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Farrac

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,082
Alcalá de Henares, Spain
One aspect that is rarely brought up when discussing difficulty choices in games is how an "Easy Mode" doesn't really mean that the game is going to be easy, but that it is a difficulty tailored for those less experienced in this sort of games. In fact, having an easier difficulty choice might provide some people with something closer to the apparently sacred intended experience instead of an overly difficult one that just puts them off or makes them have a harder time than needed.
I haven't played that much of either but how can you platinum Bloodborne but not be able to get past the first boss or regular enemies in Sekiro? Is the gap in difficulty really that much? Or does Bloodborne's RPG-like elements help more?
Probably the latter. There's no way around Sekiro's challenges, you kinda have to power through them. I didn't have that much of a problem because I like to play dex builds while parrying a lot, but maybe those that like to dick around with fun magic spells are going to have a real hard time adjusting.
 

Kientin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,278
I'm for the devs making whatever choice they want to make regarding making the game. Game dev is hard and I like them to make the game according to the vision they want for it. It's one of the reasons why I think From Soft games turn out as good as they do. Demon's Souls could have turned into a vastly different game if they didn't trust what they wanted to do.

That said though I'm all for the modding community bending the game to whatever they want it to be. I love it even. And I love that they made an easy mode so a wider group of people can enjoy it. The modding community can change things to make things more easy and intense, serious or goofy and it's amazing. People can tailor their experience however they want and it's one reason why I love PC.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I know people who have dropped off on these games because they didn't enjoy the first few hours, and I always feel kind of bad because they end up missing out on the rest of the game when I think they would have.

I think it's totally understandable to get frustrated and not want to deal with the struggle to learn the game to the level that the game wants you to. I don't blame people for feeling that way. Sometimes people just don't feel like putting in the time and effort to do that before the game becomes enjoyable, but they still want to see the lore and world that was created in the game.

Fromsoft clearly doesn't agree, but I respect their decision about it since it's their game, after all. I just don't think it would hurt to have a more accessible game mode.
 
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Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
Honestly, OP, I cannot fucking believe you. In all my years of being a gamer, I have never felt so disgusted reading how you destroyed the developer's vision for the game with an easy mode. The offense that you've delivered made me break my door because the anger I feel is unimaginable. Not every game is made for everyone and the the fact that you had to taint the vision From Software put into the game just so that you could experience it is just baffling. I mean, did you even really play Sekiro if you played it on easy? What sort of pride and accomplishment is there when there's no challenge. I'm done. How other people experience this game is large part of my personality to the point where i simply cannot accept anyone as a person if they've cheated themselves from the vision of From Software. /s
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,348
FL, United States
I might just try this. Exploration has always been my favorite aspects of these games. I've always been in favor of something that would selectively make it easier for players who aren't looking for such an intense challenge.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,741
USA
One problem I have with the souls games is that at some point I get tired of dying to regular enemies and start running past them instead. Which sort of ruins the exploration aspect of the game. I don't really take in the game as much as it deserves.
 

purseowner

From the mirror universe
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,444
UK
One aspect that is rarely brought up when discussing difficulty choices in games is how an "Easy Mode" doesn't really mean that the game is going to be easy, but that it is a difficulty tailored for those less experienced in this sort of games. In fact, having an easier difficulty choice might provide some people with something closer to the apparently sacred intended experience instead of an overly difficult one that just puts them off or makes them have a harder time than needed.
Excellently put.

All many of us want through an Easy Mode is the ability to enjoy the game like those able or skilled with the game were able to. What is challenging varies from person to person.

Didn't know such a thing existed - I'll check this out if I ever get a PC with specs good enough again.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
_106419406_68a5abd2-5b20-4602-8f5b-fb558b56780f-nc.png


I haven't played Sekiro...

...but I used an easy mod on Demon's Souls and Dark Souls after a few playthroughs and LOVED it.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,772
I did give it an honest attempt on PS4 but I got stuck on Butterfly (didnt realize it was optional at the time).
The GOTY convinced me to get on PC and I used a cheat trainer. It wasn't a breeze like some have posted. Sure you could make it ridiculously easy but all I did was increase damage and allow more blocking allowance. Even with those it can still get ridiculously hard towards the later half and its mostly due to FromSoft clever game/enemy design. Glad I managed to experience it since I'm a huge Bloodborne fan, can't wait to play Demon's Souls next week.
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,813
Brazil
I really like the idea of fans doing an easy mod for games considered hard, and it's pretty cool that this exist for Sekiro.

Though i don't think devs should be forced to do easy modes inside the game themselves. More testing and balancing is needed, which translates into time and resources that could've been used for stuff the dev consider more essential to the experience.

Does easy mods for the 3 Dark Souls games exists, perhaps? I wonder how they would work in online pvp.
 

En-ou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,839
I really like the idea of fans doing an easy mod for games considered hard, and it's pretty cool that this exist for Sekiro.

