• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

thecowboypoet

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,011
Growing up in the 90s, TNG, DS9, and Voyager were shows that were often on, though none of them ever captured my imagination like Star Wars did. To me, Star Trek just felt boring and stuffy.
But when the first season of Discovery hit and I liked it a lot! Season 2 was even better. Discovery was definitely not stuffy.
When Star Trek: Picard started a few months ago, I gave it a go too. And I really liked it! From distant vague memories and also memes, I knew enough about who Picard, Data, Riker ("hey it's the guy who sits in chairs weird!") are. I was born a few months before TNG went to air but it ran long enough that I definitely do remember it being on (though, to be honest, the only episode that even seemed familiar was Parallels). My wife is three years younger than me, but she had no idea what the heck was going on or who these people were. So I talked to some friends who told me to use an episode guide and skip as much as season 1 and 2 as possible, which I did and then followed it up with the 4 TNG movies.
Anyways!
This show starts off terribly. Q became one of my favourite recurring characters but this was not the way to introduce him or set up the show. He's far too whimsical, especially in his first appearance, and doesn't really reflect what the show will be like. It doesn't really introduce any of the characters well either. And that's the problem with the first few seasons, it's not the bad episodes, it's the boring episodes, which are compounded with the fact that you, as a viewer, don't really care about any of these characters yet. Eventually you do, which helps the bad/boring episodes be more tolerable. At this point I'd be down for watching Data, Riker, Worf, etc do whatever even if it is boring, since they're such great characters. The only character I felt was wasted was Troi. The writers didn't seem to know what to do with her. The episodes that focus on her tend to be the worst in the series. She didn't really seem to be much of a councillor too. I'm sure I'm not the first person to suggest this, but Guinan was better at Troi's job than she was. Beverly seemed to fair much better, and I was glad to have her back in season 3.... though the worst episode I saw was the season 7 episode where she starts banging her grandma's boytoy (who is a ghost). What the hell.
I feel like this might be the most wildly inconsistent show I've ever seen. But Yesterday's Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds, Chain of Command, All Good Things, etc are so good, my only complaint is they could have worked well as multi-episode arcs, especially Yesterday's Enterprise. Sometimes the show moved on from things really quickly, things I would have liked to seen followed up on. What happened with the crew of the USS Bozeman? Those people are living in the future now, are they still in Starfleet? How are they adjusting? I want to know!

Random thoughts:
-Season 2 sucks for getting rid of Crusher. Instead we get some lady who's mean to my boy Data?! No thank you!
-Maybe because I ended up skipping a lot of season 1 and 2 but Wesley never bothered me that much. But I felt like his end was unsatisfying. For such a pivotal character in the first 4 seasons of TNG, it sucks to see him totally forgotten about in the movies. He shows up in the last one, in a Starfleet uniform (!!) but doesn't even get lines or acknowledgement... he's essentially an extra.
-The script for All Good Things probably would have worked better as a movie than Generations was. Kirk felt shoehorned in and falling off a cliff isn't really a satisfying end for one of the most legendary television characters of all time. In fact the Kirk stuff could have been removed entirely and it wouldn't have really impacted anything. I would have brought Kirk back earlier in the movie and had the scenes of him not wanting to step on the toes of a new captain be on the Enterprise-D with Picard (obviously played out differently since Picard is a better captain than Cameron from Ferris Bueller).
-The non-Kirk stuff in Generations didn't really feel important enough to be anything more than your average episode. This is also a problem with Insurrection.
-It was nice to see the Enterprise with proper lighting in the films. I get that TNG is television show from the late 80s and early 90s... I guess dynamic lighting takes more time to set up?? Because it shouldn't really be that much more expensive. On TNG, everything in the Enterprise (or any other indoor location) looks flat and boring. Except for in the episode Yesterday's Enterprise. I guess being at war with the Klingons calls for moodier lighting?? I just feel like there was more opportunities for better lighting.
-Outside of Star Trek: Picard, the franchise in general reminds me of Pokemon with it's gen-1 pandering. The Kelvin movies, Discovery, the Short Treks with Pike, all tie into TOS. Give me more TNG love, please!
-I wish recurring characters like Barclay, Guinan, and Ro Laren were around more. Though I guess the writers didn't really seem to know what to do with all of the main characters, so maybe it's best these characters weren't around unless it was important. Maybe that's why on Discovery, they don't focus on all of the bridge crew?
-I can definitely now really see the influence TNG had on television, shows like Buffy, Lost, Fringe, etc etc were obviously inspired by the groundwork laid out by TNG.
-Data is the best character. It's too bad he never uses his emotion chip in the show and it quickly gets forgotten about in the movies.
GxilNld.gif



Sorry for the long post! In summary: TNG is a great show, frustrating at times, but great. Onwards... to DS9!!!
 

derFeef

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,358
Austria
I made a DS9 thread a weeks back :)
Watched it fully from beginning to end. It might be better than TNG.
Still love TNG tho.
 

