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Big_Erk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,359
Chief's Kingdom
Amazing game with spectacular art and sound design.

Unfortunately, falls into that "Persona 5 trap" of just being too long for its own good. Also, there were way too many instances of fighting for 3-4 minutes to get back to a boss only to die in five seconds and not really get a chance to "improve."

Excellent game, but I'm really hopeful Team Cherry re-evaluates some of their design and doesn't just make "more of the same" in Silksong.
I agree with all of your points. I loved the game. But I also found the map to be overly obtuse. This is something I've seen in a few other games as well. I want to be able to pull up a map of the area I'm in, look at it for a couple of seconds, and know exactly where I am and where I need to go.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,400


More seriously, I think it's just a genre of storytelling (Beautiful sadness? Elegy? I'm going with elegy) that may reasonate most strongly for you with your experiences with Dark Souls. But it's a very popular genre! Hell, that's what large portions of the LoTR films are for example, and they are far more popular than souls games. Watch them again and take a drink every time they show something from an ancient long forgotten civilization, or discuss some civilization is effectively dying (elves leaving, Ents lost their wives, Moria being fucked, the whole steward thing etc)


The similarities go deeper than broad themes. The dead kingdom you are exploring was overcome by a type of disease that caused the citizens to lose their minds (or go "hollow"). You get to see a wave of this disease progress and twist the world as you make progress through the game. You discover that
a previous hero sealed themself away to temporarily stop the spread of the disease. You defeat several lords of the fallen kingdom to break the seal blocking the path to where the prior hero rests. You unseal this prior hero, find that they have gone mad, and must fight them. After defeating the old hero, one of the possible endings is that you take the prior hero's place as sacrifice, temporarily sealing away the disease until some future hero arrives to take your place.

I understand there are archetypes in literature, and that if you search throughout history, you can always find similarities with past works. However, the similarities here go beyond a simple archetype. Moreover, the Dark Souls games were arguably the most influential and heavily discussed (for some, to the point of exhaustion) of the past decade when the game came out.
 

Funkybee

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,240
I stopped playing the game 1 hour in.
Having to re-do a whole section of 10-15 minutes after dying is just not for me and the time i get to play games.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,246
I absolutely loved it.

The pivot they did towards ultra-difficult content for the DLC, however, was kind of a turn-off for me. The game always felt fair and I loved the challenge of exploring and checking out new areas. The whole boss arena / die and start from boss 1 gauntlet thing just didn't appeal to me. I feel that they listened too much to the hardcore players and that community and kind of lost what made the game magical to begin with.
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,734
Montreal
I had the same impressions at first, then the game just went on too long and your offensive abilities just don't change much. Still an amazing game
 

GenTask

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,663
I liked it. I wasn't good enough to get the 3rd ending however.

What I did not enjoy was the absurd spike in difficulty that must be achieved to unlock that ending; the chain of events that leads to unlocking the sort of 'true' ending hidden behind extreme and frustrating difficulty unlike anything else in the rest of the game.

That's fine though, I 'beat' the game regardless.
 

Crumrin

Banned
Feb 27, 2020
2,270
I was very close to dropping the game for the first 3 hours because it made me feel completely miserable and overwhelmed, but then it clicked and I couldn't put it down for months on end, eventually becoming one of my favorite games ever. A true masterpiece, but certainly not a game for everyone.
 
Feb 21, 2022
2,026
It's one of my favorite games of all time. I love the huge amount of content, and hope Silksong has just as much. Which is why I'm fine that it's taking a while to come out.
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,434
NY
I just finished the game after years of stopping at about 10 hours. The end is a chore which is unfortunate because the story is actually interesting. It's just that by the time I slog over to where the interesting stuff is I just feel spent.

I love and respect Hollow Knight as an important part of the genre but to be honest I had more fun with Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom which I finally got to about a month ago.
 

