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Readler

Member
Oct 6, 2018
1,972
I want to preface the following LTTP with this:
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...

I got into this gen in 2018 with a PS4 Pro; God Of War, Spider-Man, and Red Dead Redemption 2 finally tipped me over the edge.
And then there was Shadow of the Colossus, too.
I missed out on it when I had a PS2 and have always wanted to play this. A game where all you do is fight HUGE bosses? Yes please. The remake looked fantastic and I was super fucking keen to finally to play what is considered one of the absolute GOATs in gaming.

And it starts off so cool - you're a stranger Wander...ing into a strange, desolate land, carrying your fridged wife to an altar in the hopes of saving her. Some ominous voices tell you it's hard, but not impossible. Just go and slaughter a bunch of colossi and then maybe we'll see what we can do.
And off you are.
And wow - what a world. This game looks beautiful.

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If you've lived under a rock like I have, the game's loop is this:
You use your literal lightsaber (pictured below) to tell you the way and then you ride through this empty open world to kill your next colossus. You do this 16 times.
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And that first colossus - oof. So cool. Absolutely unforgettable experience. In fact, all 16 colossi are incredibly distinct, and creative, to the point where I can still remember how and where I fought them. Good job Team Ico.

But oh my god this game just isn't fun. Like ugh. See I don't game a lot, as such I'm always very cautious with what I buy and play. Consequently there aren't a lot of games where I felt like I wasn't particularly enjoying myself. Of the more recent ones I really was disappointed by L.A. Noire's story and writing for example. I also got a bit bored by Uncharted 3's excessive and poor shooting mechanics (fuck those shotgun-wielding sponges)...and that's about it?
At no point that I can recall was I close to actually just stop playing a game but SOTC is...just so goddamn tedious.
I sometimes feel that Era gets a bit elitist about controls: I actually enjoyed The Witcher 3's combat, I didn't mind RDR2's "sluggy controls," and apart from GTAIV's cars, there isn't a game where I got seriously annoyed by the controls.

Until now.
Fuck Agro. What a stupid fucking horse. Seriously. I understand that I'm not controlling him, but I'm controlling Wander, controlling him, but who made this shit up. It's the most inconsistent, least fun, and weirdest to control (Triangle, for real?) horse I've ever had the pleasure to control. What was probably meant to be an emotional moment, was diminished because I was actually kinda glad that Agro died. Good job Team Ico.
And then there's Wander himself who's just as unreliable.
Climbing is unpredictable.
Swimming is as slow as the engine allows and just boring (and yet there is a high amount of water-based colossi).
The time for you to get up is shorter than the cooldown time of boss attacks (and becomes increasingly longer the lower your health), making you stuck in an endless loop of getting hit.

And then, since the gameplay is so limited, the fights themselves get kinda stale after the novelty has worn off.
It was fucking DOPE the first few times around, but then it just becomes repetitive: find the weaknesses, climb up, stab a bunch of times, repeat. It's actually annoying, because the gameplay mechanics are just so poor.
Like this guy here:
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You want me to ride and steer Agro in a confined space BACKWARDS while trying to aim at some tiny eyes on a Dune worm? Fuck you SOTC. And this one was even among the less bullshit ones; the final boss, and the one in the lake with the teeth on top were so much dumber.
It's not "difficult," it's just annoying and tedious. I have played difficult games (obligatory "Dark Souls is one of my favourite games!"). This isn't one of them.

This game just isn't fun. Not in the slightest. Sorry. The story was kinda enjoyable and while the moral was noble ("Man is the real enemy"), but I personally thought the execution, especially wrt the ending was dumb. Matter of tase, I get it. Fine.
However I seriously don't understand how this game is held in such high esteem. It's not even a cult classic, or some controversial hidden gem, no, it's one of the actual greatest games of all time. I am disappointed beyond belief and feel like this is all just an elaborate ruse. You know, one of those cases where people pretend to like something just to seem sophisticated. I know this is a game from 2006 with just a fresh coat of paint (afaik Bluepoint didn't change any of the original code), but still. San Andreas is still fun, and that's from 2004.

Hyped for Demon's Souls though, graphics were great. Good job Bluepoint Games.

I am proud to now engage in an onslaught of comments calling me dumb, but this is also my first thread ever so please don't hurt me.
 

Couscous

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,089
Twente (The Netherlands)
The concept and fights themselves are amazing and inventive. I don't mind that I have to find the samey looking weakness spots on all the bosses. The controls just suck though. They make the game a decent game instead of the masterpiece it could've been.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,648
You don't need to micromanage Agro's movements. He'll largely move on his own. You dun goofed.

