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Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,706
(I apologize for any typos. I'm dyslexic so if you see anything, I apologize.)

A few years ago, a friend of mine asked me if I wanted to play Bloodborne co-op with him. I said yes, but the only issue is, I didn't own Bloodborne. I downloaded the game, attempted to play it, but was incredibly frustrated by the difficulty. I eventually made it to Father Gascoigne, where he proceeded to routinely kick my ass to the point where I put the game down. It wasn't fun, it was just fucking hard.

Cut to today. I've now completed a long-desired goal of mine and have beaten every Soulsborne and their DLC, though the order I played them in was definitely unconventional (Bloodborne -> Dark Souls 3 -> Demon's Souls -> Dark Souls 1 -> Dark Souls 2). I've come to love this series, and it's changed the way I view gaming and difficulty. I wanted to use this thread to share my experiences of what going through each game was like, and then offer some thoughts on what I think each game's strengths and weaknesses are.

Why I love these games

As I said, my intro to the series was in an unconventional order, and for that reason, the way I approached the genre was probably not in the "right" way. My earliest issue with Bloodborne was with patience. I was deeply impatient and was used to, like I was in other action games, viewing each enemy as not a true challenge but instead just something to beat up before I got to the boss. I find there's something about most action games (not all) where there's little challenge in the hordes of enemies that you face, and each individual enemy doesn't really provide anything challenging to overcome -- they're just kinda there. It's just fodder before you get to the boss.

This is not the case in Soulsbornes. The thing I had to learn was that it was very likely I could die from every enemy. When I finally picked Bloodborne back up a year or so later, I realized I needed to think about the game as almost a hybrid rhythm game. The enemies would be in the same place every time. I knew where they'd be and I had to understand their cadence. If they make this animation, they're about to make this type of attack. You know how that works now because it's screwed you over a few times, so you have to dodge at exactly the right time. It becomes more intuitive the more you play. It almost feels like in Edge of Tomorrow when Tom Cruise's character effortlessly can get around potential hazards hundreds of times.

The best example I can think of with this was the Cathedral of the Deep in Dark Souls 3. I had gone into DS3 as a pyromancer (I hadn't realized that magic had been sort of nerfed in DS3, whoops) and was having a lot of issues with the Cathedral Grave Wardens. I know now exactly how my run would go -- I would run through a mob of zombies that didn't really attack, and then I'd have to face a Warden. I would start lobbing spells at her as soon as she ran towards me, and then try to dodge through her attacks in order to hit her with my sword. If I could beat her (I got better at it), I would have to run on a roof where these Hollow Slaves would drop down from above. But I could get them with my fireballs, and then heading down towards a path with more Hollow Slaves. And then, my nemesis, and area with TWO Grave Wardens together. I remember the absolute fear I would feel every time I saw them, trying to lure just one out at a time. I had to think of this as a rhythm game. I had to know the EXACT timing to dodge them.

And then I beat them. I was scared shitless. I needed to get to the next bonfire, but I had no real idea where I was going next or what I'd have to face. What if there were more Wardens? I remember checking EVERY corner with the camera. And then when I finally opened up a shortcut, I almost cried. It was this purse sense of accomplishment that I've never felt from a game before. This is when I learned to truly love the Soulsborne games.

DEMON'S SOULS
Build: Blueblood Sword Build
Favorite Level: Island's Edge
Least Favorite Level: Swamp of Sorrow
Favorite Boss: Old King Allant
Least Favorite Boss: Phalanx


I first played Demon's Souls when I got my PS5, and still haven't played the PS3 version. I played as a mild-dex/spell build, and used the Blueblood.

A note on the PS5 version: It's one of the most beautiful games I have ever played in my entire life. I was consistently stunned by the lighting and world design. A huge shout out to Bluepoint for their excellent visuals. And it plays so smoothly.

