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Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
So our new post-COVID world gave my wife and I freetime to jump back into the early 2000s and watch two series I hadn't gotten a chance to watch. Thought I'd share some thoughts on both series. I'm just gonna randomly jot down a few thoughts so don't expect a big coherent summary of what I thought of the entire series.

buffy-the-vampire-slayer.jpg


First lets talk about Buffy...

The earlier seasons of Buffy are very much monster of the week episodic stuff with a few episodes dedicated to an overarching plot, but I think I sort of prefer that style to the more season-long stories of the later seasons. Also, I was officially sold on this show when an ancient demon was awoken by a computer scanning pages of an ancient text and building a robot body for itself. I was generally a bigger fan of high-school era Buffy and thought the show lost something when it semi-rebooted itself for college.

Because I'm just rambling, here's how I'd rank the final bosses of every Buffy season.
  1. Angelus (Season 2)
  2. Dark Willow (Season 6)
  3. The Mayor (Season 3)
  4. Glory (Season 5)
  5. The Master (Season 1)
  6. Adam (Season 4)
  7. The First Evil (Season 7)
Dark Willow saves what's otherwise a pretty mediocre season 6. Adam and season 4 as a whole is really blah, also how come they never use that "turn Buffy into a god" spell ever again when the drawbacks to it don't seem that terrible? Season 3 is probably the best season overall. I really like the concept of The First Evil in season 7 but the ending was really unsatisfying (was The First Evil even killed or did Spike just vaporize its entire army?). It also didn't help that the companion season of Angel had a villain who was really damn similar to The First Evil in Jasmine who was way more threatening as an adversary.

Kinda surprised they went 7 seasons and nobody called out how Xander seems bigtime racist against non-humans. Oh, and there's no fucking way Sunnydale is (or was) a town of only 38,000 people.

angel-tv-series-show-gallery.jpg


Okay, now for Angel...

So, I think Angel ended up being the better show. Or at the very least the more consistent show of the two. I kind of love how it starts off as almost like an island of misfit toys from Buffy and ends up doing a lot with those characters. Angel is way more interesting in his own series instead of the wounded puppy act he constantly did on Buffy. Cordelia is actually interesting and gets some nice growth during this series (and then season 4 happens...). Wesley evolved into a less naive and more jaded Giles who's seen a ton of shit by the end. Spike's run on Angel is only for a season but I thought post-save-the-world Spike was a treat and his banter with Angel was great. The new characters introduced in this series were pretty great too. Lorne's a much needed comic relief character. Fred was just really fun as a character (which makes the whole Illyria arc brutal). Gunn was a fun sidekick who kind of fits the Xander role on this show, except not as racist as Xander was.

Connor sucks though and it got to the point where I actively hated any scene he was in. Fuck that annoying little shit. Oh and that cop lady from the first two seasons was lame too, kinda glad she got written out.

All of the seasons of Angel were generally pretty good in my opinion, with season 4 being the exception (albeit the final adversary of this season was pretty solid). I kind of liked how Angel was less afraid to shake things up in comparison to Buffy. Season 5 of Angel was damn near perfect. And Smile Time is possibly the best hour of television produced in the history of mankind.

angel-smile-time.gif


Additionally David Boreanaz is the best actor on either show, hands down. I haven't followed any of his post-Buffyverse stuff so I'm not sure if his work here was a fluke or not but he's kind of awesome as this character.

Also, the ending of Not Fade Away... God. Fucking. Damnit.

ZLrXzWy.gif
 
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hussmk

Member
Oct 29, 2017
127
Buffy & Angel are my childhood.

Am I the only one who LOVED season 4 of Angel? Sure, it turned Cordeila (one of my favorite characters) into a villain, but it was exciting and gripping. Season 5, while great, felt like it had lower stakes in comparison.
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,262
Additional David Boreanaz is the best actor on either show, hands down. I haven't followed any of his post-Buffyverse stuff so I'm not sure if his work here was a fluke or not but he's kind of awesome as this character.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT. I mean he plays the role well, but Alexis Denisof and Amy Acker are on another level.
 
OP
OP
Sephzilla

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT. I mean he plays the role well, but Alexis Denisof and Amy Acker are on another level.
After how Amy Acker could turn from Fred to Illyria on a dime I could definitely entertain the argument that she's the best actor.

