I didn't care much for Picard season 1, but I would love to see them meet again and have some kind of reconciliation.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
LTTP: Star Trek: Deep Space 9
- Thread starter derFeef
- Start date
The thing with the filler episodes is, due to how well-written the characters are, and the fact that it's very much a serialised show, they serve to give the characters more time to develop their relationships without having some super important plot get in the way. During its better seasons I thought this was done quite masterfully (as there was usually something in the filler episode's B plot to link it into the overall narrative anyway).
But yeah, best Trek, best captain (though Jean Luc is more or less tied), and... best TV show.
But yeah, best Trek, best captain (though Jean Luc is more or less tied), and... best TV show.
Seasons 1, 2, and 7 can be a bit rough but otherwise it's my favourite Trek series by a long shot.
Things snapping back to the status quo hurt those one off or filler episodes with intensive character development though. Quark and Odo always reset to the same status they had during season 1 even though they had several life changing moments together over the years. This is true for all of the characters, the presence of filler episodes or character centric one offs which are never referenced again just highlights that even more.
Man some of the shit that happened to the Chief should have scarred him forever, it's just gone by the next episode.
I recently went into binge watching a Star Trek and couldn't decide between this & Voyager.
I had fond memories of Voyager but on watching a few episodes those memories were trashed and instead just finished a 7 season binge of DS9
Sisko was absolute boss in it
I skipped an awful lot of 7 though as the Kai just really got on my nerves
I think the most powerful episode for me though was episode "The Visitor" Season 4 Episode 3
"In this episode, an accident leaves Captain Benjamin Sisko frozen in time, leaving Jake with a lifelong obsession of rescuing his father while having his resolve tested when they briefly reunite every few decades."
I had fond memories of Voyager but on watching a few episodes those memories were trashed and instead just finished a 7 season binge of DS9
Sisko was absolute boss in it
I skipped an awful lot of 7 though as the Kai just really got on my nerves
I think the most powerful episode for me though was episode "The Visitor" Season 4 Episode 3
"In this episode, an accident leaves Captain Benjamin Sisko frozen in time, leaving Jake with a lifelong obsession of rescuing his father while having his resolve tested when they briefly reunite every few decades."
I guess you're right about the chief, poor guy! I'd argue against Quark and Odo resetting to the status quo though; that actually made sense for their relationship, where most of the development happens beneath the surface. What happened in their stories together did affect their relationship, but Odo's character made sure they did not become closer to each other - again, on the surface at least. If it had gone the other way, I don't think it would have spoken to the characters as much.
the low key best ep in the series for me was "tacking into the wind" - it's a season 7 ep so I'd love to know how you found it when you get that far OP.
DS9 was so good
DS9 was so good
My unpopular DS9 opinion is that the early seasons are better than most people give them credit for. Season 1 was probably the weakest season of the series but Season 2 is great. So much of what the series does later was building on the character development of S2, and the slow introduction of the Dominion was great. I even liked the Bajor-centric episodes which everybody seems to hate.
On the other hand, I think the Bajor episodes in later seasons (after the Pah-Wraiths are introduced) are notably worse.
On the other hand, I think the Bajor episodes in later seasons (after the Pah-Wraiths are introduced) are notably worse.
I'm just starting season 5 for the first. Really enjoyed seasons 3 & 4, but man the juxtaposition in tones from comedy to super serious can be jarring and very inconsistent at times. Like it would work better if certain serious story lines weren't continued into or mixed into super goofball episodes and moments. I enjoy laughing out loud at dumb star trek, but Odo cracking relationship joke 1 liners out of nowhere while his friends are at risk of dying in war is kinda wtf. A lot of the relationship stuff in general is wtf tbh.
Best Trek. No doubt about it. Fantastic characters, stories, overarching plot, good change of pace with the setting too.
Yes to all, except action. I am not particularly attracted to the action. The rest can be a really good what-if and/or moral exploration, and/or just a good sci-fi romp.
Yes to all, except action. I am not particularly attracted to the action. The rest can be a really good what-if and/or moral exploration, and/or just a good sci-fi romp.
DS9 was the first trek series I watch to completion and is amazing. I had only ever watched next gen and ds9 as a kid when my dad would watch it but decided to watch ds9 about 6 years ago.
I then went into next gen thinking it wouldn't top ds9 but It became my favorite about midway in. Picard,Data and the rest of the crew are just too good. I do love Quark,sisko(who becomes more interesting as the show goes on),Garak and the rest as well. Next Gens high's are just sooo good.
This seems like reaching to me. The guy didnt invent space station fiction and he cant possibly think that paramount would not be able to make a space station shoe just becuase they reviewed his script. Sure they obviously got the idea of doing a show on a space station from the script but that's where it ends imo. I'm sure he read a book or two that involved space stations at some point in his life before creating the script lol.
