LTTP: Alien (1979)

Scullibundo · Sep 19, 2020

Alien 3 (Assembly Cut included) sucks.

It's a dour, slog of a film that is a bore to get through and looks like shit. People always say it's great because it goes back to the premise of trying to make a single Xeno terrifying, but the Xeno in the original film was scary because it's an unknown entity (and because of how that tension is masterfully created by Scott, which pervades through rewatches). Alien 3 is actually proof of why Cameron was smart to change gears. And yet he still introduced an unknown entity in the Queen.
But more than that, Aliens is also much more thematically rich than the nihilism of Alien 3.

Resurrection is a more interesting watch than Alien 3, because even if it's a complete tyre fire car crash, it at least has some interesting visual flourishes. A car crash is always more interesting to view than a car that has safely veered off the road at 2mph into a clearing of nothingness.

Fuck Alien 3.

FallenGrace · Sep 19, 2020

Yaboosh said:
There's a bizarre amount of Aliens hate in this thread.

Seriously it's kinda blown my mind. It's one of my all time top films ever.

Tuorom · Sep 19, 2020

Aurc said:
.

What are your thoughts on the other tense monster movies around that decade (the trifecta of Predator, Terminator, Alien)? I have always found they were pretty similar and equally as good in their own way.

Berto · Sep 19, 2020

In relation to Alien Ressurection, I always found amazing how they gave such a dumb script and story to a great director like Jean Pierre Jeunet. You manage to get the guy who made Delicatessen and The City of Lost Children and you give him... that to work? At least that made him go back to France and made Amelie.

Huey · Sep 19, 2020

Vaser said:
They're all mediocre compared to Predator. Seriously, I've watched every Alien movie and I can barely remember anything.

Said absolutely no one ever.

Seriously, I absolutely adore Predator (and Predator 2) but they are vastly inferior as films. Alien and Aliens could be taught in film schools (and I'm sure are in some contexts).

Purely speaking as creatures, that's a different story (and thread)

Rocket Schnauzer · Sep 19, 2020

Scullibundo said:
Alien 3 (Assembly Cut included) sucks.

It's a dour, slog of a film that is a bore to get through and looks like shit. People always say it's great because it goes back to the premise of trying to make a single Xeno terrifying, but the Xeno in the original film was scary because it's an unknown entity (and because of how that tension is masterfully created by Scott, which pervades through rewatches). Alien 3 is actually proof of why Cameron was smart to change gears. And yet he still introduced an unknown entity in the Queen.
But more than that, Aliens is also much more thematically rich than the nihilism of Alien 3.

Resurrection is a more interesting watch than Alien 3, because even if it's a complete tyre fire car crash, it at least has some interesting visual flourishes. A car crash is always more interesting to view than a car that has safely veered off the road at 2mph into a clearing of nothingness.

Fuck Alien 3.

I love Alien 3. It's so desolate - it's let down when they try to turn it into action or whatever but I love the tone. It's incredibly bleak. Resurrection actively annoys me - yeah it has some visual flair at times but it's pure comic book and I can't stand the acting from the wheelchair guy.

Scullibundo · Sep 19, 2020

Berto said:
In relation to Alien Ressurection, I always found amazing how they gave such a dumb script and story to a great director like Jean Pierre Jeunet. You manage to get the guy who made Delicatessen and The City of Lost Children and you give him... that to work? At least that made him go back to France and made Amelie.

Wasn't Resurrection the first film where Whedon started throwing his collaborators under the bus?

Lotto · Sep 19, 2020

my favorite sci-fi film of all time. don't worry OP, i didn't watch it until my mid-20s. i just love everything about it.

Deleted member 21339 · Sep 19, 2020

Scullibundo said:
Alien 3 (Assembly Cut included) sucks.

It's a dour, slog of a film that is a bore to get through and looks like shit. People always say it's great because it goes back to the premise of trying to make a single Xeno terrifying, but the Xeno in the original film was scary because it's an unknown entity (and because of how that tension is masterfully created by Scott, which pervades through rewatches). Alien 3 is actually proof of why Cameron was smart to change gears. And yet he still introduced an unknown entity in the Queen.
But more than that, Aliens is also much more thematically rich than the nihilism of Alien 3.