I just thought Boreanaz was really good at doing subtle things. Like once and a while he'll let out an Irish accent for a split second. Also his transitions from Angel to Angelus are on point.
 

LakeEarth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,177
Ontario
Buffy & Angel are my childhood.

Am I the only one who LOVED season 4 of Angel? Sure, it turned Cordeila (one of my favorite characters) into a villain, but it was exciting and gripping. Season 5, while great, felt like it had lower stakes in comparison.
I'm with you, dude. The Connor/Cordelia stuff was bad and uncomfortable and upsetting, but IMO everything else was stellar. I get that Connor was annoying as fuck in season 4, but I don't agree with the general consensus that it was the "bad" season at all.
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,262
Buffy & Angel are my childhood.

Am I the only one who LOVED season 4 of Angel? Sure, it turned Cordeila (one of my favorite characters) into a villain, but it was exciting and gripping. Season 5, while great, felt like it had lower stakes in comparison.

I'm with you, dude. The Connor/Cordelia stuff was bad and uncomfortable and upsetting, but IMO everything else was stellar. I get that Connor was annoying as fuck in season 4, but I don't agree with the narrative that it is a "bad" season at all.

There are dozens of us! Dozens!
 
OP
OP
Sephzilla

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
The Conor/Cordelia stuff in season 4 of Angel was incredibly uncomfortable for a multitude of reasons. For starters - Conor and Cordelia are only supposed to be 3 or 4 years apart in age when that stuff happens yet the actors look like they're at least 10 years apart in age.
 

Hystzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,400
Manchester UK
After how Amy Acker could turn from Fred to Illyria on a dime I could definitely entertain the argument that she's the best actor.

I just thought Boreanaz was really good at doing subtle things. Like once and a while he'll let out an Irish accent for a split second. Also his transitions from Angel to Angelus are on point.

David shows his skills during season 3 of buffy during that Xmas episode that introduces the First. That him wanting to commit suicide was mental
 

Hystzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,400
Manchester UK
Oh yeah about the First Evil it can't be defeated as it more a concept the threat was the vampire army in the end. It's defeat only pushes it back it will always return
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,211
Buffy & Angel are my childhood.

Am I the only one who LOVED season 4 of Angel? Sure, it turned Cordeila (one of my favorite characters) into a villain, but it was exciting and gripping. Season 5, while great, felt like it had lower stakes in comparison.

Count me in as well. I don't really care for last part with Jasmine but the opening Apocalypse stuff then the Faith/Angelus stuff is absolute gold. And Wesley is just too badass for words in this season.
 

AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,704
This thread is tempting me to rewatch the show! I have other new things to watch but...Buffy.....
 

Banshee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
487
Missouri
Finished my Buffy re-watch a few days ago, funny enough. Got started after the last thread here a few weeks ago. I ended up enjoying it as much as I did as a teen. Pretty positive experience all around. I cried during the musical episode, and certain events in season 6, and during the finale.

In the last thread I ranked season 4 highly, - putting it as my second favorite season, even - and while I do still like it a lot, I did think less of it compared to my last re-watch 5-10 years back. It was my first season, so I had a lot of nostalgia, but yeah, I agree at this point it's not the best.

My original ranking, going off years ago memory was 6>4>5>7>3>2>1, and my new ranking is pretty far off: 6>3>2>5>4>7>1. Yep, I still absolutely love season 6, no change there, but I think I fell in line with the general consensus more this time around, that aside.

I started my Angel re-watch right after, and I'm about halfway through season 1 right now.
 

TheRightDeal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,591
Count me in the ranks of a seaon 4 defender. The middle is a hot mess and Connor/Cordelia sucks, but the season as a whole starts and ends VERY strong. Season 5 of Angel is the best season either show ever produced and pushes the series above Buffy for me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,285
SoCal
Yeah, Boreanaz just makes Bones a fantastic show, even when it's not great, he just has good charisma as a leading man.
Yeah, the combination of David and Emily was perfection.


