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Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Unvote
My reads are fucking trash this game.

So speaking of dissonance with fep,

vote:Sorian

going through all those pages and pages and pages of Monkey and Sorian arguing it became clearer and clearer that i dont think he was arguing in particularly good faith. Specifically it felt like he was arguing for the sake of keeping the argument going rather than actually trying to communicate/prove his myriad points.

This going at Monkey for so long because if there is anyone here that has a real proclivity for argumentation its Monkey, so by constantly answering just enough of her needling so as to be engaging in the argument, but circling around enough of every addressed point just enough that he knew monkey would never let it go.

Basically i know Sorian is better at mafia than that, better at arguing than that, and there is no way it was coincidence that he had to spend 8 pages basically arguing the same couple of points.

The fact that B-Dubs so little this day phase i literally dont remember any of it sure dont help.
(And before anyone trying some "oh but neither have you" BS at that last point you can go step on a lego).
This is part of why I butted heads with Sorian earlier. He doesn't seem interested in actually working through anything, more so he wants to take a stance (Tybro town! Gossip scum!) and just go in circles with it. Even aftering pinging Bae to get her perspective on the interactions with said gossips he isn't interested in that - he reached a conclusion from minute one and that's enough for him.

I already responded this clearly was a reactionary move, but...uh...body trail.

*jazz hands*

I still believe the flip will give us results and truth we need tho
And what do you feel would be learned if you're just completely off the mark and they are in fact just town?

AbsoluteFat is what you get when you don't do TyBro. Otherwise you get Abs4All.
Dead
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
So the Bae conspiracy goes something like this:

Bae/malus doubled down on the fake claim from Mafiera - because who would ever doubt it, right, after the initial "no way!" - and then faked a green check on Ab/Fat, because no one would ever fake a green check on a scummate.

Alternate: all of the above except the fake green check is on a town team, which is more standard.

So there are actually several points in favor of this theory:
  • The claim was a save to avoid d1 kill
  • Bae was similarly cagey as in Mafiera, slowly unspooling bits of the claim and result
  • Bae has been a nonpresence with regard to reads and other contributions
  • Bae for some reason revealed they were one-shot, which removes even the reason to kill confirmed town until mid-late game, since they aren't doing much
  • malus same until the last 12 hours or so
  • If we are moving with the Ab-also-scum version, he's also a nonentity this phase.
  • Fran was pretty down on Bae's claim and then was NKed, which would make sense in this world because if Fran gets an idea in his head, he's not letting go.
Then Flux says: all the dead people so far were on the Tybro vote! (to complicate: all the other involved parties in this conspiracy were on the Katsune vote).

If the full version is true, then probably 2/3 at least of scum stacked on Katsune. In this scenario, Kyan (and thus donna) would probably also be scum and that would be Kyan's freeze; he knew it would look bad if he could avoid a tie but didn't but he didn't want to full stack on Katsune. donna would stay behind on PB and malus to help sell it/hide.

I think this is all viable. It's also a big reach. It's not a risk for reward; it's risking outing the entire scum team if any one piece flips scum. If the Kyan/donna addition is wrong, then it still risks outing two scum teams. (My guess is 3-4 or 3 and a neutral).

I don't think I buy it. I think:

Just PB+malus scum is more likely than PB+malus+Ty(Fat)bro, though if all four are scum the chances of Kyan+donna also rise. But I think that latter is a wild outlier scenario. It's not unheard of for the team to fuck up on that scale, but it would be something to see.

I would also think if they were going to end up moving as a big block even a little on purpose, they wouldn't have removed Katsune. I think they'd have targeted someone else. So that kinda sticks for me.

So I don't think this is the case, really - but I wanted to write it all out since there are so many people who seem to be entertaining it, at least a little, because hell, we might as well.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,403
São Paulo, Brazil
Read over his posts and how it goes counter to how he usually plays. Either he has power role and doesnt want to be targetted as he thinks its too powerful and can be useful to town later, OR he's a neutral.

I'm giving him benefit of doubt and assuming he got a big role.
Having people insist on trying to read me through my activity these past two games when I've made it perfectly clear that I simply don't have the same time to play that I used to is so damn boring.

