LTTP: SaGa Scarlet Grace Ambitions

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Happy Boxing Day, everyone.

I started playing this a couple of days ago. I've seen it held in high regard around here.

It's an interesting game. I am having fun playing it and seeing how all the different things I do affect the map, sometimes in pretty big ways. The battle system takes a while to get a handle on, but I can clear most "Hard" battles after a try or two at this point. It feels a bit grindy though, especially if you want to get new characters up to speed (and I've picked up so many!)

My protagonist is Leo and his 90% ridiculous motivation. I think I might be nearing the end of his story? I have most of the Scarlet Shards at this point and I've had one superboss encounter pop up on the map (which I did not even try to challenge). I am currently supposed to go to Azhuacan, after reaching the Northeast Boundary, being told that Ei-Hanum is "at the centre of the world," and assuming that means it's below Azhuacan. But at the moment I am exploring other places instead, and especially trying to get some of this specialty product development going... of which there is so much that it's just feeding my suspicion about the game length.

I was hesitant on this game due to the artwork, and honestly? I'm enjoying it a lot, but the game's presentation hurts it so much. The art direction is pretty mediocre all around. Like after starting the game up and playing for a bit I was kind of baffled that this is the game I've seen so much praise for around here and I considered quitting. The character and enemy art is mediocre at best (and it does that stupid shit where it makes the female characters thin in a way that is distracting as all hell because it just means that they have no ribcages), the music is generic, the voice work is meh (particularly some of the battle dialog is gratingly poor whether in voice work or actual writing or both), the UI is shockingly noisy, unattractive, and poor at effectively communicating the most important information, and some of the text is bafflingly small even in Classic mode, which is supposed to be designed for smaller screens? I'm playing on a TV and I have the UI set to Classic because I tried Modern and holy god the font is like pt 4. At least on Classic it's mostly not incredibly tiny.

Like I'm enjoying it now and I intend to see it through to the end but the art direction in all respects is just a huge turn off at first.

But I am enjoying it now and so I am curious about a few things:

1. Are the other protagonists like a NG+ thing or is this one of those games where multiple playthoughs is part of the actual narrative in some way? My protagonist is Leo but I can see Balmaint is another protagonist via the title screen and he's actually in my party already.
2. Regardless of which is the answer to the previous question, I hope that there's like NG+ benefits or something to speed up later parts because it does feel a bit grindy at times.
3. There are so many playable characters. Should I be focusing on anyone specific? Because I've been grabbing anyone I can and alternating doing weak encounters with the newcomers and sending them on missions.
4. I've been keeping everyone to just mastering one weapon really well. My highest weapon level masteries are around level 25 at the moment. Should I be making people dual class? What's the maximum weapon rank?
5. There is so much product development. I can't believe how long that list is vs how long it took me to unlock access to it. How important is this? I kind of want to run around doing all of it but I haven't seen enough of it to know if it really matters. All I've done so far is turn some straw into nets or compost. And I can't seem to find where either goes from there.

Thanks, all.

 

[Portmanteau]

I really liked this game but fell off hard. I don't think it has much to offer outside of the battles (which are *amazing*), and I needed more to keep me hooked long term.

 

[Tfritz]

tomomi kobayashi's character designs are good, actually.

 

[Tfritz]

Anyway re: other protagonists: In this game, each character needs to complete three (of four possible) main storylines, and each protagonist starts in one of those four storylines. So like Leo starts with the Scarlet Shard story, but Balmaint starts with... um... chasing what's his face, the dorky elf dude, I don't remember his name off the top of my head, and each protagonist tends to shed some more light on their specific stories. Also Leo's whole vibe is sort of.... it feels a bit more like a New Game + run because it's very jokey and the characters are all "Well that's stupid and dumb and I don't actually care about it" to events?

 

[EggmaniMN]

I have absolutely no idea how anyone could find SaGa series music generic in any way. It has always had some of the very best music in Square's entire repertoire.

Also Leo's story is typically seen as one you'd do maybe last out of the four as his story is weird not really in line with the others and even more open than the rest. The others have more structure to them and do their own things.

I really recommend watching a speedrun of the game when you're done because it'll be pretty eye opening just how quickly you can get through the game, how well you can utilize skill sparking, benisons and the whole system. It's just great great stuff.

 

[Dreamboum]

The music slaps hard

 

[Zen Hero]

I can answer some of your questions!

1. Each protagonist essentially has their own storyline, although some events are shared between them. You can NG+ into another protagonist, yeah.
2. NG+ unlocks a faster battle speed option, and characters carry over the weapon levels and techs. So it should feel less grindy.
3. Use whoever you like I would say. I tend to choose about 8 characters to focus on. It's good to have backups for when characters need to recover LP, but you don't need to raise every single character because that would be way too grindy.
4. Having a character focus on one weapon is a good idea, because most of a character's strength is tied to weapon levels and techs. By learning multiple weapons, you can unlock more passive abilities, however they aren't super important, and I would save that for NG+. Since your characters keep their weapon levels in NG+, you can train them in a new weapon then to unlock more passive abilities.
5. The trading quest is hard to get started, but once you do enough of it, it starts really getting going. It's not too important though, it gives you some nice world building and resources mostly. Progress also carries over into NG+, so I wouldn't worry about it too much until later, when you have seen more of the world.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

Square used the lower graphical standard to make one of the largest and most-interesting open-worlds to appear in an RPG. Everything pieces together so well, and my appreciation has only grown for it across my seven playthroughs.

Leo has very little plot, and is the "true" open-world of the bunch.

