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LTTP: God Of War's multitude of problems, and where to go from here?
- Thread starter luffie
- Start date
I was pretty mixed on the game too and dropped it rather deep in. The RPG and loot fluff just really bothered me and the lack of opposition variety pulled me out the further in I played too. Many already stated as well and I agree fully.
I also found the axe wasn't very satisfying. Most of my throws felt useless as it just bounced into oblivion doing jack all of help as enemies brushed my throw attack aside or barely flinched(unless it was scripted requirement). Maybe because I focused my skill tree selections elsewhere?
I have been meaning to revisit on PS5 with whatever tech improvements the console offers as I did enjoy enough to give it an optimistic second chance. Spider-man as well as I too dropped it for various criticism I had but still enjoyed enough to give it a second chance.
I also found the axe wasn't very satisfying. Most of my throws felt useless as it just bounced into oblivion doing jack all of help as enemies brushed my throw attack aside or barely flinched(unless it was scripted requirement). Maybe because I focused my skill tree selections elsewhere?
I have been meaning to revisit on PS5 with whatever tech improvements the console offers as I did enjoy enough to give it an optimistic second chance. Spider-man as well as I too dropped it for various criticism I had but still enjoyed enough to give it a second chance.
I enjoyed the visuals, characters, setting, story and storytelling, but the camera and combat system put me off finishing the game despite putting in many hours and being pretty far into the game.
I'm not sure I'll ever come back to finish it. It feels like I'm fighting the camera and the controls half the time.
I'm not sure I'll ever come back to finish it. It feels like I'm fighting the camera and the controls half the time.
I was very disappointed by sigrun. Hard, not fun, not interesting. It's like they looked at a Artorias or Friede from the dark souls series and learned all the wrong lessons from them. Made me sad too, because I really enjoyed the other valkyries.
Fair, but what I was saying is I wouldn't just outright dismiss a conversation about a game being played on a different difficulty highlighting a flaw. Because that actually can be true. Some cameras are built for basics, but not actually be sufficient for when the player actually wants to stress it. In simplest terms. It is a valid conversation/debate point. Especially around third person action game cameras.
Fine with the indicators to be honest, the flickers and red has different shades to convey 'attack coming" vs "attack is basically right there", and it creates a reactable thing, without literally having to avoid offscreen attacks entirely and limiting scenarios given the limited roster.
I just find it more suffocating than other cameras of its ilk, as far as action game cameras, its not as lousy at times the way say the Revengeance camera is against mastiffs, but similarly I wouldn't mind a better field of view and it just not trying to basically get it on with Kratos's back.
Nothing you said was a flaw was a flaw for me, outside of the loading masking. That will be eliminated in the sequel as the SSD will load the next location before you've even stepped foot in the gate.
I agree with you about difficulty options being a problem in some games. Best example would be COD on the hardest difficulty. The game becomes a mess full of grenade throwing and aim botting AI.
In the case of GOW, I don't expect most people to like the camera. However I feel that the camera being close to Kratos isn't a flaw cause the game is designed with it in mind and if you learn to play with it, you won't have an issue. The crowd control element works as well as it does cause of it.
But as I said, it is fair not to like it.
Your thoughts on the valks OP are completely nonsensical.
"WHY WOULD I GUESS TO LOOK AWAY FROM THE THING BLINDING ME!????"
I'm not even gonna entertain the rest of that rant "I'm bad, but let me to tell you why that is"
"WHY WOULD I GUESS TO LOOK AWAY FROM THE THING BLINDING ME!????"
I'm not even gonna entertain the rest of that rant "I'm bad, but let me to tell you why that is"
You seem to be making a point that bosses who have to be learned are bad.
I love them personally. Valkyries were the highlight of the game for me.
I love them personally. Valkyries were the highlight of the game for me.
The most important parts in a game are story.. gameplay.. design.. music IMO.
GoW did this all of this almost in a perfect way.
BoTW had a almost no existent story.. gameplay was really basic and the music was forgettable.
Can you really say that BOTW is the full package?
The reviews on that game if the game "Zelda" wasn't on the cover would be much lower and that's a fact.
If you want it let's ignore the scores since they can be misleading sometimes ( a good example is BOTW ) and if you compare BOTW to many other GOTY contenders the game really lacks in many aspects except for exploration that was his best part.