Otakunofuji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,129
Of all of the 2D platformer and / or Metroidvania type games that have existed, I like probably less than 1% of them. Hollow Knight is not one of them. Don't like the art and the combat loop never clicked for me.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,755
The length of the game and the overall pacing/area design kind of pushed me away from the experience, and the movement didn't get interesting fast enough for me to get me hooked. The art direction, while technically charming, was also aesthetically dull for me and did little to significantly separate the feel of its many areas. I think it's extremely impressive that this game was made by less than a handful of people, but on the whole this was sadly one of those games where less would've been more for my tastes. I think the only thing the game is really "best" at is at the amount of content that's in there, and it means very little for me if I can't get engaged with how it's framed.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,728
Like a lot of Metroidvanias, the first chunk of hours were probably the slowest/weakest for me since it's during that time where you don't have the tools you need to make traversal/access as fun and optimal as possible. But then when things started falling into place, man, I was hooked. Took me 35 hours to basically 100% it. Felt about right to me given the expansive and more deliberately paced nature of the game.

Finished my GOTY list in second place, just after BOTW. What a year 2017 was, my goodness.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,148


More seriously, I think it's just a genre of storytelling (Beautiful sadness? Elegy? I'm going with elegy) that may reasonate most strongly for you with your experiences with Dark Souls. But it's a very popular genre! Hell, that's what large portions of the LoTR films are for example, and they are far more popular than souls games. Watch them again and take a drink every time they show something from an ancient long forgotten civilization, or discuss some civilization is effectively dying (elves leaving, Ents lost their wives, Moria being fucked, the whole steward thing etc)

Hollow Knight also has several story beats and concepts that are uniquely from Dark Souls 1, including an abyss equivalent and the entire game being built around being "tricked" into "linking the flame". It's not just that both games are about exploring a ruined civilization.
 

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
yeah it's the best in it's genre for me. It was so nice to see a throwback genre actually move the goalpost forward from the decades old classics we've come to worship and love. For me it was that moment of finally dragging the 2D metroidvania genre forward.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Hollow Knight also has several story beats and concepts that are uniquely from Dark Souls 1, including an abyss equivalent and the entire game being built around being "tricked" into "linking the flame". It's not just that both games are about exploring a ruined civilization.

No, the story is quite drastically different. Where's the supposed Soul's equivalent for "wyrm-god-turned-bug-king attempting to seal away a spurned-moth-god that's infecting their kingdom by birthing countless children in search of the perfectly empty vessel"? Claiming that's a straight rip-off fits that Baby Boss meme to a T. "But the game features an abyss, too!" 🙄
 

theMrCravens

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,309
Excellent game and challenging from start to finish, but they need to remove bloat of empty areas.
It's really padded with long pointless corridors and empty rooms.

La-Mulana does an excellent job of giving each room a different visual feel, and also with puzzles/objects you can interact (like tablets).
 

Luckett_X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,406
Leeds, UK
Yeah I adore it. One of my favourite games ever, really. As someone who loves that genre, I consider it to be the pinnacle pretty much.

Yes, it's at least one class above any other 2d Metroidvania I've played. The moment to moment gameplay is what truly stand out for me, it's just so well designed. It might have the best collection of bosses on any game ever.

Easily the best Metroidvania I've ever played and fits right in my all time top 5.

One of the best games ever made. Glad you're enjoying it OP!

I played it last year for the first time, and yea it's probably my favorite metroidvania ever. The world design is excellent, the difficulty ramps up pretty nicely and the late game bosses are fantastic.

it is the greatest metroidvania game.

It's one of the best games ever made, yeah.

I think hollow knight is the best metroidvania ever made and in some aspects it's even better than dark souls series. It's an absolute masterpiece and a very underrated game. 87 on meta is very low for this game.

yeah it's the best in it's genre for me. It was so nice to see a throwback genre actually move the goalpost forward from the decades old classics we've come to worship and love. For me it was that moment of finally dragging the 2D metroidvania genre forward.

It's by far the best metroidvania ever released.

Comrades.
 

