LTTP: Sonic Generations 3DS - They managed to make Sonic entirely unexciting

[Deleted member 17627]

Picked this game up a couple of weeks ago because I'm trying to go through all of my 3DS games before putting the thing away for a while. And wow, this game is just so utterly uninteresting.

The level design almost feels ripped straight from the games they come from. It's really telling especially in Mushroom Hill Classic version in that there is a checkpoint three seconds before you finish the level, the same checkpoint being in the original version before you fought a mini-boss. It comes across as really low-effort to be honest. Especially when the game is visually and aurally less impressive and appealing than the games it takes from.

Then there's the Classic and Modern Sonic gameplay which really just feels the same? Both are in 2D, Classic Sonic was given a homing attack, and the only really difference is that the Modern Sonic can boost and just feels floatier, that's really it. Even the music, which in the console versions was tailored to each Sonic's era, doesn't sound different in style between the two. Like with Emerald Coast, instead of trying for a new style with Modern Sonic, they just gave him the second part of the Emerald Coast stage theme, but thematically it sounds the same as Classic Sonic's stage.

And ultimately, the game just doesn't really do anything new. Like I said, the level design feels ripped from the games these stages are taken from, meaning there aren't any unique twists for the stages here, such as with Modern Sonic's City Escape stage in the console version having the GUN Truck chase after Sonic on the sides of buildings while also having new razor saws attached to it. Even the special stages are ripped out from Sonic Heroes' ones.

It feels so weird even critiquing this game, because the game really is just one whole hour long. It's got these missions to complete, that also need to use play-coins to unlock, but they're so basic (defeat X amount of enemies, collect X amount of coins, finish the stage in this amount of time) and beating them gets you gallery items, but it does not feel worth the time, it's just not fun.

Edit (adding post I wrote below):
Playing a bit more of the game has just made me want even more for SEGA to allow for Dimps to make another 2D Sonic game (that's more Advance/Rush, less Sonic 4).

But I feel like with Mania being a thing, and Mania 2 never going to happen, I imagine smaller budget 2D Sonic games are a thing of the past given a new Dimps 2D Sonic would prompt fans to ask the question over and over again "why aren't we getting Mania 2 instead?"


Anyways, what were your thoughts on the 3DS version of Sonic Generations, Era?

 

[stinkyguy666]

I feel like games like Generations 3DS, Lost World and even Forces are interesting because they aren't interesting at all

They aren't "bad", but they really aren't great. They are just extremely "passable". They are about as mediocre as it gets and in a way, that kinda makes them worse than bad?

 

[Weiss]

Unless I am mistaken, you're correct about the level design being wholly recreated for Generations 3DS, unlike the console version.

 

[OneThirtyEight]

Never played that version but it dows not look like a lot of fun.
It does have a great remix of the Sonic 3 / Sonic & Knuckles final boss fight though.

 

[Subnats]

It was my first 3DS game so there's definitely some bias/nostalgia attached but I really liked it. I definitely wish it was a bit more original with the level design and focused more on the handheld games but it's probably my overall favourite handheld Sonic. The final boss is also way better than the console version imo.

 

[Jimnymebob]

I never played this one, but I kinda feel like it had the cooler stage picks.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Sonic has been mostly entirely unexciting after Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but sure.

 

[King Kingo]

Nah, I loved this game. It had more of its own identity compared to the console release with its exclusive stages and bosses.

 

[HMS_Pinafore]

I believe Dimps had around 9 months to work on the game and it shows.

 

[Quacktion]

Never played that version but it dows not look like a lot of fun.
It does have a great remix of the Sonic 3 / Sonic & Knuckles final boss fight though.

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Oh yea Jesus Christ this version goes in SUPER HARD, solid contender for the best song in the series.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Such a nothing game that could've been a great companion piece to the console version, what's here isn't actually bad (though the adventure era stages are rather unremarkable) but needed more time.
There's really not much more to say, I suppose it could be added that giving classic sonic a homing attack was extra dumb considering that's one of the few differences in modern Sonic's 2D focus that stood out against the classic style stages.

 

[Jarchafiend]

Never played that version but it dows not look like a lot of fun.
It does have a great remix of the Sonic 3 / Sonic & Knuckles final boss fight though.

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Easily the best arrangement in the series.



The Biolizard remix ain't no slouch either

 

[Lant_War]

I feel like games like Generations 3DS, Lost World and even Forces are interesting because they aren't interesting at all

They aren't "bad", but they really aren't great. They are just extremely "passable". They are about as mediocre as it gets and in a way, that kinda makes them worse than bad?