Though i don't think devs should be forced to do easy modes inside the game themselves. More testing and balancing is needed, which translates into time and resources that could've been used for stuff the dev consider more essential to the experience.

Does easy mods for the 3 Dark Souls games exists, perhaps? I wonder how they would work in online pvp.
Dark Souls 3 easy mode is in the form of summons. You can optionally summon NPC story characters who will aid you on most bosses.
 

MiDoZ

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
830
I dropped the game because it was just too stressful to me.
which is a shame because I really liked it :/
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,246
Yeah I wasn't as wild about the first time I played because it was so fucking hard

Once I got decent at it I enjoyed my subsequent runs immeasurably more than my first

Would not fault anyone for simulating that feeling on their first run with mods, cheats, whatever - there's a lot more to like about the game than just its difficulty!
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,817
I fought and beat Owl (Father) on a 7mbps remote play connection. That was hell. But damn, was it fun! I'm fine with Fromsoft games having an easy mode or accessibility options. Play how you want to.
 

Shan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,963
Still one of my least favorite FROM's game but i'm glad you had a blast with it OP!
 

karmitt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,818
I dropped the game because it was just too stressful to me.
which is a shame because I really liked it :/

Same. It remains probably one of the most exiting PS4 games I played, until very suddenly it was not. I hit a wall, gave it two sessions of around two hours each trying to get past different bosses / mini bosses and I just couldn't. Had to give up and sell it.

I would buy it again at full price if they allowed some sort of optional difficulty tuning/adjustment
 

Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
I really like the idea of fans doing an easy mod for games considered hard, and it's pretty cool that this exist for Sekiro.

Though i don't think devs should be forced to do easy modes inside the game themselves. More testing and balancing is needed, which translates into time and resources that could've been used for stuff the dev consider more essential to the experience.

Does easy mods for the 3 Dark Souls games exists, perhaps? I wonder how they would work in online pvp.

i'm sure there's mods for all the souls games on pc. at the very worst you could just use cheatengine too. shouldn't go online with these mods though, that just makes you an asshole.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,044
the whole point of mods in general is to mess with the game to your liking

so good on you! :)
 
Nov 8, 2017
6,318
Stockholm, Sweden
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Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,603
To me one of the biggest moments of the generation was revisiting Sekiro bosses after the combat clicked and finally beating the final boss after being unable to hit it twice on the first attempts.

Easy mode probable makes explorations more fun if thats what you seek, but its obviously not the experience the devs want you to have with their game. If Serkiro had an easy mode, I probably would have used it in an early boss, and I would have missed those moments. So, I dont really like easy modes on these games.
Like fucking clockwork.

As usual, I feel compelled to point out that your argument means bowling alleys shouldn't have bumpers, because you wouldn't be able to resist using them. Your inability to control yourself, your easily made choice, means others shouldn't even have the ability to enjoy themselves.
 

AM_LIGHT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,725
I went ahead and preordered the PS4 version after seeing the digital foundry BC video. I have platinumed Bloodborne and finished DS remastered multiple times. Do you guys think having the game finally run at a stable 60 FPS on consoles would make it easier or is the game still going to be extremely hard ?
 

s y

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,432
I went ahead and preordered the PS4 version after seeing the digital foundry BC video. I have platinumed Bloodborne and finished DS remastered multiple times. Do you guys think having the game finally run at a stable 60 FPS on consoles would make it easier or is the game still going to be extremely hard ?
Once you get the parrying/reflecting down, and shake off your souls/bloodborne habits and realize the combat is just guitar hero, it's difficulty pretty much disappears. The beginning hours can be rough though. I imagine at 60fps will help with timing/responsiveness.
 

Skyebaron

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,416
Glad you enjoyed my goty 2019 op. Everyone should experience it. There should be an easy option for everyone. People dont always want challenge. If the only thing that makes your game fun and memorable is its grueling difficulty, then your game just fucking sucks. Fortunately Sekiro and Souls games are more than just their difficulty.
 

AM_LIGHT

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,725
Once you get the parrying/reflecting down, and shake off your souls/bloodborne habits and realize the combat is just guitar hero, it's difficulty pretty much disappears. The beginning hours can be rough though. I imagine at 60fps will help with timing/responsiveness.
This actually sounds appealing. I like it when combat become a game of rhythm. The constant 60 FPS will help immensely with getting the timing down.
 

Pipyakas

Member
Jul 20, 2018
549
This is still a thing huh
At this point Im gonna just wait for anyone who FORBID these games to have a easy mode stream themselves doing a no damage run everytime they touch a FromSoft game. God damn if you want your elite gamer status so much, just show it to everyone
 

Fraxin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
864
Sekiro was the only from software game that really clicked with me and I finished. Reached almost halfway through Dark Souls before getting bored and dropping it.

Didn't realize it's considered one of the most difficult.
 

alphacat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,932
Yeah, I played Sekiro with an Easy Mod from Nexus Mod.

This made the game very easy, but amazingly fun.