Jeronimo

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,377
Yeah, I'm a big fan. I thought it looked interesting and gave it a shot before I heard all the praise it was getting.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,801
It's honestly a 10/10 for me, one of the best games I've ever played. It's a shame the difficulty might immediately put some people off, pushing through it is quite the experience.
 

Salpal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
849
I put it right next to Super Metroid and Castlevania: SOTN as the best in the genre and I'll be saying the same thing in 25 years after Silksong comes out.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,467
The similarities go deeper than broad themes. The dead kingdom you are exploring was overcome by a type of disease that caused the citizens to lose their minds (or go "hollow"). You get to see a wave of this disease progress and twist the world as you make progress through the game. You discover that
a previous hero sealed themself away to temporarily stop the spread of the disease. You defeat several lords of the fallen kingdom to break the seal blocking the path to where the prior hero rests. You unseal this prior hero, find that they have gone mad, and must fight them. After defeating the old hero, one of the possible endings is that you take the prior hero's place as sacrifice, temporarily sealing away the disease until some future hero arrives to take your place.

I understand there are archetypes in literature, and that if you search throughout history, you can always find similarities with past works. However, the similarities here go beyond a simple archetype. Moreover, the Dark Souls games were arguably the most influential and heavily discussed (for some, to the point of exhaustion) of the past decade when the game came out.

Like Ocarina of Time then?

I'm not saying it's the same, but a lot of those things that you describe like the spread of decay, hollowing, and the idea of sealing corruption and decay away are all central things to Ocarina of Time.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,324
I feel like a big part of Metroidvanias is the fun in getting new abilities & upgrades & I felt like Hollow Knight's pace there was far too slow. I much preferred the faster pace of upgrades in Monster Boy & the Cursed Kingdom and in Metroid Dread.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,598
It took me like 3 years to make it through the opening section, but once you fight Hornet and go to the main city, the game absolutely clicked with me, and I couldn't put it down.

I wouldn't say it's one of my favourites of all time, but it's really goddamn good, and the only things that really drag it down for me are the slow opening, the fact it feels a bit on the too difficult side at times, and the map icon being tied to one of your equipment slots.
 

trashbandit

Member
Dec 19, 2019
3,910
It's fine, I don't see why it gets so much praise to be honest. It has good music and art, but doesn't feel that great to play. It has the worst jump in any modern 2D game, that's for sure.
 

JudgmentJay

Member
Nov 14, 2017
5,216
Texas
It's a GOAT contender for sure. Top tier atmosphere, art, and music, a simple combat system with a high skill ceiling, great level and world design, a ton of enemy variety, fun and memorable NPCS, intriguing lore. Not sure what else you could ask for.
 

HVivi

Member
Nov 29, 2020
566
Probably my second favorite game right behind Bloodborne. Such a great game. Hope Silksong can live up to it.
 
Apr 23, 2019
411
I need to give it another chance at some point. Finished it, enjoyed it, but it didn't click with me near to the level it has for the gaming community at large.

It has rock solid fundamentals, but outside of a few movement power ups, the core gameplay got repetitive for me well before the ending. I think more build variety or a more complex core move set would help a lot for me, which it looks like Silksong is going to have.

Metroid Dread is the gold standard for in terms of metroidvania pacing. I'm not expecting quite that level from Silksong given it's almost certainly going to be a much larger game, but am hoping for something closer to it.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
I hated Hollow Knight. Felt like I was playing some mobile gacha game with how aggressively it went out of its way to waste the players time. I will never understand the praise it gets.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,325
I hated Hollow Knight. Felt like I was playing some mobile gacha game with how aggressively it went out of its way to waste the players time. I will never understand the praise it gets.
Not to sound rude, but if you're drawing parallels between Hollow Knight and a "mobile gacha game", then it probably makes sense that you will never understand the praise it gets.
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,095
I recently did all radiant bosses and oh boy, I already loved this game, now undoubtedly one of my all time favs
 

Xero grimlock

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,944
Id put it at about 7/10 for me personally, overly long, and the atmosphere with the art and music was very hit or miss with me. Sometimes it was phenomenal others just ok. I much prefer ori and the will of the wisp. Music and atmosphere consistently stellar all the way through and meaningful upgrades all throughout.
 