I'm glad you found a reason to give me the benefit of the doubt at least, I guess.

AbsoluteFat is what you get when you don't do TyBro. Otherwise you get Abs4All.
Holy shit.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Addendum:
I've liked malus since he's come back but it's hard to get a strong fix on him.
I would like to see more from Pirate Bae about the game, reads, etc - and I would like to echo that I don't think the gossips should be outed or even hinted at or breadcrumbed or anything, but it would be nice to get a sense of that more otherwise. Was the chat very active? Did y'all talk about anything else, like reads on others? Why do you think they are town?
I'd also like to hear from absolutbro, especially now that you have a partner again, and from Fat4all on walking in as a potential green check.

Let me reiterate: I think this is all tinfoil hat town. It's possible, but unlikely. But what else am I going to do, highlight all the snarky, negative adjectives in Sorian's bigger post to demonstrate his tactics further? yawn

let's get conspiracy wild and check out the furniture in the rabbit hole
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,403
São Paulo, Brazil
Still not sure where I'm going to park my vote today, but I've added Flux/Brazil to my lean scum list.

If defensive/aggressive behavior is anything to go on:

And about scaling back once suspicion was cast?

I called Flux out with my most direct post yet, finding it odd that he would find someone scummy because they wanted to defend themselves against vague scum reads. Flux never responded to me.
So even from your perspective within this read, we're acting like a flipped townie.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Good morning, just got caught up.

Main thing that stuck out to me was that Dubs read list, I think Geno made some pretty good points breaking that thing down, it was pretty weird. I think I can see the case for Scum Dubs.
Still not sure where I'm going to park my vote today, but I've added Flux/Brazil to my lean scum list.




If defensive/aggressive behavior is anything to go on:



And about scaling back once suspicion was cast?



I called Flux out with my most direct post yet, finding it odd that he would find someone scummy because they wanted to defend themselves against vague scum reads. Flux never responded to me.
How did you feel about Brazil's posts after that one though, where he came in with some bigger posts and gave a lot of thoughts/reads? That was what made me feel better about him.
 
OP
OP
The Bear

The Bear

Forest Animal
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,194
==== DAY 2 VOTES ====
Day Start

B-Dubs & Sorian (6 votes)
Dr. Monkey - #2,456
Stuart444 - #1,860
Terraforce - #1,963
SkyOdin - #2,421
TheChuggernaut - #2,436
Stantastic - #2,635 #2,637
Stantastic - #2,637

Stuart444 & Dr. Monkey (2 votes)
Geno - #1,782 #2,694
Sorian - #1,826 #2,134
Sorian - #2,257
FluxWaveZ - #2,650

Ty4on & absolutbro (2 votes)
CoolestSpot - #2,612 #2,632
CoolestSpot - #2,632 (Double)
Natiko - #1,778 #2,089

Pirate Bae & malus (1 votes)
rac - #2,255

Natiko & Terraforce (1 votes)
Fantomas - #1,995

Reki & Xbro (0 votes)
Sorian - #2,134 #2,257

CoolestSpot & Lone_Prodigy (0 votes)
Stuart444 - #1,787 #1,860
Natiko - #2,387 #2,744

Not voting: Geno, Xbro, Lone_Prodigy, B-Dubs, empressdonna, flatearthpandas, Reki, absolutbro, Vincent Alexander, Fat4All, Kyanrute, Brazil, Funky Dude Sparks, Verelios, Apollo, Pirate Bae, Zippedpinhead, malus, Natiko

Post Counts:
Stuart444: 118 Dr. Monkey: 94 Sorian: 91 Fantomas: 71 CoolestSpot: 55 Terraforce: 53 Natiko: 48 TheChuggernaut: 38 Z-Beat: 32 Pirate Bae: 30 FluxWaveZ: 28 rac: 28 Brazil: 27 Kyanrute: 26 Geno: 22 SkyOdin: 21 Vincent Alexander: 21 Verelios: 20 flatearthpandas: 19 Stantastic: 18 Funky Dude Sparks: 16 absolutbro: 15 empressdonna: 14 B-Dubs: 14 Xbro: 9 malus: 9 Reki: 8 Fat4All: 8 Zippedpinhead: 8 Apollo: 7

Current Countdown:
kmqpad9ej2



Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Unvote
My reads are fucking trash this game.