He is just hating on the game.. that's why he had to post so many times on his own thread.
Complaining about a mechanic so simple is the best example of something that no one should complain but he does it anyway.
I would fight the Stranger and the Valks 100 times instead of any enemy in a Dark Souls game. I know thoses games have lots of big bosses and the fights look epic but all you do is block/roll and hit the boss 1 or twice and run away. It's my opinion but the combat in Dark Souls games didn't improve at all over the years.
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I wish the sequel woul get rid of the RPG elements. Didnt feel like they added anything and in fact made the game worse. Whats the point of doing a single shot game if youre constantly pausing and breaking the flow.
Also the uncharted climbing sucks.
Also the uncharted climbing sucks.
I think matthewmatosis summed it up when he said it does many things other games do but dont really excel at any of them.
I remember one of the more striking examples is when he compared it to god hand, god hand was ugly, even for the PS2 but stuff like walls were still designed in a way that all the games physics and mechanics worked the same way everytime.
then he cut to a clip of GOW4 where he knocked a enemy into a wall but the enemy didn't react the way it was suppose to because they were too busy putting all those branches and things to make it look pretty rather make sure it was functional
I remember one of the more striking examples is when he compared it to god hand, god hand was ugly, even for the PS2 but stuff like walls were still designed in a way that all the games physics and mechanics worked the same way everytime.
then he cut to a clip of GOW4 where he knocked a enemy into a wall but the enemy didn't react the way it was suppose to because they were too busy putting all those branches and things to make it look pretty rather make sure it was functional
See, that's the thing, you assume your opinion is the objective truth. It's not. BotW has incredible gameplay and music, amazing art, and delivers on every front it sets out to achieve. The story is lacking, and the game also keeps it out of the way, so it never intrudes on the experience.
"GoW did all this in a perfect way" except I disagree, and so do many others in this thread.
"The reviews on that game if the game "Zelda" wasn't on the cover would be much lower and that's a fact."
lol. What about reviews for GOW, did it get the boost from being a new God of War game?
let me clue you in on something, BotW is at 20 million copies sold, and sells more every year than it did the previous year. This is not because of reviews or brand, if people didn't like the game, the brand or positive reviews wouldn't be able to sustain sales for it (remember Skyward Sword?). It's selling as well for as long as it does because people like it, and word of mouth is positive.
I'm not saying you have to like the game, or anything. You're entitled to your opinion, but just a) have the decency to not project it as a universal standard and b) be open to criticism for your favorite games if you're so quick to criticize others'.
honestly, everytime I see a person with a cloud strife avatar on here I grab the popcorn
100% agreed. That is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect game imo. Easily the best combat this generation and I think increased FOV would have made the combat less visceral feeling.
Depends on the game. There's no wholesale rulebook for "most important parts in a game." If it's a story focused game like GoW, story is importat. If it's a gameplay focused game like BotW, story is not important.
It literally could not care less about having a story. Not the point.
What
Yes.
Are people still sticking to this foolish, tired old argument?
That's the weakest reply on this forums and I see it quite often.
BOTW lacks my friend and no one can deny that.
I understand you are a big fan of the game but I'm sorry to say that the combat is really basic and the music was almost not present on my entire run with the game. The story is also a problem because there isn't one.
You already posted a review before and closed your own thread because people started to agree with the 8/10 review. And they only said the truth about the game.
" It's blasphemous to say, but Breath of the Wild is the most overrated game of all-time. While it does so many things wonderfully well, it lacks the cohesion that makes an excellent game. Now, we are not saying that it is not a great game – it is. On our review scale, an 8 is "great", which is where we would score it if we had reviewed it. But it's not a top-five game of all-time, like IGN's latest "top 100 games" list suggests. It's not even a top-five Legend of Zelda game. If Breath of the Wild weren't a Legend of Zelda game, would it have garnered the same amount of critical acclaim? That is the litmus test for any game, and the answer here is simply, no.
