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wiill64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,592
With Fire Emblem: Three Houses releasing later this year (hopefully Spring), I've been in a Fire Emblem mood lately. I decided to go and play some of the games I haven't touched/finished starting with Genealogy of the Holy War which was released exclusively in Japan for the Super Famicom back in 1996. It got a lovely new fan translation back in 2016 which updated the text to use the variable EarthBound font and updated the names of most of the characters to the localised ones used in Awakening and Heroes.
latest
Genealogy of the Holy War is the fourth Fire Emblem title and one that introduced a lot of the mechanics that the modern titles still use to this day. This was where the weapon triangle made its first appearance and the magic triangle is also introduced. FE4 was also the first appearance of the skill system where characters would have skills that would enable different effects in and out of battle. Vantage for example lets a character always attack first when their hp is below 50%, while Paragon gives double xp. Because of the introduction of this system though, you need the Pursuit skill to enable the ability to attack twice during a round of combat rather than just outspeed your opponent. There are also items that give characters the effect of these skills like the Pursuit Ring and the Prayer Ring as well certain special weapons.
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The other big thing that FE4 introduced was the relationship system. This is the earliest incarnation of the support system where characters could have dialogue with each other during battle. In FE4 however characters could fall in love and give each other stat bonuses as well as have children together. Characters will gain 'lover points' by standing next to each other and some will also gain a lot of 'lover points' for having a conversation with each other. Once a pair reach a certain amount of points, they will automatically pair up and have a child together if the woman survives until the end of chapter 5. Weapons and skills are passed down to the second gen so there can be a lot of planning to get the set up you want. It's a pretty cool system and the story explanation for the second gen is far better than how Awakening or Fates handle it. If characters aren't paired up by the end of chapter 5 you're given substitute characters for the second gen.
FE4 also has a few unique systems in play. Instead of having one money pot that everyone uses, each character has their own funds which can be increased through arena battles and saving villages. Also you CAN'T trade weapons with each other. If you want characters to have certain weapons or items, you have to sell it to a pawn shop and have the other character buy it back for an increased price. It's an annoying system that doesn't really add anything to the game and only serves to frustrate the player.
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The biggest difference between FE4 and the rest of the series is its maps. These maps are MASSIVE and have multiple objectives and castles to capture. The size of these maps give a great sense of the scale of the war that's going on. Seizing a castle will usually trigger an event and start the next conflict as a bunch of units come out of the next castle to seize. To complete a map you have to seize all of the castles and you will lose if you lose a castle to the enemy. This forces you to make use of all of your units as you leave some behind to defend a castle as the enemy can come for you from different directions. It's a great idea and offers a more unique take on FE strategy with a lot of battles happening all over the map. The problem with it though is these maps can be a slog to play through. If your not on a horse or a pegasus it takes ages to traverse the map and if you're a General or a Knight you're going to be left behind to defend a castle. Luckily warp staves allow you to warp to any of your castles so that alleviates the burden of moving characters a little and you also have the ability to save at the start of your turn which is a great help. Another problem with the large maps is the amount of units they allow on the field. You are unrestricted in the number of units field so between you and the enemy a single turn can take a long time. With all of the maps being huge, there are no indoor maps or boat maps. I would've liked a couple of smaller skirmishes to change things up a little. Don't worry about having around 25 of these maps to play though - there's only 12 chapters in the game as they cover a lot in them.
Castles allow you to do a multitude of things. In allied castles you can shop, fight in the arena, store items, and repair weapons. Yep, for a price you can repair worn or broken weapons and this is a system I like as it lessens the worry of using a rarer weapon for fear of it breaking. In the starting castle you can also promote units that are level 20 which I prefer to using Master Seals, but it would've been nice to do this at every castle. One other cool feature is rescuing villagers or children. If a unit rescues someone, they gain a level. It's a neat feature that's good for levelling up weaker units.
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The story in FE4 is arguably one of the best in the series. I love how the continent of Jugdral is given a large amount of world building right from the opening sequence detailing the Jugdral chronology, which details major events through history like the Sorrow of Miletos, the Miracle at Darna Fortress, and the fall of the Loptyrian Empire. It's enough to let you know about the Dark Lord Loptous and the Twelve Crusaders, which get referenced throughout the story. I like how the story splits in two with the first half following Sigurd before a major event happens, 16 years pass and you're following his son Seliph's attempt to free Jugdral from an empire that has become an authoritative regime. There's a lot going on in this story and I have to say that one of it's main villains has become one of my favourite characters in the series.
The highlight of the story has to be Chapter 5
This is one of my all time favourite chapters in FE. It begins with Sigurd's wounded father, Byron, making his way to Sigurd to pass on the holy weapon Tyrfing. Unfortunately there's enemy units in the way so you have to quickly rescue him before he gets killed. Just when you think you've done enough to save Byron, he dies due to his wounds. Then after seizing Lubeck castle, Quan (Sigurd's best friend) and Ethyln (Sigurd's sister and Quan's wife) show up in Yied Desert with a bunch of cavalier units to help Sigurd. Unfortunately they've been tailed by a bunch of Thracian dragon knights wielding Horseslayers. It doesn't matter what you do, it's impossible to make it to Quan and Ethyln in time. You sit and watch them being massacred in the desert while dealing with other things going on in the map. Ethlyn's daughter is spared but taken by the leader of the dragon knights. Eventually Sigurd's army makes it to Duke Reptor and Velthomer mages. Again you're given some hope that the tide is turning as the Velthomer mages turn against Duke Reptor and help take him down. After the battle Arvis invites Sigurd to celebrate his deeds near Belhalla. Sigurd and his army are welcomed by Arvis and his Velthomer mages. The two have a pleasant chat and then Arvis cuts Sigurd off, claims he is a traitor, brings out Deirdre (Sigurd's wife who had lost her memories after being captured by Manfroy and left on Arvis' doorstep for the two to fall in love), and then proceeds to burn Sigurd and his army to death with meteor spells
The way this chapter is done in game is brilliant. It does a fantastic job of giving you a bit of hope before ripping it away from you. I also appreciate that Intelligent Systems had the guts to permanently kill off the main character and most of his army. It's a great way to get you fired up for the second generation and avenge Sigurd's death. It's also awesome seeing all of these different battles take place on the same map.