This is part of why I butted heads with Sorian earlier. He doesn't seem interested in actually working through anything, more so he wants to take a stance (Tybro town! Gossip scum!) and just go in circles with it. Even aftering pinging Bae to get her perspective on the interactions with said gossips he isn't interested in that - he reached a conclusion from minute one and that's enough for him.


And what do you feel would be learned if you're just completely off the mark and they are in fact just town?


Dead

Are you saying I pinged Bae to get her perspective on the gossips or just the thread in general has? I don't really care what Bae thinks about the gossips since it seems her stance is based on her interactions and that makes her more compromised if anything since she can't actually analyze it for what it is. So if you mean my thread in general, ok sure. If you meant I asked, this post is a lie and a weird dig.

Also, yes, I don't need to work through obvious shit, AbsolutFat and Dr. Stu's alignments are clear as day as are the gossips alignment. My other reads need more working through but why bother when I have a scum read right there and I can see how my other reads react to that scum read?
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Lol this thread is wild

"Dubs is obviously scum, he won't even give reads"

*gives reads*

"OMG, those reads are trash, obviously scum."

👍

This is why I'd rather you just lynch us already, all you're doing is circling the drain, you don't give a shit what we have to say and you'll forget it all when we're dead anyway. Monkey will pay some terrible lip service, you still won't kill her until like day 5.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Lol this thread is wild

"Dubs is obviously scum, he won't even give reads"

*gives reads*

"OMG, those reads are trash, obviously scum."

👍

This is why I'd rather you just lynch us already, all you're doing is circling the drain, you don't give a shit what we have to say and you'll forget it all when we're dead anyway. Monkey will pay some terrible lip service, you still won't kill her until like day 5.
abloo bloo bloo to you too, sir
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,403
São Paulo, Brazil
Lol this thread is wild

"Dubs is obviously scum, he won't even give reads"

*gives reads*

"OMG, those reads are trash, obviously scum."

👍

This is why I'd rather you just lynch us already, all you're doing is circling the drain, you don't give a shit what we have to say and you'll forget it all when we're dead anyway. Monkey will pay some terrible lip service, you still won't kill her until like day 5.
abloo bloo bloo to you too, sir
Are the 4 of you literally the same person?

Like, not even game-wise, but actually IRL.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Are you saying I pinged Bae to get her perspective on the gossips or just the thread in general has? I don't really care what Bae thinks about the gossips since it seems her stance is based on her interactions and that makes her more compromised if anything since she can't actually analyze it for what it is. So if you mean my thread in general, ok sure. If you meant I asked, this post is a lie and a weird dig.

Also, yes, I don't need to work through obvious shit, AbsolutFat and Dr. Stu's alignments are clear as day as are the gossips alignment. My other reads need more working through but why bother when I have a scum read right there and I can see how my other reads react to that scum read?
I pinged Bae to elaborate on if the gossips in any way tried to influence what she did with her check. She said explained they did not. You don't care, even though it conflicts with your theory. You've not once said anything remotely convincing as to why your theory is more likely, instead you just attack anyone that disagrees.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,403
São Paulo, Brazil
Are you saying I pinged Bae to get her perspective on the gossips or just the thread in general has? I don't really care what Bae thinks about the gossips since it seems her stance is based on her interactions and that makes her more compromised if anything since she can't actually analyze it for what it is. So if you mean my thread in general, ok sure. If you meant I asked, this post is a lie and a weird dig.

Also, yes, I don't need to work through obvious shit, AbsolutFat and Dr. Stu's alignments are clear as day as are the gossips alignment. My other reads need more working through but why bother when I have a scum read right there and I can see how my other reads react to that scum read?
See, I'm still waiting to her from Bae on why she's townreading the thieves. She just dropped that multiple times but hasn't come back to explain it yet.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I pinged Bae to elaborate on if the gossips in any way tried to influence what she did with her check. She said explained they did not. You don't care, even though it conflicts with your theory. You've not once said anything remotely convincing as to why your theory is more likely, instead you just attack anyone that disagrees.