Breath of the Wild set the foundation for an excellent game, even a masterpiece, but simply was not able to follow through. From the lack of story, stale dungeons, grinding shrines in order to attain the Master Sword, and item durability, the game falters on many fronts. As we said earlier though, it is a great game; it simply isn't the masterpiece that the mainstream gaming media makes it out to be. If it were anything other than a Zelda game it would be criticized heavily on these fronts. It is enjoyable, but not elite."
http://vgculturehq.com/breath-of-the-wild-is-the-most-overrated-game-of-all-time/
This is BOTW.. love it or hate it I really hope they don't take the same route with BOTW 2 but I'm already worried.
The realm travel room is only going to a small number of locations, and the animation is long enough to cover the loading for all of them. The fast travel, realm between realms, goes to many different locations, some in the middle of really large locations (the central lake in Midgard is probably the largest), so it spawns the exit door when loading is complete. You could just stand there and pretend you're watching a loading screen.
A lot of the things people think are loading in this game, are actually setting up reveals, or handling visibility, and thus framerate.
Can you really say that BOTW has an amazing story.. combat.. dungeons and music?
I know the game has incredible exploration but imo outside of that the game just lacks everything else.
lol, you're still doing this. Yes, they can, and most people do. Much like you were tripping over yourself to remind everyone in this thread they're a vocal minority, so are you.
it's amazing that the only review that says "the truth about this game" is the one you agree with, lmfao
I also see you ignored multiple posts explaining how and why you are wrong and breaking down your arguments thoroughly.
Then please enlighten me on how BOTW has an amazing story.. combat.. dungeons and music.
Why? I like the minimalist music, you don't. There's no "enlightening" necessary there, you dislike something I do.
Ditto combat. I think it's cool and flexible and offers a lot of great options. I love the durability. You apparently don't. Cool, there's not much more to say.
Are you seeing the problem? You have a fundamental inability to grasp the basic concept that others might like things you don't (or they might dislike things you like).
The game has excellent music. Not only does it have excellent music, it also makes use of its music incredibly well. It fits the desolate atmosphere of the world perfectly.
No, it doesn't have a good story. But not every game needs to have a good story. Different games are good for different reasons because they focus on different things. I love games with great stories, but I also love games that don't have great stories that do other things really, really well.
And how convenient is it that you'd criticize BotW for things "outside of exploration" when exploration is the whole point?
Look, man, you can dislike any game you want, that's how opinions work. But when you start obsessing over your dislike for the game and come into completely unrelated threads and start saying things like "BotW is a bad game, that's a fact, no one can deny it" (when you're saying that while in the midst of talking to people who are denying it), you just seem foolish.
You don't have to justify your dislike for a game that a lot of other people like by trying to make them see the light.
My biggest problem with the game personally was how it removed the creative use of combat and just turned it into "stun the enemy for an OHKO". Collision damage was gone, ring-outs were mostly gone, you couldn't slam enemies into eachother for bonus damage, barely any traps to abuse. You just hit things until they died one at a time. They made jokes about Square Square Triangle, but here it's actually true at times. Not a fan of how later foes completely negate the game's mechanics either, like the Axe throw and pin.
Changing a meter-management system in favour of just generic cooldowns also felt like a bad move. Same with the lackluster enemydesigns compared to the epic greek-myth foes. The RPG mechanics felt pointless as well, they only made foes that were hard because of it easier when you were leveled up.
> boss is too fast
I cannot believe that I'm going to defend the game here, but that's just not a factor here. While the meta of the game is not looking at enemies (so you can get the warning arrow to appear), God of War's attacks - even from the Valkyrie's - pale in comparison to most action games in part due to the lower FPS but also the slower nature of the series.
> you can't dodge them initially
You shouldn't have to imo. It's fine to get hit a few more times by an attack while you're learning. Nothing needs to be fair from the get go. Get a few scars. You get hit a few times and then you know.
Changing a meter-management system in favour of just generic cooldowns also felt like a bad move. Same with the lackluster enemydesigns compared to the epic greek-myth foes. The RPG mechanics felt pointless as well, they only made foes that were hard because of it easier when you were leveled up.
> boss is too fast
I cannot believe that I'm going to defend the game here, but that's just not a factor here. While the meta of the game is not looking at enemies (so you can get the warning arrow to appear), God of War's attacks - even from the Valkyrie's - pale in comparison to most action games in part due to the lower FPS but also the slower nature of the series.
