LTTP: Kingdom Hearts - How odd. I'm enjoying an RPG

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Time between release of KH1 and 2 was 3 years and pretty impressively scaled for the time. KH3 was about 5 years since it was announced (and I know there was the whole switch to UE4, but modern tools should help with production timeliness), but it would've been nice to see that level of quality throughout more worlds. I think it starts strong with Olympus and especially Toy Story, but then the KH3 worlds imo gradually decline in quality/freshness.

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Tangled was perfection and Monsters Inc was also incredible. Frozen has been the only one with noticably worse quality all in all for me. Big Hero 6 currently it seems to mainly be a large open playground and that does work for me as it's something a bit different and it is fun to explore and play in.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

This just reminds of how criminal it was not having Elsa in your party. Don't know why they were that overly protective of Frozen. The Pixar people handled it best and allowed them to do whatever.

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Totally. I expected Elsa in my party 100%. I also expected to explore her fortress.

 

[Feign]

It's a basic retelling of Frozen and that's fine. It's not done as well as Tangled was in this regard though. Just like the movie in general amirite?

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Oh my god you went there. Fucking perfect. (Agreed, though. Frozen is so close to being unequivocally great that it actively frustrates me watching it.)

ANYWAY

I loved the Do You Want to Build a Snowman bit because adult Anna just starts talking over her flashback singing. It's so awkward.

 

[Antoo]

Arendelle is the best KH3 world.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Monsters, Inc was my least favorite Disney world in 3. It felt so bland and lifeless - just a ton of gray concrete corridors and construction sites.

 

[Aaron]

Fun fact about the Pixar worlds, the events in KH3 are considered canon to their movies. That doesn't have a lot of implications for Monsters, Inc. (since that movie never got a sequel), but the next time you watch Toy Story 3 or 4, just remember that in the back of the characters' minds they have memories of fighting an anime pretty boy and Buzz losing his heart to the darkness.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Alright I don't get any of this.

 

[Fj0823]

Alright I don't get any of this.

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I mean, you skipped 3 games worth of plot

Remember what I said, you went from Age of Ultron straight to Infinity War

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I mean, you skipped 3 games worth of plot

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I skipped more than that for Marvel and I still understood Endgame.

 

[Kinsei]

I skipped more than that for Marvel and I still understood Endgame.

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Marvel movies aren't really a continuous story outside of their respective series though. Skipping BbS and DDD is like skipping Infinity War and wondering why half the heroes are dead and who Thanos is.

 

[Fj0823]

Yep, theres too much references and call backs to COM, BBS,DDD, and even the fucking mobile games in III's finale.

It was a game made entirely as love letter to the whole franchise.

It drops the ball with some of it and lands a lot too.

But you absolutely had to follow the bullshit through and through to appreciate it lol

IV will no doubt continue from "Melody of Memory" (a fucking rythm game) rather than III too.

 

[Strings]

You're playing the 9th game after only 1 and 3 OP (granted, you only really need BBS and DDD outside of KH1 and 2).

 

[Kinsei]

Yep, theres too much references and call backs to COM, BBS,DDD, and even the fucking mobile games in III's finale.

It was a game made entirely as love letter to the whole franchise.

It drops the ball with some of it and lands a lot too.

But you absolutely had to follow the bullshit through and through to appreciate it lol

IV will no doubt continue from "Melody of Memory" (a fucking rythm game) rather than III too.

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To be fair the relevant plot set up for KH4 in Melody of Memory can be summed up in like one or two sentences. I imagine people that skip it won't be terribly lost.

 

[Ctrl Alt Del]

You're playing the 9th game after only 1 and 3 OP (granted, you only really need BBS and DDD outside of KH1 and 2).

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Sort of. Without playing CoM and 358/2, you'll go "who dis?" about half of Organization XIII and Xion.

 

[Fj0823]

To be fair the relevant plot set up for KH4 in Melody of Memory can be summed up in like one or two sentences. I imagine people that skip it won't be terribly lost.