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Yep. Personally, I'll always take a game with some real low lows but some awesome highs that stick in my mind like Unleashed or Heroes than something like Forces where the experience is just consistently mediocre. I played it quite a bit and can honestly only recall like 5 levels at most, it's just boring.

Never played that version but it dows not look like a lot of fun.
It does have a great remix of the Sonic 3 / Sonic & Knuckles final boss fight though.

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It's a crime that this song got stuck in there. They should reuse it in a racing game or something.

 

[Deleted member 17627]

Such a nothing game that could've been a great companion piece to the console version, what's here isn't actually bad (though the adventure era stages are rather unremarkable) but needed more time.
There's really not much more to say, I suppose it could be added that giving classic sonic a homing attack was extra dumb considering that's one of the few differences in modern Sonic's 2D focus that stood out against the classic style stages.

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I like Radical Highway, but them choosing Emerald Coast over something like Lost World (the stage) or Red Mountain was so dumb.

I feel like games like Generations 3DS, Lost World and even Forces are interesting because they aren't interesting at all

They aren't "bad", but they really aren't great. They are just extremely "passable". They are about as mediocre as it gets and in a way, that kinda makes them worse than bad?

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Agreed, all three are the types of games and you forget immediately afterward. Sonic 06 has its issues, but stages like Radical Train had such high pace action, and Kingdom Valley looks gorgeous still after 15 years. I can't even name a single stage from Lost World (the game, lol).

 

[VinylCassette64]

It's very much a filler title.

Story has even less going on than the console game, the presentation is weak, and the representation is largely uninspired and random. Only one handheld game picked out of the numerous handheld games the series has received (Game Gear games, Advance trilogy, Rush series), instead just mostly picking the "other" popular zones from the console games that didn't get the cut in the console version of Generations (e.g. here's Casino Night and Emerald Coast, since Chemical Plant and Speed Highway were already taken)...except for Green Hill for whatever reason.

And the gameplay is pants too. Genesis gameplay is still subpar for Mega Drive Sonic (barely a step-up over Sonic 4) and Millennium Sonic is bog-standard Boost gameplay (it now being in handheld 2.5D isn't really much to write home about). And the level design is so repetitious/bland, outside of the copypasta layouts for MD Sonic's first three zones; that they might as well be the exact same gameplay. It really does boil down to picking between fast Sonic gameplay and faster Sonic gameplay with the two Sonics. All it has going for it is some of the remixed music, but even those you could had just saved those as bonus tracks for the console game's OST.

It feels like a contractual obligation project in the worst sense of the term. Between both episodes of Sonic 4 and the DS version of Colors (released the previous year), it's not like Dimps was hurting for Sonic projects. It really does come across as someone commissioning it just so the 3DS would have a Sonic game in its holiday launch window (Mario & Sonic London 2012 notwithstanding...). It's one of those games where I do think nothing would had been truly lost if it never existed. Even Lost World 3DS, heap of awful gutter trash that game is, at least had the novelty of being the series' first (and only) pre-Switch 3D handheld Sonic game.

 

[Nepenthe]

I feel like games like Generations 3DS, Lost World and even Forces are interesting because they aren't interesting at all

They aren't "bad", but they really aren't great. They are just extremely "passable". They are about as mediocre as it gets and in a way, that kinda makes them worse than bad?

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Add Colors to that pile too.

 

[Deleted member 17627]

Add Colors to that pile too.

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Shhhh, you're not supposed to say that!

In all honesty, I'm not a huge fan of Colors too, but the Wisps were cool (and have now overstayed their welcome), and the game had some really interesting level design and an well-done soundtrack. It at least tried to do something new and also had memorable moments, but it was definitely the start of the Sonic franchise playing it too safe for the rest of the decade.

 

[Quinton]

Add Colors to that pile too.

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I feel like Colors' claim to fame is that it was the first game in a while to be a 6 instead of a 3.

 

[Deleted member 42484]

It was my first 3DS game so there's definitely some bias/nostalgia attached but I really liked it. I definitely wish it was a bit more original with the level design and focused more on the handheld games but it's probably my overall favourite handheld Sonic. The final boss is also way better than the console version imo.

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You need to play Sonic Rush on the DS. It's definitely my favorite handheld sonic (outside of Mania on Switch)

 

[GamerJM]

The level design in this game is a very uninteresting version of jank. The difference in quality between it and the console versions is pretty big.