My view of Demon's Souls is that it's a wonderful proof of concept for what would come later. I realize that this is a beloved game by so many people, but there are definitely some weird systems within it that feel dated, and I'm not sure if it stood up to the highs of the series (though is much better than Dark Souls 2). The core components of the gameplay loop are very solid, but it felt like From was still trying to figure out what worked and what didn't. I still don't know how I feel about world tendency, and the lack of interconnected worlds is a huge bummer, especially coming off of Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3. But Demon's Souls is also wonderfully non-linear, and it was sort of fun to be able to attack the game in different ways.

There's a lot here that I feel like misses out on some of the wonderful word design of the later games. Only do places like the Island's Edge or the Boletarian Gates feel like you're in the complex, maze-like areas that Souls games became known for. And those were the levels where it felt like the game truly came alive. There were other areas like The Ritual Path where you felt that Souls-y rhythm to remember where each enemy was located and how to effectively get through the level, but it still lacked that "Oh man I'm back here" that makes some of the best Souls levels feel alive.

The other thing that was highly disappointing was the bosses. Outside of a few, like the Tower Knight or Storm KIng, they were mostly easy, forgettable, or both. This is easily the area that's the weakest compared to later games in the series, and the lack of DLC makes the adventure woefully short. Still, there's so much to love here, and you have to remember that it basically invented its own subgenre.

DARK SOULS
Build: Heavy Strength/Vitality
Favorite Level: Sen's Fortress
Least Favorite Level: Lost Izalith
Favorite Boss: Knight Artorias
Least Favorite Boss: Bed of Chaos


I am of two minds about Dark Souls: First, that the game is functionally perfect up until Ornstein and Smough. And two, I really wish the game could keep the energy it had within the first two-thirds into the last third.

The highs in this game are some of the best in the series, where it feels like a tabletop RPG come to life. I will never forget getting to Anor Londo the first time and being so wowed by it, even though I had seen ostensibly the same level in Dark Souls 3 earlier. There are so many incredible levels that challenge your patience, creativity, and yeah again, rhythm. Sen's Fortress is the stand-out. It's never unfair -- the mistakes that you make are yours and yours alone. Sen's was a wonderful challenge where you had to memorize every enemy location, every lightning thrower, every trap, to make it to that bonfire on the roof. That's what makes the game so good -- the challenge never feels unfair. The levels are intricately designed to test you until you're about to break, and then giving you a bonfire to shortcut at the exact right time. Even in the latter half of the game, The Duke's Archives proved to be a wonderful example of how take your players on a journey that requires patience and memorization. I didn't even hate Blighttown.

And then there's the last third of the game.

I say last third instead of last half because I really rushed through it. Places like the Crystal Cave were just lazy. Levels like Lost Izalith and the Tomb of the Giants were poor concepts with even worse execution. It's actually shocking how much of a turn the latter part of the game takes, and it soured the whole experience. But it's hard to sour on the entire experience, and the entire package of the game is one of my favorite action RPGs ever. But then the DLC was a great cherry on top -- the DLC is short but wonderful. Yes, it reuses the woods, but Oolacile Township was fantastic and the area has my absolute favorite boss in the series, Knight Artorias.

DARK SOULS 2
Build: Dex
Favorite Level: Brume Tower
Least Favorite Level: Brighstone Cove Tseldora
Favorite Boss: Fume Knight
Least Favorite Boss: Royal Knight Vanguard


I put off playing Dark Souls 2 until the very end of my Souls run. Everything I heard about the game was that it was the black sheep of the series, and that it didn't hold up to the rest.

And yeah, that's right.

It's not surprising considering what happened during development, but there are SO MANY weird choices in the game. The Adaptability stat has to be upgraded no matter what to make the game feel like a Dark Souls. There are many levels and bosses, but so few of them stand out. And the bad levels are bad, where the enemy placement feels cheap. Something that was shocking was levels like Brightstone Cove Tseldora, which didn't feel like there was any cohesive design decision about what the level was supposed to be. It's a spider-laden sand pit thing with then some crystals but also you have to keep using your homeward bone to actually explore the level? And then you have Black Gulch, which is stupid. There were also some weird mechanics that just didn't work -- see, Pharos Lockstones and the Branch of Yore. And the lighting system was weird, and it required you to use it to get through areas like No Man's Warf. There are also so many bosses, but so few of them stand out, and most of them feel like filler without any real challenge. Or, if there is a challenge, they're unbelievably cheap.