Resurrection is a more interesting watch than Alien 3, because even if it's a complete tyre fire car crash, it at least has some interesting visual flourishes. A car crash is always more interesting to view than a car that has safely veered off the road at 2mph into a clearing of nothingness.

Fuck Alien 3.

You just mad Fincher

killed off Cameron's Newt and Hicks.

Scullibundo · Sep 19, 2020

JB1981 the OP hasn't yet seen Aliens or Alien 3, so you may want to tag that.

You're also wrong. It's a bad choice no doubt, but not close to the reason Alien 3 sucks.

super-heated plasma · Sep 19, 2020

I just rewatched all of them recently. Really only the first two are requjred viewing 3 is ok. 4 is pretty bad but does sime have decent and twisted moments. Covenant was bad on so many levels The only thing I liked about it was the cinematography.

Nida · Sep 19, 2020

Seems like I'm in the minority of people who enjoyed Prometheus and Alien: covenant.

softtack · Sep 19, 2020

Covenant was supposed to be Noomie Rapeface and Fassbender going on a space adventure 😤

Scullibundo · Sep 19, 2020

softtack said:
Covenant was supposed to be Noomie Rapeface and Fassbender going on a space adventure.

Was this supposed to be funny?

Nerokis · Sep 19, 2020

Huey said:
Said absolutely no one ever.

Seriously, I absolutely adore Predator (and Predator 2) but they are vastly inferior as films. Alien and Aliens could be taught in film schools (and I'm sure are in some contexts).

Purely speaking as creatures, that's a different story (and thread)

I agree with the Alien and Aliens admiration in this post...but I could 100% see Predator being taught in film schools. I watched it for the first time a few weeks ago, and went in with somewhat low expectations, thinking it would just be an action movie about a super macho dude. It ended up being a fucking brilliant subversion of my expectations, and was just such a beautiful film across the board.

winjet81 · Sep 19, 2020

Alien 3 is great; lonely, desolate and bleak. The last act in the molten pits is the only part that's weak.

Aliens is overrated: good space marine movie, but not in the same league as the original movie.

Jamesways · Sep 19, 2020

You will really enjoy Alien Isolation. It's a bit over long, but man does it nail the feel of the first film.
I should play that again.

FreedomFrisbee · Sep 19, 2020

CloudWolf said:
And speaking of, I think you're really misappropriating Covenant when you compare it to a "teenage slasher film".

The premise is explicitly 'couples in space getting hunted by monsters', one couple dies while having sex in a shower. These are about all that defines that genre.

The 'slip on a banana peel and die' also detracts greatly from any presumed seriousness the movie is supposed to have.

Therion · Sep 19, 2020

Aliens is the first movie I can remember watching way back when on some tiny CRT TV so I can't fully separate it from the nostalgia, but I've always considered it to be on the same level as Alien, and then the others are all lesser films to varying degrees. I recommend watching the theatrical cut of Aliens for the first viewing and, if you ever come back to it, check out the special edition on repeat viewings for the extra scenes.

Nappuccino · Sep 19, 2020

There are scenes from Aliens that are outright incredible. But I just do not connect with much of what it's trying to do, and Cameron, in Aliens at least, just doesn't have the eye for image that Ridley Scott brought to Alien.

I've come around on the movie, more or less, but it's a solid 8 for me while Alien is about a perfect movie I can imagine.

BossAttack · Sep 19, 2020

Set design of the original is still unmatched including both spaceships, alien and human.

Brhoom · Sep 19, 2020

Justice for Veronica Catwright for delivering an outstanding performance. Huge respect for any actor/actress that manages to emote and convey true fear on screen.

Dan-o · Sep 19, 2020

CloudWolf said:
While it's true that Covenant is more limited in scope than Prometheus, I only see that as a plus. Prometheus was grand in scope, but completely failed to deliver on literally any of its themes. Covenant aims much lower and is therefore better able to pay off its thematic ideas.