I loved FE4. It's sheer size and scope is unmatched in the series (only Radiant Dawn comes close), it's story, characters, and major events are memorable and it has become one of my favourite titles in the series. I hope it gets a remake someday to allow the many fans who haven't played this game the chance to do so and iron out a few of it's issues.
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
Really great post. FE4 and 5 were the only ones I hadn't played, but last year I finally dove into 4. We had a similar lltp thread last year so I'll just quote my post from there, but I generally did enjoy the game. Although I am kinda bewildered by people saying it has the best story in the series.

FE4 was okay, but it felt pretty archaic in it's mechanics and never really gave me an engaging challenge. The large maps are a cool gimmick, but don't really add much to the game. They are huge, but have no interesting design at all. Throughout the whole game I just felt like I was mashing my units up against opposing armies. Each chapter was long and boring.

The premise was cool and the timeskip was handled well though. This is definitely the best implementation of the child mechanic due to being meaningfully tied into the story. There really wasn't all that much narrative though. The conversations weren't all that great and the story itself was pretty standard outside of the timeskip. A lot of the characters were pretty flat and boring.

I did love how absolutely busted Ayra and Lex's kids were. Larcei and UIster were probably my most reliable non-Sigurd/Seliph units. I could just throw them anywhere and they would destroy everything in their path.

I'm waiting for the new translation of FE5 to finish up before I start that. But, I'm looking forward to it. From what I understand it is closer to 6 and 7 mechanically so I have a feeling I will like it more than 4.
 

Blackquill

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
783
Excellent thread, I love the game as much as you do even though it has some glaring flaws (like how slow the game can be as you pointed out). I really hope for a remake too, it's, at the very least, one of the most ambitious of the series and handled way better children system than the Awakening and Fates.
 

Chalphy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,561
The first half of the game is fantastic, the second part is a bit more run-of-the-mill.
 
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wiill64

wiill64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,592
Really great post. FE4 and 5 were the only ones I hadn't played, but last year I finally dove into 4. We had a similar lltp thread last year so I'll just quote my post from there, but I generally did enjoy the game. Although I am kinda bewildered by people saying it has the best story in the series.
Can I ask what FE game you think has the best story?
Personally I preferred Path of Radiance's story but FE4 runs close for me.
 

Weebos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,060
I've always wanted to play it, I just haven't found a simple, comfortable way to do so. I really need to get around to it.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,268
I like the concept of the big maps, but within the actual gameplay it ends up feeling like you spend long stretches of sloooowly moving your army from one end of the map with no action. I wonder how an Echoes version would deal with that.

...remember how the replacement second generation Dancer gets Charisma and is just generally all around better than the "real" one.
 

Xbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,105
Chapter 15 of the newest thracia translation was just finished, so you can start on that soon.
 
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wiill64

wiill64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,592
I like the concept of the big maps, but within the actual gameplay it ends up feeling like you spend long stretches of sloooowly moving your army from one end of the map with no action. I wonder how an Echoes version would deal with that.
That was my biggest issue with the game. I think an Echoes version could help alleviate that problem a little by letting you auto move your army to certain areas (I think Fates had something like that)
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
Can I ask what FE game you think has the best story?
Personally I preferred Path of Radiance's story but FE4 runs close for me.
I liked all the gba games and tellius games more. The FE4 story is cool on paper, but in game there are very few conversations that expanded on what was going on and I felt the characters were pretty forgettable. Chapter 5 is one of the best moments of the entire series though. That was definitely the high point of the game.
 

masaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
551
France
My favorite game of all time.

Also I disagree with this notion:
FE4 also has a few unique systems in play. Instead of having one money pot that everyone uses, each character has their own funds which can be increased through arena battles and saving villages. Also you CAN'T trade weapons with each other. If you want characters to have certain weapons or items, you have to sell it to a pawn shop and have the other character buy it back for an increased price. It's an annoying system that doesn't really add anything to the game and only serves to frustrate the player.

I think not being able to trade weapons on the maps is actually a valid design choice as it puts the spotlight on the characters themselves rather than their weapons. In recent games, you can simply trade ranged/brave weapons between characters in order to maximize your damages, which IMO lessens the role of the characters and gives a lot more of focus to the weapons.

In FE4 you are encouraged to give your units a specific role (such as making a swordsman an armorslayer, or mount slayer, building hit and run units or powerhouses, etc.) which helps the player to get more engaged with their units.

It also gives the game a flavor of strategic depth (whereas most of the other games focus on tactics only) since you get to decide before every battle what will be the role of your units for a whole chapter.

I think it's a bit ironic that the series boasts about its characters but can't really make them meaningful during battles nowadays.

Also having units have their own funds was necessary to prevent abuse and create the best arena design that the series has ever seen.
Other arenas in the series force you to use default weapons because using your own would completely break them. FE4 manages it, but it's entirely dependent on having no easy trading. Otherwise, you could pass around the Elite Ring and brave weapons and completely trivialize it.
 
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wiill64

wiill64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,592
My favorite game of all time.

Also I disagree with this notion:


I think not being able to trade weapons on the maps is actually a valid design choice as it puts the spotlight on the characters themselves rather than their weapons. In recent games, you can simply trade ranged/brave weapons between characters in order to maximize your damages, which IMO lessens the role of the characters and gives a lot more of focus to the weapons.

In FE4 you are encouraged to give your units a specific role (such as making a swordsman an armorslayer, or mount slayer, building hit and run units or powerhouses, etc.) which helps the player to get more engaged with their units.

It also gives the game a flavor of strategic depth (whereas most of the other games focus on tactics only) since you get to decide before every battle what will be the role of your units for a whole chapter.

I think it's a bit ironic that the series boasts about its characters but can't really make them meaningful during battles nowadays.

Also having units have their own funds was necessary to prevent abuse and create the best arena design that the series has ever seen.
Other arenas in the series force you to use default weapons because using your own would completely break them. FE4 manages it, but it's entirely dependent on having no easy trading. Otherwise, you could pass around the Elite Ring and brave weapons and completely trivialize it.
I never thought of it that way, those are great points. I just found it annoying when I found an item or weapon with one character that was more suited for another one but I either had to pawn it or reset and get the other character to find it. Trading is something I've been used to in the series and it was hard not having it here but I can see how it balances the arena.
 

MsMuerta

Member
Nov 8, 2017
622
I would love if a potential Echoes version of this game would present the lore and characters' genealogy links a bit better, it felt a bit weird killing someone and then finding out that person you just killed was the father of one of your units.

And then there's the fact that Azelle was Arvis' brother and that had 0 impact on the Belhalla betrayal
 

i-Jest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,013
I wish Nintendo would have the guts to localize this game with any necessary quality of life improvements.
 

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
I would love if a potential Echoes version of this game would present the lore and characters' genealogy links a bit better, it felt a bit weird killing someone and then finding out that person you just killed was the father of one of your units.

And then there's the fact that Azelle was Arvis' brother and that had 0 impact on the Belhalla betrayal
It was not well presented in the game, but Azelle and Arvis are half brothers and they are not particularly close to each other
 

Grain Silo

Member
Dec 15, 2017
2,509
Might be Nintendo's most tragic story right behind Mother 3.