 

[Stopdoor]

It's very much a filler title.

Story has even less going on than the console game, the presentation is weak, and the representation is largely uninspired and random. Only one handheld game picked out of the numerous handheld games the series has received (Game Gear games, Advance trilogy, Rush series), instead just mostly picking the "other" popular zones from the console games that didn't get the cut in the console version of Generations (e.g. here's Casino Night and Emerald Coast, since Chemical Plant and Speed Highway were already taken)...except for Green Hill for whatever reason.

And the gameplay is pants too. Genesis gameplay is still subpar for Mega Drive Sonic (barely a step-up over Sonic 4) and Millennium Sonic is bog-standard Boost gameplay (it now being in handheld 2.5D isn't really much to write home about). And the level design is so repetitious/bland, outside of the copypasta layouts for MD Sonic's first three zones; that they might as well be the exact same gameplay. It really does boil down to picking between fast Sonic gameplay and faster Sonic gameplay with the two Sonics. All it has going for it is some of the remixed music, but even those you could had just saved those as bonus tracks for the console game's OST.

It feels like a contractual obligation project in the worst sense of the term. Between both episodes of Sonic 4 and the DS version of Colors (released the previous year), it's not like Dimps was hurting for Sonic projects. It really does come across as someone commissioning it just so the 3DS would have a Sonic game in its holiday launch window (Mario & Sonic London 2012 notwithstanding...). It's one of those games where I do think nothing would had been truly lost if it never existed. Even Lost World 3DS, heap of awful gutter trash that game is, at least had the novelty of being the series' first (and only) pre-Switch 3D handheld Sonic game.

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Lost World 3DS also has the weird, lone feature of being the only 4-player (platforming) Sonic game. Really random.

 

[Subnats]

You need to play Sonic Rush on the DS. It's definitely my favorite handheld sonic (outside of Mania on Switch)

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I've played an ungodly amount of Rush and it's definitely an amazing game but like I said I've got a decent bit of nostalgia for Generations 3DS that pushes it above Rush (I also prefer Colours DS to Rush).

 

[Nepenthe]

Shhhh, you're not supposed to say that!

In all honesty, I'm not a huge fan of Colors too, but the Wisps were cool (and have now overstayed their welcome), and the game had some really interesting level design and an well-done soundtrack. It at least tried to do something new and also had memorable moments, but it was definitely the start of the Sonic franchise playing it too safe for the rest of the decade.

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I wanted more out of the game because it was obvious its scope was scaled back from Unleashed's. Wisps are a good idea in theory but are handled as boring unlock keys for various bits of hackneyed level design. First of all, the one Wisp limit ruins everything, as well as the fact that the White Wisps replace the Boost meter, ensuring the devs will lean towards making base Sonic uninteresting to move around with in order to bolster the purpose and feeling of of the Wisps. Some are also kind of useless, like Cube.

I say A.) Allow Sonic to have multiple ones in his arsenal (I say every Wisp he's met should just be a permanent power up he an access any time) B.) allow them to have multiple effects on the environment which base Sonic can use to his advantage (ex. Laser burns/melt things and can allow Sonic to bypass areas fortified with lasers).

There, I just designed a better fucking game.

I feel like Colors' claim to fame is that it was the first game in a while to be a 6 instead of a 3.

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I mean, it was beaten to the punch by Unleashed.

 

[Harry Potter Obama]

Generations 3DS was kinda crappy but it turned out about as well as it could have given the minuscule amount of time they had to make it..

 

[Anth0ny]

The remix of sonic 3 final boss though

bruuuuuhhhhhhhh

 

[Deleted member 17627]

I wanted more out of the game because it was obvious its scope was scaled back from Unleashed's. Wisps are a good idea in theory but are handled as boring unlock keys for various bits of hackneyed level design. First of all, the one Wisp limit ruins everything, as well as the fact that the White Wisps replace the Boost meter, ensuring the devs will lean towards making base Sonic uninteresting to move around with in order to bolster the purpose and feeling of of the Wisps. Some are also kind of useless, like Cube.

I say A.) Allow Sonic to have multiple ones in his arsenal (I say every Wisp he's met should just be a permanent power up he an access any time) B.) allow them to have multiple effects on the environment which base Sonic can use to his advantage (ex. Laser burns/melt things and can allow Sonic to bypass areas fortified with lasers).

There, I just designed a better fucking game.


I mean, it was beaten to the punch by Unleashed.