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Fair. But you just know MOM is just one of many entries before IV

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

You basically know nothing if you only played KH1/2, most of the story happens in the other games.

 

[Fj0823]

You basically know nothing if you only played KH1/2, most of the story happens in the other games.

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[Turin]

Monsters, Inc was my least favorite Disney world in 3. It felt so bland and lifeless - just a ton of gray concrete corridors and construction sites.

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I didn't like that one either but I'd keep that over returning to Pirates, which I just hated the very presence of even if it was technically impressive.

 

[vixolus]

I didn't like that one either but I'd keep that over returning to Pirates, which I just hated the very presence of even if it was technically impressive.

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Yeah I just rolled my eyes at Pirates being included and found it to be such a slog gameplay wise. Crabs and ship sailing oh boy! That was the worst part in Sly 3 too imo.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I didn't like that one either but I'd keep that over returning to Pirates, which I just hated the very presence of even if it was technically impressive.

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I really liked Pirates in 3 but hope it's the last we see of the IP in the series for a good long while. The next pirate world should be Treasure Planet!

 

[Strings]

I really liked Pirates in 3 but hope it's the last we see of the IP in the series for a good long while. The next pirate world should be Treasure Planet!

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I'm still pretty sure Treasure Planet content was cut at some point during development. The treasure spheres are almost the same as the map in the film.

 

[Feign]

Yeah I just rolled my eyes at Pirates being included and found it to be such a slog gameplay wise. Crabs and ship sailing oh boy! That was the worst part in Sly 3 too imo.

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I didn't like Pirates on my first playthrough. It was my second when I returned to the world that sold me on it. The story path ignores almost all of what was created for that world, which is wild to me. Exploring the islands is a lot of fun.

 

[Chucat]

Alright I don't get any of this.

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Did you watch the summaries of the previous stories that were in 3?

I'm just curious how much it actually explained if you did the 'sensible and understandable' thing and just played 1, 2 and then 3 and using the resources that the game gives you.

You know, as opposed to buying 2 collections, playing 6 games and watching 5 hours of movies and then still being a bit confused because there's apparently a mobile game.

 

[Munti]

OP, because you're really just into the Disney stuff, and not into the original stuff or the game mechanics, it will not be worth for you to buy the DLC.
However in the DLC, there's an imo beautiful and powerful scene/section with one of the Disney characters. You might want to check that out on YouTube once you finished the main game.

 

[Jimnymebob]

OP are you at the finale or just the dumb monologues at the end of BH6?

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

OP are you at the finale or just the dumb monologues at the end of BH6?

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Still in Big Hero 6.

 

[Fj0823]

Imagine sitting down and explaining what is happening in the world of Big Hero Six regarding Riku lol

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I like the idea that Kingdom Hearts characters are just tweeting all the time. Some quality load screens.

 

[Aaron]

I like the idea that Kingdom Hearts characters are just tweeting all the time. Some quality load screens.

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These got dragged by some people but I thought they were charming, feel like the folks who had a problem with them need to pull the stick out their butt.

 

[Niosai]

Alright I don't get any of this.

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Don't worry, I got you covered. Here's what's going on:

So there was some darkness, right? They're trying to hit that darkness with this big key sword. Except sometimes the big key sword has darkness, too. Basically, it got out of hand.

I'm kidding. I can't imagine it'd be easy to follow having skipped so much. Hopefully you can pick it up, because once you hit the later stuff you're gonna be even more confused.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Arendelle is the best KH3 world.

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I'm up to the Pirates world currently and I have to say Tangled's world is my favorite.

I loved everything about this world from Rapunzel's interactions with the world to Corona Kingdom having a living, breathing city full of npcs. Plus the lantern scene was recreated beautifully and used as the perfect fight backdrop.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I'm up to the Pirates world currently and I have to agree with this so far.

I loved everything about this world from Rapunzel's interactions with the world to Corona Kingdom having a living, breathing city full of npcs. Plus the lantern scene was recreated beautifully and used as the perfect fight backdrop.