- Leo is open-world, and also the easiest as long as one acknowledges that you need to do sidequests and the thin main quest isn't enough to safely tackle the (easiest) final boss.
- Urpina is the closest to a traditional RPG in the first half, with plot branches and dramatic moments, and then open for the second-half with the free-scenario system.
- Balmaint's is a series of very bottled chapters, and one plot branch cuts you off from most of the world for the final chapter. Probably my favorite?
- Taria is the loosest and I'd argue least well-designed. She has the best starting team by a huge margin, but also the hardest selection of final boss variants.

All four of the main plots exist in the world in some capacity as sidequests for the other characters, with their own variations and resolutions and even whether it plays into the final plot. The sidequest version of Urpina's game that appears in Balmaint's game is something else. Taria's Phoenix plot is the weakest, whether it is on hers as a required main plot or the sidequest version for other characters.

Product Development is just something to do across 3 or 6 playthroughs, or whatever. It drip feeds you good materials.

You definitely want to do NG+, but don't carry over too much. Keep it challenging and interesting and see how things unfold based on what you're given. The cast of 80 is shockingly well-balanced, with some truly great all-stars in the pool of "generics" (like Kumi or Orville).

Weapon Ranks won't really rise much past whatever your playthrough-wide "Battle Rank" is, so doing other weapon types will raise faster. However, unlocking roles is IMO tricky, and you're probably better off sticking to a single weapon type if you feel in over your head.

 

[Astral]

I need to get back to this game. I'm still early on with the pink haired girl. I already forgot the game. The battle system had me immediately hooked but I just started playing other stuff.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

tomomi kobayashi's character designs are good, actually.

Click to shrink...

I haven't really seen anything that stands out so far. It mostly feels pretty generic JRPG.

I remember seeing some official art in another thread; I think it was the artwork that's used in the Switch icon. That was good art. The game's execution of it disservices it.

Anyway re: other protagonists: In this game, each character needs to complete three (of four possible) main storylines, and each protagonist starts in one of those four storylines. So like Leo starts with the Scarlet Shard story, but Balmaint starts with... um... chasing what's his face, the dorky elf dude, I don't remember his name off the top of my head, and each protagonist tends to shed some more light on their specific stories. Also Leo's whole vibe is sort of.... it feels a bit more like a New Game + run because it's very jokey and the characters are all "Well that's stupid and dumb and I don't actually care about it" to events?

Click to shrink...

I have absolutely no idea how anyone could find SaGa series music generic in any way. It has always had some of the very best music in Square's entire repertoire.

Also Leo's story is typically seen as one you'd do maybe last out of the four as his story is weird not really in line with the others and even more open than the rest. The others have more structure to them and do their own things.

I really recommend watching a speedrun of the game when you're done because it'll be pretty eye opening just how quickly you can get through the game, how well you can utilize skill sparking, benisons and the whole system. It's just great great stuff.

Click to shrink...

Now I'm kind of wishing I had started with a different protagonist.

The music slaps hard

Click to shrink...

I mean, it's fine. It doesn't feel like it stands out to me at all though. Feels pretty generic JRPG rock music.

I can answer some of your questions!

1. Each protagonist essentially has their own storyline, although some events are shared between them. You can NG+ into another protagonist, yeah.
2. NG+ unlocks a faster battle speed option, and characters carry over the weapon levels and techs. So it should feel less grindy.
3. Use whoever you like I would say. I tend to choose about 8 characters to focus on. It's good to have backups for when characters need to recover LP, but you don't need to raise every single character because that would be way too grindy.
4. Having a character focus on one weapon is a good idea, because most of a character's strength is tied to weapon levels and techs. By learning multiple weapons, you can unlock more passive abilities, however they aren't terribly important, and I would save that for NG+. Since your characters keep their weapon levels in NG+, you can train them in a new weapon then to unlock more passive abilities.
5. The trading quest is hard to get started, but once you do enough of it, it starts really getting going. It's not too important though, it gives you some nice world building and resources mostly. Progress also carries over into NG+, so I wouldn't worry about it too much until later, when you have seen more of the world.

Click to shrink...

Oh, I am very happy to hear that the weapon levels keep across NG+. I'll use later playthroughs to level different weapons then.

And the trading quest carrying over is perfect. Really happy about that.

Square used the lower graphical standard to make one of the largest and most-interesting open-worlds to appear in an RPG. Everything pieces together so well, and my appreciation has only grown for it across my seven playthroughs.

Leo has very little plot, and is the "true" open-world of the bunch.

- Leo is open-world.
- Urpina is the closest to a traditional RPG in the first half, with plot branches and dramatic moments, and then open for the second-half with the free-scenario system.
- Balmaint's is a series of very bottled chapters, and one plot branch cuts you off from most of the world for the final chapter. Probably my favorite?
- Taria is the loosest and I'd argue least well-designed. She has the best starting team by a huge margin, but also the hardest selection of final boss variants.

Product Development is just something to do across 3 or 6 playthroughs, or whatever. It drip feeds you good materials.

You definitely want to do NG+, but don't carry over too much. Keep it challenging and interesting and see how things unfold based on what you're given. The cast of 80 is shockingly well-balanced, with some truly great all-stars in the pool of "generics" (like Kumi or Orville).

Weapon Ranks won't really rise much past whatever your playthrough-wide "Battle Rank" is, so doing other weapon types will raise faster. However, unlocking roles is IMO tricky, and you're probably better off sticking to a single weapon type if you feel in over your head.

Click to shrink...

80 characters, wow.

Thank you for explaining the storytelling styles of the different protagonists. Now I really wish I hadn't gotten Leo off the bat. 😅

I don't really mind lower graphical standards; I've played many games that aren't graphical powerhouses or anything but use art direction to make them lovely to look at anyway. I just don't think this game pulls that off.