And speaking of, I think you're really misappropriating Covenant when you compare it to a "teenage slasher film". Because it's definitely not in my opinion. I see it as a gothic horror about a mad scientist (David) who lures new test subjects to his lair to be able to continue perfecting his own Frankenstein's monster.

The main character of Covenant is IMO not any of the crew of the ship, it's David. He's the one that has a full character arc and

wins in the end

. It's basically a very nihilistic film that delves into the depravity of Nazi-esque human experimentation. The human characters are basically just tools to be able to get there.

I kinda agree with you that the script is a bit reactionary. As in, the end with the Alien is clearly written to please whining Alien fans and shouldn't be in there at all. Instead, the ending should've focused even more on David. The reactionary scenes towards Prometheus (the opening scene and the white giants annihilation scene) were great though and added a needed depth (and horror) to David's character.

Of course, as a prequel to Alien it's lousy as the Xenomorph that showed up in Alien and Aliens being created by David is an inherently dumb idea (but then again, that concept is from Prometheus and is unfortunately too big to explain away in a single scene like they did with the white giants). However, viewing Alien Covenant as a mostly standalone film, it's in my opinion pretty damn great.

I completely agree. Covenant works for me for all of these reasons. It's the bleakest of the entire series, IMO, and has some genuinely horrific moments (in a good way) and I feel like it even elevates Prometheus for being as good as it is.

I love it. It's top-tier in the series.

Nappuccino · Sep 19, 2020

Brhoom said:
Justice for Veronica Catwright for delivering an outstanding performance. Huge respect for any actor/actress that manages to emote and convey true fear on screen.

She (and the rest of the crew) is legit great.

More_Badass · Sep 19, 2020

Huey said:
Said absolutely no one ever.

Seriously, I absolutely adore Predator (and Predator 2) but they are vastly inferior as films. Alien and Aliens could be taught in film schools (and I'm sure are in some contexts).

Purely speaking as creatures, that's a different story (and thread)

I will not abide sullying of Predator in this thread. Its merits as a film would make an interesting comparison with Aliens and their approach to subverting the engrained action expectations of the era with horror

Chikor · Sep 19, 2020

Love Alien to death, one of my favorite movies, for years I held it against Aliens that it's not Alien, but that's because I'm dumb.
Aliens is great, and it's great that it's a different movie, it works great and it's a good thing it doesn't go for the same story again.
And like yeah, it's not nearly as scary as Alien, but it doesn't need to be. plus ffs do I really want a movie more scary than Alien?
Also, James Cameron just at the top of his game.

Brhoom said:
Justice for Veronica Catwright for delivering an outstanding performance. Huge respect for any actor/actress that manages to emote and convey true fear on screen.

She isn't acting there, they didn't tell them about the chestbuster scene and she passed out after that.

The making of Alien's chestburster scene

Cast and crew recall the moment a monster emerged from John Hurt's stomach

www.theguardian.com

Brhoom · Sep 19, 2020

Chikor said:
Love Alien to death, one of my favorite movies, for years I held it against Aliens that it's not Alien, but that's because I'm dumb.
Aliens is great, and it's great that it's a different movie, it works great and it's a good thing it doesn't go for the same story again.
Also, James Cameron just at the top of his game.

She isn't acting there, they didn't tell them about the chestbuster scene and she passed out after that.

The making of Alien's chestburster scene

Cast and crew recall the moment a monster emerged from John Hurt's stomach

www.theguardian.com

She knew about it and saw it before shooting, what she didn't know is that it was going to burst out of his chest so you're right.

Still think she did an incredible job

Chikor · Sep 19, 2020

Brhoom said:
She knew about it and saw it before shooting, what she didn't know is that it was going to burst out of his chest so you're right.

Still think she did an incredible job

For sure, I didn't meant to imply otherwise. I think the acting and casting is just all around fantastic in that film.

Deleted member 46493 · Sep 19, 2020

Yaboosh said:
There's a bizarre amount of Aliens hate in this thread.