Too bad you didn't enjoy other aspects of the game though.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,268
Still the best horse controls imo. No other game ever got it right. Then again I also love everything about The Last Guardian and how you interact with Trico; I think it's nothing short of genius design.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,072
I played this remake recently and when I was controlling the horse I had more problems with the camera than anything else. At one point I just gave up fighting against it and let the game do his thing but goddam some of the angles are just fucking terrible.

Other than that I can't really complain too much. Yeah I wish the controls were a bit tighter but it wasn't super annoying or anything.

I did play the original on PS2 a long time ago so I already kinda knew what I was getting into.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,065
Shame you didn't enjoy it. I played it after The Last Guardian and found the controls much tighter than that game.

I do think there are maybe too many colossi and the gameplay loop of finding and defeating them outstays its welcome, but there's also no other game quite like it so I can't fault it for committing to that loop for 15 hours.
 

zma1013

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
Agro is best letting him steer himself. If you are trying to control him then it's a losing battle. Just let him do his thing. Only part he gets hung up on is the forest area of which there are only like 2 small places in the game.

As for Wander, I think he controls well for what they were going for. He's intentionally made to feel a bit clumsy whilst climbing on top of moving giants.
 

Clive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,081
The only part where I don't get along with the controls is against the final boss. The climb from right hand to left shoulder is ruined by the camera and you have to make a precision shot with the bow there. The rest of the game controls fine for what it wants to accomplish. It's supposed to be a struggle to climb the colossi and you are supposed to fight against the stamina management. Agro controls perfectly fine.

I loved fighting the colossi and most of them are very creatively designed and the solution to beating them varies greatly. Never got old for me as they generally managed to surprise you. It's really satisfying to figure out a plan to beat them.

It is one of the greatest games of all time in my book. I can fully understand not liking it though but I don't think you would have gotten the same sense of struggle from for example Uncharted-like climbing mechanics.
 

monmagman

Member
Dec 6, 2018
4,126
England,UK
I had no issues with the controls tbh,I've played it twice now PS3 remaster and PS4 remake.....honestly though I'm just not that sensitive to control issues people seem to have in games,I thought RDR2 was fine as well.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,566
I feel like the classic controls would've been the better option for you, if the default had Argo's movement on triangle lol. On classic controls you use X to make Argo start galloping, and triangle to get on, so like a PS2 GTA. The only frustrating thing is when you get to areas where Argo can only trot, but they don't really happen too often.

I just finished it the other day after owning it since launch, and I didn't like it as much as the original version, mainly due to the artstyle changes, although Colossus 13 glitched the hell out for me, which sort of soured me on the whole thing because it's such a good fight on the original.

Gameplay wise my biggest problem has always been that outside of Colossus 11, there's a whole stretch of 8-12 that are either boring or just aren't fun to fight, and it always manages to somehow kill the pacing of a like 6 hour game for me.
 
OP
OP
Readler

Readler

Member
Oct 6, 2018
1,972
Pretty sure Agro steers by itself during that fight. You only need to aim.
That's what I read online! He would still slow down or run into one of the pillars :/

I played this remake recently and when I was controlling the horse I had more problems with the camera than anything else. At one point I just gave up fighting against it and let the game do his thing but goddam some of the angles are just fucking terrible.

Other than that I can't really complain too much. Yeah I wish the controls were a bit tighter but it wasn't super annoying or anything.

I did play the original on PS2 a long time ago so I already kinda knew what I was getting into.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention the camera. The overly aggressive centering in combination with the general positioning, especially during the climbing parts, more than once got in my way!
It's like Journey, if the game doesn't click with you then you won't understand its praise.
Then again, I absolutely adore Journey 🤷‍♀️

Shame you didn't enjoy it. I played it after The Last Guardian and found the controls much tighter than that game.

I do think there are maybe too many colossi and the gameplay loop of finding and defeating them outstays its welcome, but there's also no other game quite like it so I can't fault it for committing to that loop for 15 hours.
It's weird - it took me ~6 hours, which is somewhat short, to finish the game start to finish according to the ingame counter, yet it also felt like much longer.

It is one of the greatest games of all time in my book. I can fully understand not liking it though but I don't think you would have gotten the same sense of struggle from for example Uncharted-like climbing mechanics.
This I agree with. I enjoyed that you had to hold R2 to get a feeling of connectedness with Wander, I was more talking about knowing where you can climb or not. It wasn't clear what was grabbable and what wasn't outside of fur/vines, which became annoying particularly when trying to defeat the flying dragon/worm colossus.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,566
The climb from right hand to left shoulder is ruined by the camera and you have to make a precision shot with the bow there
I actually (possibly) figured out how to do that properly the other day. I just stabbed the right hand, and it'll just hold it still in place long enough for you to let your stamina fill back up a decent chunk and fire your bow at the shoulder weak spot.
I'd always just tried to use the momentum from his arm movements to swing across, because I didn't realize you could just stab the right hand as there was no weak spot on it.
 