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Ah, a fellow Unleashed fan. I still hope for the day that we get a Sonic game on that scope once again, here's to the next one being just that given it has PS5/Series X versions and is rumored to be open-world and needed high-end PCs to run well (really interested in finding out how that Switch version will look like).

As for Colors, yeah, the overreliance on Wisps to make things interesting was not great, and not all Wisps were interesting either. What's worse is how we keep getting the same Wisps over and over again instead of any new ones being made.

Reaaaaaaaally hoping this new game has absolutely no Wisps in it. Still don't understand why the heck they were in Forces.

 

[Aaron]

I mean, it was beaten to the punch by Unleashed.

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A lot of the gaming press/community convinced themselves that Unleashed was yet another 06-esque dumpster fire, and the Werehog admittedly being a dumb tryhard concept didn't help matters. The fact that it got lower review scores at some places than 06 is honestly kind of embarrassing.

The fandom appreciated it a lot more at least, although it still has its detractors there are plenty of people (myself included) who love it warts and all.

Colors kind of stole Unleashed's thunder in that regard with the broader gaming mainstream going "finally, a Sonic game that doesn't suck!" I agree that it's a weaker game than Unleashed but it's definitely a lot more consistent, a lot easier (many critics bashed Unleashed for its difficulty), and perhaps most importantly the Wisps weren't as obnoxious of a gimmick as the Werehog.

 

[Nepenthe]

Ah, a fellow Unleashed fan. I still hope for the day that we get a Sonic game on that scope once again, here's to the next one being just that given it has PS5/Series X versions and is rumored to be open-world and needed high-end PCs to run well (really interested in finding out how that Switch version will look like).

As for Colors, yeah, the overreliance on Wisps to make things interesting was not great, and not all Wisps were interesting either. What's worse is how we keep getting the same Wisps over and over again instead of any new ones being made.

Reaaaaaaaally hoping this new game has absolutely no Wisps in it. Still don't understand why the heck they were in Forces.

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"There are dozens of us! DOZENS!!!"

Also, I want to have a smidgen of hope for Rangers or whatever it is, but I've been burned by sheer mediocrity and the celebration of it way too many times.

Last game bought was Generations and I decided that I was done lol; not that the game was bad, but that it summed up my emotions very well, or rather my lack thereof. The reason for Generations' content selection is because those stages and moments in the past were hype, but that was only due to how they were contextualized by the games they appeared in. Fighting Perfect Chaos in Sonic Adventure as the final boss is more fulfilling than fighting him smack dab in the middle of the game for no reason. The nostalgia trip I was expected to have just...didn't happen, because there was no substance there.

But the game got a bunch of 8s so I saw the writing on the wall lol.

Rangers is going to have to do some serious legwork to get someone like me back in, but with the fact that a gotdamn Colors remake is confirmed (holy shit, out of all the games), consider me skeptical that Sega has learned. I also bet you a dollar them damn Wisps will be back too, because it's an idea people didn't hate. Ergo we HAVE to shove them everywhere.

 

[Order]

didn't this game just kinda give up a quarter way in and give every era after classic only 2 stages

 

[Deleted member 17627]

"There are dozens of us! DOZENS!!!"

Also, I want to have a smidgen of hope for Rangers or whatever it is, but I've been burned by sheer mediocrity and the celebration of it way too many times.

Last game bought was Generations and I decided that I was done lol; not that the game was bad, but that it summed up my emotions very well, or rather my lack thereof. The reason for Generations' content selection is because those stages and moments in the past were hype, but that was only due to how they were contextualized by the games they appeared in. Fighting Perfect Chaos in Sonic Adventure as the final boss is more fulfilling than fighting him smack dab in the middle of the game for no reason. The nostalgia trip I was expected to have just...didn't happen, because there was no substance there.

But the game got a bunch of 8s so I saw the writing on the wall lol.

Rangers is going to have to do some serious legwork to get someone like me back in, but with the fact that a gotdamn Colors remake is confirmed (holy shit, out of all the games), consider me skeptical that Sega has learned. I also bet you a dollar them damn Wisps will be back too, because it's an idea people didn't hate. Ergo we HAVE to shove them everywhere.

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Here's to hoping bro...
And man, don't get me started on the Sonic Generations Perfect Chaos fight, what the actual heck was that phase 2 "jump on a bunch of platforms to get to Perfect Chaos and hit him" nonsense?