Maybe this is unfair but I get a lot of "Alien is slower and therefore more mature/better!!!" vibes. People keep saying Aliens is a dumb macho action film. Did these people watch the same movie? The meathead marines get wiped out and it's a thriller film where they find an escape.

More_Badass · Sep 19, 2020

winjet81 said:
Alien 3 is great; lonely, desolate and bleak. The last act in the molten pits is the only part that's weak.

Aliens is overrated: good space marine movie, but not in the same league as the original movie.

Aliens is barely a "space marine" movie. Most of them die immediately; all their weapons either do nothing to save them or actively make their situation worse. I hesistate to even call it an action movie. It's very much still geared towards horror and suspense, just on a different wavelength than Alien

jcs said:
Maybe this is unfair but I get a lot of "Alien is slower and therefore more mature/better!!!" vibes. People keep saying Aliens is a dumb macho action film. Did these people watch the same movie? The meathead marines get wiped out and it's a thriller film where they find an escape.

This

LilWayneSuckz · Sep 19, 2020

The fact that there are people on Era who think that Alien: Covenant is better than Prometheus is just....I can't even...

As a life long Alien stan, that bothers me.

Deleted member 8752 · Sep 19, 2020

Heynongman! said:
I think it's possible to do this without completely altering the tone. Aliens is goofy, and I don't think that is a good thing

I agree. The first movie is the only one I like.

Nappuccino · Sep 19, 2020

LilWayneSuckz said:
The fact that there are people on Era who think that Alien: Covenant is better than Prometheus is just....I can't even...

As a life long Alien stan, that bothers me.

Can we agree that both are bad and picking the better one comes down to which pictures we like better and/or which deaths were cooler?

Chikor · Sep 19, 2020

jcs said:
Maybe this is unfair but I get a lot of "Alien is slower and therefore more mature/better!!!" vibes. People keep saying Aliens is a dumb macho action film. Did these people watch the same movie? The meathead marines get wiped out and it's a thriller film where they find an escape.

They are literally called the United States Colonial Marine Corps.
But hey, people thought Starship Troopers is a fascist movie.

LilWayneSuckz · Sep 19, 2020

Nappuccino said:
Can we agree that both are bad and picking the better one comes down to which pictures we like better and/or which deaths were cooler?

No, Prometheus was a good movie; is it on the same level of Alien or Aliens? Hell naw. But, Alien: Covenant was dumb AF, I legit thought about leaving the movie theater after watching like 2 scenes.

Also, yes, the actions of many in Prometheus were dumb as hell, but the overall plot was interesting.

Nappuccino · Sep 19, 2020

LilWayneSuckz said:
No, Prometheus was a good movie; is it on the same level of Alien or Aliens? Hell naw. But, Alien: Covenant was dumb AF, I legit thought about leaving the movie theater after watching like 2 scenes.

Also, yes, the actions of many in Prometheus were dumb as hell, but the overall plot was interesting.

I mean, prometheus lost me when they found a tiny 2D pattern of dots and decided they mapped perfectly to a single 3D pattern in space--a place infamous for it's infinite scope and uncountable planetoid objects.

But David is pretty great.

LilWayneSuckz · Sep 19, 2020

Nappuccino said:
I mean, prometheus lost me when they found a tiny 2D pattern of dots and decided they mapped perfectly to a single 3D pattern in space--a place infamous for it's infinite scope and uncountable planetoid objects.

But David is pretty great.

I mean if that's the most glaring criticism for Prometheus...

Alien: Covenant as a film is just not good.

Nappuccino · Sep 19, 2020

LilWayneSuckz said:
I mean if that's the most glaring criticism for Prometheus...

Alien: Covenant as a film is just not good.

It's like the first thing that happens in the movie--it's got a lot more.

astro · Sep 19, 2020

rude said:
Aliens is ok. Alien 3 and Prometheus are the best movies in the series, so jot that down for future reference. Enjoy!

Lol.

LilWayneSuckz · Sep 19, 2020

Nappuccino said:
It's like the first thing that happens in the movie--it's got a lot more.

I'm aware, but Prometheus is just a better film than Alien: Covenant.