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Love this post. The only way anyone can think Frozen is better than Tangled is if they confuse the two.

Also can I just say that the emblems in San Fransokyo are really well hidden. I've barely found any.

 

[Aaron]

Love this post. The only way anyone can think Frozen is better than Tangled is if they confuse the two.

Also can I just say that the emblems in San Fransokyo are really well hidden. I've barely found any.

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Make sure to go back to the world after you've completed it! A lot of the KH3 worlds don't really add much after you complete the story there, but Big Hero 6 is a huge exception.

 

[abrack]

Arendelle is the best KH3 world.

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I'm up to the Pirates world currently and I have to agree with this so far.

I loved everything about this world from Rapunzel's interactions with the world to Corona Kingdom having a living, breathing city full of npcs. Plus the lantern scene was recreated beautifully and used as the perfect fight backdrop.

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Isn't Arendelle the Frozen world, not Tangled?

These got dragged by some people but I thought they were charming, feel like the folks who had a problem with them need to pull the stick out their butt.

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I like the idea. A little too many repeats, I think. And honestly I don't like the "3 half pints" / "Pint and a half" thing. They treat it like a long running saying or joke but I don't remember it ever being said outside KH3.

 

[Ovvv]

I like the idea. A little too many repeats, I think. And honestly I don't like the "3 half pints" / "Pint and a half" thing. They treat it like a long running saying or joke but I don't remember it ever being said outside KH3.

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Pretty sure Pete says this in KH2.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Isn't Arendelle the Frozen world, not Tangled?



I like the idea. A little too many repeats, I think. And honestly I don't like the "3 half pints" / "Pint and a half" thing. They treat it like a long running saying or joke but I don't remember it ever being said outside KH3.

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Whoops my bad. I was talking about Tangled.

 

[OneTrueJack]

Just dropping a quick update on my own progress through the series. I skipped CoM (watched a cutscene compilation) and am now probably about halfway through KH II. For context I've just gotten to Tron. A vastly improved game in my estimation. More satisfying combat, nicer presentation and better storylines for the Disney worlds.

Highlights for me so far would include:

• River of Time/Steamboat Willie
• Atlantica musical interludes
• Gummie Ship sections. What a rush! I even made my own custom ship this time around
• Hercules world actually having a storyline this time
• The set-piece moments, for lack of a better term. When the game gets all epic, in boss battler or otherwise. Wasn't expecting that from this series but I welcome it
• The minigames, especially those in the 100 Acre Woods. Such fun!
• I feel that between CoM and this game, Sora has a much more defined personality. They've given him more of a unique voice and it makes him more endearing as a protagonist.

In general, I've loved all the Disney Wolrds so far. Halloween Town and Agrobah weren't as good as the first game (but still fun), while everything else I'd say is a big step up. Including Pirates which is conceptually really cool, even if the ambition to strive for realistic graphics makes it the ugliest part of the game. I get what they were going for, and I'm sure back in the day it was cool, but it's aged badly.

My only real gripe is that while the combat is much more viscerally satisfying and a visual treat, it's much more shallow. In KH I felt like I had to use every tool in my arsenal to win. Here I've barely even touched the magic and summon systems and I'm blasting my way through enemy hordes. The drive forms are cool though.

I also wish they didn't cut down exploration this much, but I'm not getting confused on how to progress anymore so who am I to complain.

The KH side of the story is on the back burner, but I suspect like the first game it's being saved for the final third. For the record, I am following it along okay even if I recognise how convoluted it is. This is my type of crazy though, so I'm on board.

Also, I have some logistical questions about Nobodies, if any die-hard fan wants to humour me with an answer.

 

[Kain]

Also, I have some logistical questions about Nobodies, if any die-hard fan wants to humour me with an answer.

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Ask away lol

 

[abrack]

Pretty sure Pete says this in KH2.

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Even if he does I have no memory of this and I've played KH2 probably 4-5 times lol. It's just a super odd line no one ever talked about to pick out and be like "remember this iconic line? We're bringing it back, and saying it a lot this time!"