Clive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,081
This I agree with. I enjoyed that you had to hold R2 to get a feeling of connectedness with Wander, I was more talking about knowing where you can climb or not. It wasn't clear what was grabbable and what wasn't outside of fur/vines, which became annoying particularly when trying to defeat the flying dragon/worm colossus.
Yeah, maybe the wings could have had their climbing ledges a bit more pronounced. I didn't struggle in the remake but that might have been because it was somewhere in the back of my memory from playing the original. Normally, I think the game does a good job of marking where you can climb though. I don't remember any other instances like that.

I actually (possibly) figured out how to do that properly the other day. I just stabbed the right hand, and it'll just hold it still in place long enough for you to let your stamina fill back up a decent chunk and fire your bow at the shoulder weak spot.
I'd always just tried to use the momentum from his arm movements to swing across, because I didn't realize you could just stab the right hand as there was no weak spot on it.
Why didn't you tell me earlier?! :p I really struggled with that part during the time attack trials. It happens after about 4 minutes into the fight too and you have to replay a pretty uneventful chunk if you fail.
 

Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,791
I love it despite all the little annyoances. Though i wish they had worked on the camera in this remake. It's the worst aspect of the game. But even with the bad camera it's one of the best games of all time. The atmosphere is just phenomenal. When i'm riding on my horse through these large and beautiful areas i always giggle with excitement. The sheer scale of it all is so breathtaking. Fuck Celosia though, worst fight in the whole game.
 

Deleted member 17207

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,208
Disagree. This will sound pretentious and like I just don't want to admit the controls are bad - but stay with me.

The controls have a "style" to them. I can completely understand that style not jiving with someone, but I definitely think this game controls exactly how it wants to/should, and once you get the hang of those controls - the game is as much of a puzzle solving game as it is a "trying to master your self" kind of game.
 

ffvorax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,855
Its not that bad or hard to control the game... the game is quite easy actually... I personally always had issue on with 1 boss, and not because of the controls...
(the one you need to play hide & seek)

So I disagree, it just need some practice.
 

Makoto Yuki

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,396
Haha if you thought the controls were bad on the PS4 imagine playing the game with the original PS2 control scheme, or how Wander would fall off easily in the PS3 version.

Hard disagree. Game is a minimalistic masterpiece.
 
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En-ou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,839
I can see why tons of gamers won't like Team Icos games. I myself think they're genius and besides Zelda and From games, it's the only games I highly anticipate.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,466
It's like Journey, if the game doesn't click with you then you won't understand its praise.

I don't really think so, because unless I'm mistaken there's nothing abrasive in Journey. You might go away feeling as though you don't understand what all the fuss has been about, but I doubt you'll leave annoyed.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,797
Not a game I particularly enjoy either, OP. I think the concept is great, and some of the colossi offer an amazing fight, even if a bit frustrating. But the controls ruin it for me. It's like I am constantly fighting the controls for the character to do what I want. I understand their intent, but it just wasn't fun for me.
 

hydruxo

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,396
Yeah I played this for the first time this year and the controls were definitely janky and annoying. Still a gorgeous game and well worth playing through, but some of the bosses were frustrating due to the controls and camera.
 

Het_Nkik

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,392
Disagree. This will sound pretentious and like I just don't want to admit the controls are bad - but stay with me.

The controls have a "style" to them. I can completely understand that style not jiving with someone, but I definitely think this game controls exactly how it wants to/should, and once you get the hang of those controls - the game is as much of a puzzle solving game as it is a "trying to master your self" kind of game.
Yeah, this is a good way to put it.

The game controls in a very deliberate way, a way that's supposed to make you feel like climbing giant monsters is hard and unpredictable.

If the player can't get into that, nothing's going to bring them around. I think it's perfect, though.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,600
I think a lot of people, especially seeing this games from afar for so long, come up with an "ideal" control method in their heads and then are thrown for a loop when the game doesn't match that pre-defined notion. And thus, the controls are "bad".

I still see a lot of people thrown off by the controls when you're on horseback, but the thing you have to remember is that every other game is technically doing it wrong. In nearly every video game, when your character jumps on a horse, control shifts to the horse, and the player takes direct control of the horse. It's a very "video-gamey" way of riding a horse. Even new games still do it this way. But in SotC, when you jump on Agro, you're still controlling Wander, and Wander is in turn simply giving simple directions to Agro. She's more than capable of finding her own way. I found riding on horseback in SotC, from the original PS2 version up to the PS4 remake, to be a very hands-off experience. I just point Agro in the right direction and I can literally put the controller down for minutes at a time, or just enough to give her a quick nudge left or right. Just like you would IRL.
 