The permanent loss of enemies was also frustrating and almost felt like a concession that the level design wasn't very well thought out. Instead of forcing the player to memorize the level, the game seemed to realize that much of the enemy placement was stupid and gave the player an "out" by permanently defeating enemies, but this just made the hardest levels feel hollow (ha) and soulless (haha).

The being said, there were some cool ideas in here. I like the flashback memories a lot and helped flesh out the world. The story itself was pretty neat and didn't feel as chained to the DS1 lore. I also appreciated the weapon design, and had a lot of fun switching between different weapons with my Dex build. It felt like I had a lot of options depending on what the challenge was.

BUT. The good news is that this entire weird game is worth it for the absolutely fantastic DLC (no we're not talking about the Frigid Outskirts, that doesn't exist, you made that up). Brume Tower is one of my top 5 favorite Souls areas, but every area in the DLC besides the Frigid Outskirts hit the same way the best Souls levels did. Yes, they were still chained to some of the worst design decisions of the game, but these were some of my absolute favorite Souls levels ever. The verticality of Brume plus the way the shortcut system worked within the tower was beautiful, and the Fume Knight is one of the best boss fights in the series.

BLOODBORNE
Build: Arcane/Strength
Favorite Level: Cainhurst Castle
Least Favorite Level: Forbidden Woods
Favorite Boss: Ludwig
Least Favorite Boss: None?/Some Chalice Dungeon bosses I forgot


This is the epitome of everything I love about Souls.

Incredible level design? Check. Versatile weapons? Check. Satisfying enemies and placement? Check. Amazing art? Check. Incredible story/lore? Check check check.

There's very little I don't think works about Bloodborne. It's one of my favorite games of all time. The muscle memory I have of every level could probably get me through most of it right now even though it's been a while since my last run-through. The lore and world of Bloodborne is incredible -- it's this bizarre Lovecraftian horror that hits all the right spots thematically and in its execution. While Dark Souls and Demon's story never quite grabbed me, I've watched countless videos on the Bloodborne lore, and I need more. There's so much here, that even something as simple as the Chalice Dungeons feels like I'm learning so much every time I do them.

The battle system's decision to give you health back if you can attack with speed is probably the best decision yet in a From game. It creates a risk/reward incentive. Instead of rolling, hiding, estus, attacking, you're encouraged to take a risk -- but if you're not careful, or your timing isn't perfect, you will die. You have, to be smart, not greedy. And while there are fewer weapons, the trick weapons add an entirely new dimension to the game that makes every playthrough feel like something entirely unique. I've started with the cleaver and the cane -- both times felt as if I was learning two entirely different games.

Everything about the game requires you to be smart. Don't assume. Look around corners. And if you misjudge an enemy or location, you have no one else but yourself to blame. It rewards patience, it rewards having a plan. Knowing exactly how you're going to attack every area.

And the DLC! Yes, the Hunter's Nightmare was a bit of a re-working of parts of Yharnam, but the other two levels were incredible journies that added so much to the lore with some truly transcendent boss fights. Ludwig!!! Maria!!! Orphan of Kos!!! Some of the best boss fights in the entire SERIES. Ugh, I want to go back and replay it.

DARK SOULS 3
Build: Pyromancer
Favorite Level: The Ringed City
Least Favorite Level: Farron Keep
Favorite Boss: Champion Gundyr
Least Favorite Boss: Nameless King


As we close out the Dark Souls trilogy, I can't help but love Dark Souls 3. There are some easy knocks against it: It definitely is way too much of a retread of Dark Souls, and it's the most linear game in the entire Soulsborne series.

