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Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
First of all I want to thank the Doom community, without the enthusiasm (and memes😏) I would've never bother getting into a game that's literally older than me.

I was born in 1995 and didn't start gaming until well over 10.
My childhood games are consists of early 2000s shooters like Half-Life 2, F.E.A.R. and Doom 3. (Yep, my first Doom is Doom 3.)
It's no surprise that I had zero interest in 90s shooters cause they just look so much worse than what I grew up on, at least that's what I assumed for the past 20+ years of my life, and boy was I wrong.

I recently bought The Ultimate Doom on Steam and played it with GZDoom and I was blown away by just how much I'm enjoying it.

Before I get into the game I want to talk about some GZDoom settings, I try to keep it as original as possible except for aspect ratio and HUD scaling. That's means software rendering, no texture filtering, no lost soul transparency, tone map set to palette, no mouse freelook, default auto aim and particle style set to square etc. you know what I'm talking about. I did however enable decals (bullet holes on the wall) as well as sprites & particles for effects like blood & rocket trails cause they look much better than the original while still looking like a 1993/1995 game. I'd like to imagine it as a special ultra graphics setting for super computers of 1995.
Anyway here's a screenshot of my game, you can see the blood particles I was talking about.

6tyt4GH.png


Now let's get into the game. I'm playing on Hurt Me Plenty but with no quicksaves so if I die I have to load the autosave at the beginning of the level. (NOT pistol start)

My biggest surprise is how well the combat works especially for such an old game. All the weapons felt incredibly well balanced. The shotgun is useful against smaller enemies but has a slow fire rate and limited range. The rocket is powerful but it has unforgiving splash damage and you will end up killing yourself if you're not careful. The chaingun is excellent against zombie man & imps even in long range but is mostly useless against tougher enemies. The plasma rifle feels genuinely powerful but the projectile is slow and is more easily blocked by corners and railings.

The overall weapon balance is so much better than Doom 2016 and it makes for a truly engaging rock paper scissor combat, or how Hugo Martin, the director of Doom Eternal like to put it, ''chess pieces''.

I always thought people's praise for this game is just nostalgia. I used to cringe when people put the classic Doom games above Doom 2016 in their ''Best Doom games list'' and it always got me like ''Really? This ancient 1993 shooter where you can't even look up & down is objectively better than the amazing rip & tear powertrip that is Doom 2016?''

Now I get it. Doom 1993 is genuinely a tighter, more balanced FPS than Doom 2016 and if you are willing to look past the ancient graphics and controls to appreciate the core design then you will be surprised just how well it holds up. It's a better game and I'm saying that unironically.

After beating Spiderdemon in Unto the Cruel (E4M8) I'm immediately replaying the whole thing from E1M1. That's how much fun I'm genuinely having with this game, the last time I've seen this level of replayability is in Resident Evil 4, and that was more than 10 years ago.

Doom is magic, Doom is love. Doom is Eternal.

My favorite episode is Thy Flesh Consumed. It's hard as balls but at the same time extremely tight and memorable.
Also John Romero's levels are mean as hell, dude is a dick and I can't wait to play SIGIL.
 
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Deusmico

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,254
I played it at release when other popular games were 2d platformers and sidescrollers. Its easy to see why its a legendary game.
 

Reddaye

Member
Mar 24, 2018
2,912
New Brunswick, Canada
Welcome to the wonderful world of Doom and 90's shooters!

Doom is easily one of the best games ever made, and a masterclass in balance and design. If you enjoy the more challenging level designs in the later stages of Doom, you're probably going to really enjoy Doom 2. Which will also really open the door to the massive world of Doom modding, which is what's kept me playing for the last two decades or so. Some of the user created stuff is truly incredible.

It may also be worth it for you to look into expanding your experiences and trying other classic shooters like Duke Nukem 3D, Quake, Shadow Warrior, Blood, and some of the modern takes like Dusk, and Ion Fury. Build Engine games like Duke are pretty impressive for the environmental detail and interactivity they offer (which was a huge step up from Doom).
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,714
DOOM is fantastic, and it hasn't aged a bit in my opinion. I'd possibly go as far as saying it's the best game from that decade.