 

[Tibarn]

Completed Urpina route last christmas, aside from the combat (which is amazing and a lot of fun) I didn't find anything remarkable in the game.

The world map being the only area during more than 90% of the game was kind of tiring, the 2nd half of the game felt like boring sidequests (something about a phoenix and obtaining eggs) and the story/characters were really weak. Also the artstyle is not nice at all, I would have liked them using 2D art at least on the menus.

I also expected a lot more from the game considering how is praised by other JRPG fans, but the experience felt more like a smartphone F2P game (without the pay-to-win mechanics) than a classic JRPG.

 

[Exit Music]

It's a fun game and I enjoyed my time with it, but it really stands out for me as the quintessential example of Japanese games with intentionally obscure game systems and mechanics. You miss so much if you don't play with a guide and as I get older it's really hard for me to hang with games like that.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

It's a fun game and I enjoyed my time with it, but it really stands out for me as the quintessential example of Japanese games with intentionally obscure game systems and mechanics. You miss so much if you don't play with a guide and as I get older it's really hard for me to hang with games like that.

Click to shrink...

The in-game Tips section is tremendous. Hundreds of little notes and details, and I was still learning the game's systems well onto my 4th and 5th playthroughs.

Completed Urpina route last christmas, aside from the combat (which is amazing and a lot of fun) I didn't find anything remarkable in the game.

The world map being the only area during more than 90% of the game was kind of tiring, the 2nd half of the game felt like boring sidequests (something about a phoenix and obtaining eggs) and the story/characters were really weak. Also the artstyle is not nice at all, I would have liked them using 2D art at least on the menus.

I also expected a lot more from the game considering how is praised by other JRPG fans, but the experience felt more like a smartphone F2P game (without the pay-to-win mechanics) than a classic JRPG.

Click to shrink...

Taria and Urpina each use a 3-act structure, with the 2nd and 3rd act being optional variations of the main quests of other protagonists. Urpina's in particular plays into her ending considerably, including some really effing weird plot branches if her 3rd act is either Balmaint's Sigfrei arc, or Leo's Scarlet Shards arc. Really fascinating stuff.

If you know of some F2P smartphone games with best-in-class combat mechanics, please let me know. Because that just seems like the generic go-to putdown for a game even when it doesn't really make any sense at all. I argue extensively that it isn't a JRPG, it is an Experimental RPG, because it doesn't follow pretty much any of the genre conventions of the JRPG genre, and doesn't have the same set of strengths at all.

My favorite JRPGs are the ones with good battle systems and that give the player lots of freedom to experience the world. SSG does those in spades, while playing down the story aspects that typically define the genre. And that, I'm fine with.

80 characters, wow.

Thank you for explaining the storytelling styles of the different protagonists. Now I really wish I hadn't gotten Leo off the bat. 😅

I don't really mind lower graphical standards; I've played many games that aren't graphical powerhouses or anything but use art direction to make them lovely to look at anyway. I just don't think this game pulls that off.

Click to shrink...

1) I strongly recommend against carrying over weapon ranks. Part of the thrill and depth of the game is playing around with new characters and discovering what works for different characters party compositions and recruit orders. The game remains consistently challenging and interesting across playthroughs, and the NG+ options that carry over raw power likely chip away at that.

2) Each of the characters can get very different selections of characters. From the start, each has the two main characters and five of the "generics" that are unique to their campaign. Balmaint's generics kind of suck, but he can very quickly get some of the stronger "unique" characters (the main cast of around 25 that is shown in all of the game's great key art). Taria's starting crew is goddamn amazing, but their roles don't quit match with their stat composition so they have some slightly niche uses that don't quite gel with expectations for their weapon types.

3) Leo's is fine first, because his is easiest. The quiz heavily pushes towards Urpina, but she's either the hardest or second hardest. Leo's is a good opportunity to see the world and experiment, knowing that the easy version of the last boss (which is still really fucking hard for a beginner) is just a dialogue choice away as you enter the last fight.

 

[Jakenbakin]

I don't know if it's because I played it on my phone but I've always found the complaints about the art style and it's execution weird. I thought it was more than serviceable graphically with mostly nice models, with great designs and the whole almost living breathing game table aesthetic to the overworld being strong.

I did Urpina the first time I'll have to try Balmaint next.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

It's a fun game and I enjoyed my time with it, but it really stands out for me as the quintessential example of Japanese games with intentionally obscure game systems and mechanics. You miss so much if you don't play with a guide and as I get older it's really hard for me to hang with games like that.

Click to shrink...

IT'S SO BAD FOR THIS. Even with the Tips section, which I am checking constantly, it's so bad for this.

The in-game Tips section is tremendous. Hundreds of little notes and details, and I was still learning the game's systems well onto my 4th and 5th playthroughs.

Click to shrink...

I am still checking this absolutely constantly for enemy types and weaknesses.

1) I strongly recommend against carrying over weapon ranks. Part of the thrill and depth of the game is playing around with new characters and discovering what works for different characters party compositions and recruit orders. The game remains consistently challenging and interesting across playthroughs, and the NG+ options that carry over raw power likely chip away at that.

Click to shrink...

I will think about it. With so many characters, I was expecting to use mostly new people each time anyway, so it doesn't seem like that would be a problem, more of a backup plan for fights that I just want to give up on (though there have been almost none of those, probably because I haven't dared trying anything labeled "Brutal").