> you can't dodge them initially
You shouldn't have to imo. It's fine to get hit a few more times by an attack while you're learning. Nothing needs to be fair from the get go. Get a few scars. You get hit a few times and then you know.
I love it how you called one of my best games of all time "decent". Nice.
With that said, you gave your reasons OP, and you made an effort to explain them, even though I disagree. I've finished GoW multiple times (in fact, I'm replaying it again at Give me God of War difficulty) and I am constantly surprised how fun the game is even after playing it so many times. And I love how the camera is close - it gives me this feeling of being next to Kratos. It adds to immersion and the challenge.
For me, GoW deserves all the praise it got. My only complaint would be that I hoped for more imaginative boss fights and how the story left the most fun nordic gods for the sequel. Other than that - it's simply amazing.
Of course, this is a matter of opinion and I'm not here to tell you you're "wrong", but perhaps you just weren't using it well? The axe was incredible for me, I felt every hit, and throwing was a big part of it. Of course, there was a right time to throw it and a wrong time to throw it. I think it's on my top ten game weapons list.
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You and a few others were doing the same thing with very subjective aspects of GoW. Some things are less subjective that come up often and those seem like more agreeable criticism that the team should actually look at addressing.
Touting aspects that are also loved by players as something that needs to change just comes off as narcissistic, while I don't think anyone is going to be telling Santa Monica that they preferred having a pitiful amount of bosses and few enemy types for example.
It's funny I really dont want to play the souls games because there hard but I beat the valkyries even though I didnt need to and it really stressed me the fuck out.
I agree with most of your points and ps5 should be able to impove on the obvious tech related ones.
It's still one of the best games I've played on ps4 easily with the first being days gone.
I agree with most of your points and ps5 should be able to impove on the obvious tech related ones.
It's still one of the best games I've played on ps4 easily with the first being days gone.
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The way the title reads as if the game was universally panned and needs some major changes for the next iteration.
The title doesn't matter I'm sure everybody will read the op....
This.
Especially when it comes to the camera. I find it funny how every time someone complains about it either compared it to DMC or the old GOW games. They never take it for what it is but always for what they believe it should be. Cause you know, every game needs to play the same or else it is an issue. The new GOW game is very different from those games even if it shares some aspects.
There have been a lot of people, heck I believe the majority of the people who played the game liked the combat and camera so I am not sure the camera is a flaw when the game is designed around it. It provides a really out of the usual gameplay and is just perfect for the experience they want to give the play. Strategic yet intimate.
Add in an uninteresting story and you have all the reasons I dropped the game 9-11 hours in.
Really disappointed in the direction this franchise took.
Hope they get rid of all the RPG bullshit next time. What a pointless ass system for a character action game. Also get rid of the one shot bullshit. It hampers story telling.
Needs more enemy types and bosses as well.
Needs more enemy types and bosses as well.
Echoing others, but I agree that the rpg aspects are completely useless. It's like they knew people like light rpg mechanics so they shoehorn it in everything nowadays. Garbage design choice for almost every game that's not an actual rpg. It's just one of those may games everyone seems to love to death and I can't see what they see in it. I see a decent action adventure game with fun, crunchy combat but little else with its mediocre level design and horribly uninteresting, repetitive puzzles and tacked-on rpg mechanics. Fun for a playthrough, but nothing sticks out.
"Multitude of problems," I can't. The game is almost perfect for me. I 100%ed it and I've got a NG+ run well underway.
It's a great system that allows for many different builds and play styles, without forcing the player to worry about optimizing stats. No micromanaging in sight. All you have to do is decide what you want to be good at, and equip your best stuff for that purpose.
The only exception is when a piece of armor doesn't really help your build, but it will push you up one level. Each new level gives you a big edge on tougher enemies.
The RPG elements work well because the devs wisely kept leveling a focused affair, with all of the emphasis on armor and abilities.
It's a great system that allows for many different builds and play styles, without forcing the player to worry about optimizing stats. No micromanaging in sight. All you have to do is decide what you want to be good at, and equip your best stuff for that purpose.
The only exception is when a piece of armor doesn't really help your build, but it will push you up one level. Each new level gives you a big edge on tougher enemies.