I still love Generations (as per yesterday's topic trying to get it run at 60 FPS on my new gaming laptop), but it definitely continued that "playing it safe" trend by having more and more 2D sections in the 3D Sonic stages, and the growing lack of effort into any aspect of these games outside of their gameplay.

Funny enough, the part of Generations where gameplay, presentation, and style all peaked were during the Unleashed segments. Both Classic and Modern Sonic's versions of Rooftop Run were phenomenal, and they did an excellent job breathing new life into the Egg Dragoon fight when that boss wasn't even for regular Sonic in the original game.

One of the gaming community's greatest sins and making the Werehog out to be this awful, unforgivable mode, when in reality those stages had a nice aesthetic going for them, a fantastic and varied jazz score, and actually really fun combat. Polish the controls during the platforming segments and make Sonic maybe a little bit fast and it would've been great.

 

[Deleted member 17627]

didn't this game just kinda give up a quarter way in and give every era after classic only 2 stages

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Yeeeeep. Granted, the stages in the Adventure and Portable Eras were twice as long as the Genesis ones, but the level design got worse, and the stage choices for them were so boring. Four out of the seven stages in Generations 3DS being the first levels in the games they represent was such a uninteresting choice....

 

[Weiss]

IIRC the Wisps are supposed to be a permanent fixture of the series now.

As is Zavok.

 

[Nepenthe]

Here's to hoping bro...
And man, don't get me started on the Sonic Generations Perfect Chaos fight, what the actual heck was that phase 2 "jump on a bunch of platforms to get to Perfect Chaos and hit him" nonsense?

I still love Generations (as per yesterday's topic trying to get it run at 60 FPS on my new gaming laptop), but it definitely continued that "playing it safe" trend by having more and more 2D sections in the 3D Sonic stages, and the growing lack of effort into any aspect of these games outside of their gameplay.

Funny enough, the part of Generations where gameplay, presentation, and style all peaked were during the Unleashed segments. Both Classic and Modern Sonic's versions of Rooftop Run were phenomenal, and they did an excellent job breathing new life into the Egg Dragoon fight when that boss wasn't even for regular Sonic in the original game.

One of the gaming community's greatest sins and making the Werehog out to be this awful, unforgivable mode, when in reality those stages had a nice aesthetic going for them, a fantastic and varied jazz score, and actually really fun combat. Polish the controls during the platforming segments and make Sonic maybe a little bit fast and it would've been great.

Click to shrink...

Werehog is an interesting case study. I love the furry fellow, but I know why others wouldn't specifically in the context of a Sonic game, because all people want to do is get to point A to B as fast as possible. Werehog is the opposite of that. But it's a deliberately designed opposition both within the narrative and gameplay.

Sonic is punished for his hubris by getting caught in the trap that turns him into the Werehog in the first place, and the player is stuck with him until he gets his revenge (hence why I would actually argue the Egg Dragoon fight in Unleashed is better than its Gens counterpart; how appropriate is it that Eggman gets bested by his own Frankenstein's monster?) Throughout the narrative, Sonic is on the same page with most of the audience and doesn't like his transformations, but Chip assures him that things are okay because "inside you're the same as ever."

Indeed, Unleashed still feels like a Sonic game because it's the best they've done in years to capture the spirit of old school Sonic where things could be silly and do weird things just because without being entirely self-deprecating like we are in the post-06 timeline. There's an intentional joy in seeing a werewolf with God of War gameplay boiled down into the goofy aesthetics of the Werehog, a thoroughly unthreatening fluffbag with ridiculous upper-body proportions and silly stretchy arm attacks all set to (amazing) jazz music. He isn't taken too seriously by the developers, but there is nonetheless sincerity within the thought behind his place in the story and the breadth of gameplay he has. He is amusing, but he isn't a source of sheer mockery.

At most, you can say the Werehog is boring in the same way the Wisps are- his gameplay isn't really thought-provoking and time with a better developer would see the idea succeed (the moment you think to use those stretchy arms as a Spider Man mechanic, you're on the way to a better game.) But even with him being boring, he's a weird, interesting idea with more heartfelt and thoughtful execution than the Wisps, which is why you could probably plunk me down in front of Unleashed and I'd play it again. No one here can afford the asking price to make me suffer through the committee-esque tedium of Colors and beyond, despite the games being more "consistent."

 

[Weiss]

I kinda feel the main problem with the Werehog is that it came about at the tail end of years of Sonic games with weird gimmicks when "I just want to play as Sonic and go fast" was some kind of hard coded manifesto in online Sonic talk. The quality doesn't really matter, at least to the Extremely Online branch of Sonic fandom circa 2008, what matters is that Sonic turned into a werewolf and that's dumb and cringe and anime.