2) Each of the characters can get very different selections of characters. From the start, each has the two main characters and five of the "generics" that are unique to their campaign. Balmaint's generics kind of suck, but he can very quickly get some of the stronger "unique" characters (the main cast of around 25 that is shown in all of the game's great key art). Taria's starting crew is goddamn amazing, but their roles don't quit match with their stat composition so they have some slightly niche uses that don't quite gel with expectations for their weapon types.

Click to shrink...

Is there any way to actually like tell any of this? Everything about the stats is so opaque. Do characters actually have unique attributes or is their battle feasibility just the plainly displayed weapon levels and whatnot? Could I make anyone into any role with enough patience?

3) Leo's is fine first, because his is easiest. The quiz heavily pushes towards Urpina, but she's either the hardest or second hardest. Leo's is a good opportunity to see the world and experiment, knowing that the easy version of the last boss (which is still really fucking hard for a beginner) is just a dialogue choice away as you enter the last fight.

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@_@

 

[Tibarn]

Because that just seems like the generic go-to putdown for a game even when it doesn't really make any sense at all.

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It's not about the combat mechanics, it's about everything else. Presentation is poor (graphics are not good, there's no cinematics and cities/dungeons are menus instead of real places, except the thing beneath the big central city), music is really repetitive, story is basic and most of the times you're doing small errands for random NPCs... It feels like a really basic and low-budget RPG, considering its price (the same as most 3DS JRPGs) I was expecting a lot more. I know it has 4 entire routes, but if playing one of them doesn't really offer a compelling story is not that big of a benefit.

As I said, I enjoyed the combat but there's nothing else in the game I found remarkable, and it was really really repetitive even compared to most RPGs.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

Is there any way to actually like tell any of this? Everything about the stats is so opaque. Do characters actually have unique attributes or is their battle feasibility just the plainly displayed weapon levels and whatnot? Could I make anyone into any role with enough patience?

Click to shrink...

Characters are either proficient (their starting stat is 1 or greater) or not proficient (starting with 0). You can still teach them a non-proficient weapon, but there is such a significant penalty that it isn't worth it.

There is some gradient in proficiency for the non-zero people, but it is fairly minor. Characters will also have passive growth rates, where they will gain ranks and "keep up" so to speak even if they are not used in battle.

The stat descriptions in Tips are mostly accurate. Greatswords are mostly strength, Maces are almost all strength, martial arts are Str/Mob (but grab moves use Dex), Axes are strength (but you need Dex/Acuity to not miss a ton). Spears are Str/Acuity, I think, but spinning moves (Sweeper/Reaper) are pure Dex.

The UI tells you the damage types, which is where the nuance of Taria's starting party matters as they have huge bonuses to specific damage types, but stats that aren't universally good for those damage types.

 

[Aeana]

Imagine having a fairly small budget to make an RPG. What do you do? Do you spend it creating a tiny world that has compromised versions of all of the traditional RPG things like towns and dungeons and cutscenes, or do you embrace your reality and put everything into the things that you personally feel are the most important aspects of the game you want to make?

Scarlet Grace is a game that rejected those compromises and leaned hard into a few elements. What you have is an incredibly dense game (in terms of amount of unique events and combat encounters) that does what it does very well. It isn't for everyone, that's for sure, but the people who it is for have all connected with it deeply.

I hope that you do try another character -- Urpina is a fantastic choice for a first run. Leonard is hilarious and truly wonderful, but the effect is kind of lost if it's your first because it's essentially like MST3king the game.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Characters are either proficient (their starting stat is 1 or greater) or not proficient (starting with 0). You can still teach them a non-proficient weapon, but there is such a significant penalty that it isn't worth it.

There is some gradient in proficiency for the non-zero people, but it is fairly minor. Characters will also have passive growth rates, where they will gain ranks and "keep up" so to speak even if they are not used in battle.

The stat descriptions in Tips are mostly accurate. Greatswords are mostly strength, Maces are almost all strength, martial arts are Str/Mob (but grab moves use Dex), Axes are strength (but you need Dex/Acuity to not miss a ton). Spears are Str/Acuity, I think, but spinning moves (Sweeper/Reaper) are pure Dex.

The UI tells you the damage types, which is where the nuance of Taria's starting party matters as they have huge bonuses to specific damage types, but stats that aren't universally good for those damage types.

Click to shrink...

"Starting stat" meaning weapon proficiency? So is there no way to tell what they're proficient with or not if you've sent them on missions and had random weapon skill levels go up? (God I wish the missions would actually tell me what they will level. Sometimes they imply it but I've guessed wrong before).

Imagine having a fairly small budget to make an RPG. What do you do? Do you spend it creating a tiny world that has compromised versions of all of the traditional RPG things like towns and dungeons and cutscenes, or do you embrace your reality and put everything into the things that you personally feel are the most important aspects of the game you want to make?

Scarlet Grace is a game that rejected those compromises and leaned hard into a few elements. What you have is an incredibly dense game (in terms of amount of unique events and combat encounters) that does what it does very well. It isn't for everyone, that's for sure, but the people who it is for have all connected with it deeply.

I hope that you do try another character -- Urpina is a fantastic choice for a first run. Leonard is hilarious and truly wonderful, but the effect is kind of lost if it's your first because it's essentially like MST3king the game.

Click to shrink...

I don't mind that it doesn't have towns and cutscenes and stuff. I've played grid-based dungeon crawlers; I'm used to half of a game just being menus. The original Strange Journey is one of the best games I've ever played and that game is 100% either menus with 2D art or super-low-DS-resolution blocky corridors and that's it. I just think the art direction unfortunately mostly sucks, and that's something lots of low budget games I've played (including Strange Journey, actually) have done better while also clearly having low budgets.