I tried SIGIL for the first time last week. That's fun, and the soundtrack is great.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on DOOM II though.
 
OP
OP
Blade Wolf

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Welcome to the wonderful world of Doom and 90's shooters!

It may also be worth it for you to look into expanding your experiences and trying other classic shooters like Duke Nukem 3D, Quake, Shadow Warrior, Blood, and some of the modern takes like Dusk, and Ion Fury. Build Engine games like Duke are pretty impressive for the environmental detail and interactivity they offer (which was a huge step up from Doom).

Hell yeah! :D

I have been binging Civvie 11's video and the so called 90s shooter have really piqued my interest.

After Doom II, SIGIL, Final Doom & Doom Eternal I'm going to play Quake, Blood, Dusk and Ion Fury.


If you enjoy the more challenging level designs in the later stages of Doom, you're probably going to really enjoy Doom 2. Which will also really open the door to the massive world of Doom modding, which is what's kept me playing for the last two decades or so. Some of the user created stuff is truly incredible.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on DOOM II though.


I'm half way through Doom II right now and the Super Shotgun is incredible, it feels even more satisfying to use than the one in 2016.
HOW THE HELL DID THEY NAIL THAT IN 1994?

So far the ''tight'' levels have been amazing, I really like Underhall, Focus and Waste Tunnels.
My personal favorite so far is probably The Pit, love the vertical level design and the awesome music.

There're definitely more ''bad'' levels this time. I'm not really a fan of big, loose levels like The Factory & Downtown but I've heard it's the low point of the game.

Either way I'm still having a blast, god bless the Super Shotgun.
 
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Emick81

Member
Jan 17, 2018
973
I bought 1, 2 and 3 in the Xbox store on sale yesterday for about 5 euro's total. Just for the sake of collecting and Nostalgia.

Played it back in 1993 and a few years ago also on pc. Great game. There is something in the pacing and leveldesign that Doom 2016 could not bring to me.
 

bobeth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,305
I'm going through the same process, although I was already 15 by the time it came out (we were poor folks, no computer home). I'm in between games atm (waiting for Doom Eternal!), bought the original Doom on gog, was planning to play for 15 minutes to get a feel for it, and I just could not stop. Well balanced, atmospheric, I was astounded at how fun it was..
 

Rolodzeo

Member
Nov 10, 2017
3,526
Spain, EU
Doom is still a masterpiece. In fact, many early FPS games are still a joy to play and a refreshing experience compared to the scripted shooters we are used to play nowadays.

I highly recommend Dark Forces, it's a great example of those early titles.

7BzT3ZI.jpg
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
Doom and Doom 2 remain some of the best designed shooters of all time.

In fact, the fundamentals of good shooter design were kind of invented by Doom imo.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
It's amazing how one of the first shooters ever made is STILL, decades later, among the best.

I was 5 years old when the original Doom came out. It scared the living shit out of me. I'd play with my brother and my friend Graham from school.
 

StreamedHams

Member
Nov 21, 2017
4,344
Congrats OP. I just bought DOOM for the 4th time in my life today...1.49USD on sale for the Switch for DOOM on the go is just too nice to not have in my life.

To be honest, the last time I played through then campaign was when it released on XBLA in 2006. I finished it on Ultra Violence...I tried it on the hardest (forgot the name) but it's too much for me.
 

Horp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,716
Loved Doom back then, love it still. Right now i'm playing it on ps4 which works well for me, since im bad at console aiming. Game is way too easy with mouse look and a bit TOO fiddly with original keyboard only. I bet console aim is too easy for people that are good at it but for me it hits a sweet spot.
Only complaint; later episodes have some pretty bad levels.
 

Yataran

Member
Jul 17, 2018
439
Copenhagen, DK
Doom is still a masterpiece. In fact, many early FPS games are still a joy to play and a refreshing experience compared to the scripted shooters we are used to play nowadays.

I highly recommend Dark Forces, it's a great example of those early titles.

7BzT3ZI.jpg
Loved it. I played it in its full 320x200 glory, and I'd love to play it again... Is there a good Dark Forces port that, at the least, increases resolution to modern standards?
 