MC_Leon6494

Member
Sep 7, 2018
501
Still the best horse controls imo
The horse controls in SotC ruined every other horse in video games. Horses are not stupid, and they have a mind of their own! They will take your suggestions into account but they will also avoid running the fuck off cliffs and try to avoid running into shit like trees (this is an @ RDR2)
As for the rest of your control complaints, ehhh? You can remap stuff so TRIANGLE isn't as important of a button but I never had any problems with it and I appreciate how deliberate the game feels. Wander still has some really smart, fluid movement and it's kinda shocking to think that the game first released in '05. It's definitely not your average game feel, and takes some getting used to. The swimming is incredibly slow and annoying, and those colossi kinda suck. I will say that my first playthrough of the game (on PS2) was more like 15 hours, I just wandered around the world and explored. Finding lots of the lizards and fruits.
It's definitely a game I will recommend to everyone but I also understand it has flaws and quirks that are absolutely off-putting. As for the Reggie quote? I kinda disagree. In the same way that not every movie is fun, I think there's space in the medium for games that have a goal other than "fun." I also adored The Last Guardian, and quite literally have a shadow of the colossus tattoo
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,888
I got used to the controls eventually so it wasn't a big deal for me.

The game gets praised because it is wildly unique and inventive with an amazing atmosphere. I found it a lot of fun because of it. The flying fights are still awesome. The fights still offer this awed experience of fighting something massive and that it communicates this so well is part of why it is such a revered game.

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Oct 25, 2017
1,843
I don't really think so, because unless I'm mistaken there's nothing abrasive in Journey. You might go away feeling as though you don't understand what all the fuss has been about, but I doubt you'll leave annoyed.
I had game dev friends, who I gifted Journey to, that got stuck on the second level and quit. Apparently figuring out how to make the bridge was too hard.

Some people just inexplicably struggle with some games the rest of us find easy.
 

deroli

Member
Nov 5, 2017
544
Germany
I consider the original on PS2 one of the biggest achievements in video game history. Nothing came close to SotC at the time of its release and it is one of my most beloved video games (memories).
So I was eager to find out how the remake would hold up when I decided to give it a try just two weeks ago. And I have to say, it still exudes some magic. Artistically the game is absolute class, whether it's the iconic colossus' design, the impressive soundtrack or the haunting world. And Bluepoint did an incredible job with the graphics - it looks as beautiful as I hoped it would be.
While most things in this game are simply brilliant, core gameplay disappointed me at times. Many fights were much simpler (i.e. less complex) than I remembered and the biggest challenges resulted from camera and control issues rather than figuring out their weaknesses and mechanics. I know you are not supposed to control the camera constantly but there are just too many moments when I just did not know which part of the colossus Wanderer was holding on to or in which direction I had to move in order to reach another body part. This was my biggest problem with TLG, too.
Controlling Agro also felt clumsy to me, but fortunately riding is not an integral part of most fights. However, after finishing the game, I chose to explore the rest of the world and paid closer attention to his (her?) behaviour. First time I crossed a bridge without "steering" him as I used to, Agro directly crashed into the pillar that stood there right at the bridge's end. And there were many many moments when correcting the camera position has been an absolute must while travelling because otherwise navigation because a pain in the ass.
With impressions like these, it is hard to just "let the game do its job" with the camera in situations when your stamina or health is low. I definitely would have preferred an overhaul, not just of aesthetics, but rather the game's mechanics, too. It is still a good game that I will recommend, but I cannot comprehend the universal praise the remake has received by reviewers.
 

Teeth

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,926
The horse controls in SotC ruined every other horse in video games. Horses are not stupid, and they have a mind of their own! They will take your suggestions into account but they will also avoid running the fuck off cliffs and try to avoid running into shit like trees (this is an @ RDR2)

Funny thing about RDR2 horses - if you don't press any direction and just keep tapping gallop, they also won't run into any trees. They will automatically navigate around them...unless you try to force them off of the natural path they are going.
 

nachum00

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,397
The camera sucks but the controls are fine. Games like SotC and Katamari only work because of the strange controls and mechanics. If they played more like modern games they'd be way too easy and boring.
 

A.M.R

Member
May 17, 2020
176
As for the Reggie quote? I kinda disagree. In the same way that not every movie is fun, I think there's space in the medium for games that have a goal other than "fun." I also adored The Last Guardian, and quite literally have a shadow of the colossus tattoo

Yeah, not all games are designed to be fun. and the very definition of fun is different from person to person.

An experince is only enjoyable if you can relate to it. I mean Wander wasn't having fun in this journey nor he was fighting for fun. As the players, we are supposed to feel the struggle, hoplessness & limitations against the colossi. Everything felt so believable to me down to the horse who felt like a living creature & my only friend in this world.
I really enjoyed that experience despite the technical limitations on ps2.


If they played more like modern games they'd be way too easy and boring.

I agree with this as well