Disregarding any Cinemasins-esque nitpicks, it is simply just a better film.

Nappuccino · Sep 19, 2020

LilWayneSuckz said:
I'm aware, but Prometheus is just a better film than Alien: Covenant.

Disregarding any Cinemasins-esque nitpicks, it is simply just a better film.

I don't think the core premise of the inciting action is a cinemasins-esque nitpick. Is it the worst issue of the movie? No at all. The movie has a lot of problems on a character, script, theme, and canon level, but the absurdity of the opening was a major wakeup call to me that Prometheus was not well considered.

It is very pretty, though, and that does count for a lot (I mean this genuinely).

LilWayneSuckz · Sep 19, 2020

Nappuccino said:
I don't think the core premise of the inciting action is a cinemasins-esque nitpick. Is it the worst issue of the movie? No at all. The movie has a lot of problems on a character, script, theme, and canon level, but the absurdity of the opening was a major wakeup call to me that Prometheus was not well considered.

It is very pretty, though, and that does count for a lot (I mean this genuinely).

Invictus · Sep 19, 2020

Scullibundo said:
Fuck Alien 3.

All that needs to be said really....

BossAttack · Sep 19, 2020

LilWayneSuckz said:
I'm aware, but Prometheus is just a better film than Alien: Covenant.

Disregarding any Cinemasins-esque nitpicks, it is simply just a better film.

It's really not. Prometheus had some interesting ideas, but they are all executed poorly. It's more ambitious than Covenant, but its a far worse film.

Nappuccino · Sep 19, 2020

Invictus said:
All that needs to be said really....

But Alien 3 is pretty great until the alien shows up.

LilWayneSuckz · Sep 19, 2020

BossAttack said:
It's really not. Prometheus had some interesting ideas, but they are all executed poorly. It's more ambitious than Covenant, but its a far worse film.

I disagree, Prometheus had all interesting ideas that were executed well, but the characters (outside of Shaw and David) were dumb as hell which is why most people malign the movie.

Covenant has all of the worst qualities of Prometheus but doesn't even have the ability to disguise itself as a standalone sci-fi film.

Invictus · Sep 19, 2020

Nappuccino said:
But Alien 3 is pretty great until the alien shows up.

Yes.... it's an amazing 15 minutes.

BossAttack · Sep 19, 2020

LilWayneSuckz said:
I disagree, Prometheus had all interesting ideas that were executed well, but the characters (outside of Shaw and David) were dumb as hell which is why most people malign the movie.

Covenant has all of the worst qualities of Prometheus but doesn't even have the ability to disguise itself as a standalone sci-fi film.

Which?

LilWayneSuckz · Sep 19, 2020

BossAttack said:
Which?

The setting of an alien planet, meeting your creators/playing god, a prequel to Alien that actually does a service to the horror elements in the first film.

Alien: Covenant tries to right any issues with the first movie by adding Alien to the title, adding a Ripley stand in, giving a contrived reason for why the alien looks the way it does in Alien...it's trash. Also, the dialogue and the story are absolute garbage.

Invictus · Sep 19, 2020

In 1986 I was 11 years old. My parents had recently divorced and my father took me to Chicago (we are from south Texas) to visit relatives and to get away and just take a break from everything. It's one of my best memories with my father and I remember it like it was yesterday. We stood outside the theater with my grandmother. The Karate Kid 2 poster was front and center. I thought that's what my dad was taking me to see. I was wrong. My father watched Alien all the time so when the movie started and I saw the ship I knew we were watching the sequel to Alien. My grandmother had her hand over her eyes the entire 2 hours and when she would occasionally look at the screen would mutter oh good lord. The crowd was full and must have stood and cheered 2 or 3 times. When we got out of the movie my dad asked me if I liked it. I told him it was the best movie I had ever seen. I haven't spoken to my father in years but I'll always remember that day and aliens is still my favorite movie ever. It's just perfect. It has heart. It has emotion. It has action. It has great characters. It has everything. I love we that fuckin movie. Alien is pretty good too😏

LTTP: Alien (1979)

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