I really like the story and characters, not so much the gameplay. I've never liked wide open fields with a clutter of units, it's exhausting. But maybe I was just fielding too many.

It really deserves a remake but depending on how much they're willing to change about the social taboos
(*cough*incest*cough*)
in the story it might have to get an M rating.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
FE4 should be the next FE remake. There is a lot of good there, but it really could use a lot of updating as well. Some of the mechanics aren't that great, and I wouldn't call it a very balanced game either, but it is ambitious as all hell.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,268
Might be Nintendo's most tragic story right behind Mother 3.

I really like the story and characters, not so much the gameplay. I've never liked wide open fields with a clutter of units, it's exhausting. But maybe I was just fielding too many.

It really deserves a remake but depending on how much they're willing to change about the social taboos
(*cough*incest*cough*)
in the story it might have to get an M rating.

let me introduce you to a little game called fire emblem fates

FE4 should be the next FE remake. There is a lot of good there, but it really could use a lot of updating as well. Some of the mechanics aren't that great, and I wouldn't call it a very balanced game either, but it is ambitious as all hell.

i mean it would literally be next in line, chronologically, unless they wanted to try remaking Mystery of the Emblem again but since the DS versions of those titles nearly killed the franchise...
 

Grain Silo

Member
Dec 15, 2017
2,509
let me introduce you to a little game called fire emblem fates

In Fates it's an optional thing and it takes some digging to even figure out the characters are related.

Incest is a major plot point in FE4. And the player is told this blatantly. It's all part of Manfroy's master plan after all.

In a world where Game of Thrones is the most popular TV show it's probably not as big a deal as it once was. But in a Nintendo game? Eeh.
 

MsMuerta

Member
Nov 8, 2017
622
Which incestuous pairings could you form yourself? I can only think of one:

Claud and Silvia
 

woopWOOP

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,654
Great game

I like how all the different enemy armies have their own enemy phase theme. Thracia so catchy

Also I wasn't aware there was a new translation patch, neat.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,268
In Fates it's an optional thing and it takes some digging to even figure out the characters are related.

Fire Emblem Fates requires more digging to figure out who the player isn't blood related to - it only comes up when you're A ranking a Hoshidan siblings. The game presents Hoshido as your blood relatives, and presents the Nohrians as the siblings your character avatar has known for as long as they can remember, then lets you marry whomever. (I will also note that the whole "Don't worry the Hoshidans aren't your real blood relatives" handwave doesn't come in to play if the player avatar chooses to marry one of their nieces or nephews on the Hoshidan side). It's real bad and worse than what's in FE4.

Although FE4 is bad with the whole
magical brainwash rape stuff, but you know what, the Disney ABC Media Empire's Once Upon A Time did that like basically every season and if it's ok for Disney I'm sure it's ok for Nintendo
 

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
Although FE4 is bad with the whole
magical brainwash rape stuff, but you know what, the Disney ABC Media Empire's Once Upon A Time did that like basically every season and if it's ok for Disney I'm sure it's ok for Nintendo
What's bad about it? Just because the game depicts it doesn't mean the game condones it. It was clearly presented as a tragedy and a crime. The people who do that are the villains of the game. It's not like in Fates where a gay character is given magic potion to make her straight.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,268
What's bad about it? Just because the game depicts it doesn't mean the game condones it. It was clearly presented as a tragedy and a crime. The people who do that are the villains of the game. It's not like in Fates where a gay character is given magic potion to make her straight.

I don't really care for sexual violence being used as a plot device, tbh. Like, even going, "Oh it's the bad guys who do it and it's framed as a bad thing," it's still like, not great.
 

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
I don't really care for sexual violence being used as a plot device, tbh. Like, even going, "Oh it's the bad guys who do it and it's framed as a bad thing," it's still like, not great.
Then I disagree completely. Plus,
It's not rape. She lost her memory, not her conscious or judgement. She still can give consent, and Arvis didn't force himself on her. Moreover the scene is not sexualized at all, there's zero depiction of sex.
 

Ryengeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,660
Georgia, US
Yeah, this is the main one I'm always seeing referenced and I would love to play a remake of it.
Hopefully this one is the next or really close afterwards for consideration of an Echoes touch-up.
 

masaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
551
France
I never thought of it that way, those are great points. I just found it annoying when I found an item or weapon with one character that was more suited for another one but I either had to pawn it or reset and get the other character to find it. Trading is something I've been used to in the series and it was hard not having it here but I can see how it balances the arena.
I've played the game so many times on top of having done a fan translation of the script it in my own language, that I pretty much know all the items' location by heart. But I can certainly see how it can be annoying going in blind, especially if you're used to having the trade feature.
Not much of a saving grace, but at least the game is quite generous money-wise, and you can always trade money with a thief or a unit's lover.

