LTTP: TLoU Part 2 - so uhh, why were people bitching and moaning on release day?

[doemaaan]

Because I just recently completed the game and it was an IN-credible experience. There aren't that many developers that can craft something as superb as this. It's literally the complete (single player) package. Massive story, top notch graphics, stable performance, beautiful environments and great level design, pacing that keeps you vested, fantastic acting with believable characters and motivations, then even MORE story when you think it's over... And let's not forget all the twists! I mean, come on. It's the whole shabang all bundled up into this singular, almost surreal achievement. From the moment the credits started to roll, I had to wrap my head around just how top-tier the experience was. How much WORK was probably involved in making this game a reality. I have so much respect for teams like Naughty Dog, being able to craft powerful experiences like this... and while I know it's not all sunshine and rainbows with the whole "crunch" thing, that's a subject for another thread.

What was accomplished here was nothing short of amazing and I understand that some people will think it's "the perfect game" and others will not, but after my playthough, it's hard for me to take anyone seriously if they say this game was trash.

So, put yourselves in my shoes. It's release day and you're doing your very best to stay away from spoilers, but there's this Category 5 backlash happening seemingly everywhere online. Anywhere with the slightest connection to "gaming" had something to say about TLoU P2. It was trending on twitter, there were multiple threads on reddit and resetera... Again, I did my very best to stay shy of spoilers, but it wasn't hard to see that people were unsettled with something regarding the game. Throwing their digital pitchforks in the digital air.

Time passes and here I am. Completed it 7 months later. Had no idea what to expect. Hooray for me 🙌.

Now can someone tell me? What the hell was everyone's problem back in the beginning?

Spoiler: tlou p2 spoileys

please don't tell me it was because joel died.
what a juvenile thing to cry over.

^It had to be more than that...

 

[Pankratous]

The spoiler you mentioned in the OP is pretty much it.

Probably also because people realized Ellie was gay (having not played Left Behind), and they are massively homophobic.

 

[Ryuelli]

Spoiler: tlou p2 spoileys

please don't tell me it was because joel died.
what a juvenile thing to cry over.

Click to shrink...

Not only that, but then they had the audacity to make you play as not just 1 but 2 girls!

 

[ClickyCal']

That was infact the main thing, yes.

 

[Nexus2049]

I, for one, am glad so-and-so did not have plot armor this time around.

 

[Aaron D.]

Half of it was GG pushback. The other half was game criticism such as dour subject material (during a pandemic), genre fatigue, plot conflicts (murder vacation), etc.

Credible criticism of the game was poisoned by the former and it's basically been impossible to discuss since day one.

 

[Sprat]

I just found it boring. But I didn't kick up a fuss I just sold it and moved on.

 

[RecLib]

These threads are going to be common forever eh?

Take a mix of misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and people just being mad about the early story moment you mention.

 

[CaptainKashup]

Girl has muscle but no boobies ? Me no likey.

 

[PandemicOdin]

I'm always super reserve talking about this game because of the toxicity around it but yeah OP you nailed it on the head. I think there are aspects of the game that people can find questionable and not even like but those are drowned out by the bigots, transphobics and misogyny around the conversation of this game. I for one found the game riveting and most of all, the gameplay is Naughty Dogs best work and it's not close

 

[IIFloodyII]

On launch day specifically was because they were mostly bigots who hated the game long before release.
A lot of people definitely never got over that though, unfortunately the bigots poisoned the conversation long before it released, which is a shame as I do think it could have been some good conversations spawned from it, similarly to TLoU 1's ending, but eh, maybe eventually.

 

[HardRojo]

Plenty of people read the leaks and decided at that point that they'd hate the game no matter what. There's valid criticism to be had, as with any piece of media, but said criticism was dwarfed by the army of misogynistic and intolerant bigots.

 

[CJCW?]

Some people hated the game for stupid reasons, and others just thought it was underwhelming. These groups don't really have anything in common.

 

[KAMI-SAMA]

What does LTTP mean?

Also yeah a bunch of whiners wanted to hate on it but couldn't stop people from enjoying it.