Molten_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,546
I think, in terms of modern metroidvanias, I prefer blasphemous ... but it's still a really good game.
 

NabiscoFelt

One Winged Slayer
Member
Aug 15, 2019
7,622
My favorite Metroidvania and probably in my top 10 games of all time. Really well designed core gameplay and a masterclass in Metroidvania level design
 

Worldshaker

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,934
Michigan
I love this game but wish it wasn't so bloated. I still managed to finish it three times (100%ing it each time).

I also didn't like the DLC, but that's another topic.
 

TortoiseTesticleOil

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 2, 2021
174
User Banned (Permanent): Troll Account
When the core mechanic is dying and repeating the section you died at, over and over again, tens and tens , sometimes hundreds, of times. but it takes 2 pointless minutes to get to where you were when you died... That's certainly on another level. I hope silksong takes 10 minutes, for people to slurp down their own jizz to, because they won't have time to eat since they'll be hooked on the awesomess of the game and they won't be able to eat, but they will notice, due to the awesomess of the game, the constant flow of jizz coming out of their genitals and nipples, so they start to swallow that sweet licor. I hope team cherry does these changes in silksong because if it's good, it's good. So better to double up!

When one sees the shitty art style and thinks to oneself, oh, I didn't know someone stole my scribbles from middle school. That's certainly on another level. I hope silksong steals one's kingarden scribbles, for people to slurp down their own jizz to, because they won't have time to eat since they'll be hooked on the awesomess of the game and they won't be able to eat, but they will notice, due to the awesomess of the game, the constant flow of jizz coming out of their genitals and nipples, so they start to swallow that sweet licor. I hope team cherry does these changes in silksong because if it's good, it's good. So better to double up!

When your soundtrack is people farting, but then for one minute you put people pissing, because it's raining in a section, that's on another level. I hope they put people jizzing blood in silksongs soundtrack, for people to slurp down their own jizz to, because they won't have time to eat since they'll be hooked on the awesomess of the game and they won't be able to eat, but they will notice, due to the awesomess of the game, the constant flow of jizz coming out of their genitals and nipples, so they start to swallow that sweet licor. I hope team cherry does these changes in silksong because if it's good, it's good. So better to double up!

When one doesn't know what story to make, one just lets people tell one what is the story one made, that's certainly on another level. I hope silksongs will have no indication of anything whatsoever, no dialogues, no cutscenes, nothing, for people to slurp down their own jizz to, because they won't have time to eat since they'll be hooked on the awesomess of the game and they won't be able to eat, but they will notice, due to the awesomess of the game, the constant flow of jizz coming out of their genitals and nipples, so they start to swallow that sweet licor. I hope team cherry does these changes in silksong because if it's good, it's good. So better to double up!

When you stretch a 5 hour game into a 60 hour game, that's certainly one another level. I hope they make a 5 minute game into a 600h game. for people to slurp down their own jizz to, because they won't have time to eat since they'll be hooked on the awesomess of the game and they won't be able to eat, but they will notice, due to the awesomess of the game, the constant flow of jizz coming out of their genitals and nipples, so they start to swallow that sweet licor. I hope team cherry does these changes in silksong because if it's good, it's good. So better to double up!

I kinda of liked the game after absolutely loathing the 60 hours I spent with it. It's a Copenhagen syndrome or some shit like that, mixed with masochism, and just being a dumb dude. Will definitely play silksong. But yeah, Ori is better.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
10/10 in my book.
I love how expansive and gigantic it is.
 

Daddy JeanPi

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,041
Man, i really wanted to like it more but i couldn't. As some have mentioned, it's way too long and really nothing special aside from some bosses. The level design also sucks.