It was not well presented in the game, but Azelle and Arvis are half brothers and they are not particularly close to each other
Hmm, the prologue actually shows that Arvis cares (or if you're cynical, maybe pretends to care?) about Azelle, though the feeling is definitely not mutual.
Also this is mere speculation, but it is theorized that Azelle did not die and ended as a statue kept by the Loput cult. Extrapolating a bit, but this could have been used by the church to put pressure on Arvis and more easily control him.
 

Chalphy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,561
The dev ran out of time and budget. A lot of settings and details were lost. This game, Xenogears and FFXII are the best games that are never finished.
I've seen Kaga's posts about it, I don't think more money or time would have helped. In some ways, I think some of the things that were cut would have been to the games detriment if included.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,301
I'm not really a big fan of the game.

It has a ton of cool ideas, but the execution is pretty rough.
I love the idea of large maps with multiple armies and castles to seize, but the the game largely blocks off sections, to the point of adding invisible walls for flying units, making these some of the most linear maps in the series.
How it splits up inventories is also rough. The idea might have been to make units stand out more, but it really just ends up encouraging loading up a few with anything good. Characters having their own wallets ends up adding to the poor balance, not only do non-mounted units fall behind, but they're not going to reach villages for money quickly(which is often timed with bandits burning them down).
I have some issues with its story too, but it also has some of the most interesting ideas in the series on that point.

FE5 is much stronger mechanically of the Jugdral games, and that's what I personally value the most from this series. But I can understand the appeal of FE4.
 

masaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
551
France
I'm not really a big fan of the game.

It has a ton of cool ideas, but the execution is pretty rough.
I love the idea of large maps with multiple armies and castles to seize, but the the game largely blocks off sections, to the point of adding invisible walls for flying units, making these some of the most linear maps in the series.
How it splits up inventories is also rough. The idea might have been to make units stand out more, but it really just ends up encouraging loading up a few with anything good. Characters having their own wallets ends up adding to the poor balance, not only do non-mounted units fall behind, but they're not going to reach villages for money quickly(which is often timed with bandits burning them down).
I have some issues with its story too, but it also has some of the most interesting ideas in the series on that point.

FE5 is much stronger mechanically of the Jugdral games, and that's what I personally value the most from this series. But I can understand the appeal of FE4.


I always found this not to be a problem (especially if you play casually and don't care about LTC runs) because you can separate your units in two groups (cavalry / infantry) and have them do their separate things.
As an example:
Prologue: you mostly have mounted units (Azelle starts in the middle of the map, and Arden is...irrelevant. Even the game tells you so!)

Chapter 1: You still mostly have mounted units at the beginning and the second part has forest which benefits infantry.

Chapter 2: Cavalry rushes to Anphony and save the villages while the infantry sets for Mackily. Once Anphony is captured, it's way faster to just warp Sigurd and have the infantry take down Mackily as opposed to do the long trek back with the cavalry / or waste turns warping all of them back.

Chapter 3 starts by having your castle surrounded from all directions.

Chapter 4 has your mounted units going for Thove while the infantry group waits at the bottom of the map to cross the mountains.

Chapter 5 has the desert.

Etc.

On top of that, they at least tried to balance it out by giving infantry the better stats and skills which can't be said for the rest of the series. In any case you'll see a lot of love for units such as Ira, Lewyn, Jamka, Brigid etc.
My biggest problem as far as imbalance goes is the holy weapon bonuses. They support the story/lore by making character wielding them monsters, but they should really tone that down if they remake it.

I guess it comes to different playstyles in the end. That said, I find the design decisions in 4 to be a lot more coherent as a whole than 5.
 
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SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,507
Earth, 21st Century
I am a super huge FE fan and a pretty big fan of this game, but I never got any further than Chapter 6. I wish I had a savestate I could download to get back to that point, because I have no idea why I quit. I was just getting into Seliph's part of the story.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,301
On top of that, they at least tried to balance it out by giving infantry the better stats and skills which can't be said for the rest of the series. In any case you'll see a lot of love for units such as Ira, Lewyn, Jamka, Brigid etc.
I don't think they really did, haha.
Stats are amazing enough between the solid mounted and non-mounted units, and pursuit is the most important skill.
Anything extra they might have doesn't match up to moving across the map faster and moving after combat.