 

[ThisOne]

The game is absolutely one of the best single player experiences of all video games for me. I'm still disappointed that it didn't release with multiplayer and sad that we still haven't heard about a multiplayer component being added. Honestly, that's my only complaint.

 

[Rosebud]

Release day? I wish lol

People were angry since it was leaked (and for some reason every angry youtuber was sure Abby was trans and it was a big agenda by ND)

 

[Bradford]

What does LTTP mean?

Click to shrink...

Late to the party

people use it when they are posting about things or coming to games late. It's a popular forum topic archetype that has its roots in previous forums.

 

[Roytheone]

I didn't like it but wouldn't call it trash. Just not my thing.

And yeah the people at launch hating it without playing it where just crying, sad man babies that should be ignored. Fuck them.

Doesn't mean obviously that everyone disliking it fall in that category, and anyone suggesting that are poisoning the discussion. I put a couple of people on my ignore list that basically said anyone disliking the game HAS to be a bigot.....

 

[ClickyCal']

The game is absolutely one of the best single player experiences of all video games for me. I'm still disappointed that it didn't release with multiplayer and sad that we still haven't heard about a multiplayer component being added. Honestly, that's my only complaint.

Click to shrink...

They announced last year that they are making a separate multiplayer. No word on it yet, but it's happening.

 

[Aurongel]

Long story short:

Key game details leaked prior to release and gave bad faith actors and those types of misogynistic basement dwelling forum warriors fuel to create anti-feminist and hateful YouTube content that itself turned into a self-perpetuating cycle. It's ironic that a central theme of the game is what happens to good people when they can't adjust their preconceived notions and biases towards an enigmatic "other". The toxic pre-release discourse for the game was driven by a minority of bad faith individuals who signal boosted their toxic views unchallenged.

The game isn't perfect but I do take a certain ironic satisfaction with how many of the people who were biased towards hating it before they even played it are basically the exact types of tribalistic idiots that the game explicitly critiques.

 

[deadmonkeyuk]

My game of the generation, loved it. Acting, Story, Audio, Gameplay, Chefs Kiss.

Was able to avoid most spoilers before playing. Did go in after reading twice that Abby was transsexual. The Internet is a very weird place.

 

[Team_Feisar]

Buff woman not fuckable

Spoiler

also, yes, the jeol thing
Embarrassing

 

[Ringten]

The Joel thing is not the reason for people bitching about it. I feel like that's just an excuse for most (not all) to hide their true opinion.

The same people would have loved it if Ellie went on a crazy murder spree and killed Abbey, and that the death of Joel justified her.

The problem these bigots have is with Abby. They can't deal with playing as a strong female (who killed their hero).
If you by accident ever check reddit or some shitty YouTube comments it's all about her appearance. Oh and Lev too.

Buff woman not fuckable

Click to shrink...

Basically

 

[Nexus2049]

Buff woman not fuckable

Click to shrink...

The game makes it clear thats not true too 😉

 

[Piggus]

Only a game like this—critically acclaimed, an absolute technical marvel, animation and storytelling on a completely different level that pushes the medium forward, highly dynamic and intense gameplay—could have such dumb, pointless "controversy" around it.

Some people act like they have ownership over their favorite characters and their fates, and it's soooo fucking lame to watch it play out in Facebook comments and whatnot, where people continue to whine about the game at every chance. Nobody has to enjoy a story but the meltdowns over certain story decisions are proof that a lot of people don't understand some of the key themes of the series and only want the story to coddle them.

 

[Min]

I just wasn't a fan of how each scenario had to one up itself in terms of violence, e.g. the systemic violence plot is largely swept aside for the individual revenge narrative and mainly there for a genocide set piece. The characters felt more archetypal than actual characters (Abby's identity for the most part is a foil to Ellie and parallels a lot of Ellie's backstory and emotional arc) and came into and out of the plot for set pieces. The story was focused more on Joel than Ellie. The end scenario became such a comedy of errors that the violence depicted became a parody of itself and had me rolling my eyes towards the end, so the "even MORE story when you think it's over" probably actually ruined the game for me.