Deleted member 61002

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2019
633
And the best thing: When you finish Doom, Doom 2, Doom Plutonia, and Doom TNT... you can then introduce yourself to the world of Doom fan mod community.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,356
I'm glad you like it, but I can't help but roll my eyes at topic titles like this. You "can't believe" a masterpiece, a legendary game that still gets talked about today is good? What's so hard to believe about older games being great? Why shouldn't they be just as playable (often times more so) than modern games?
 
OP
OP
Blade Wolf

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Doom is still a masterpiece. In fact, many early FPS games are still a joy to play and a refreshing experience compared to the scripted shooters we are used to play nowadays.

I highly recommend Dark Forces, it's a great example of those early titles.

7BzT3ZI.jpg

Looked it up a bit and wow this looks incredible. Not a Star Wars fan but a good FPS is a good FPS.

Does this work with GZDoom? (Is this a dumb question? Sorry I know very little about WADs and other 90s stuff)

I'm glad you like it, but I can't help but roll my eyes at topic titles like this. You "can't believe" a masterpiece, a legendary game that still gets talked about today is good? What's so hard to believe about older games being great? Why shouldn't they be just as playable (often times more so) than modern games?

Sorry but I'm legit surprised how much I'm enjoying it considering it is well before my time.

I've tried various ''before my time'' games and honestly few of them holds up in terms of gameplay, and none of them are able to capture my attention like this.

Take Half-Life 1 for example, I have mad respect for its groundbreaking achievement in game design but honestly I just didn't have any fun playing it.
 
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Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
It plays so well to this day. Sure, there's things that feel a bit od nowadays like the fact you can't look up or down or the infinite height enemies which becomes an annoyance on some levels, but at the same time it's such a polished and satisfying gameplay loop that it holds up brilliantly to this day, with clean enough graphics and lovely controls despite it being one of the first games to even attempt such a thing. A lot of early first person and 3D games aged horribly, Doom is... eternal.
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,806
I'm glad you like it, but I can't help but roll my eyes at topic titles like this. You "can't believe" a masterpiece, a legendary game that still gets talked about today is good? What's so hard to believe about older games being great? Why shouldn't they be just as playable (often times more so) than modern games?
It's not difficult to gauge man. Certain older games e.g. NES titles have aged like milk. Their current playability does not match their impact in context at the time. Doom, OTOH, holds up magnificently.

I guess I roll my eyes at your eye roll....
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,356
It's not difficult to gauge man. Certain older games e.g. NES titles have aged like milk. Their current playability does not match their impact in context at the time. Doom, OTOH, holds up magnificently.

I guess I roll my eyes at your eye roll....
I'm not talking about shitty old games (and there's a bunch of those, not even I would defend those), I'm talking about well-known masterpieces like Doom.
 

Shopolic

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
Another thread for this amazing OST:



Doom II was the first game I played with my PC (alongside Witchaven). Both games weren't suitable for a 7 years old boy and my mother was really angry about it, but Doom II (and first Doom, a few weeks later) became of one of the best games of my life. Played both years later and they were still so fun. Those are some games that you can play 50 years later and still enjoy them.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,754
Ibis Island
Doom 1 to me holds up better than 2 these days. Both are still fine games, but 1 stays a more reserved on its levels compared to the crazy stuff Doom 2 does especially size wise.
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,806
I'm not talking about shitty old games (and there's a bunch of those, not even I would defend those), I'm talking about well-known masterpieces like Doom.
Zelda NES is a "well-known masterpiece". Resident Evil 1 for PS1 is a "well known masterpiece". You couldn't pay me to replay those now. There's a difference between renown and longevity.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
I was entering this thread fully expecting you to talk about how fun it was because of Brutal Doom, but consider me pleasantly surprised to see that you tried to get an experience reasonably authentic to vanilla! Yeah, Doom is one of those magical games that came out at a time and with development skilled enough to merge antiquated restraints and ingenuity to allow for something truly unique. You won't get the kind of experience today because trying to lock aim to the x-axis would be considered insane, but it really adds to the experience of Doom as what is effectively a top down shooter in a first person perspective.

Glad to see you've come out enjoying it, because the Doom rabbit hole goes DEEP with available content.
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
I'm not talking about shitty old games (and there's a bunch of those, not even I would defend those), I'm talking about well-known masterpieces like Doom.
We're not talking shit old games. We're talking genre defining classics that just aren't as playable today as they were on release due to concepts evolving.