A quick note about Dark Souls 3: I played the game almost entirely in co-op the first time I went through it, which was so much fun, but also feels like a different game than playing solo. I was losing out on the need to patiently observe, and we could kind of barrel through the game a bit more than you could on your own. I need to properly play the game on my own -- I also think being a pyromancer hurt me because of the estus flasks in the game, and I want to replay the game with a Dex build.

But each area is a sprawling journey that is smart -- the way that each level weaves together is a masterclass in knowing when to give the player a sense of relief. Of all of the Dark Souls games, Dark Souls 3 felt like the biggest puzzle. Very much, what is the right weapon I need? What is the right spell? What am I doing wrong that I need to change for the next time? While it never hits the highs of Bloodborne, as its own thing, it does a great job taking what works from Dark Souls (and to a lesser extent, Dark Souls 2) and perfecting the formula. Yes, it's not reinventing the wheel, but why would it need to?

Another plus for the game is the Ringed City DLC -- The Painted World is cool, but The Dreg Heap/The Ringed City were two of my favorite levels in the entire game. The Ringed City itself was rather horrifying but in the best way, and felt like the perfect coda to the series. The giant enemies that could summon archers required you to perfect your timing, and the huge faceless swordsmen that you could chop off half their life with an attack from above required patience and strategy.

Which is the best?

Each game has its own strengths and weaknesses. It's hard to rank them, outside of the best and worst. Bloodborne is my favorite and Dark Souls 2 is my least favorite. These are pretty conventional rankings, and I'll get into each game in a second, but I can go back and forth on each of the rest.

I think I would rank them Bloodborne > Dark Souls 3 > Dark Souls 1 > Demon's Souls > Dark Souls 2, but I go back and forth about DS3 and DS1. It depends on my mood!

Conclusion

No series has taught me more about patience and rewarded me in the way that the Soulsborne games have. I don't think I'm gonna play Sekiro (parry mechanics are actively not for me), but I cannot wait for Elden Ring. If you've ever thought about getting the games but worried they're too hard, I say dive in: The rewards you get from completing them are a better high than 90% of the experiences I've had gaming.

And thank you Miyazaki for your incredible brain and for reminding me how rewarding gaming can be.
 
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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,978
And then you have Black Gulch, which is stupid.


200.gif


Perfect response.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,108
That was a good read. We share the same favorite bosses in DaS, DS3 and BB :)

Though I'm curious to know why you put the Forbidden Woods as your least favorite area in BB and Nameless King as your least favorite boss in DS3, since those were really high points for me.
 

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,238
I don't think I'm gonna play Sekiro (parry mechanics are actively not for me)
I have a thing with the Souls games. I played them in the absolute worst way to prepare me for the next From Software series.

FOR EXAMPLE. I never, ever, tried a pure dodge build in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. I really like the stamina management in a shield build! Made Bloodborne VERY tough at the start. And prior to Sekiro, I never ever parried. I didn't like the long wind-up animation and I hated how some attacks couldn't be parried. Made Sekiro difficult, obviously.

But I think Sekiro's worth a try even if you don't like the parry mechanics in the other Souls games. It's far easier to actually land a parry and there's always a visual indicator when an enemy uses an attack that can't be parried. The fun parry system + the basic stealth mechanics + the verticality in the level design makes Sekiro a great game in the end. I really love it.

The real dealbreaker with Sekiro is the rigid character build. You gotta play it the way From says you'll play it. If you're hoping for Souls-style build tweaking, you're out of luck.
 
OP
OP
Kaitos

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,706
That was a good read. We share the same favorite bosses in DaS, DS3 and BB :)

Though I'm curious to know why you put the Forbidden Woods as your least favorite area in BB and Nameless King as your least favorite boss in DS3, since those were really high points for me.

Forbidden Woods - I hate snakes lol. There aren't any real bad areas in Bloodborne.