And that's why I'm sad I got Leo first! His route seems fun for a NG+ run where the characters are basically mirroring your "eh I've seen this before" attitude.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

"Starting stat" meaning weapon proficiency? So is there no way to tell what they're proficient with or not if you've sent them on missions and had random weapon skill levels go up? (God I wish the missions would actually tell me what they will level. Sometimes they imply it but I've guessed wrong before).

Click to shrink...

Weapon proficiency will play into the weapon skill ups at the end of combat. The missions you send people on don't really use that for the most part (I think?)

This is a good page:

[The Strelitzia Inn] SaGa Scarlet Grace: Player Characters

thaao.net

stat of "1" is non-proficient. Different sources use a different 1/0 standard. All 8 of the main characters are proficient in everything.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Weapon proficiency will play into the weapon skill ups at the end of combat. The missions you send people on don't really use that for the most part (I think?)

This is a good page:

[The Strelitzia Inn] SaGa Scarlet Grace: Player Characters

thaao.net

stat of "1" is non-proficient. Different sources use a different 1/0 standard. All 8 of the main characters are proficient in everything.

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That does seem like a really good page, thank you.

If the missions won't level non-proficient weapon types(?) then I'll just be sure to keep everyone to something they start a little higher with.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

That does seem like a really good page, thank you.

If the missions won't level non-proficient weapon types(?) then I'll just be sure to keep everyone to something they start a little higher with.

Click to shrink...

The missions will level stuff that are non-proficient.

When I say passive, I mean that party members that are currently warming your bench will still have weapon ranks climb up, slightly. HP will only increase in battle, however.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

The missions will level stuff that are non-proficient.

When I say passive, I mean that party members that are currently warming your bench will still have weapon ranks climb up, slightly. HP will only increase in battle, however.

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Thank you! This is the kind of thing I wish the game would actually tell me.

Could you also explain how learning new incantations works? It seems like it just has a chance of happening when you get elemental skill levels high enough? Is that right? They don't work like learning new techs but I don't remember the game ever explaining how to get new ones. I have Francis in my party and the dude has had all of two incantations for ages.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

Thank you! This is the kind of thing I wish the game would actually tell me.

Could you also explain how learning new incantations works? It seems like it just has a chance of happening when you get elemental skill levels high enough? Is that right? They don't work like learning new techs but I don't remember the game ever explaining how to get new ones. I have Francis in my party and the dude has had all of two incantations for ages.

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Magic is the weirdest part of the game. You put points into one spell at the end of each series of battles. However, you can't learn a skill unless your elemental stat is high enough, so it is really restricted especially early on.

WHICH spell you learn is complicated. It depends on what staff you are using. Each element has 4 spells.

STANDARD: You will learn the next spell of that spell class.
SPECIFIC SPELL TYPE: If you put points in a the lowest spell of one element, you will learn the spell of the same level in the specific element of the staff. Same for 2/3/4.
TRANSITORY: The lowest spell of some other element.
REVERSE: Putting points in the lowest spell of an element learns the 4th. 2nd teaches the 1st.

There's probably a good diagram out there.

Magic Glimmer guide - SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions

For SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions on the PlayStation 4, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Magic Glimmer guide".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Magic is the weirdest part of the game. You put points into one spell at the end of each series of battles. However, you can't learn a skill unless your elemental stat is high enough, so it is really restricted especially early on.

WHICH spell you learn is complicated. It depends on what staff you are using. Each element has 4 spells.

STANDARD: You will learn the next spell of that spell class.
SPECIFIC SPELL TYPE: If you put points in a the lowest spell of one element, you will learn the spell of the same level in the specific element of the staff. Same for 2/3/4.
TRANSITORY: The lowest spell of some other element.
REVERSE: Putting points in the lowest spell of an element learns the 4th. 2nd teaches the 1st.

There's probably a good diagram out there.

Magic Glimmer guide - SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions

For SaGa Scarlet Grace: Ambitions on the PlayStation 4, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Magic Glimmer guide".

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

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Good lord is that unnecessarily confusing.

 

[Ra]

Bless this thread. I almost went another sales, forgetting to by Saga Scarlett Graces.

Can't wait to give it a try, I've been reading all of the tips in this thread.

I hope that you do try another character -- Urpina is a fantastic choice for a first run. Leonard is hilarious and truly wonderful, but the effect is kind of lost if it's your first because it's essentially like MST3king the game.

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I am definitely going to take this advice, thanks.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

I just got my shit absolutely kicked in by the phoenix encounter on the island in the southeast corner of the map. 😂

What a weird fight. They want me to force an enemy United Attack, but the only way to do that is to have my party members die. I did do it a couple of times and I saw what happened, but I guess it wasn't enough and I just game overed instead.

I'm gonna go explore somewhere else. 😅

 

[Zen Hero]

I just got my shit absolutely kicked in by the phoenix encounter on the island in the southeast corner of the map. 😂

What a weird fight. They want me to force an enemy United Attack, but the only way to do that is to have my party members die. I did do it a couple of times and I saw what happened, but I guess it wasn't enough and I just game overed instead.

I'm gonna go explore somewhere else. 😅

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You can also trigger enemy unite attacks by killing enemies that are surrounded by other enemies. Your party members don't have to die necessarily! I remember making that exact same mistake when I first encountered that fight, haha

 

[Deleted member 4090]

You can also trigger enemy unite attacks by killing enemies that are surrounded by other enemies. Your party members don't have to die necessarily! I remember making that exact same mistake when I first encountered that fight, haha

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And you can set up same-turn combos by using moves that delay enemy attacks (Martial "Thunder Kick" or Sword "Brusque Slice" are the two most prominent ones) since damage is dealt after the reposition, so you can face kick enemies straight into a combo, and Spear specializes in moving up or down the timeline themselves (nearly every single move has a +/- position modifier, unlike any other weapon type).

