TNG's penultimate episode connects to DS9 with the
Marquis
Chain of Command
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LTTP: Star Trek. All the Star Trek (Finished: TOS show/films / Currently: TNG S5)
- Thread starter More_Badass
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TNG's penultimate episode connects to DS9 with the
Also, Birthright Part I connects to Deep Space Nine.
Bashir appears in the episode and Geordi and Worf have dinner on the promenade.
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Three episodes into TNG (or four given the two-part pilot); it's been quite an adjustment. Growing pains would be an understatement here. So far, S1 has felt like a very volatile struggle between wanting to be like TOS and wanted to be something different, to the detriment of both aims. So far, the show's been checking off (or literally redoing) Original Series formula tropes - the cosmic god, the intoxication virus, Elaan of Troyius' traditions x Arena's battle - and doing them worse or in far less interesting fashion
Aside from Picard, everyone else just…exists or irritates; I really miss that TOS chemistry and immediate sense of assured characterization. But Patrick Stewart's Picard is a highlight and really the main hook right now; looking forward to his character being more developed
Aside from Picard, everyone else just…exists or irritates; I really miss that TOS chemistry and immediate sense of assured characterization. But Patrick Stewart's Picard is a highlight and really the main hook right now; looking forward to his character being more developed
S1 is quite rough. Even S2, while an improvement, still has rough edges. It is in S3 that the series actually improves. Coincidentally, while investigating, it seems S3 is when Roddenberry started having less involvement with the series.
Let's not overcomplicate things, the shows aren't really connected outside of minor references, it's perfectly fine two watch one after the other.
There's 2 TNG episodes with DS9 cast member guest stars, but I don't think either would be all that confusing if you didnt watch DS9, as in both cases they play minor roles (one is just a brief viewscreen conversation)
For me TNG never really nailed the character chemistry part. Or maybe it's was just Beverly and Troi. Their interactions with rest of the crew never felt fluent.
On the other hand you have Data&Geordie combo that is one of the best in whole Trek universe. Worf will eventually become good character and his interactions with most of the crew works well. Picard's interactions are well constructed, the tug of war between "professional" conduct and personal friendship with the crew is great trait in his character.
DS9 is the show that really nails the cast chemistry. It works out from the start and never feels out of place. But anyway, hope you will enjoy TNG. I still think it's my favorite, much as I like DS9 I just have to say TNG is more re watchable of them two.
It is quite disappointing how TNG treated its female cast. At least DS9 is an improvement in this regard.
Agreed. Troi and Crusher really never had a chance. When they did build something interesting around them they pushed all the development into the far corner by next episode. DS9 was great with it's women. Even space Karen aka Vedek Winn was well build character with motives that you would eventually understand.
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Halfway through TNGS1: so does Riker become more than not-Kirk past this season?
Currently the episodes I've liked have been
- The Big Goodbye
- Where No One Has Gone Before
- Datalore
The growing pains are real. Still haven't acclimated to the new crew, although I can tell I'm going to love Picard and Worf as they get properly developed
Currently the episodes I've liked have been
- The Big Goodbye
- Where No One Has Gone Before
- Datalore
The growing pains are real. Still haven't acclimated to the new crew, although I can tell I'm going to love Picard and Worf as they get properly developed
Eh. He goes on to become "guy struggling to understand his ambitions" (which is pretty interesting), and then to mostly being "guy who asks the laymen questions for the audience" (which is not very interesting).
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11001001 finally felt like a TNG episode proper, an episode that hinged on these characters and their chemistry and felt unique to this show's strengths to decent effect, rather than trying to be TOS (and floundering in the attempt).
Still not sold on most of the crew but this ep finally sold me on the Capt. Picard-1st Off. Riker dynamic as something as potentially engaging as Kirk and Spock
Still not sold on most of the crew but this ep finally sold me on the Capt. Picard-1st Off. Riker dynamic as something as potentially engaging as Kirk and Spock
Also Ronald D. Moore. He made a significant impact, especially on the Klingons.
At the risk of stating the obvious, the crew really grows as the seasons progress. It's part of the reason that unless someone has time constraints, I think it's a good idea to watch the whole thing from start to end (even the two infamously dreadful and offensive episodes in S1, Code of Honor and Angel One, just to know what the fuss is all about).
The whole thing is episodic of course but there are moments of continuity with characterizations, and the actors themselves get more comfortable in their roles as time goes on in a very noticeable way.
Picard in particular has several memorable episodes after the first couple seasons where you'll ideally see why he became such a popular and well-regarded character. Data also.