Then Sega made a zoomfast Sonic game and it lasted three hours and we all loved it, then they made another one that brought Classic Sonic back and we loved it even more, then they made the same game and it sucked, and now the old hat Sonic fanbase is having to share space with the Sonic fans who grew up with Adventure era games that liberally used a full roster of characters and love them to pieces.

 

[Oscarzx n]

I was excited for the game since I didn't have a PS3 or 360 at the time and I couldn't played it for months since no store in my city had it for some reason, one of the few big 3DS releases that had that issue, and when I finally got to play it it was very meh and forgettable

 

[Deleted member 17627]

Werehog is an interesting case study. I love the furry fellow, but I know why others wouldn't specifically in the context of a Sonic game, because all people want to do is get to point A to B as fast as possible. Werehog is the opposite of that. But it's a deliberately designed opposition both within the narrative and gameplay.

Sonic is punished for his hubris by getting caught in the trap that turns him into the Werehog in the first place, and the player is stuck with him until he gets his revenge (hence why I would actually argue the Egg Dragoon fight in Unleashed is better than its Gens counterpart; how appropriate is it that Eggman gets bested by his own Frankenstein's monster?) Throughout the narrative, Sonic is on the same page with most of the audience and doesn't like his transformations, but Chip assures him that things are okay because "inside you're the same as ever."

Indeed, Unleashed still feels like a Sonic game because it's the best they've done in years to capture the spirit of old school Sonic where things could be silly and do weird things just because without being entirely self-deprecating like we are in the post-06 timeline. There's an intentional joy in seeing a werewolf with God of War gameplay boiled down into the goofy aesthetics of the Werehog, a thoroughly unthreatening fluffbag with ridiculous upper-body proportions and silly stretchy arm attacks all set to (amazing) jazz music. He isn't taken too seriously by the developers, but there is nonetheless sincerity within the thought behind his place in the story and the breadth of gameplay he has. He is amusing, but he isn't a source of sheer mockery.

At most, you can say the Werehog is boring in the same way the Wisps are- his gameplay isn't really thought-provoking and time with a better developer would see the idea succeed (the moment you think to use those stretchy arms as a Spider Man mechanic, you're on the way to a better game.) But even with him being boring, he's a weird, interesting idea with more heartfelt and thoughtful execution than the Wisps, which is why you could probably plunk me down in front of Unleashed and I'd play it again. No one here can afford the asking price to make me suffer through the committee-esque tedium of Colors and beyond, despite the games being more "consistent."

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Your entire post has me considering buying a Series X just so I can replay Sonic Unleashed at a not garbage framerate lol.

 

[Catalyst]

They should have taken stages from more handheld games like Advance and the Game Gear games. The only actual handheld game represented there was Rush.

 

[Aaron]

I kinda feel the main problem with the Werehog is that it came about at the tail end of years of Sonic games with weird gimmicks when "I just want to play as Sonic and go fast" was some kind of hard coded manifesto in online Sonic talk. The quality doesn't really matter, at least to the Extremely Online branch of Sonic fandom circa 2008, what matters is that Sonic turned into a werewolf and that's dumb and cringe and anime.

Then Sega made a zoomfast Sonic game and it lasted three hours and we all loved it, then they made another one that brought Classic Sonic back and we loved it even more, then they made the same game and it sucked, and now the old hat Sonic fanbase is having to share space with the Sonic fans who grew up with Adventure era games that liberally used a full roster of characters and love them to pieces.

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Tbf Forces' problems go much deeper than people simply tiring of the boost gameplay.

I'm not even against boost coming back in the next game, it's just that the level design hasn't scratched Unleashed's, save for a few standout examples in Generations. The Rangers rumors about open-world exploration with offshoot Unleashed-esque levels sounds awesome to me, but it's entirely in the execution.

 

[Weiss]

Tbf Forces' problems go much deeper than people simply tiring of the boost gameplay.

I'm not even against boost coming back in the next game, it's just that the level design hasn't scratched Unleashed's, save for a few standout examples in Generations. The Rangers rumors about open-world exploration with offshoot Unleashed-esque levels sounds awesome to me, but it's entirely in the execution.

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I agree. Sonic's in this weird crossroads of playing it safe that, supposedly, was what it was supposed to be doing all along, just being about Sonic running fast, but then it just feels like years of creative stagnation at this point.