There's a lot of depth and what at first seems like a huge hurdle can come off as fairly easy once you understand a lot of the nuances.

The game has one of the better hard modes in an RPG, with the scaling increasing more rapidly, which really changes a lot of the dynamics of how the systems piece together. Really unique in terms of that you can't grind for most of the game, you can only learn more tactics and nuances to stay ahead of the curve increment by increment.

Good lord is that unnecessarily confusing.

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The spell system really should have had a diagram. It was even worse in the original Vita version, due to there not being as many staff types. There really need to be more staves, as there's not enough variety to often have a good one of the element that you wish, so trying to branch out into other elemental schools comes at a fairly significant cost.

Most of the "good" mages are just those that have a good selection of starting spells (see: Elysed or Kreisa).

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

One thing I wish this game had is the ability to lower the difficulty just a little. It's got this weird thing going on where I feel like I'm kind of scrambling to survive battles half the time, but not in a good way. It's been alleviated a bit as my party has learned more techniques and I've made better use of timeline positioning, but it's still there. Kind of hard to explain.

The enemies seem to scale a bit too, so I'm not sure grinding easy encounters would even do that much.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

One thing I wish this game had is the ability to lower the difficulty just a little. It's got this weird thing going on where I feel like I'm kind of scrambling to survive battles half the time, but not in a good way. It's been alleviated a bit as my party has learned more techniques and I've made better use of timeline positioning, but it's still there. Kind of hard to explain.

The enemies seem to scale a bit too, so I'm not sure grinding easy encounters would even do that much.

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There is a Weaker monsters difficulty setting. It reduces the rate at which stuff scales. That isn't quite as good as it sounds due to how much your advancement is tied to the enemy strength, but it is good if you're struggling.

 

[SpoonyGundam]

The enemies seem to scale a bit too, so I'm not sure grinding easy encounters would even do that much.

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Grinding the same encounter doesn't do much, for either you or the enemy. There's a hidden party level stat that determines enemy strength and what your soft HP and skill caps currently are (With characters below that cap raising both very rapidly to catch up), and the XP gain for party level is much lower if you repeat a fight. Repeating an Easy fight is worth 1/6 of the XP of a new Easy fight, so you can use those to try to catch some characters up or spark techs or get crafting materials without impacting party or enemy strength very much.

1) I strongly recommend against carrying over weapon ranks. Part of the thrill and depth of the game is playing around with new characters and discovering what works for different characters party compositions and recruit orders. The game remains consistently challenging and interesting across playthroughs, and the NG+ options that carry over raw power likely chip away at that.

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There isn't an option to carry over weapon ranks at all. You can transfer learned techs and invocations (Which the game recommends in the default NG+ settings) and tech/invocation ranks (Which is not recommended). Tech ranks are definitely good, but it's not like you're going to walk up to the final boss and one-shot him 5 minutes into Leonard's scenario because of them.

TBH, I don't really think it's a big problem if you do transfer tech ranks. You'll probably be wanting to use a different weapon for any characters you used in prior runs anyway, so you can learn and experiment with more advanced roles. And by the time you think you're ready to try the superbosses, you'll probably appreciate not having to grind key techs back up to rank 3. I definitely wished I had been transferring tech ranks when I was planning my party for the nutso ultimate final boss.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

How important is it to get all the scarlet shards on Leo's route before going under Azhuacan? The one where I have to prevent the guards from sounding the alarm is giving me trouble.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

How important is it to get all the scarlet shards on Leo's route before going under Azhuacan? The one where I have to prevent the guards from sounding the alarm is giving me trouble.

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Not at all important. Totally optional, but his variations of that quest tend to be more fleshed out than the equivalent for other mains.

What is your HP at?

You'll probably want some Cyclone Shoes...

 

[garion333]

All the money went to design, as it should :P

 

[Belthazar90]

I honestly don't get the praise this game receives, it was a very underwhelming experience. The first impression is quite poor due to the mobile-like presentation and the medíocre art (being generous here, and if it is outright bad), but then comes the battle system that is really good... The problem is that the battle system can't carry the game alone and it gets old very quickly. The story is okay, but the presentation doesn't do it and favors.

That battle system could've been used in a more well realized game, it felt like a waste.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

There isn't an option to carry over weapon ranks at all. You can transfer learned techs and invocations (Which the game recommends in the default NG+ settings) and tech/invocation ranks (Which is not recommended). Tech ranks are definitely good, but it's not like you're going to walk up to the final boss and one-shot him 5 minutes into Leonard's scenario because of them.

TBH, I don't really think it's a big problem if you do transfer tech ranks. You'll probably be wanting to use a different weapon for any characters you used in prior runs anyway, so you can learn and experiment with more advanced roles. And by the time you think you're ready to try the superbosses, you'll probably appreciate not having to grind key techs back up to rank 3. I definitely wished I had been transferring tech ranks when I was planning my party for the nutso ultimate final boss.

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Ah, I guess I had thought it was one of the ones that unlocks only after you've done all four quests. I know some of those carrying over raw power, but I forget exactly which.

IMO, by carrying over glimmered skills, you lose out on some of the really interesting differences between campaigns and even replaying campaigns. If skills carry over, then it all really emphasizes the characters that appear in multiple campaigns, or specifically appear early in the various campaigns. So then each of the playthroughs end up being more samey than they would otherwise be, with Ogniana, Elysed, and the 4 sidekicks reused over and over.