 

[Zebesian-X]

Pre-release leaks revealed out-of-context spoilers, giving people weeks to stew in anger over their favourite character being murdered, leading them to make up their minds about the game before they even got to play it.

Not to mention the sexism and homophobia powering the hate, making up the majority of the reason why the mob against this game had so much staying power leading up to launch.

Resetera was actually kind of a blessing for TLOU 2, it was great being able to read people's thoughts on this game, positive and negative, without having to sift through the bullshit found anywhere else related to the game.

 

[Deleted member 8468]

The spoiler you posted is one of the main ones.

I had some issues with the pacing in the final act, and could understand that turning folks off. Multiple times I said out loud "I just don't want to do this any more," and I understand that's part of the point, but it didn't make me enjoy those parts. Overall I loved it, but I can see some folks having a bad taste in their mouth from the final few hours.

I'll also say even though I loved the gameplay, and thought the story was powerful, I'm not in a rush to replay it any time soon. It takes place in a harsh world and it's filled with people doing terrible things to each other. Not the type of media I want to watch right now, and I have a few friends in the same boat.

 

[Lionheart]

Its an incredible achievement and honestly one of the best made games I've personally played. Its so rare to get a game this good, I'm playing control and enjoying it but it's like 1/5th the quality of Tlou2.

take everything away and the gameplay still shines. Its so intense andthe mechanics are awesome. I have issues with some of the plot and some of the forced walking segments but none of the ganeplay is comprised like a lot of other games that try and do it all. Man i need to replay it, i didn't even use the explosive arrows for example. Come on Sony patch it for ps5

 

[Winstano]

The basic shitstorm erupted because

Spoiler: SPOILER

Joel dies, Abi is trans

was the narrative of spoilers and leaks beforehand, and people are whining fucking children. We got *SO MUCH* hate for our review because we called the bullshit out in our review

 

[JusDoIt]

Misogyny, for the most part.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I remember when the credits started rolling I just thought "I just witnessed one of those rare gaming experiences that won't happen anytime soon"

I'm still thinking about it and I still think about this game from time to time

 

[spman2099]

Plenty of people read the leaks and decided at that point that they'd hate the game no matter what. There's valid criticism to be had, as with any piece of media, but said criticism was dwarfed by the army of misogynistic and intolerant bigots.

Click to shrink...

This was especially true early on. The further away from the release we get, the more good faith criticism you are going to encounter. That being said, there is still a lot of shitty people who hate TLOU2 for the worst reasons imaginable. Some of these people still post thinly veiled rants about the game. As per usual, the shitheads ruin things for everyone.

 

[Rosebud]

The game makes it clear thats not true too 😉

Click to shrink...

So many misogynists were outed with that.

 

[Darknight]

Spoiler: SPOILER

Abi is trans

Click to shrink...

Wait, what? Did I miss something in the story?

 

[Skeeter49]

Your spoiler tag is the maIn non bigot reason. While i don't agree, it's at least a big reason to hate the game that i can grasp.

There are people who think the game has an agenda against men, that think the game has female leads, gay, bi, etc, to be woke, and a bunch of other reasons.

There are also the people who don't like the story/ violence and that's fine, but they weren't the people attacking the game and devs day 1.

 

[bombermouse]

Most of it is what you mentioned. It was homophobia (Ellie), antisemitism (Dina), transphobia (Abby for some stupid reason (she is not really trans) and the kid) and toxic masculinity (Joel)

Personally I found the game way too long. You can't maintain a serious tone for 35 hours. I also didn't enjoy the blue balling in the middle of the game, knowing full well I will have to play another 15 hours to see the resolution. I think every playable character was a terrible human being and I can deal with that, the story was interesting, but not enough to hold my attention for 35 hours with (for me) boring gameplay. I dropped the game on 2-2 and just watched the ending on youtube.

 

[eXistor]

Can't say I agree. I wasn't invested in it much past the 10 hour mark. Nothing to do with story or any of that, it's just that the game had run its course by then in terms of gameplay. The loop gets boring and repetitive pretty quickly and the terrible pacing didn't help much. It was a big improvement over the first game in terms of level design I'll give it that, but I need more than story to keep me interested (and honestly I thought the narrative was pretty bad as well).