Nameless King - Mainly for the Wyvern fight. One of the few times where I've been extremely frustrated by the camera in a Souls game, which is rare. The second half is great, but the first half I actively hate.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,108
Forbidden Woods - I hate snakes lol. There aren't any real bad areas in Bloodborne.

Nameless King - Mainly for the Wyvern fight. One of the few times where I've been extremely frustrated by the camera in a Souls game, which is rare. The second half is great, but the first half I actively hate.

Ok that explains it lol

And yeah the camera sucks in that first part.
 
OP
OP
Kaitos

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,706
But I think Sekiro's worth a try even if you don't like the parry mechanics in the other Souls games. It's far easier to actually land a parry and there's always a visual indicator when an enemy uses an attack that can't be parried. The fun parry system + the basic stealth mechanics + the verticality in the level design makes Sekiro a great game in the end. I really love it.
I actually got up to the boar/pig fight when it first came out and it still wasn't clicking for me. But maybe I should retry it, but I worry I won't remember the game very well.
 

the-pi-guy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,274
So far I've played Bloodborne several times through, a good chunk through Demons Souls and Dark Souls 1.

Bloodborne is one of my favorite games ever. The combat loop is so satisfying. Quick healing, great dodging mechanics, healing from attacking, fast gameplay, it all works together so well.

I've been having a hard time getting into Dark Souls.

Bought Demon's Souls recently, and it's very incredible.
 

Cess007

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,105
B.C., Mexico
lol at the Forbidden Forest being your least favorite area in BB.

It's an awful place that I just love. Also, leads at one of the greatest battle: Fighting 3 guys at the same time felt like some kind of anime shit in which you attack, heal, dodge and parry just to survive.
 

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,238
I actually got up to the boar/pig fight when it first came out and it still wasn't clicking for me. But maybe I should retry it, but I worry I won't remember the game very well.
I'd restart. That's still pretty early and honestly the boar isn't a great fight. It's kind of glitchy and hard to read, especially if you're not comfortable with the game. Would probably be frustrating if it's the first thing you tried.
 
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OP
Kaitos

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
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Oct 25, 2017
14,706
lol at the Forbidden Forest being your least favorite area in BB.

It's an awful place that I just love. Also, leads at one of the greatest battle: Fighting 3 guys at the same time felt like some kind of anime shit in which you attack, heal, dodge and parry just to survive.
I mean there are fun parts of it. It's so hard and I think I did it so many times that I could a map with enemy placement from memory alone right now. So going back feels very fun now because I've got it down to a science. And the destroyed huts area was well done.
 

Negatorous

Member
Jul 14, 2018
1,255
Great OP post. I am playing Bloodborne for the 2nd time. I beat it once before but haven't dived back in because I always dreaded fighting Father G as for me he was the hardest boss lol. I got lucky to get past him the first time. This time I did a bit of farming and I wasted him in no time at all. It's amazing how much better you can get even if you're terrible with this type of game like I am. But I've managed to beat Demon Souls, Dark Souls Remastered, Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3. I can't get into Sekiro, I just don't like the constant blocking with your sword. I love parrying with the gun in BB or my shield in the DS games.
 

Deleted member 11008

User requested account closure
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,627
I have been playing Souls since 2017, starting with Demon's Souls. Lately I'm playing DS 2 and DS 3 (and Sekiro, too), and finished Demon's Souls remake some weeks ago. I'm surprised not being burned out with those games lol
 

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,115
Tennessee
Great write up OP.
I am you from when you first tried and failed, and been stuck there for years. I tried to "get" Dark Souls abs Bloodborne - I love the atmosphere and layouts and everything really but I just haven't been able to get it to click no matter how much I've tried.

Maybe I'll give Bloodborne another attempt soon. I really love everything about it from what I've played, but I am so bad at it lol.
 

tjlee2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,741
One benefit of playing the games in release order is that it's very apparent that From is very good about learning from previous games and making big improvements in at least one area in their next game. That was true even in DS2, where they took a few steps back in some key areas.