Granted I have only seen the first season of babylon 5. Amazon needs to get the rest of the season back on prime becuase it was great.
I then went into next gen thinking it wouldn't top ds9 but It became my favorite about midway in. Picard,Data and the rest of the crew are just too good. I do love Quark,sisko(who becomes more interesting as the show goes on),Garak and the rest as well. Next Gens high's are just sooo good.
Babylon 5 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This seems like reaching to me. The guy didnt invent space station fiction and he cant possibly think that paramount would not be able to make a space station shoe just becuase they reviewed his script. Sure they obviously got the idea of doing a show on a space station from the script but that's where it ends imo. I'm sure he read a book or two that involved space stations at some point in his life before creating the script lol.
Granted I have only seen the first season of babylon 5. Amazon needs to get the rest of the season back on prime becuase it was great.
When I watched the DS9 documentary, they talked about how it was important to Avery to be able to portray a strong black father-son relationship between Benjamin and Jake and I had honestly never thought about that, but listening to him and Cirroc Lofton talk about it (and how the actors formed a bond off-camera) made me tear up a bit. I feel like Sisko was by far the most well-developed character of all the ST captains. He felt human, and his character goes through a transformative arc throughout the series.
This show was honestly pretty groundbreaking in a lot of subtle ways for its time.
I'm pretty sure I'll like DS9 once I get into it, but I keep starting it and losing interest. The beginning isn't bad or anything, but it kind of drags on with all the exposition and I just never end up coming back.
Is it like TNG where it's better to skip the beginning? Or should I stick with it until it picks up?
Is it like TNG where it's better to skip the beginning? Or should I stick with it until it picks up?
Speaking mainly from TNG, the biggest strength is the storylines and themes, with (at times) great character development and settings. There isn't a whole lot of action and what's there isn't amazing (though sometimes fun). The episodes are mainly carried by a core theme that is explored throughout the story.
There are a handful of story arcs that reccur throughout the series, though the majority of episodes are essentially standalone (again, in TNG).
The episode quality can be pretty inconsistent at times, which can be a problem in the weaker seasons, but when it's good it's really good.
That should be easier now while I'm stuck at home. Everything about DS9 sounds right up my alley but I've never made it past the first 2-3 episodes.
Last edited:
As a massive Star Trek fan, B5 is better but DS9 is not far behind.
Statistical Probabilities might be one of the dumbest Star Trek episodes.
Bashir isn't Bashir, they changed his character for this episode just for the sake of it. The story is inauthentic, implausible and the acting horrible.
As if the federation is going to declar/surrender to war because of 3 "mutants"
Bashir isn't Bashir, they changed his character for this episode just for the sake of it. The story is inauthentic, implausible and the acting horrible.
As if the federation is going to declar/surrender to war because of 3 "mutants"
Two words: synth ale. The guy has seen some shit and is a functioning alcoholic drowning his sorrows.
Wasnt a huge fan of that one. i like the premise but the quirky characters were a little much. i dont recall Bashir being out of character though? Admittedly i havent seen it in years so in what respect is he different?
Seems out of place for Bashir to bond with this people, even if they share his intelligence. His "we will all die!" scream in Quarks was also rather weird.
I know he is supposed to be struck by the statistics and numbers and the "truth" they bring, but even unsteady Bashir would question the whole thing a bit.
It always felt very much in character to me. Bashir is obsessive, melodramatic, and driven by a stalwart beleif in the supremacy of science and knowledge. Him going somewhat off the deep end because of a persuasive, data-driven argument that all is lost is unsurprising.
He is. He seemed a bit easy to persuade though and he even explains the fault in the statistics to them at the end, which should have never passed by him.
Garak is still the best character in all of Trek.
The follow-up novels go some way to correcting those mistakes, at least. Ironically, Babylon 5 got it right, even though it was maligned at the time for wrapping up its main conflict "too early" - JMS knew from the start that the story was about the station, not the war.
Pushing Bajor aside to go all-in on the Dominion was one of the series' bigger misfires. Specifically,
they should have wrapped up the Dominion War early enough that they could deal with the consequences, and ended the series with Bajor joining the Federation.
The follow-up novels go some way to correcting those mistakes, at least. Ironically, Babylon 5 got it right, even though it was maligned at the time for wrapping up its main conflict "too early" - JMS knew from the start that the story was about the station, not the war.
This is also one of my main complaints. Not reading that spoiler so we will see...
The Jem'Hadar have gone from the unstoppable force to "they will show up and disappear again bceause they are no threat" race as well. Really not interesting and that makes the while disappearance of the Bajor plot even more sad.