This is obviously an ancillary topic, but I love all those side character goobers and seeing them in the comic is part of what makes it fun, but then it got me thinking that the 10 year olds that are supposed to be buying Sonic games have no reason to ever care about any of them because they never show up for anything important anymore.

 

[TheAggroCraig]

I liked 3DS Generations personally, though it's not as good as the console version but that's to be expected. Having remixes of Back 2 Back was amazing and I'm still impressed they did a Sonic Rush stage in general.

Also, Big Arm remix is incredible.

 

[Deleted member 34949]

Your entire post has me considering buying a Series X just so I can replay Sonic Unleashed at a not garbage framerate lol.

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I'm assuming from your other thread that you have a laptop/PC that can run Generations? Because I'd HIGHLY recommend the Unleashed mod for it. All the fun parts of that game without having to fuss with the Werehog and Medal pacing, and a good ass frame rate, to boot.

 

[Garudyne]

I'll be honest, the weird backlash Colors has gotten in the past few years has really confused me. As someone who was pretty dialed into the sonic community at the time, I remember it being very well received? Maybe I was looking in the wrong place.

Like, I agree that Unleashed hits higher highs, but I'd rather take a game that's 100% "good" over one that's maaayyybe 10% "great" and 90% "okay to terrible." It was definitely more ambitious though, and the last time Sega gave Sonic a budget

3DS Generations is a bad game, but it gave us some great remixes so I'm not too bothered. I'd definitely never play it again though.

 

[Weiss]

I'll be honest, the weird backlash Colors has gotten in the past few years has really confused me. As someone who was pretty dialed into the sonic community at the time, I remember it being very well received? Maybe I was looking in the wrong place.

Like, I agree that Unleashed hits higher highs, but I'd rather take a game that's 100% "good" over one that's maaayyybe 10% "great" and 90% "okay to terrible." It was definitely more ambitious though, and the last time Sega gave Sonic a budget

3DS Generations is a bad game, but it gave us some great remixes so I'm not too bothered. I'd definitely never play it again though.

Click to shrink...

Colors is getting reassessed on two levels.

One is whether or not the game was The Good 3D Sonic, as it's possible a lot of its glowing reception was what it did in breaking away from what was seen as an enveloping detritus for Sonic as opposed to its own subjective qualities.

The other is how Colors has become a benchmark for the series even beyond just the hard coding of the Wisps into more of these games; most Sonic games now have the irreverent snarky dialogue with paper thin plots and zero major character writing. Even if these things worked in Colors (and I think they did. At the time it really was nice to have a Sonic game that was basically just Sonic and Tails on vacation while Eggman is up to no good and gets to be the final boss), it's arguable as to whether they've kept on working.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I'll be honest, the weird backlash Colors has gotten in the past few years has really confused me. As someone who was pretty dialed into the sonic community at the time, I remember it being very well received? Maybe I was looking in the wrong place.

Click to shrink...

There's numerous reasons I've noticed, they can range from the following games following its lighter tone and dropping the Adventure era style narratives, to having the sins of other games poor wisp usage placed upon it being the game that first introduced them.
And then also because it's merely a good game and not a great one, in any case I enjoy it a lot as a well rounded package but the Sonic community is fractured in so many ways that people are looking for many different things from the franchise in both gameplay and tone

I was gonna post more but then fookin' Weiss just had to jump into my "show new posts" reveal and eat my lunch

 

[Garudyne]

Colors is getting reassessed on two levels.

One is whether or not the game was The Good 3D Sonic, as it's possible a lot of its glowing reception was what it did in breaking away from what was seen as an enveloping detritus for Sonic as opposed to its own subjective qualities.

The other is how Colors has become a benchmark for the series even beyond just the hard coding of the Wisps into more of these games; most Sonic games now have the irreverent snarky dialogue with paper thin plots and zero major character writing. Even if these things worked in Colors (and I think they did. At the time it really was nice to have a Sonic game that was basically just Sonic and Tails on vacation while Eggman is up to no good and gets to be the final boss), it's arguable as to whether they've kept on working.

Click to shrink...

There's numerous reasons I've noticed, they can range from the following games following its lighter tone and dropping the Adventure era style narratives, to having the sins of other games poor wisp usage placed upon it being the game that first introduced them.
And then also because it's merely a good game and not a great one, in any case I enjoy it a lot as a well rounded package but the Sonic community is fractured in so many ways that people are looking for many different things from the franchise in both gameplay and tone

I was gonna post more but then fookin' Weiss just had to jump into my "show new posts" reveal and eat my lunch

Click to shrink...

