Eraserhead and Blue Velvet. Wild at Heart while I'm at it.
 

OneTrueJack

Member
Aug 30, 2020
4,639
If you're going to go full Lynch, you might as well start with Inland Empire, maybe you can make some sense from it.
Oh God no, Inland Empire should be the last thing you watch when you're doing a deep dive on Lynch. It's the most impenetrable thing he's ever made and easily the least pleasant to watch.
 

AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,704
So, having had some time to reflect on all this...

I'm missing twin peaks. I'm listening to Julee Cruise while playing FIFA for crying out loud. I'm looking to get the tie-in books by Mark Frost for Christmas so that should bring me back into that world in a cosy way. I'll admit I haven't been ruminating on much plot wise. Whatever's next needs more Wally Brando. And some time in Audrey's psychic dressing room.

I reckon there's an interesting parallel that Dougie Jones is a useful idiot who doesn't understand what's going on the whole time. But he simply goes with the flow, and even if he's technically replaced at one point, he gets the nuclear family white picket fence dream. Meanwhile, Cooper is rightous, tries to defy fate, has some success, but in the end, you get the sense he plays into Judy's hands, and in his arrogance, he doesn't get what he really wants. He didn't get Annie. He didn't get Diane/Linda. He didn't save Laura.

Chatting to a friend I understand more how the show is essentially speaking in abstract of the constant battle between good and evil, order and chaos, and within that, extolling the virtues of peace, connecting with the world around you, and appreciating the smaller things.

I'll have to rewatch Mulholland Drive with my newfound Sight, not to mention seeking out Eraserhead and Blue Velvet. Wild at Heart while I'm at it.

Check out the Diary of Laura Palmer as well! It's very upsetting in parts, just so you know but very worth the read.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
I need to rewatch inland empire but honestly not really lol

that movie threw me for a loop

the scene with the two homeless women is one of the most chilling things I've ever seen
 

OneTrueJack

Member
Aug 30, 2020
4,639
I'd go as far as to say Inland Empire isn't so much a thing you watch as a work you're meant to suffer through. The decision to shoot on DV cameras means everything looks absolutely awful.
Definitely. I've often likened the experience of watching Inland Empire to being forced to watch someone else's fever dream, If Lynch's career has been a process of him trying to capture and translate his dreams, then Inland Empire is Lynch's nightmare. A dark, unpleasant, nasty, confusing thing that makes you feel so uncomfortable and afraid for its duration.
 

ascagnel

Member
Mar 29, 2018
2,212
Definitely. I've often likened the experience of watching Inland Empire to being forced to watch someone else's fever dream, If Lynch's career has been a process of him trying to capture and translate his dreams, then Inland Empire is Lynch's nightmare. A dark, unpleasant, nasty, confusing thing that makes you feel so uncomfortable and afraid for its duration.
I first watched it while I was on paternity leave, and I feel like that was maybe the best way to watch it: in short fragments, while low on sleep, and constantly struggling to understand what was put in front of me.