I disliked those episodes a lot because it seemed to be addressing 'people who fall through the cracks of society', and this grand utopia's answer was still to lock them up. It wasn't really explained why, except perhaps for Jack, they needed to be actually detained in the way they were (?)
Although maybe this was the point, in DS9's larger theme of dismantling the idea of a utopia. But I dunno, it still was disappointing. All these characters sitting around after dinner debating these people while they stay locked in a cargo bay...with very little challenging of the morality of it. Bashir's grandiose 'there but for the grace of god go I'... there was little done to demonstrate what was actually 'wrong' with them, to what extent they were actually harmful to others (again, except Jack, if memory serves me), other than their eccentricity. It really made me root against the 'consensus' of the episode and its main characters... although again, maybe this was the point.
I have not thought about that aspect too much and you are totally right. In the context of Bashir being there, as the one not being in lockdown and the perfect incarnation of genetic enhancment... even weirder now when I think of it.
Incredible show. One thing that really surprised and impressed me was how black of a show it was. It really demonstrates how race can be surfaced and discussed intelligently in a fictional post-racial setting (which is often used as an excuse to ignore this topic altogether).
I will second the feeling that the romantic relationships were all over the place. Oddly enough the most believable ones had an inverse relationship to the amount of screen time given to them. I bought into most of quarks 1-shot girlfriends way more than any of the ones between main characters. Quark of all people!
The documentary is pretty good, it's touching to see how much these actors love the show and each other after all this time. I only wish they didn't drop so many really interesting topics--a fact the documentary itself pokes fun at during the credits.
I will second the feeling that the romantic relationships were all over the place. Oddly enough the most believable ones had an inverse relationship to the amount of screen time given to them. I bought into most of quarks 1-shot girlfriends way more than any of the ones between main characters. Quark of all people!
The documentary is pretty good, it's touching to see how much these actors love the show and each other after all this time. I only wish they didn't drop so many really interesting topics--a fact the documentary itself pokes fun at during the credits.
Yeah, watching that scene develop I expected Bashir to explode in righteous indignation at the arrogance of the others, for 'his people'... instead it's kind of 'oh, aren't I lucky, non-genetically-engineered pals, that you've accepted me as normal?'. As they proceed to sip from their after dinner drinks. It's all very god complex and, iirc, there's very little call out of it in the ep. Although I could be remembering it worse than it actually was!
(I digress... overall, I loved ds9.)
There are some essential stories that set up later episodes, and there are some outright great episodes sprinkled throughout the first three seasons. I would just look up am essentials list, and if past tense parts 1 and 2 aren't on there I would still watch them because it is one of the best trek two parters imo.
I just saw the episode in s5 where Odo hooks up with a lady and I'm super curious about the mechanics of it but not curious enough to dive into the wild world of star trek fan explanations of changeling sexual emulation. I aint about to google "How does Odo's dick work".
I am at the last season now and I can already feel the end a bit.
Quality wise the last few episodes were a bit... mixed. They seem to be pulling strings from wherever they need them.
. Not sure why they needed to bring in Ezri really - the season would have more room to finalize the story and not develop a new character with such a difficult background.
Quality wise the last few episodes were a bit... mixed. They seem to be pulling strings from wherever they need them.
The Dukat pah ghost stuff was just silly
Yeah, getting Indiana Jones in Star Trek was a misfire. And Ezri had a horrible intro. She gets "warp sick" and throws up all over the console. She steals a runabout and then fakes radio static with her mouth to Sisko over the comm link.
I am currently at Episode 11.
Oh and the Vic Fontaine stuff... don't get me started. One episode was okay, but having it a reoccurring story-resolver is just bad.
Last edited:
Never actually read that far ahead - only stuck to the novels that I thought would fit into a hypothetical 8th season. Once everything starts crossing over with everything else, it all gets a bit much!
Disagree on that one. That Nog episode was great with showing the effects of PTSD.
Forever my favorite Star Trek show. Love the crew, actors, storytelling, etc etc. And best Captain for SURE
Yeah the Vic and Nog episode is one of the best in the series.
That said I never loved the final season of DS9. The way the story wrapped up and the addition of Ezri (Who is a great actress I'm not blaming her at all) was just not great imo.
Still seasons 2-6 are the best in Star Trek and imo no other series got the crew right as well as DS9 did. I love basically every person on that station.
That said I never loved the final season of DS9. The way the story wrapped up and the addition of Ezri (Who is a great actress I'm not blaming her at all) was just not great imo.
Still seasons 2-6 are the best in Star Trek and imo no other series got the crew right as well as DS9 did. I love basically every person on that station.
I was actually just watching that and I agree that it is a good episode, very heartfelt. It was just a bit much of Fontaine in consecutive episodes.