Big Tent Expat

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,400
Despite the fact that I think DS9 is the better show and had more characters that I liked, I come back to TNG more frequently because has the two best characters in all of Star Trek (Picard and Data) and it's easier to rewatch since it's episodic. Plus TNG is more optimistic and hopeful so no matter what is going on in the real world, it's just comforting to consistently revisit.
 

Doom_Bringer

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,181
I love all Star Trek shows equally. TNG is pretty much burned into my mind, I have been watching a lot more DS9 and Voyager lately.
 

SirMossyBloke

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,855
Love it when new people get into this show. Far and away the best star trek show so far. Be warned about DS9, its a good show but the first 3 seasons are kinda dull. Just to set expectations.
 

Viriditas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
809
United States
As a Millennial of rural Appalachian upbringing, I credit Next Gen with helping me form a basic ethical framework in the near-total absence of other positive influences.

If that sounds hyperbolic, I hail from Fulton County, the PA county that voted most overwhelmingly for Trump (84%). I shudder to think what I might have become if it weren't for the saving graces of sci-fi, lol

Edit: I would have watched six seasons and a movie of my bestest bish Ro Laren.

I normally wear one long earring in my left ear, which is homage to both Ro and a friend of mine with microtia (she only wears one earring/splits pairs with friends).

tumblr_o3ei1o6kXF1trbh6do1_400.gif
 
Last edited:

softtack

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
Wish this show had aged better in terms of production. The stories and characters are great but it's an eyesore to look at sometimes.
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
I don't think it's as good as Deep Space Nine, but it is more accessible. Also, I actually really liked First Contact, but the rest of the TNG films are mediocre at best. Nemesis would be the worst big screen Star Trek if it wasn't for The Final Frontier.
 

devenger

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
2,734
Currently showing TNG to my 11 yr old. I'm cherry picking episodes, its been firstrun since I've seen some of them.

She already has a Troi impression: "I sense... pain! Darkness!" Data is her favorite but Riker is a close second.

Im 46, recently read that Patrick Stewart was 47 in the first season. I dont feel like Im Capn Picard old yet.
 

Deleted member 82

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,626
Oh hey, I got into Star Trek TNG a few weeks ago. Good timing. I'm currently watching Season 5. My very first Star Trek show! Star Trek was never that popular over here in Europe it seems.

It's hit and miss - can be quite boring at times -, but the cast is mostly likeable, and while there are a few contradictions and dated aspects when it comes to its politics, it's refreshing to find a show that's unabashedly optimistic, anti-war, anti-prejudice and pro-communication, with a deep thirst for mutual understanding and intellectual pursuits.

I'll probably start either DS9 or Picard once I'm done with TNG, but I know they're pretty different beasts.

Data is the freaking best.



 

Blackpuppy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,203
.. I guess dynamic lighting takes more time to set up?? Because it shouldn't really be that much more expensive

It actually does take more time and time is money... there are dozens of people being paid by the hour on these sets.

Lighting a set takes a lot of time. You've got to be careful to avoid excessive shadows and glare and it takes time to adjust all those parameters. Not to mention, if you want your characters to move around, you have to account for that too. They more than likely had a universal set up to light as much as possible uniformly, making little adjustments for close-ups. That way, they are able to simple move the camera and get the shot as quickly as possible.
With dynamic lighting, you're having to adjust the lights for every shot.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Ro Laren was supposed to be a main character of Deep Space Nine, but her actress pulled out, so instead you get third rate knock-off Ro Laren in that show instead.
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,161
Ro Laren was supposed to be a main character of Deep Space Nine, but her actress pulled out, so instead you get third rate knock-off Ro Laren in that show instead.

Michelle Forbes is great as Ro Laren but it was for the best. Kira is a much more interesting character in DS9 because her entire journey is contained in the show rather than interspersed in random TNG episodes.
 

TyrantII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,365
Boston
It actually does take more time and time is money... there are dozens of people being paid by the hour on these sets.

Lighting a set takes a lot of time. You've got to be careful to avoid excessive shadows and glare and it takes time to adjust all those parameters. Not to mention, if you want your characters to move around, you have to account for that too. They more than likely had a universal set up to light as much as possible uniformly, making little adjustments for close-ups. That way, they are able to simple move the camera and get the shot as quickly as possible.
With dynamic lighting, you're having to adjust the lights for every shot.

Don't forget too; 26 episodes with longer run times than current TV.

The turnaround on episodes was crazy. Lots of stories of early morning casting calls and late 3am work days.
 
OP
OP
thecowboypoet

thecowboypoet

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,011
Don't forget too; 26 episodes with longer run times than current TV.