Obviously this is a minor complaint, I like KH3 a lot, it just felt so forced to me. "That's not a thing, stop trying to pretend like it is!"

 

[Linus815]

Just dropping a quick update on my own progress through the series. I skipped CoM (watched a cutscene compilation) and am now probably about halfway through KH II. For context I've just gotten to Tron. A vastly improved game in my estimation. More satisfying combat, nicer presentation and better storylines for the Disney worlds.

Highlights for me so far would include:

• River of Time/Steamboat Willie
• Atlantica musical interludes
• Gummie Ship sections. What a rush! I even made my own custom ship this time around
• Hercules world actually having a storyline this time
• The set-piece moments, for lack of a better term. When the game gets all epic, in boss battler or otherwise. Wasn't expecting that from this series but I welcome it
• The minigames, especially those in the 100 Acre Woods. Such fun!
• I feel that between CoM and this game, Sora has a much more defined personality. They've given him more of a unique voice and it makes him more endearing as a protagonist.

In general, I've loved all the Disney Wolrds so far. Halloween Town and Agrobah weren't as good as the first game (but still fun), while everything else I'd say is a big step up. Including Pirates which is conceptually really cool, even if the ambition to strive for realistic graphics makes it the ugliest part of the game. I get what they were going for, and I'm sure back in the day it was cool, but it's aged badly.

My only real gripe is that while the combat is much more viscerally satisfying and a visual treat, it's much more shallow. In KH I felt like I had to use every tool in my arsenal to win. Here I've barely even touched the magic and summon systems and I'm blasting my way through enemy hordes. The drive forms are cool though.

I also wish they didn't cut down exploration this much, but I'm not getting confused on how to progress anymore so who am I to complain.

The KH side of the story is on the back burner, but I suspect like the first game it's being saved for the final third. For the record, I am following it along okay even if I recognise how convoluted it is. This is my type of crazy though, so I'm on board.

Also, I have some logistical questions about Nobodies, if any die-hard fan wants to humour me with an answer.

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KH2's combat has incredible depth, far exceeding KH1's but unfortunately the game is also incredibly easy for most of it, only gets challenging towards the end and then it may actually just cause frustration because it starts expecting the player to utilize mechanics which were not at all needed up until to that point due to how far you can get by just button mashing.

The game feels so different on critical, it's crazy. Same applies to KH3.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Make sure to go back to the world after you've completed it! A lot of the KH3 worlds don't really add much after you complete the story there, but Big Hero 6 is a huge exception.

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Am I missing something? I already beat the world and still went back to it to explore some more. The only thing that unlocked is an obstacle course at night. Is there something else?

 

[Jimnymebob]

Am I missing something? I already beat the world and still went back to it to explore some more. The only thing that unlocked is an obstacle course at night. Is there something else?

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Yeah, I'm confused by that post too. There's nothing else other than the Flan challenge and the obstacles course. All you can do is change the time of day an explore, with some lucky emblems being exclusive to a certain time of day.

 

[Alox12]

Alright it's official now. Even after my last post I still gave it a decent go. But now I officially can't take this bullshit anymore. I'm done. Game finished. That's it. Time for my final thoughts on the game then tomorrow I move on to the next game. For the people asking, it was the guy with the gun.

Kingdom Hearts 2 was a massive let down from the first game. There's no getting around it. From the complete lack of exploration and discovery elements to the core game loop to the game structure. This is a very different game. It's a game that is purely linear and just combat rroom to combat room nothing else. That's a very different experience to what the first game offered.

Now, that itself isn't necessarily a deal breaker if I'm going to enjoy the core combat enough. I didn't. It was all round less enjoyable than the combat in the first game for me. It has lots more mechanics and systems. But that doesn't make for more fun gameplay. You may say it's deeper and it probably is, but I don't care. It was less fun to play. A lot of that you can simply put down to the lack of a dodge. You see, I never did learn how to effectively avoid attacks. Where was my avoid attacks mechanic? Probably buried in there somewhere but the game did not effectively teach me it and it just made me feel frustrated and at odds with the gameplay. So I learned to just always be aggressive and that was the effective but not satisfying way to play. Then of course when fights show up later where that doesn't work, I haven't learned what to do and that gets me where I am now.