I guess that speaks to the overall depth and appeal of the game where on my 7th playthrough, only now am I trying to build up enough to be the 2nd round of Fiends and the super boss (maybe).

I honestly don't get the praise this game receives, it was a very underwhelming experience. The first impression is quite poor due to the mobile-like presentation and the medíocre art (being generous here, and if it is outright bad), but then comes the battle system that is really good... The problem is that the battle system can't carry the game alone and it gets old very quickly. The story is okay, but the presentation doesn't do it and favors.

That battle system could've been used in a more well realized game, it felt like a waste.

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If there were any other RPG out there that tried to do what this game did but with higher production values, I'd agree with you. But given the total lack of anything at all comparable, it sure seems like everything this game accomplished was made possible only by loosening the expectations for presentation, like the RPG equivalent of a Dwarf Fortress. There's not really any modern RPG franchise out there that is able of putting in multiple campaigns with different game structures and tons of quest variations between them, let alone also making some of those main campaigns themselves branching interesting ways.

SSG exists in its own little corner of gaming design space.

 

[Astral]

The music slaps hard

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This song has been stuck in my head for a day now. I had to play the game again after putting it down for months. I picked it back up surprisingly well. I just unlocked some short pink-haired girl with an axe with Urbina. The story is extremely uninteresting so far but I find myself barely caring because the combat is so good. Like, they're just throwing kingdoms and factions out there and I'm just like "ok sure."

Is it normal to be struggling in half the fights though? This is the first RPG where I'm not wrecking everything that's not a boss.

 

[Wilf Netherton]

This song has been stuck in my head for a day now. I had to play the game again after putting it down for months. I picked it back up surprisingly well. I just unlocked some short pink-haired girl with an axe with Urbina. The story is extremely uninteresting so far but I find myself barely caring because the combat is so good. Like, they're just throwing kingdoms and factions out there and I'm just like "ok sure."

Is it normal to be struggling in half the fights though? This is the first RPG where I'm not wrecking everything that's not a boss.

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Yeah, losing fights or burning through lives is pretty normal. Combat is fantastic though.

 

[MilkBeard]

It's funny seeing people say Scarlet Grace being obtuse and vague, when it's actually the most well-described and tutorialized game in the series, lol

I mean, the combat system is still fairly complex for newcomers. I guess I just found it fairly intuitive since I'm already used to the SaGa-ness, lol

I would say the art is pretty decent, I don't get the complaints, though the character art style can be a little generic. The music is pretty good, but it holds no candle to SaGa Frontier 1 or 2, imo. Just go back and listen to those tunes.

Still, I've enjoyed the game a lot so far, but I had to put it down for a while to do other things. It's going to be a game that I keep coming back to every once in a while. I can see myself starting a new scenario too. I recently beat the earth dragon worm thingy in Urpina's storyline after

Spoiler

I killed her brother before he got possessed

. Not sure how much is left. I started wandering other parts of the map and completing quests.

My fav. characters in my party right now are probably Princess Ogniana, because she's got a really mean axe swing, lmao, Khan, who's pretty dope with a spear, and Elysed because of the magic. I still don't have a full picture of how the magic system works (thanks for describing it earlier in the thread) but I've pretty much maxed her current spells with her staff at my character's current level ability.

 

[MilkBeard]

Is it normal to be struggling in half the fights though? This is the first RPG where I'm not wrecking everything that's not a boss.

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SaGa games are notoriously difficult. It's normal. Though I would say the difficulty curve in Urpina's scenario starts off fairly smooth, but after the point you're at, it starts getting a bit harder. I turned down the difficulty in the settings and it's still a decent challenge, ha ha

Though I find that with some battles, you will just need to retry them with different tactics and formations, as how you start out is really important, and what you're willing to sacrifice. The battle system is often like balancing on a tightrope in this way, it's interesting. Opening up new formations, especially ones that grant bonuses in certain situations, are going to be a lifesaver

 

[Astral]

SaGa games are notoriously difficult. It's normal. Though I would say the difficulty curve in Urpina's scenario starts off fairly smooth, but after the point you're at, it starts getting a bit harder. I turned down the difficulty in the settings and it's still a decent challenge, ha ha

Though I find that with some battles, you will just need to retry them with different tactics and formations, as how you start out is really important, and what you're willing to sacrifice. The battle system is often like balancing on a tightrope in this way, it's interesting. Opening up new formations, especially ones that grant bonuses in certain situations, are going to be a lifesaver

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I kinda hate that you can't see the enemy list or anything before a battle. I just unlocked a formation where I gain BP for every enemy killed, so it's good for battles with multiple enemies. But I don't know how many enemies are in a battle until I actually start it.

 

[Speedstersonic]

Dammit, this post got me urging to start my 2nd playthrough with a new character and im in the middle of like 5 games atm. Absolutely loved this game and spent about 60 hours or so on my 1st playthrough. I played Urpina 1st and loved it

 

[Speedstersonic]

Also for anyone playing or planning to play, this site is SUPER helpful at figuring out stuff or getting certain characters and whatnot. https://kamikouryaku.com/saga_sg/ Have to run it through translate on chrome but it helps immensely even if you have to work out some of the translations

 

[MilkBeard]

I kinda hate that you can't see the enemy list or anything before a battle. I just unlocked a formation where I gain BP for every enemy killed, so it's good for battles with multiple enemies. But I don't know how many enemies are in a battle until I actually start it.

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yeah, I think the basic battles show some stats, but most others don't. It would be helpful.