I just saw the Inner Light for the first time yesterday, man, what a masterclass of an episode, the ability to say so much and convey the passage of time in 50 minutes or less in such an impactful way, anyway who's cutting onions? sappy feels intensified.
I'm pretty sure you'll grow to like Riker. He gets several good character building episodes in season 2 that he is either at the center of or plays a major role in. They cement his character as ultimately being different than Kirk. By season 3, you'll feel very differently about him.
There are also two Voyager cameos as well.
Technically there's a connection between Star Trek 6 and TNG via a very opaque reference in the two-parter (because the episode was meant to promote the movie).
Even though you have to deal with Vic Mignogna's Kirk, I think OP really missed an opportunity to wedge Star Trek Continues in there between TOS and The Motion Picture.
You get some cheesy fun and an awkward attempt to redeem Turnabout Intruder, which is just precious boomer cringe, but the writing actually sets Spock and Kirk on the path that leads them to their characterizations in the film.
Easily the best of the fan efforts before the CBS crackdown. Even had some name guest stars like John de Lancie. Grant Imahara (rip) played Sulu.
Mignogna's Kirk is really kind of creepy though, and the Spock is not great. Results may vary but time investment is minimal. Only about 12 eps or whatever.
You get some cheesy fun and an awkward attempt to redeem Turnabout Intruder, which is just precious boomer cringe, but the writing actually sets Spock and Kirk on the path that leads them to their characterizations in the film.
Easily the best of the fan efforts before the CBS crackdown. Even had some name guest stars like John de Lancie. Grant Imahara (rip) played Sulu.
Mignogna's Kirk is really kind of creepy though, and the Spock is not great. Results may vary but time investment is minimal. Only about 12 eps or whatever.
Yeah…shame about the star of that, but as fan productions go, it's pretty top tier. I thought the final episode was really good, and a perfect segue between TOS and TMP. I loved how the were adding little movie touches here and there and then had Kirk in his TMP dress uniform in the final scene. There have been other attempts to bridge the TOS to movies gap (Phase II was the other fan series attempt I can think of) but ultimately it doesn't match up to Continues.
It's one of those things where his weirdness kinds of colours it, but Continues was surprisingly good. I like the other TOS one that came out before that too, although I can't remember what it was called at the moment.
Star Trek: New Voyages (aka Phase II). It was one of three fan series that used real sets. The other is Starship Exeter. Exeter even had an animated spin-off episode in the style of TAS, if I recall.
Oh yes, New Voyages!
I think that was the one that got Tim Russ inspired enough to make his own fan films. lol
Star Trek fan films were quite the thing in the late 90s/early 2000s. Hell, I even wrote an episode for one of them.
Which one? lol
I remember a long running TNG-era one with like several spinoffs as my first foray. I can't even remember if it was good or not, just that it was basically really novel that someone would basically make their own Star Trek. I guess this would have been around the same time that Star Wars fan films were also novel.
I still think Axanar would have been a better take on the Klingon War than Discovery's first season was.
But honestly, I couldn't really watch any of those other ones you guys mentioned. Continues was the only one that I could watch like a legit episode of TV.
Renegades turned out to be kind of a bummer too. What a weird time that whole crowdfunded fan production stretch was.
But honestly, I couldn't really watch any of those other ones you guys mentioned. Continues was the only one that I could watch like a legit episode of TV.
Renegades turned out to be kind of a bummer too. What a weird time that whole crowdfunded fan production stretch was.
It was Star Trek: Hidden Frontier, the one that had the Excelsior and the space station in the Briar Patch. The main theme was the theme from Galaxy Quest! Lol I think it's still the longest running fan series with 7 seasons and 50 episodes produced. Was it good…? Well, it was produced via entirely green screened sets and had a cast of entirely amateur actors, so it doesn't hold up to later productions with real sets like Continues at all. But it was ambitious, and it was set firmly in a post-Dominion War Starfleet, and explored that late 24th century setting.
It's funny that I actually got an IMDB page from writing that episode, and the timing of when my episode was produced and released lines up with my slight suspicion that I may have influenced ENT's "In a Mirror, Darkly"…I've got no proof of that, of course, because I was obviously working from the same TOS episode as inspiration…but yeah, that timing…my episode came out in 2003, and the ENT episode hit about a year and a half later. Lol
Haha just looked it up on YouTube and I totally forgot about the Galaxy Quest theme. The green screen is also pretty quaint... everyone has this green glow around them. Well, fan films had to start somewhere. lol
Oh so you did the Defiant episode of HF?