The turnaround on episodes was crazy. Lots of stories of early morning casting calls and late 3am work days.
Yeah, the 26 episode seasons is a good point. That's probably why, besides the obvious advancements in visual fx, Picard and Discovery look so much better than TNG.
But I'd also argue they didn't do themselves any favours painting all the walls in the Enterprise-D greyish pink.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
Michelle Forbes is great as Ro Laren but it was for the best. Kira is a much more interesting character in DS9 because her entire journey is contained in the show rather than interspersed in random TNG episodes.
Michelle Forbes plays a bitch in everything. Kira had much more depth I doubt she'd have hit.
 

Jasonic

Member
Oct 30, 2017
29
I've been making my way through the show for the first time. I'm in the beginning of season 4 and the change in quality as the show goes on is apparent.
 

Deleted member 4413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,238
Oh man, DS9 is so good. Watch the entire thing, don't skip episodes on the first watch like with TNG. You may miss out on important character developments (DS9 was the most serialized of the TNG era treks and had the best character arcs).

Okay, maybe skip Move Along Home.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,976
I liked Pulaski a lot. If she had gotten a few more seasons I think she would have been a standout part of the show. They never really figured out what to do with Crusher outside of a couple of episodes
 

SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,414
TNG is probably my favorite show of all time, or at least the one I rewatch the most. As much as I love serialized television, Trek works best when it's episodic, as evidenced by how much DIS can drag at times (I say that as someone who loves DIS fwiw). It features many, if not most, of the greatest all-time episodes of Trek, and embodies the aspirational ideals of the franchise better than any of the other series. I'd be embarrassed to admit how many times I've watched it and TOS in their entirety.

Enjoy DS9. It strikes a nice balance of serial arcs and one-off episodes, and has the strongest character development of any Trek series. I think it leans too heavily into politics and is not as well-balanced as TNG in terms of actual sci fi, but it makes up for it by breaking things up with lighter episodes that actually nail the humor much better than any other Trek series.

VOY is worth watching too, even if it isn't as strong at TNG or DS9. But that's coming from a guy who even likes ENT so YMMV.
 

Uhtred

Alt Account
Banned
May 4, 2020
1,340
I just wish DS9 had been filmed instead of taped, so we could have a proper high resolution re-release. Its sad for that immense show to be stuck at 480p. Like, I literally feel like crying sometimes thinking about it, especially after seeing how the TNG comes alive in the modern 4K remaster.

TNG is still my fave trek, even though I think DS9 beats it in terms of overall number of high quality episodes. Mostly because it's the one I "grew up" with, it felt more like a part of my childhood than the later series, and I therefore just have a lot of nostalgia for the characters and stories. It also features Picard and Data, arguably two of the best characters ever in sci-fi. The only characters I didn't like, and this is probably controversial, were the god-like ones, like Q and Guinan. The characters themselves were some times ok, and interesting, but the episodes centered aroudn them tended to be silly and boring to me, kind of pointless.

DS9 is a very close second, like millimetres close, with voyager coming in third, but like by a country mile, and Enterprise severla miles after that, probably along side the new iteration of TrekTV shows. I never liked TOS, outside of the movies, which were mostly great, IMHO. It was just too campy, even for how campy more modern Trek can get. Watching some episodes of TOS feels like watching the 1960's Batman. Just not for me.
 
Last edited:

Facism

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Oh man, DS9 is so good. Watch the entire thing, don't skip episodes on the first watch like with TNG. You may miss out on important character developments (DS9 was the most serialized of the TNG era treks and had the best character arcs).

Okay, maybe skip Move Along Home.

lol I always skip that and the episode with feral Molly.
 

tuffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,513
I just wish DS9 had been filmed instead of taped, so we could have a proper high resolution re-release. Its sad for that immense show to be stuck at 480p. Like, I literally feel like crying sometimes thinking about it, especially after seeing how the TNG comes alive in the modern 4K remaster.
DS9 was shot on film and finished up on tape just like TNG was. It's possible to rebuild the series in HD, but that would require a lot of man-hours of digging through archives and piecing together a bunch of film all over again. Paramount simply doesn't think it's worth it, and that's very unfortunate.
 

Uhtred

Alt Account
Banned
May 4, 2020
1,340
DS9 was shot on film and finished up on tape just like TNG was. It's possible to rebuild the series in HD, but that would require a lot of man-hours of digging through archives and piecing together a bunch of film all over again. Paramount simply doesn't think it's worth it, and that's very unfortunate.

Oh shit it was?

Oh man, come on, it's gotta be worth it. I wonder how much it would cost to do? I guess the 3D stuff would have ot be redone? It's so secondary to the actual meat of the show though, I'd say leave it as it was.