For Sekiro, if you don't play NG+ where you can turn on hard mode, you honestly don't need to be competent at parrying to beat the game. The tools can break the game open for you, and if you want can just use the umbrella to make the timing easier. If you end up getting Elden Ring, I think playing Sekiro would be good because From is really good at learning from their past games, and I bet they learned a lot from Sekiro for their humanoid boss design philosophy, which was lacking in a few areas even in BB and DS3. I'm expecting some pretty interesting ideas to be applied to their humanoid bosses in Elden Ring.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
If you're looking to play how wyou want to play, I'd recommend Nioh (and especially Nioh 2) before Sekiro, fwiw.
 

John Harker

Knows things...
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,357
Santa Destroy
You can't say you've played them all till you've finished all the kings fields games!

the earlier ones are hard so I'll give you a pass if you just report back on your journey if The Ancient Kingdom ;)
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,994
I would give Sekiro a spin anyway. I am also very much not a parry person in 90% of the games I play, but Sekiro makes it pretty manageable. It is, however, not a remotely easy game. It was definitely my most difficult From experience to date and think it scrapes the barrier at some points where it may be too difficult.
 

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
Great thread! I adored Sekiro but the Souls games all look very slow and cumbersome in comparison. I still kinda wanna play Bloodborne though. I was hoping on a sale for Days of Play but alas - maybe Black Friday!

Also, play Hollow Knight!
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,338
Good read, op. I want to try this but hated Sekiro. Figured I'd start with demons souls. Any tips?
 

AIan

Member
Oct 20, 2019
4,859
My first game was Bloodborne too. The game opened my eyes to the world of Soulsborne and FROM games. It's in my top 3 games of all time.
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,994
Good read, op. I want to try this but hated Sekiro. Figured I'd start with demons souls. Any tips?
Dark Souls was my first modern From game. I think it was a great place to start in hindsight because the bonfire and estus flask systems present in that series are friendlier than what pre-dated them in Demon's Souls (which has neither). So I would definitely recommend starting with Dark Souls if you're amenable. In any case, these games tend to drill into you how to play them. Once you grasp the basics, you'll probably be able to manage any Souls or Soulslike out there.
 
OP
OP
Kaitos

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,706
Good read, op. I want to try this but hated Sekiro. Figured I'd start with demons souls. Any tips?
Think of every time you come upon enemies as an opportunity to learn something. Whether it's an enemy location or how an enemies attacks. Anything you learn about the level and where enemies are helps you for your next run.
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,994
Think of every time you come upon enemies as an opportunity to learn something. Whether it's an enemy location or how an enemies attacks. Anything you learn about the level and where enemies are helps you for your next run.
To this day I'm still salty about those skeletons in Tomb of the Giants that kick you off the staircase. 😂
 

JoJo'sDentCo

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,537
I loved Souls and hated Sekiro. Then I actually took the time to learn the mechanics in Sekiro. Now I believe Sekiro stands with the greats (like Bloodborne and DS1).

As a matter of fact, I'll even say Sekiro has better combat than all the Souls games including Bloodborne.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,218
I started playing through these when the DeS remake launched on PS5. I've since earned the platinum trophy on all of them. Bloodborne was stupid quick, 2 weeks basically. I'm unsure how many hours played.

I'm trying to get into Sekiro but rough going so far. I may not stick with it.
 

shinespark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
728
Glad you enjoyed the series! To my mind it's easily one of the greatest sequential strings of games ever made (even if DS2 is kinda naff).

Definitely also consider checking out King's Field 4 if you're looking for more of that Souls-y sense of interconnected world design. The combat is admittedly pretty basic, but I personally think it's even better than DS1 at rewarding exploration and folding levels back in upon themselves in clever and unexpected ways.

I don't think I'm gonna play Sekiro (parry mechanics are actively not for me)

I'm not a big parry player either, but if you can consistently dodge attacks in Bloodborne you can handle Sekiro's parry. It's nerve-wracking to use but is actually invincible for quite a bit longer than are Bloodborne dodges, at 30 frames vs. 22.
 