Too bad Axanar end up becoming vaporware AND also killing the fan film thing for Star Trek. They probably could have just done the documentary thing some more and it would have been fine.
That's the one! I had a really good time writing it, and messing with some of the Trek tropes in the process.
Haha, yeah, I can imagine it being fun to write. It reminds me a bit of the DS9 episode too, where they find everything TOS-era to be quaint.
I'm only on S3 of TNG at the moment, but Picard is one of the few characters in fiction that have made me think "I would follow this dude anywhere." His performance just exudes leadership.
Thanks!
That was part of the inspiration as well. As I was writing the episode, I had an idea for a follow up that was going to be more "epic" in scope. It was going to explore why the Defiant had gone to that region of space to begin with, and ultimately the story was going to wind up as a "closed time loop" that tied the 22nd, 23rd and 24th centuries together. I also wanted to see a Daedalus-class ship in action. Lol…I never got that script past the treatment phase, and then with IAMD aired, I was like, "whelp, canon already has this whole thing covered!"
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With Home Soil and Heart of Glory feeling like uniquely TNG approaches to Original Series stories - a "hard" sci-fi approach to Devil In The Dark and a diplomatic Klingon-POV approach to [insert any TOS Klingon episode] - The Next Generation S1 finally seems to be finding itself
Season 1 TNG *shudder* good luck it's the longest season of TNG even though it has the same number of episodes as every season.
It just feels longer. It's that bad.
I can literally count on one finger the number of episodes I would ever watch again because it was good.
3 fingers to a watch the so bad it's good ones.
It just feels longer. It's that bad.
I can literally count on one finger the number of episodes I would ever watch again because it was good.
3 fingers to a watch the so bad it's good ones.
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TNG season 1 done!
Favorite S1 episodes:
Heart of Glory
We'll Always Have Paris
Home Soil
Conspiracy
The Big Goodbye
11001001
Where No One Has Gone Before
Datalore
Worst episodes:
The Neutral Zone
The Battle
The Last Outpost
The Naked Now
Code of Honor
Haven
Angel One
S1 started extremely rocky, to the point that I was regretting starting this and wondering if I should continue. Despite having a crew introduction episode unlike TOS, TNG's crew felt nonexistent as characters beyond Picard for a large chunk of the season. Those early episodes felt like frustrating reminders of TOS S3 and its abrupt, dull, silly plots. Q, Data, Wesley were annoying. The Next Generation seemed obsessed with recreating The Original Series but worse in every way.
But around The Big Goodbye and 11001001, TNG proper began to take shape. Baby steps, but steps indeed. Despite the season ending with the laughable Neutral Zone, the back half of S1 finally allowed promise to shine through these messy beginnings. Aspects I liked from those later episodes: the show embracing the not-human android-ness of Data, exploring Worf and the Klingon POV, the Picard-Riker dynamic coming into its own, a look at what counts as TNG action and pulp (wtf Conspiracy was nuts)
Big difference in opinion between that first and final episode, let me tell you. It will be exciting to see TNG further develop. Onto S2!
Also, Wesley practically vanished from the show after Coming of Age. Was there a behind-the-scenes reason for that?
Favorite S1 episodes:
Heart of Glory
We'll Always Have Paris
Home Soil
Conspiracy
The Big Goodbye
11001001
Where No One Has Gone Before
Datalore
Worst episodes:
The Neutral Zone
The Battle
The Last Outpost
The Naked Now
Code of Honor
Haven
Angel One
S1 started extremely rocky, to the point that I was regretting starting this and wondering if I should continue. Despite having a crew introduction episode unlike TOS, TNG's crew felt nonexistent as characters beyond Picard for a large chunk of the season. Those early episodes felt like frustrating reminders of TOS S3 and its abrupt, dull, silly plots. Q, Data, Wesley were annoying. The Next Generation seemed obsessed with recreating The Original Series but worse in every way.
But around The Big Goodbye and 11001001, TNG proper began to take shape. Baby steps, but steps indeed. Despite the season ending with the laughable Neutral Zone, the back half of S1 finally allowed promise to shine through these messy beginnings. Aspects I liked from those later episodes: the show embracing the not-human android-ness of Data, exploring Worf and the Klingon POV, the Picard-Riker dynamic coming into its own, a look at what counts as TNG action and pulp (wtf Conspiracy was nuts)
Big difference in opinion between that first and final episode, let me tell you. It will be exciting to see TNG further develop. Onto S2!