That's fair. For as much as I remember loving that game, I've braced myself for the possibility that it'll be a little worse than I remember when I play the remaster. I agree with some of the complaints (Little 3D gameplay, boxy and superfluous side stages), I guess I just don't think it detracts that much from the experience.

As for the second point, I just don't see why the later games using similar concepts poorly reflects on Colors at all. Like, you don't see people saying SA1 and 2 are bad just because 06 continued their ideas poorly. I think games like Forces are terrible by their own merits, not because of anything Colors did.

Maybe this is just a disconnect stemming from the fact that Story is like 6 or 7 items down on the List of Things I Care About in a Sonic Game. Like, SA1 had a good story, and SA2 had an (very) enjoyably dumb story, but no other game has had a story I've cared about, aside from Colors which I thought was fun enough. But I just skip the cutscenes on a replay since I don't really care. If you were more into Sonic for the writing, I can understand you'd be upset, but like, I would say just read the comics? Since they have way better writing than the games ever will.

 

[JigglesBunny]

I distinctly recall blazing through the entire game on a single plane ride, never dying a single time or getting hit by a hazard. Definitely the easiest and most carelessly designed Sonic game which is really saying something.

 

[Weiss]

There's numerous reasons I've noticed, they can range from the following games following its lighter tone and dropping the Adventure era style narratives, to having the sins of other games poor wisp usage placed upon it being the game that first introduced them.
And then also because it's merely a good game and not a great one, in any case I enjoy it a lot as a well rounded package but the Sonic community is fractured in so many ways that people are looking for many different things from the franchise in both gameplay and tone

I was gonna post more but then fookin' Weiss just had to jump into my "show new posts" reveal and eat my lunch

Click to shrink...

 

[Nocturnowl]

That's fair. For as much as I remember loving that game, I've braced myself for the possibility that it'll be a little worse than I remember when I play the remaster. I agree with some of the complaints (Little 3D gameplay, boxy and superfluous side stages), I guess I just don't think it detracts that much from the experience.

As for the second point, I just don't see why the later games using similar concepts poorly reflects on Colors at all. Like, you don't see people saying SA1 and 2 are bad just because 06 continued their ideas poorly. I think games like Forces are terrible by their own merits, not because of anything Colors did.

Maybe this is just a disconnect stemming from the fact that Story is like 6 or 7 items down on the List of Things I Care About in a Sonic Game. Like, SA1 had a good story, and SA2 had an (very) enjoyably dumb story, but no other game has had a story I've cared about, aside from Colors which I thought was fun enough. But I just skip the cutscenes on a replay since I don't really care. If you were more into Sonic for the writing, I can understand you'd be upset, but like, I would say just read the comics? Since they have way better writing than the games ever will.

Click to shrink...

Oh I agree on what you say for that second point, I'm just commenting on some of the things I've seen.
I guess it's not exactly dissimilar how on the other side of the coin you get some people saying a potential Adventure 3 shouldn't happen because Sonic 06, I have almost certainly been guilty of this one at some point even though it's not a fair assessment either.

Click to shrink...

You even got Brawl Sonic specifically so I couldn't go "sonic speed?", well played

 

[Deleted member 17627]

I distinctly recall blazing through the entire game on a single plane ride, never dying a single time or getting hit by a hazard. Definitely the easiest and most carelessly designed Sonic game which is really saying something.

Click to shrink...

Oh man, it's so easy. Before Forces, I would say this was the "boost to win" game. Some stages like Mushroom Hill I don't think I even did anything else but that.

Colors is getting reassessed on two levels.

One is whether or not the game was The Good 3D Sonic, as it's possible a lot of its glowing reception was what it did in breaking away from what was seen as an enveloping detritus for Sonic as opposed to its own subjective qualities.

The other is how Colors has become a benchmark for the series even beyond just the hard coding of the Wisps into more of these games; most Sonic games now have the irreverent snarky dialogue with paper thin plots and zero major character writing. Even if these things worked in Colors (and I think they did. At the time it really was nice to have a Sonic game that was basically just Sonic and Tails on vacation while Eggman is up to no good and gets to be the final boss), it's arguable as to whether they've kept on working.

Click to shrink...

I want to take the bolded paragraph and hang it on my wall.

 

[Virtua King]

Yeah, it just kind of... exists. There's no reason to play it over the Rush trilogy.