As for the formations, you will get some where you can unlock bonuses that occur in certain rounds under certain conditions, such as granting defense or speed or healing. Those are going to be pretty helpful. Look out for those. I don't remember how to unlock the bonuses, I think you just use them enough and they will unlock

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

I decided it was time to wrap up Leonard's quest and make a run at the final boss.

This final boss is an asshole. I don't know how I'm supposed to get anywhere when he moves first every turn, doing an unblockable AOE that usually stuns at least 80% of my party, if not the entire thing, and removes a third of their health in one hit.

It also takes like three rounds before he starts alternating between attacks and a move that doesn't kill me, by which point the party is almost dead anyway. And he's immune to ailments so even getting a lucky attempt through the wall of stuns does nothing.

I just want to finish this playthrough and get through to NG+ because I'm really here for all the weird events on the overworld, not for difficult battles. Debating just going straight to a guide for this fight.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

I decided it was time to wrap up Leonard's quest and make a run at the final boss.

This final boss is an asshole. I don't know how I'm supposed to get anywhere when he moves first every turn, doing an unblockable AOE that usually stuns at least 80% of my party, if not the entire thing, and removes a third of their health in one hit.

It also takes like three rounds before he starts alternating between attacks and a move that doesn't kill me, by which point the party is almost dead anyway. And he's immune to ailments so even getting a lucky attempt through the wall of stuns does nothing.

I just want to finish this playthrough and get through to NG+ because I'm really here for all the weird events on the overworld, not for difficult battles. Debating just going straight to a guide for this fight.

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The first phase of the final boss is really the major outlier in terms of difficulty (along with any fights against Sigfrey).

Spoiler: A bunch of different things to note for the final boss.

- Cyclone Shoes and +Mobility Roles for everyone.
- Adjust your turn order and use blocks so that somebody going down triggers a combo attack.
- Use the first turn or his "down" turns to lay on status ailments.
- Delay his turn with one of your faster people.
- Note that when you "retry" a battle, you are down 1LP on everybody but your combo attacks are increased in power.
- Spam the boss with your own stun moves.
- You can always just get stronger. Do Hard battles to both push yourself and advance the underlying "progression" of the game, get Rank 15 blacksmith stuff, learn Roles.

There's a ton to do, but it is really hard, even the "easy" version that wastes turns doing the +3BP move.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

The first phase of the final boss is really the major outlier in terms of difficulty (along with any fights against Sigfrey).

Spoiler: A bunch of different things to note for the final boss.

- Cyclone Shoes and +Mobility Roles for everyone.
- Adjust your turn order and use blocks so that somebody going down triggers a combo attack.
- Use the first turn or his "down" turns to lay on status ailments.
- Delay his turn with one of your faster people.
- Note that when you "retry" a battle, you are down 1LP on everybody but your combo attacks are increased in power.
- Spam the boss with your own stun moves.
- You can always just get stronger. Do Hard battles to both push yourself and advance the underlying "progression" of the game, get Rank 15 blacksmith stuff, learn Roles.

There's a ton to do, but it is really hard, even the "easy" version that wastes turns doing the +3BP move.

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My characters don't have an abundance of roles, so everyone just has every unlocked role equipped at once.

Where/how can I get Cyclone Shoes? I don't even understand where you get equipment in this game, really; it's not like you can buy it. You just upgrade what everyone already has. I guess there are those people you can trade with in some of the towns, but they only ever have like two options.

What status ailments can land?

I honestly might just have to grind. Sigh. My highest HPs are in the 700s but some of the characters I find more useful are around 500, and my highest weapon ranks are just above 30. Literally no one in my best party can move before him unless I use something like Quick Nock.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

My characters don't have an abundance of roles, so everyone just has every unlocked role equipped at once.

Where/how can I get Cyclone Shoes? I don't even understand where you get equipment in this game, really; it's not like you can buy it. You just upgrade what everyone already has. I guess there are those people you can trade with in some of the towns, but they only ever have like two options.

What status ailments can land?

I honestly might just have to grind. Sigh. My highest HPs are in the 700s but some of the characters I find more useful are around 500, and my highest weapon ranks are just above 30. Literally no one in my best party can move before him unless I use something like Quick Nock.

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Any of the low shoe accessories will be able to upgrade into Cyclone Shoes. Some go the way of Dance Shoes, or something? There's always room to get stronger, but being in the 30s is okay for the weakest version of the final boss. Equipment is mostly just via upgrades.

Other bits:

- The Free For All stance may be useful.
- The last boss can be hit by nearly status ailment, I think? Bosses don't really have "boss immunities" in this game.
- Remember, being inflicted by a status ailment increases the odds of future status ailments applying. That's what the "bonus" objective was hinting at-- hit somebody with poison and then stuff like Paralysis can land easier.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Any of the low shoe accessories will be able to upgrade into Cyclone Shoes. Some go the way of Dance Shoes, or something? There's always room to get stronger, but being in the 30s is okay for the weakest version of the final boss. Equipment is mostly just via upgrades.

Other bits:

- The Free For All stance may be useful.
- The last boss can be hit by nearly status ailment, I think? Bosses don't really have "boss immunities" in this game.
- Remember, being inflicted by a status ailment increases the odds of future status ailments applying. That's what the "bonus" objective was hinting at-- hit somebody with poison and then stuff like Paralysis can land easier.

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I happened to find a place to get cheap low level shoes and made a bunch of Cyclone Shoes. So I'll have to try with them next time.

I tried Sleep on him and he's actually immune to that one. I couldn't get Poison to land, so I had thought maybe he was immune, but I wasn't sure. All my poison attacks come with actual damage as well, so it never tells me whether something is immune to it or not.