Also, Wesley practically vanished from the show after Coming of Age. Was there a behind-the-scenes reason for that?
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There's no way The Neutral Zone counts as one of the worst episodes of season one. It's one of the best. I mean, the B plot is take it or leave it, but everything with the Romulans is A+ politics.
Wil Wheaton was still in high school, so I'd imagine that played a part in how much he could appear on the show.
So, S2 has some (different) rocky pieces, mostly due to a writer's strike that happened during the production of that season. You'll notice that it's shorter than any of the other seasons of the show. Some of the episodes are barely rewritten scripts from Star Trek: Phase II (the TOS sequel that was going to be made in the 70s that eventually became TMP), and hooboy…the last episode. That said, I personally feel that there is a big leap in quality that the series takes about 1/3 of the way into S2, and you start to get some true classic episodes. S3 and beyond is where the series' leap in quality finally sticks, but that ramp up starts in S2. Some of my favorite character building episodes happen in that season.
The clip show episode at the end of S2 is the only episode of anything that I skip on rewatches. However I think there's enough new material in it that I wouldn't recommend OP skip it, as they are watching everything else regardless of quality. But it's really on the brink.
It's funny, there is an episode late in the series that kind of plays with this aspect. So the writers definitely knew what you are talking about.
Lol…I avoided saying why that episode is "hooboy" to not spoil the "suprise".
Hang in there. There's a few hits in S2 but season 3-6 is peak Star Trek IMHO( along with DS9).
Agreed. I literally grew up with TNG and DS9. There are so many episodes of both thst I will watch to just enjoy them.
It was season 1 Enterprise that made me stop. A show I had such high hopes for and it face planted so hard.
Enterprise did pick itself up before being decapitated and pissed on (the finale).
Yeah but after Dear Doctor there was no real saving it.
And it also wasted Scott Bacula.
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A few rocky episodes (The Child is a big yikes) so far but S2 started off in significantly better fashion than its predecessor. That I'm already up to episode 9 compared to how much I dragged my feet getting through S1 is a testament to that. Much more engaging overall
A Matter of Honor and Elementary, Dear Data were excellent, and even the less-good episodes like The Schizoid Man, Where Silence Has Lease, and Loud as a Whisper have had interesting ideas and good character moments
A Matter of Honor and Elementary, Dear Data were excellent, and even the less-good episodes like The Schizoid Man, Where Silence Has Lease, and Loud as a Whisper have had interesting ideas and good character moments
I need to butt in with a completely unasked for trivia fact about Elementary, My Dear Data:
There was a filmed but never released alternate ending to that episode where Picard admits he was bluffing Moriarty to give back control, and he didn't know if he could actually leave the holodeck. When Geordi and Data ask what he meant, Picard shows them Moriarty's drawing of the Enterprise, that was able to leave the holodeck, and that no one really knows what his true capabilities were.
Episode 9, you say? Your next batch will start really, really well.
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I quite like that TNG came to the realization that having your captain as point for away teams might not be the best starship operating procedure. S2 committing to splitting Kirk's bridge decisiveness and in-the-thick-of-it action between Picard and Riker has given their dynamic a really nice flow
Also, damn: The Measure of a Man and Time Squared were some fantastic Trek. Before starting TNG, I had only ever seen Patrick Stewart in Green Room and the X-Men films, so getting to watch him at his peak bringing 110% with every episode has been wonderful
Also, damn: The Measure of a Man and Time Squared were some fantastic Trek. Before starting TNG, I had only ever seen Patrick Stewart in Green Room and the X-Men films, so getting to watch him at his peak bringing 110% with every episode has been wonderful
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Q Who really does feel like a sea change. Firstly, I had noticed that they were teasing that serialized thread about the colonies since S1; TNG S2 has really come into its own of being episodic yet feeling like a single odyssey via throughlines like that or Wesley's growth as a crew member. More than TOS managed, this Enterprise feels like a home away from home for its crew rather than merely transportation to the next adventure
And secondly, wow, what a fantastic introduction to The Borg. Episode was like a sci-fi horror take on The Corbomite Maneuver; really tapping into the space terrors that TOS touched on, but taking it to another level while also humbling Picard and actually making Q interesting rather than annoying.
And secondly, wow, what a fantastic introduction to The Borg. Episode was like a sci-fi horror take on The Corbomite Maneuver; really tapping into the space terrors that TOS touched on, but taking it to another level while also humbling Picard and actually making Q interesting rather than annoying.