The game added a bunch of flashy shit to the combat but it all just came across in a bad way for me. I never had the control I felt in the first game. The first games mechanics were basic but I liked that and the game remained fun and engaging throughout for the most part.

I felt in terms of game balance and difficulty balance the game just didn't get it right. The difficulty spikes late game were absurd, and apparently according to posts in this thread, reliant on you having levelled drive forms up in the right way. I just don't like it.

Pacing wasn't great. The game took an eternity to get going, and there were definitely times where the game felt like it was really dragging. The first game did go on a tad too long as well imo, but it was paced better than this and didn't have a really bad start like this game did.

I think the Disney world choices were good. Some incredible stuff in there. Pirates of the Caribbean is an ace world choice, and Tron took me completely by surprise. The black and white world had an amazing aesthetic. I think there were a lot of really well realised things in this game even in KH1 worlds. The Aladdin revisit was a game highlight for me, getting to sing Part of Your World put a big smile on your face and Hercules was done really well as a proper world this time.

The game certainly dampened the excitement I had for the franchise. I was really excited to dive in to the whole series after the first game but now I approach the rest with lowered expectations and reservation. I hope that KH2 is the outlier. That's all I can do. There were things I did enjoy. It wasn't awful. But yeah, this is where I'm at.

My gut tells me I should skip to KH3 but we'll see. I may give the others a go first. I'll sleep on it.

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Really well said, you nailed all the reasons why I think KH1 is a better game. I like KH2, but I don't think it's a very good sequel as it brings more downgrades than upgrades (that also plagued the series for a long time - and some still do).

 

[Chucat]

Yeah KH2 bugs me a whole lot and most of it is just down to one of the most important mechanics in the entire game, Revenge Values, being completely invisible. I don't even know if anyone explained it to you OP, but crossposting what I said in another thread about bossfights:

2 has revenge values. I understand the reason for revenge values, I've seen the video someone made that had some pithy name like "KH2 without revenge values" and they just infinite a boss or something. I have played more Devil May Cry than is healthy so I've played a game where when you hit a boss too much, they break out and attack you. The trick here is DMC actually has the boss break off and prep for an attack.

For example: Nelo has a slow invulnerable teleport which lets you know he's going to do something when he re-emerges, or he gets the glowy sword and starts blocking you. Phantom will start blocking and then possibly jump away. Griffon will force distance and start zoning you out (this could in all honesty have more of a tell for what attack he's gonna pull but it's minor).

In KH2, when the boss' revenge value is met (ie when you hit them enough), they retaliate. Which sounds reasonable. Except what you're basically doing is filling up the boss' limit break bar by hitting them, the bar is generally a fixed amount for every enemy/boss (except for when it isn't), and each of Sora's attacks fills it up for a different amount (For reference, this is the chart for Sora's attacks.), and when it fills up, they just instantly attack no matter what. This would be acceptable (since you could just disengage or play cautious when the bar is almost full), except the bar is invisible, so you have no way of knowing what's going on unless you find someone who already knows about it, or you repeatedly do the same thing and record the results like a science experiment.

I think what makes it so irritating is that you have bosses where this is a crucial mechanic because they'll teleport and wail on you or just flat out send you to the combo dimension but then you have the random Disney bosses where they're slow or immobile and their attacks are just...a burst of magic or something along those lines so you just sort of go "Oh they hit me" and heal up or something.

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Spoiler: KH2 stuff

But yeah you basically go from a really cool setpiece fight like MCP that's big and over the top and pretty simple and you're like "I'm teaming up with Tron to mess up Sark and this computer jerk!!!" to fighting Roxas and just going "What is this, what do I do, why does he keep hitting me.". I mean 1 also had this with Maleficient --> Riku to be honest, which I also disliked, but in 2 it felt even more drastic.