Things like rescue to carry units places and warp do a lot more to close that gap.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I don't think they really did, haha.
Stats are amazing enough between the solid mounted and non-mounted units, and pursuit is the most important skill.
Anything extra they might have doesn't match up to moving across the map faster and moving after combat.

Things like rescue to carry units places and warp do a lot more to close that gap.
They really fixed the skill system in later entries. Tying double attacking to Pursuit was the worst decision in terms of balance.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,301
They really fixed the skill system in later entries. Tying double attacking to Pursuit was the worst decision in terms of balance.
Yeah.
Some characters can kind of get by without it if we really want, but it's generally a quick way to see if a unit is worth using in the long run.

The idea of skills was cool, but they needed a lot of refining after FE4.
 
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Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Yeah.
Some characters can kind of get by without it if we really want, but it's generally a quick way to see if a unit is worth using in the long run.

The idea of skills was cool, but they needed a lot of refining after FE4.
It just seems extremely arbitrary and ruins the unit balance. I mean part of the fun of FE is using a 'bad' unit and getting lucky with some level ups to make them decent and viable. In FE4, your viable units are basically predetermined based on who has Pursuit.

On top of that, the massive map size makes mounted units so much better than foot units.
 

masaa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
551
France
I don't think they really did, haha.
Stats are amazing enough between the solid mounted and non-mounted units, and pursuit is the most important skill.
Anything extra they might have doesn't match up to moving across the map faster and moving after combat.

Things like rescue to carry units places and warp do a lot more to close that gap.
Again, that's only true in LTC runs which the game wasn't designed around. So criticizing the game's balance around this playstyle seems kind of unfair.

The devs wanted the player to use everyone, as shown by the ranking system where exp distribution is a key component, and you'll notice that the unit balance works much better if you play with an AAAA ranked run in mind for instance.
 

GenG

Member
Oct 26, 2017
458
OP, did you trigger the secret cutscene after defeating
Alvis?
If you didn't, look it up. I miss these kinds of cool dialogue bits in the series.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,301
Again, that's only true in LTC runs which the game wasn't designed around. So criticizing the game's balance around this playstyle seems kind of unfair.

The devs wanted the player to use everyone, as shown by the ranking system where exp distribution is a key component, and you'll notice that the unit balance works much better if you play with an AAAA ranked run in mind for instance.
Nah, I'm not talking about LTC runs.
I think it's fair to criticize FE4's balance because with how the game works, using units that can't keep up noticeably slows the game down a lot even when playing casually. I did end up using a few non-mounted units, because that's what some of my favorite classes are, and I either had to slow things down for them, or just have them clean up the leftovers as the mounted units cut through waves of enemies.

The game may have wanted us to try and use everyone, it even doesn't have a limit on how many units we can deploy. However, when it comes time to move people across those massive maps, trying to use everyone just makes things tedious in a way I don't think is fun.

The series has trouble with balance though, and honestly I don't think the games need to have perfect balance, hell some imbalance can be fun because it can vary up multiple playthroughs. It's just that the drawbacks non-mounted units have makes the game less enjoyable for me.
 

Drax

Oregon tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,081
It will either be this or The Binding Blade - Echoes director said he would like to do Roy's story

Pet peeve time. Kusakihara was int systems director for echoes, Nakanashi was Nintendo's director.

Nakanashi isn't the one who is going to decide, it will be Narihiro.

And Narihiros retrospective on Genealogy is funny.

Nah, I'm not talking about LTC runs.
I think it's fair to criticize FE4's balance because with how the game works, using units that can't keep up noticeably slows the game down a lot even when playing casually. I did end up using a few non-mounted units, because that's what some of my favorite classes are, and I either had to slow things down for them, or just have them clean up the leftovers as the mounted units cut through waves of enemies.

The game may have wanted us to try and use everyone, it even doesn't have a limit on how many units we can deploy. However, when it comes time to move people across those massive maps, trying to use everyone just makes things tedious in a way I don't think is fun.

The series has trouble with balance though, and honestly I don't think the games need to have perfect balance, hell some imbalance can be fun because it can vary up multiple playthroughs. It's just that the drawbacks non-mounted units have makes the game less enjoyable for me.

TBH, the thing I love about genealogy is.how different in scope it is compared to later games. Ir just doesn't have this mass produced schlock feel that the gba games have even even though I do understand it not being for everybody.
 
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