Seriously, there's some reality warping going on here. The devs are probably not scrambling to fix the formula for GoW5, because they don't need to.
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I made it about two thirds through the main game on Hard (whatever they call the third difficulty). I typically find rpg elements to be shit, but for God of War I didn't find the rpg elements to be cumbersome. Like in dark souls 3, I just ignored all the rpg elements until I stumbled across a reason to spend a minute on my equipment. Although the fact that enemy level mattered a lot relative to yours was complete BS and has no place in a God of War.
The rest of the problems listed in this thread I fully agree with. The combat is clunky and the worst in the franchise. Not having gyro makes throwing the axe extra clunky. And the camera NEEDS to be zoomed out to at least Bloodborne's distance and FOV for the next game.
On top of all of that, the story failed to keep my interest - wow two bratty, unlikable characters learn to continue to be bratty and unlikable but as a duo. Maybe next game Kratos will finally kill Praxis. The game's dialog was completely carried by a body-less side-character.
The rest of the problems listed in this thread I fully agree with. The combat is clunky and the worst in the franchise. Not having gyro makes throwing the axe extra clunky. And the camera NEEDS to be zoomed out to at least Bloodborne's distance and FOV for the next game.
On top of all of that, the story failed to keep my interest - wow two bratty, unlikable characters learn to continue to be bratty and unlikable but as a duo. Maybe next game Kratos will finally kill Praxis. The game's dialog was completely carried by a body-less side-character.
God damn, some of the takes in here. If I were a developer I'd stay far away from the internet. Some people have such a knack for shit talking quality products that it makes you question if anything could ever be good enough.
"Combat clunky, story meh, bad RPG stuff, unlikable characters..."
Sheesh, lol.
"Combat clunky, story meh, bad RPG stuff, unlikable characters..."
Sheesh, lol.
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You and me both. It's a tired, toothless "critique" that weakens gaming discourse. It almost always translates to "I don't like thing, therefore thing is overrated."
Hyperbole is another extreme I see often that just sucks the air out of having meaningful discussions about games. I love game analysis and post-mortems, and they've proven to be invaluable tools in improving game design.
God of War 2018 is an incredibly well designed game. Like, I could study it for ages. What they were able to accomplish within the confines of not only their creative vision, but the hurdles of the technology they were using is super impressive.
There are aspects of the game I wish were different/smoother (ie, more variety in the troll enemies would have been nice, but, whatever, and the loading transitions can be tiresome, but beats a loading screen). But the combat is incredibly well done, and with a level of depth that previous God of War games never had (and I'm someone that adores the previous GoWs). I definitely didn't appreciate the complexity of the combat in GoW until facing off against the valkyries, and then watching videos of very skilled players doing the same (as well as some damn good combo videos highlighting the variety in the combat system).
It married what was traditionally a combo heavy system ( ie, GoW 1- Ascension) with a more measured, tactical, pattern focused combat system (ie, a Bloodborne or Dark Souls), and it works very well. There are a lot of "copycat" Souls inspired games out there, to varying degrees of success in emulating what worked in those games while adding their own feel to it (like Nioh, which succeeds compared to, say, Lords of the Fallen, which I feel falls short), and God of War manages to still feel like God of War, minus mindless button mashing. The move to the Leviathan Axe as the primary weapon after 6 games with the Blades of Chaos, was a great way to not only differentiate it from the previous games, but introduce this new combat system to long time GoW players, while still retaining that visceral feel of rage and power from previous entries.
I'm just super impressed with what they pulled off mechanically and evolving the GoW series in more ways than one, but also not completely ignoring its legacy and roots.
I was also a fan of the RPG elements, but I'm a big RPG fan, and part of the fun for me was finding a setup of armor and runes that complimented my particular play style. Iterating on that system in the sequel would be great (and a no brainer). I actually haven't followed the development of GoW 2018, so I should look into seeing if Santa Monica have done any post-mortem breakdowns of the game, because I imagine it'd be quite informative.
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Too many "rpg elements" that added nothing to the game. You can still have an upgrade system, just don't tie it to rpg level up system. That and more enemy variety. Too many troll fights and enemies are too samey. I don't think the problem with the valkyries op, your playing on give me god of war. Its extremely unbalanced. That's your issue.