Why does that matter and how does it conflict with my theory? She reported to them that malus was checking AB and Ty, why would they need to influence her if they are town?
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Why does that matter and how does it conflict with my theory? She reported to them that malus was checking AB and Ty, why would they need to influence her if they are town?

I played thebpronoun game on that last sentence. "Why would the gossips need to influence Bae if AB/Ty are town"
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Yeah, I pinged Bae last night for her read list but she hasn't been back yet, I would still really like to see where her reads are at on the day here because I don't think she's given many yet.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,736
Good morning, just got caught up.

Main thing that stuck out to me was that Dubs read list, I think Geno made some pretty good points breaking that thing down, it was pretty weird. I think I can see the case for Scum Dubs.

How did you feel about Brazil's posts after that one though, where he came in with some bigger posts and gave a lot of thoughts/reads? That was what made me feel better about him.
Of the pair, Brazil looks more town than Flux. I thought Brazil had some good observations, and if not for Brazil, I'd be more than just leaning scum on them at the moment. It's the Flux piece that is weighing the boat down. I have nothing concrete, but in a game where I've had no solid reads on scum, I have to at least voice my suspicions when I finally get them.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Why does that matter and how does it conflict with my theory? She reported to them that malus was checking AB and Ty, why would they need to influence her if they are town?
Because your reasoning was the role had to be scum because only scum would target a soft claimed investigator in order to interfere with the check. Nothing we have heard from Bae sounds like a team that did anything of the sort, in fact repeatedly it sounds more like they were skeptical of Bae herself as opposed to being concerned with what she would do with the check.
 

absolutbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,628
I'm catching up. Work decided to go insane today. i tried explaining I need to scum hunt, but people just looked at me funny. also holy shit you guys added 300+ posts since I checked in last night wtf
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Because your reasoning was the role had to be scum because only scum would target a soft claimed investigator in order to interfere with the check. Nothing we have heard from Bae sounds like a team that did anything of the sort, in fact repeatedly it sounds more like they were skeptical of Bae herself as opposed to being concerned with what she would do with the check.

The interference was breaking down their communication, it is inherent to the role action they performed, the gossips didn't also have to say anything if there was no reason to. If you hear that the cop isn't red checking your teammate, you shut the fuck up, you don't double down and try to also steer them to a "better" green check somewhere. AB/Ty was probably an easy mislynch but better to remove that from the table than to push for no reason. This is not rocket science, I know you understand this.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
A part of me expects L_P to have one post and it's a double vote. That seems appropriate for him.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
The interference was breaking down their communication, it is inherent to the role action they performed, the gossips didn't also have to say anything if there was no reason to. If you hear that the cop isn't red checking your teammate, you shut the fuck up, you don't double down and try to also steer them to a "better" green check somewhere. AB/Ty was probably an easy mislynch but better to remove that from the table than to push for no reason. This is not rocket science, I know you understand this.
I do, and I think you're wrong. I think it is more likely that a town role would pull in someone they think is scummy to see if they can trip them up on their claim - hence why they asked about the role as opposed to trying to influence the check. I'm honestly flabbergasted as to why you can't see this. I didn't know you suddenly had the utmost faith in town to always make the most beneficial choices. I also don't think the risk vs. reward is nearly enough to make it a beneficial role for scum. I think the message sending role would be more likely to be the scum one as it keeps the identity of the senders hidden.
 

rac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,110
Also I don't believe shit out of pirate bae's mouth and whole thing screams off with "Green check don't ask questions of me"
..and I don't want to fuck up and have a green check that told me to do otherwise whole time...but chole sucks in her franchise...but also...it just seems OFF

if you don't believe pirate why are you not voting there?

do you think scum malus/bae gave a fake green check to their scum partner ty4on?
 

absolutbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,628
Okay, I admit to skimming the last 50 or so posts but I'm as caught up as I get. I will likely not be around EoD because (again), it's right in the middle of my commute. (Okay, it's towards the end of my commute, but it's the part where I'm driving.)