And thanks for sharing your thoughts, OP. I may have to plan a rewatch at some point in the near-ish future. It's a shame the HD versions are so butchered.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
7,814
So our new post-COVID world gave my wife and I freetime to jump back into the early 2000s and watch two series I hadn't gotten a chance to watch. Thought I'd share some thoughts on both series. I'm just gonna randomly jot down a few thoughts so don't expect a big coherent summary of what I thought of the entire series.

buffy-the-vampire-slayer.jpg


First lets talk about Buffy...

The earlier seasons of Buffy are very much monster of the week episodic stuff with a few episodes dedicated to an overarching plot, but I think I sort of prefer that style to the more season-long stories of the later seasons. Also, I was officially sold on this show when an ancient demon was awoken by a computer scanning pages of an ancient text and building a robot body for itself. I was generally a bigger fan of high-school era Buffy and thought the show lost something when it semi-rebooted itself for college.

Because I'm just rambling, here's how I'd rank the final bosses of every Buffy season.
  1. Angelus (Season 2)
  2. Dark Willow (Season 6)
  3. The Mayor (Season 3)
  4. Glory (Season 5)
  5. The Master (Season 1)
  6. Adam (Season 4)
  7. The First Evil (Season 7)
Dark Willow saves what's otherwise a pretty mediocre season 6. Adam and season 4 as a whole is really blah, also how come they never use that "turn Buffy into a god" spell ever again when the drawbacks to it don't seem that terrible? Season 3 is probably the best season overall. I really like the concept of The First Evil in season 7 but the ending was really unsatisfying (was The First Evil even killed or did Spike just vaporize its entire army?). It also didn't help that the companion season of Angel had a villain who was really damn similar to The First Evil in Jasmine who was way more threatening as an adversary.

Kinda surprised they went 7 seasons and nobody called out how Xander seems bigtime racist against non-humans. Oh, and there's no fucking way Sunnydale is (or was) a town of only 38,000 people.

angel-tv-series-show-gallery.jpg


Okay, now for Angel...

So, I think Angel ended up being the better show. Or at the very least the more consistent show of the two. I kind of love how it starts off as almost like an island of misfit toys from Buffy and ends up doing a lot with those characters. Angel is way more interesting in his own series instead of the wounded puppy act he constantly did on Buffy. Cordelia is actually interesting and gets some nice growth during this series (and then season 4 happens...). Wesley evolved into a less naive and more jaded Giles who's seen a ton of shit by the end. Spike's run on Angel is only for a season but I thought post-save-the-world Spike was a treat and his banter with Angel was great. The new characters introduced in this series were pretty great too. Lorne's a much needed comic relief character. Fred was just really fun as a character (which makes the whole Illyria arc brutal). Gunn was a fun sidekick who kind of fits the Xander role on this show, except not as racist as Xander was.

Connor sucks though and it got to the point where I actively hated any scene he was in. Fuck that annoying little shit. Oh and that cop lady from the first two seasons was lame too, kinda glad she got written out.

All of the seasons of Angel were generally pretty good in my opinion, with season 4 being the exception (albeit the final adversary of this season was pretty solid). I kind of liked how Angel was less afraid to shake things up in comparison to Buffy. Season 5 of Angel was damn near perfect. And Smile Time is possibly the best hour of television produced in the history of mankind.

angel-smile-time.gif


Additional David Boreanaz is the best actor on either show, hands down. I haven't followed any of his post-Buffyverse stuff so I'm not sure if his work here was a fluke or not but he's kind of awesome as this character.

Also, the ending of Not Fade Away... God. Fucking. Damnit.

ZLrXzWy.gif

Regarding Fred and Illyria if you want to be happy look at what the comics do for them both. It gives them a HUGE break.

And yeah Not Fade Away is one of my favourite finales of all time. Awesome ending. Plus the Angel theme rules.
 

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
35,526
The Rapscallion
I'm loving all the Buffy threads popping up recently. Welcome to the club, OP. I agree with a lot of what you said OP, season 3 is the best of Buffy and the high school seasons I think are the best. Angel season 5. Nuff said. These shows weren't perfect, but damn if I haven't been able to find something to scratch the same itch.

I will say I think Buffy gave Xander some pushback on his vampire hatred when they all found out Angel was still alive, though it wasn't much. A large portion of fans never forgave him for not telling Buffy about the soul spell Willow was about to do on Angel in S2 lol. Which is fair

Finally, Connor sucks.