Fuck it, put it on their crappy star trek streaming paltform and I'll be there day one. I think a LOT of trekdom would be there day one.
 

tryagainlater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,251
I was never much into space sci-fi stuff but I decided to try watching Star Trek at the start of the year since all the episodes are on Netflix. Watched through the original series and loved it. Movie 1, 2, 4 and 6 were also great. Animated series was a bit boring but there isn't much of it.

On S7 of TNG and damn, I love this show. Inititially I was finding it difficult to warm to the new crew after liking the original crew so much but they were very much end up being much more developed over the course of 7 seasons. It's hard to pick a favourite episode although the episode that made me the most emotional seems to be the fan favourite of the series. So many wonderful 2-parter episodes too.
 

Kmonk

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,695
US
Great thread - and perfect timing! I recently started a full rewatch, after completing Picard season 1.

It's as great as I remember, and I actually enjoy the campiness more than when I was a kid. Just rewatched the first Barclay episode and LOLOLOL
 

Slappy White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,208
I'm watching TNG right now. I saw occasional episodes over the years but never gave it a complete proper watching. I'm halfway through season one and it's rough in some spots but I'm still enjoying it quite a bit and I understand that it gets a lot better in later seasons. All of the actors and characters are great so far.
 
OP
OP
thecowboypoet

thecowboypoet

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,011
Great thread - and perfect timing! I recently started a full rewatch, after completing Picard season 1.

It's as great as I remember, and I actually enjoy the campiness more than when I was a kid. Just rewatched the first Barclay episode and LOLOLOL
I like Barclay a lot! Though in his first episode it was a little weird how much Riker and Geordie seemed to have it out for the guy.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
The show moving on from interesting things quickly was so frustrating.

"Hey we found a giant Dyson Sphere with an artificial sun inside of it, quite neat. Let's move on!"

"What? Starfleet was infiltrated and completely taken over by neck worms! We better never talk about this ever again and ignore the repercussions with extreme prejudice."

"There is a younger version of Commander Riker out there? I hope he stays out of our way forever and if he ever shows up again it better be as a really contrived way to let Jonathan Frakes cameo on DS9 without having to account for it on TNG."
 

tuffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,513
The show moving on from interesting things quickly was so frustrating.
But it says right in the opening that its continuing mission is to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no one has gone before.

Going back and dealing with the repercussions of all the stuff is someone else's department.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
But it says right in the opening that its continuing mission is to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no one has gone before.

Going back and dealing with the repercussions of all the stuff is someone else's department.
That's how tv shows were written back then. The point was all the new discoveries and ideas, not the repercussions.

I feel like a repeated line in the show was alerting starfleet so they could send other ships to further investigate or study stuff they ran into.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
As for DS9 HD, aside from the difficulty in recreating all the special effects that were done in 3D, the space battles were so awful I'd want them reimagined. No more unlimited galaxy class starships, actual formations, fucking shields... it's practically something that'd be better accomplished by fans.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
But it says right in the opening that its continuing mission is to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, and to boldly go where no one has gone before.

Going back and dealing with the repercussions of all the stuff is someone else's department.

New CBS All Access show in 3...2...1
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,453
"What? Starfleet was infiltrated and completely taken over by neck worms! We better never talk about this ever again and ignore the repercussions with extreme prejudice."
To be fair that was actually planned to be the start of an arc, they were supposed to be the borg (an insectoid species at that point), the signal they send at the end of that episode led to the destruction of the neutral zone outposts in the season finale. Season 2 would have started with a serialized arc of the federation and the romulans working together and would have led to the proper introduction of the borg but the writers strike between seasons 1 and 2 scuttled those plans. The borg were then redeveloped as cyborg partially because it was easier to make them look good on a tv budget and the arc season 1 set up was largely forgotten.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
If we're talking dumb things star trek did regarding dangling themes...

Star Trek Picard spoilers:

How the hell does a show which centers around both Hugh and Data's death not have a single instance of Giordi??
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
Geordie was probably preoccupied with his hilariously sad hologram romance. In his holodeck world he can be weird and awkward towards all of his old friends and make believe lovers no matter their marital status or plane of existence.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
Its used to fantastic effect in First Contact, even if brief. I thought it was annoying in Generations.
Hard disagree.They did two things with the emotion chip: Gave the Data the ability to turn it off, undermining its point; Gave him a Geordi's VISOR like weakness that sufficiently a advanced being could exploit.

Those are like, the last two things I want from that thing.
 
May 7, 2020
170
Hard disagree.They did two things with the emotion chip: Gave the Data the ability to turn it off, undermining its point; Gave him a Geordi's VISOR like weakness that sufficiently a advanced being could exploit.

Those are like, the last two things I want from that thing.
Being able to turn it off whilst he was still learning to use it made sense to me, I also thought it worked as lighthearted moment in such a serious situation.

I have no idea what you mean with the second one there.