So, I feel better about Brazil and FluxWaveZ as a boat, more for Brazil than Flux. Lack of activity from a pair I mostly experienced as high posters made me suspicious, but I cannot argue Brazil's posts lately are both plenty and really good. Sorry Brazil. Flux has a few I side-eyed, but not enough to pull the boat down as a whole.

Coolest has a double (1.5?) vote, but apparently can't move it? Sure, why not.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I do, and I think you're wrong. I think it is more likely that a town role would pull in someone they think is scummy to see if they can trip them up on their claim - hence why they asked about the role as opposed to trying to influence the check. I'm honestly flabbergasted as to why you can't see this. I didn't know you suddenly had the utmost faith in town to always make the most beneficial choices. I also don't think the risk vs. reward is nearly enough to make it a beneficial role for scum. I think the message sending role would be more likely to be the scum one as it keeps the identity of the senders hidden.

So 1) I forgot the dumb message thing was even a thing. I think that one is more likely to be town actually because message senders/fruit vendors/similar roles are worthless. We've had scum be a message sender before but typically you throw that on a townie just to add something to the game.
2) No, I have very little faith in this game that town is doing anything right but the actual role itself independent of what it's done already sounds scum on its face, add in its target and it doesn't help. Even shit town would probably realize why splitting out a couple who can investigate would be bad.
3) I don't think there is any risk to scum making this move. What's the negative? Bae knows the identity of who the gossips are? Ok? It doesn't take a genius to know a few things will happen no matter what. People will argue over the role is town or scum and lines will split mostly evenly and it being early days, anyone (Bae in this case) is going to err on the side of keeping identities safe so that scum doesn't know about PRs because this community is trained to think any PR talk before like day 4 is bad.
 

Xbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,105
If the role was a scum role I doubt Bae would be able to see who held the role. Seems more like they would be anonymous.

Pirate Bae did you ever confirm if you could see their chat prior to you joining?
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Okay, I admit to skimming the last 50 or so posts but I'm as caught up as I get. I will likely not be around EoD because (again), it's right in the middle of my commute. (Okay, it's towards the end of my commute, but it's the part where I'm driving.)

So, I feel better about Brazil and FluxWaveZ as a boat, more for Brazil than Flux. Lack of activity from a pair I mostly experienced as high posters made me suspicious, but I cannot argue Brazil's posts lately are both plenty and really good. Sorry Brazil. Flux has a few I side-eyed, but not enough to pull the boat down as a whole.

Coolest has a double (1.5?) vote, but apparently can't move it? Sure, why not.

Did he explicitly say he can't move it? I just saw him say it was one-shot, that typically means that once you choose a day to use it, it's active that whole day no matter where you love it to.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
If the role was a scum role I doubt Bae would be able to see who held the role. Seems more like they would be anonymous.

Pirate Bae did you ever confirm if you could see their chat prior to you joining?

We've had scum gossips before, they don't get secret accounts to be gossips. Like yeah, if it was anonymous then it would be a dead giveaway they were scum but not being anonymous doesn't make the opposite automatically true.
 

absolutbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,628
Did he explicitly say he can't move it? I just saw him say it was one-shot, that typically means that once you choose a day to use it, it's active that whole day no matter where you love it to.
Maybe?

One shot power, plus Sorian is gonna get lynched soon enough it seems on their own

ALSO MY READS DIDNT POST BEFORE BED FUCK THIS GAME

This is in response to "Why not use it on Sorian?", which I took as "I already used it on someone else". Maybe I misunderstood? Maybe Coolest also misunderstood?
 

Xbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,105
We've had scum gossips before, they don't get secret accounts to be gossips. Like yeah, if it was anonymous then it would be a dead giveaway they were scum but not being anonymous doesn't make the opposite automatically true.
I'm actually liking a lot of your arguments. I think more needs to be cleared up. I remember you being the one to ask Bae my question earlier. Did you receive an answer?