Like I can't play Dune 2 or Daggerfall anymore, because the UI is just killing me.

Doom or Fallout 1 on the other hand are still great.
 
OP
OP
Blade Wolf

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Another thread for this amazing OST:



Doom II was the first game I played with my PC (alongside Witchaven). Both games weren't suitable for a 7 years old boy and my mother was really angry about it, but Doom II (and first Doom, a few weeks later) became of one of the best games of my life. Played both years later and they were still so fun. Those are some games that you can play 50 years later and still enjoy them.


This song is already stuck in my head after dying over and over again in Hell Beneath (E4M1)

I was entering this thread fully expecting you to talk about how fun it was because of Brutal Doom, but consider me pleasantly surprised to see that you tried to get an experience reasonably authentic to vanilla! Yeah, Doom is one of those magical games that came out at a time and with development skilled enough to merge antiquated restraints and ingenuity to allow for something truly unique. You won't get the kind of experience today because trying to lock aim to the x-axis would be considered insane, but it really adds to the experience of Doom as what is effectively a top down shooter in a first person perspective.

Glad to see you've come out enjoying it, because the Doom rabbit hole goes DEEP with available content.

You can say I'm already knee-deep in the dead.
 

Jazzem

Member
Feb 2, 2018
2,694
Just to check...we all quick save + quick load on classic Doom aye? <.< I've never been completely clear if that was the intended balance, but restarting a level with pistol only on death is just so brutally unforgiving

But yeah I adore classic Doom! I was lttp also, I didn't play it until about 2009ish on Xbox Live Arcade. Gone through 1 multiple times, as you say OP it's such a tightly designed experience to this day :)

So happy at how good the Switch versions have turned out, joycon aiming's a bit finnicky but it's still portable 60fps Doom <3
 

Rolodzeo

Member
Nov 10, 2017
3,526
Spain, EU
Looked it up a bit and wow this looks incredible. Not a Star Wars fan but a good FPS is a good FPS.

Does this work with GZDoom? (Is this a dumb question? Sorry I know very little about WADs and other 90s stuff)

I played it with DOSBox some time ago as I don't think there are any source ports for the game, but I may be mistaken. AFAIK even the gog release uses DOSBox to make it playable.
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
Doom dropped when I was very young, but luckily I had parents that weren't overly concerned about video game violence and I had a dad (at the time) who was a computer enthusiast. First time he let me play Doom I was blown away. It's been in my top 5 games list ever since.
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Just to check...we all quick save + quick load on classic Doom aye?
I savescum so much it's like playing superhot at times.

Personally don't care much about intended balance, as the intended balance includes using alt to strafe and, frankly, fuck that.

Vertical mouse aiming breaks the game too much though.
 
OP
OP
Blade Wolf

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Just to check...we all quick save + quick load on classic Doom aye? <.< I've never been completely clear if that was the intended balance, but restarting a level with pistol only on death is just so brutally unforgiving

Well the way I play is to not use quicksave at all, so after dying I have to reload the autosave at the beginning of the level.
That means I keep all the guns, ammo, health and armor from the previous level.

The reason why I do this is because I found myself abusing the quicksave to the point where I'll save all the time and reload immediately if I missed a shot with my shotgun, and that's just not fun at all. It breaks the experience for me so I decided to disable quicksave altogether.
 
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Jazzem

Member
Feb 2, 2018
2,694
I savescum so much it's like playing superhot at times.

Personally don't care much about intended balance, as the intended balance includes using alt to strafe and, frankly, fuck that.

Vertical mouse aiming breaks the game too much though.

Ha I hear you, it's perhaps easy to focus on the 'true intention' to a fault, and I always feel folks should play games however they want. And it's not like quicksaving makes it a cakewalk on higher difficulties anyway, there's been several times I've been redoing the same section over and over.

Yeah I'm not that keen on adding free aim on original levels, as cool a tweak as it is, as you can tell the game's not designed for it. Same with jumping, as tempting as that'd be to add for those unrecoverable pits...

Well the way I play is to not use quicksave at all, so after dying I have TO reload the autosave at the beginning of the level.
That means I keep all the guns, ammo, health and armor from the previous level.