 

[OneTrueJack]

Ask away lol

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So Roxas is Sora's Nobody, and Naminé is Kairi's. The latter of which I think the game is saving as a twist despite it being very obvious. The game says that Nobodies are the bodies (and soul I guess) of people left behind when they become Heartless. How then does Roxas end up in Twilight Town? Shouldn't he have just been created in Hollow Bastion?

I also don't understand how Roxas and Naminé can be bodies left behind, when both Sora and Kairi clearly still have their bodies.

I googled around and the best answer I could find was basically "it works that way...because it works that way. So don't question it", lol.

 

[Aaron]

Am I missing something? I already beat the world and still went back to it to explore some more. The only thing that unlocked is an obstacle course at night. Is there something else?

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Yeah, I'm confused by that post too. There's nothing else other than the Flan challenge and the obstacles course. All you can do is change the time of day an explore, with some lucky emblems being exclusive to a certain time of day.

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Memory might be foggy, I just remember the city opening up a lot more for some reason. Oh well.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Memory might be foggy, I just remember the city opening up a lot more for some reason. Oh well.

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It opens up in the sense you don't have to follow a set path with the story and can free roam, but there's really nothing to do there lol

 

[MrConbon210]

So Roxas is Sora's Nobody, and Naminé is Kairi's. The latter of which I think the game is saving as a twist despite it being very obvious. The game says that Nobodies are the bodies (and soul I guess) of people left behind when they become Heartless. How then does Roxas end up in Twilight Town? Shouldn't he have just been created in Hollow Bastion?

I also don't understand how Roxas and Naminé can be bodies left behind, when both Sora and Kairi clearly still have their bodies.

I googled around and the best answer I could find was basically "it works that way...because it works that way. So don't question it", lol.

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Roxas appeared in Twilight Town because when you become a Nobody, your Nobody gets born somewhere in the Realm Between. There is no reason exactly as to why that happens, that's just simply what happens. Roxas was born in Twilight Town and Naminé was born in Castle Oblivion, because those worlds are in the Realm Between.

Kairi is a princess of Heart which gives her special abilities such as having her nobody exist at the same time. She has no darkness in her heart, so she can't form a Heartless. If her heart is lost, it doesn't become a Heartless. And therefore, she doesn't form a Nobody. In order for a Nobody to be created, a Heartless needs to be created. Instead, her body just lays comatose with no heart. Because her heart was in Sora she formed a nobody when it left.

Sora is basically a walking soul from Hollow Badtion up until Roxas reunites with him in KH2.

 

[Fj0823]

So Roxas is Sora's Nobody, and Naminé is Kairi's. The latter of which I think the game is saving as a twist despite it being very obvious. The game says that Nobodies are the bodies (and soul I guess) of people left behind when they become Heartless. How then does Roxas end up in Twilight Town? Shouldn't he have just been created in Hollow Bastion?

I also don't understand how Roxas and Naminé can be bodies left behind, when both Sora and Kairi clearly still have their bodies.

I googled around and the best answer I could find was basically "it works that way...because it works that way. So don't question it", lol.

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Both Roxas and Namine are technically Sora's nobody.

Namine is created by Kairis heart leaving Sora's Body. While Roxas is Sora's Heart leaving Sora's Body.

Sora turning into a heartless is a once in a lifetime event given how many factors were inside Sora at the moment.

Sora got a new body created by Kairi's princess magic. But some of his powers and memories were left in Roxas

Same from Namine and Kairi, Namine happens to have some of her memories.

Nobodies just pop into existence wherever, since your body kinda disappears once you turn into a heartless, that's why they appeared in Twilight Town and Castle Oblivion

Spoiler

It's all BS and I'm not even factoring Ventus into this lol, his heart is the reason why Roxas doesn't look 1:1 like Sora

 

[I Like Ginger Cats:3]

I thought I was understanding everything reasonably well yet the last few posts make it weird again for me :P