JoJo'sDentCo

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,537
I started playing through these when the DeS remake launched on PS5. I've since earned the platinum trophy on all of them. Bloodborne was stupid quick, 2 weeks basically. I'm unsure how many hours played.

I'm trying to get into Sekiro but rough going so far. I may not stick with it.
Watch the enemies and not yourself. Then parry every attack. It's the most satisfying thing once you learn the cadence.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,388
I find it interesting you came to think of it as a hybrid rhythm game and that is how you adapted. I had the same issue where I treated it like other action games and got stomped and frustrated.

However, my epiphany was coming at it like a fighting game where every enemy was another fighter that I had to learn the moveset for and how to defend/evade against and punish. Now I've beaten Bloodborne twice, Demons Souls remake twice, currently on my 4th Dark Souls 3 run and got 3/4ths of the way through Dark Souls on the 360 before putting it down to eventually start the remaster. I'll get to DS2 sometime before Elden Ring hits.
 

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,070
UK
Nice right up. I was with you when the series clicked with you when you realised any enemy was a potential death, even the lowliest hollow and how that's different to most action games that treat grunts like fodder on the way to the boss. I played the games as they were released, from PS3 Demon's onwards, so my rose-tinted memories of the first 2 games will probably never be dethroned, but I agreed with most of your review of the series.

I've softened a bit on DS2 recently, everything that's wrong with it still really make it the worst in the series, but in doing its own thing sometimes it at least makes up for its shortcomings in other ways, and I think I actually enjoy playing it more than DS3.

I would still give Sekiro a try - The gameplay loop feels really nice, and although parrying isn't the same as dodging, it still feels built on the same fundamentals as Soulsborne to me - Bosses have actions that you memorize in the same way as Souls and the lack of a stamina bar really changes things up, the bosses feel like Souls but more intense and time-condensed, but it's still the same thing where you see the animation of an attack and react to it just like Souls. I certainly had a period of adjustment though where I had to really force myself to stop jumping to dodge attacks and just stand there and press parry instead. The connected level design and exploration is still there and similar to DS3 and BB, some of the areas are really gorgeous too, their best art direction so far, I'm so excited for Elden Ring in this regard! :)
 

cdudeachyut

Member
Jun 4, 2021
1,569
I'd definitely recommend Sekiro too. The parrying isn't like Soulsborne and extremely fun when it clicks.
 

Bearwolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
477
As someone who beat sekiro and it never clicking, if you don't like the parrying mechanics don't torture yourself because that's 90percent of the game. I'd say play until the first true boss and if you're still not into it, drop it.
 

ioriyagami

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,365
I think Sekiro is the culmination of the philosophy behind Miyazaki's approach to fair combat and difficulty. Almost no upgrades, no min-maxing stats for OP builds, no equipment that can make the experience uneven between players. Just the player and their skills. In my opinion it has the best combat of all From games by far (disclaimer: finished it, including optional boss. I've also played all souls/borne games)

But man, these games are exhausting. I think I enjoy them, but I can't say I love them. Each time I finish them I feel more relief because the ordeal is finally over than accomplishment. I feel more abused than entertained, and the amount of time I dedicate to them is mostly spent repeating small sections over and over again or crawling through each level because I was being extra careful... The amount of stress they generate can't really be good for my health either...
 

Grahf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,664
Always good to see someone join the cult.

Now you're ready for some real shit :
 
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CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,616
I'm one of those weirdos that loves Dark Souls 2. Yes, it's got a bunch of weird stuff that just doesn't work or isn't really that much fun (as you mentioned, Pharos Lockstones and Branches of Yore are just... whatever), but I think it's a fascinating game that does some incredibly interesting things with its story and gameplay that make it feel like Dark Souls, but at the same time clearly make it something else instead of just doing the same stuff as the first game.

It doesn't always work, but it's a flawed gem for me and I think I like it almost as much as Dark Souls 3.