The reason why I do this is because I found myself abusing the quicksave to the point where I'll save all the time and reload immediately if I missed a shot with my shotgun, and that's just not fun at all. It breaks the experience for me so I decided to disable quicksave altogether.

Ahah that's a fair shout. I know GZDoom has the option to reload autosave on death so that'd be a good shout. Maybe I'll try that on one of the earlier difficulties someday for a change of pace.

Credit to anyone who's managed to do later levels with pistol only starts on harder difficulties, I'm not convinced it's possible after a certain point D:
 

Transistor

Outer Wilds Ventures Test Pilot
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,332
Washington, D.C.
Just to check...we all quick save + quick load on classic Doom aye? <.< I've never been completely clear if that was the intended balance, but restarting a level with pistol only on death is just so brutally unforgiving

But yeah I adore classic Doom! I was lttp also, I didn't play it until about 2009ish on Xbox Live Arcade. Gone through 1 multiple times, as you say OP it's such a tightly designed experience to this day :)

So happy at how good the Switch versions have turned out, joycon aiming's a bit finnicky but it's still portable 60fps Doom <3
Nay. Starting with a pistol after death is my deserved punishment. One of my favorite things to do is an Ultraviolence run where I have start every mission with the pistol
 

Epinephrine

Member
Oct 27, 2017
842
North Carolina
I played it at release when other popular games were 2d platformers and sidescrollers. Its easy to see why its a legendary game.

Same. That might be the most mind boggling leap in gaming I remember as a kid, even though I had played other 3D shooters (Wolfenstein 3D, Ken's Labyrinth) that didn't even preceed it by that long. It really felt like a leap.

Doom I and II are still stone cold classics. They are modern enough to be perfectly repayable and the level and weapon designs hold up fantastically well. Doom is as close to perfect game that I can think of outside of Tetris. Tetris is perfect.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
It's not difficult to gauge man. Certain older games e.g. NES titles have aged like milk. Their current playability does not match their impact in context at the time. Doom, OTOH, holds up magnificently.

I guess I roll my eyes at your eye roll....
NES? Sure but a lot of 16-bit games still hold up and, when played as they're intended, are more responsive than just about any modern games.
 

Finny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
252
if you're looking for something to replicate the classic feel of doom, you might look into trying chocolate doom, or crispy doom if you want some extra bells & whistles.

anyway, your doom adventure hasn't really begun until you try some of the community made level sets & mods. you're talking nerds who've been playing this game for almost three decades now, with some refining their level making craft the entire time. a good place to start is to just browse through the cacowards to see what catches your eye. keep in mind some of these mods require more advanced engines to run, so for this part you might just want to stick with gzdoom to avoid headaches.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Doom 1 is still the best fps for a reason. It is as perfect as it gets.

Try Doom 64 once it comes out. Itt is really good.
 
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OP
OP
Blade Wolf

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
if you're looking for something to replicate the classic feel of doom, you might look into trying chocolate doom, or crispy doom if you want some extra bells & whistles.

anyway, your doom adventure hasn't really begun until you try some of the community made level sets & mods. you're talking nerds who've been playing this game for almost three decades now, with some refining their level making craft the entire time. a good place to start is to just browse through the cacowards to see what catches your eye. keep in mind some of these mods require more advanced engines to run, so for this part you might just want to stick with gzdoom to avoid headaches.

Thanks man, I have no idea there's even a Cacoward. Will definitely try them out.
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
Doom 2 and the Super Shotgun. I can still hear it...

Other classics: Duke Nukem 3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior
 

Muntaner

Member
May 12, 2018
956
Random fascinating trivia: the last secret of Doom II has been discovered after 24 years from release.

 
Oct 27, 2017
6,302
I played it for the first time on Switch last year and absolutely loved it. In terms of what it is, it's perfect.

This sounds like a weird comparison but I will always have Doom installed and available to play now, for the same reason I love Hotline Miami. Ultra simple but ultra rewarding gameplay, that I can pick up at literally any time on a whim, play a mission or two, and feel like I've had an absolute riot. It has that same quality - as a 2020 game - that a lot of the big popular indie's do.