I loved Bloodborne (plat) and DS3 (3 playthroughs), for the combat, exploration, level design, visual design... But Sekiro kicked my ass very hard and I didn't felt having to deal with the game systems for EVERY single multiple enemies confrontation...

The mod ended up making exploration feel SO MUCH more fun. Combat vs some enemies, boss and room still could be a challenge.

And yes, I think Souls game SHOULD have an easy mod. I would have given up on Sekiro after a few hours, never reaching Ashina Castle. But now, it made me love the game, explore every inch of it, going back and forth so many time to explore, try stuff, remembering NPC quests, etc...

These game have so much more to offer than punishing systems, their world and design are a joy to explore and I wish everyone could enjoy Sekiro incredible's journey as I could because I had a blast and I wish everyone could chain grappling hook accross giant castle rooftops and feel like a master ninja.

Also, people who beat Hatred Demon, kudos.

thanks OP this makes me interested in buying Sekiro on steam
 

Martinski

Member
Jan 15, 2019
8,424
Göteborg
Playing on pc is is easy mode as It is with much smoother framerate and choice of any controller you want to use. It makes all The difference tbh playing at locked 60 fps compared to the chippy 30-45 fps you had on consoles.
 

Tygerjaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
749
Sekiro is the only game by From that I have zero desire to visit again. I've finished it, but it was so hard that made me hate the combat. I really don't parrying compared to say Metal Gear Rising. It's a shame cuz I loved the setting and art direction.

A couple of years ago I would say that "cheating" to make a game easy was wrong, but now I don't care as long as people are having fun and enjoying their experience. I guess it comes with age. ,
 

tomsawing

Member
Jul 27, 2020
234
Easy mode probable makes explorations more fun if thats what you seek, but its obviously not the experience the devs want you to have with their game.
Personally nothing will ever make me give a rat's ass about how developers think the optimal way to play their game is. People have different reaction times, different levels of intelligence, different prior experiences with certain types of gameplay. Some people are physically or mentally impaired in ways that make Gitting Gud literally impossible. I understand that these games are hard and that's part of the fun for some people. But there are also a lot of people who wish they would just acknowledge that they can be a little bit too hard. I mean are there even demos for any of these games? How are you supposed to know if they're even playable for you before you buy them? I know the solution is easy and it's just not to play these games, but it's really shitty and disappointing when everyone talks about how amazing they are and they're completely inaccessible because the developers don't give a shit about anyone who might struggle.
 

Deleted member 20471

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,109
I went ahead and preordered the PS4 version after seeing the digital foundry BC video. I have platinumed Bloodborne and finished DS remastered multiple times. Do you guys think having the game finally run at a stable 60 FPS on consoles would make it easier or is the game still going to be extremely hard ?
"Easier" is a big word but you will feel less frustrated, that's for sure.
 

RankFTW

Member
Oct 28, 2017
718
Scotland
I got 100% on Sakiro and it was fucking solid. If you need an easy mod to enjoy the game then that's no problem man, it's an amazing game and should be played by everyone with a passing interest. I don't agree about these types of games having an easy mode from the start though as I know the temptation would be there.
 

Ringten

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,195
Glad you enjoyed it OP!
Soul fans can be... uhm.. something 😂
Don't let anyone tell you what you can and cannot enjoy

But I do agree with the sentiment that there should not be an easy mode as the temptation would be there for a lot of people to play it on easy instead of learning the game.
I actually enjoyed Sekiro the most since I genuinely feel it's the fairest game of them all, and in some ways the most satisfying.

Sometimes gotta respect the developers vision and intent. If it is for you, great. If it's not, unfortunate but there are plenty other games
 

Udreif

Member
May 29, 2020
518
That's pretty cool OP, I think Sekiro for all its accessibility improvements in terms of letting the player know how the game works can still miss the mark when it comes to letting players find ways around obstacles. At some point (for me it was the final boss, lol) you have to learn the combat system and become really good at it.

And by the sound of it you still felt challenged especially if you couldn't beat the Demon of Hatred, which is a plus. I disagree with people saying that fromsoft doesn't believe in letting the players choose how difficult the game is, it's literally built-in in every other from game: multiple play-styles and exploration-based rewards that can make your character much stronger without having to fight a thing, co-op, magic, items, etc.. Even Sekiro has skills, combat arts and the prosthetic which are meant to help the player find a way around things they struggle with. But in the end Sekiro still relies too much on the parry mechanic for some people, and as has been said in this thread, those people will be more likely to get the intended From experience™ if the difficulty curve is lower overall.

I think from won't put an easy mode into their games, but not because they're gatekeeping who gets to play the game, that's just gamers™ being gamers™. I think From knows that if they put an easy mode as is, a lot of people will be confused as to which to pick, and when they choose it they'll feel or be made to feel as if they didn't get the "real" experience. Elden Ring probably won't have an easy mode ( although it would be just fine if it did ), and if it missed the mark in letting players find easier ways to overcome obstacles, then the modding community will supply it, and there's just nothing wrong with that.