Outside of the technical prowess and some amazing attention to detail I didn't care for it much.

 

[Temascos]

An absolutely landmark game, props to ND for pulling it off (Although I hope next time they are able to better represent black people and not have cultural crunch exhausting developers).

Most of the hate stemmed from what was already said, neatly summed up as:

Spoiler

Joel dies.
Joel dies VIA GOLF
Joel's killer lives, and you play as HER (Yes, being a woman is considered an "Agenda" nowadays)
Joel's killer is Trans (Except she's not, also WTF)
Ellie is a Lesbian.
Ellie's lesbian girlfriend is Jewish (Because AGENDA)

I can understand more logical criticisms, such as people not gelling with the new characters as well as the old ones (I took me 2 playthroughs to like some of them who I originally HATED) and thinking that the game goes on for too long, but most of the time if someone is criticising TLOU2 it was often at the angles mentioned in the spoiler tags.

 

[AllChan7]

Basically for the reason you mentioned and the fact you play as a certain muscle bound woman.

There is legitimate criticism to be made against the game but I cannot for the life of me take anyone seriously who thinks the game is utter trash.

I personally have it as my second favorite game of the gen and it is for every reason you mentioned. And don't let the hate bother you. The game was beloved more than it was hated and the recognition it received is proof of that

 

[SnatcherHunter]

Wait, what? Did I miss something in the story?

Click to shrink...

No. That was Lev

 

[Skeeter49]

Wait, what? Did I miss something in the story?

Click to shrink...

No. In a leak it was revealed

Spoiler

there was a trans characterand people assumed it was Abby because of her build, which is what started the ND is woke controversy. Abby isnt trans though, just stupid logic from bigots.

 

[NunezL]

My obligatory contribution for the haters:

 

[Darknight]

No. That was Lev

Click to shrink...

No. In a leak it was revealed

Spoiler

there was a trans characterand people assumed it was Abby because of her build, which is what started the ND is woke controversy. Abby isnt trans though, just stupid logic from bigots.

Click to shrink...

Okay, I thought I somehow missed some key dialog or something. Not that there would have been anything wrong with it; I just didn't realize it was an issue is all so someone mentioning it kind of threw me a bit.

 

[Yappa]

Mainly what you mentioned yourself, OT. Personally didn't bother me but I can understand that not everybody felt like that.
The other stuff were complaints by a loud minority.

 

[Skeeter49]

I remember when the credits started rolling I just thought "I just witnessed one of those rare gaming experiences that won't happen anytime soon"

I'm still thinking about it and I still think about this game from time to time

Click to shrink...

2nd game to ever make me cry.

 

[Donniewahlberg]

Since OP is literally asking, I thought it was badly paced and overly on the nose . But also I enjoyed a good amount of it and think its totally understable that a bunch of folks loved it.

 

[arcadepc]

The basic shitstorm erupted because

Spoiler: SPOILER

Joel dies, Abi is trans

was the narrative of spoilers and leaks beforehand, and people are whining fucking children. We got *SO MUCH* hate for our review because we called the bullshit out in our review

Click to shrink...

there would not have been such strong reactions if :

Spoiler

first half you play as Joel and/or Ellie, second part you play as Abbie and she kills Joel /Ellie in the finale or is killed by them.

Because there were no reactions to that extent with TLOU1 DLC either. It is just that the fanbase was too much invested in Joel and Ellie, which was also problematic with some tropes too.

I'd rather see Uncharted 6 than a drama like this again.

 

[Skeeter49]

Okay, I thought I somehow missed some key dialog or something. Not that there would have been anything wrong with it; I just didn't realize it was an issue is all so someone mentioning it kind of threw me a bit.

Click to shrink...

Some people do have legit issues with Lev in terms of how ND handles him.

 

[Winstano]

Wait, what? Did I miss something in the story?

Click to shrink...

As mentioned, it was just because

Spoiler

Abby was built like a brick shithouse

that people had a problem and had formed that opinion. Fucking morons.