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Loki revealed to be the first openly bisexual character in the Marvel Cinematic Universe
- Thread starter ZeoVGM
- Start date
I think DC wrote Poison Ivy as bi as well? So its like, good, but also seems like usually crazy murderous villains or morally dubious tricksters but its a start.
poison ivy is bisexual in the Harley Quinn cartoon. Not really sure elsewhere. It's not explicit like it is in that. Harley is as well, for that matter.
Tricksters across basically every human mythology tend to be D. All of the Above.
Honestly I agree with you. It's just that given Disney's history there's a part of me that's always like "the lowkey nature of this is less a choice and more the only way they want to do it so people can pretend it's not there." So I always celebrate but sort not really at the same time if that makes sense.
I'm always torn between every queer character mattering and feeling upset when it feels like companies are trying to toe the line between showing enough representation to get our support but not enough to offend homophobes. But I know what you mean and I agree with it, it's just hard not to feel cynical sometimes you know :/
I'm genuinely happy about this but going into the mythological background of this character it would be extremely questionable if they did NOT do this and decided to ignore a huge part of what makes Loki who they are.
I think Marvel needs to really step it the fuck up with queer rep in their more grounded characters.
I think Marvel needs to really step it the fuck up with queer rep in their more grounded characters.
I hear you, but this still continues a pattern of Marvel's/Disney's, of taking a "checkbox" approach to representation, where the mildest and most passing forms (which are also the most easily erased for certain overseas markets) are always the ones chosen. As long as they check that box, no matter how meekly they do it, they get those headlines and brownie points, so why bother doing more?
Then again, who knows? Maybe they get super into his sexuality later on in Loki and make me eat my words.
But I doubt it.
Seriously.
I am not saying small steps are worthless or that I would rather if Loki was not bi.
But Marvel have still to have two guys kiss on screen, in 2021, after lord knows how many hours of entertainment.
And I'm picking two guys kissing here because this is the type of shit that will get conservatives actually angry at them and might hurt their bottom line.
So they do stuff that is just enough to get good press but not enough to get conservatives organizing a boycott campaigns.
And like I get it, they are a for profit venture after all and I lower my expectation from them appropriately, but I really think that overall they get too much praise for their stance on these issues, which I think have been pretty cynical.
I mean to be fair, this is more than the bare minimum already.
When the Loki ad described the character as gender fluid, The anti-PC crowd loss their shit, despite the character being based on a gender-fluid Norse diety. I bet they're irrationally losing their shit over this. Lol.
Anyway, this is baby steps for Marvel, but I'm glad they seem to be moving towards the right direction. They could have did Loki like the did Valkyrie.
Anyway, this is baby steps for Marvel, but I'm glad they seem to be moving towards the right direction. They could have did Loki like the did Valkyrie.
Do they actually get too much praise? Where? Here or overall? Feels like there's more talk here about how it's not good enough than actual praise. That's with any of these types of threads.
I'm happy there is bi representation but I'm personally excited about the trans subtext with Slyvie.
I'm happy there is bi representation but I'm personally excited about the trans subtext with Slyvie.
Look I know shit from big companies ain't ever for anyone's benefit, like Sonic the Hedgehog says, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
What I am trying to enunciate is that a Queer character going "oh yeah I'm Queer" and leaving it at that? That's still a Queer character. That's still a real way we can deal with our sexuality. Queer characters can exist in stories that aren't openly, explicitly about them being Queer.
I am exhausted with searching for perfect Queer characters, because a character having to be as many Queer experiences as possible is way more of a fucking checklist. If this is how Loki will deal with his sexuality then I am honest to god fine with it, because I shouldn't need this one bisexual dude to carry the weight of bisexual representation by himself.
And that's fine, but folks need to be telling Disney this. Not just each other.
Because we all know damn well Disney already has a list of what sexualities and depictions or sexualities are valid — and which ones aren't.
I'm happy but it's literally one line that could be missed quickly. I feel like they need to just commit, make it known. It's sad that we make a huge deal over something that should be implemented already naturally in today's time but this is the reality we get excited over a single line and not a bigger scene. :(
Being happy for some representation and being unsatisfied with the extent of it both seem like reasonable reactions.
I mean, I'm not saying he's not a queer character. End of the day as a bisexual dude seeing a bisexual dude on tv, especially one of my favorite characters, is like so rad. But I don't think being happy and still not being fully into it have to be mutually exclusive. I'm not really searching for a perfect character, but I don't think there's anything wrong with going "Hey, rad. Have my reservations about it, but still, happy it happened."
They could have easily continued out without any mention of this, but they did, and I think that is a good first step. Was it calculated to premier during pride month? I'm sure it was, but again, it's a step forward. Not enough, but a step.
Hey, small as it is, it definitely felt like a nice scene, and a little better than something like Le Fou, or those two ladies in Rise of Skywalker.
Plus the lighting was great too in that moment.
Plus the lighting was great too in that moment.
You keep referring to the character as though it's an actual person we're burdening. This character can be absolutely anything the creators want it to be, and Marvel/Disney have a very specific set of rules for what a queer character can and cannot be.
I included that tweet from Alex Hirsch not to underline that Disney has ulterior motives, or that they aren't allies, but to make it explicitly clear that they are actually, if anything, our adversaries. They censor substantial, undeniable representation and replace it with as close to nothing as they can.
I'm not asking for perfect representation. Hell, I'm not really asking for anything other than for people to stop doing Disney's PR work for them.
Right. It's not like Disney is bringing us a broad spectrum of representation and people are upset that some of it is low key. It's that it's all low key all the time.
It seems LGBT is the only thing Marvel won't try to explore in an actual movie or TV show. It makes you wonder why that is when they have movies like Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Shang Chi, and Ms Marvel. There has to be something happening at Disney/Marvel that is shutting down any kind of show or movie that is thematically tied to the LGBT community. They obviously know people criticize Disney/Marvel and want one because they do these small gestures and pat themselves on the back. Like, they are obviously not against certain movies leaning more towards a certain audience.
I am not giving them a pass. I am just happy there is ONE bi man out there on TV. Rain elsewhere!
Someone LGBT please correct me if I misspeak, but the way I see it it's not the drop that's significant but that it's Loki that's significant. Like, if they pulled this line with Mobius, sure, it's cool, definitely interesting for an Owen Wilson character, but otherwise who gives a shit. But it's Loki, one of the most major characters of the MCU and one I imagine (and hope) will continue to be major for the foreseeable future. And he (emphasis he, because he's chatting with an alternate universe version of himself) pretty unambiguously confirms he's bi. Yes, it's certainly not enough on its own, the MCU can certainly do a lot more, but the bi community officially getting to claim him is still a significant win even if he's not "proving his credentials".
The MCU's future has me cautiously optimistic on this front. We're getting America Chavez, the lesbian daughter of lesbian mothers, and we're getting Kate Bishop, who as of late has been depicted more bi. We've gotten Billy Maximoff, the biggest gay hero in the Marvel canon, and we're most likely getting him and his brother Tommy (who's also gay) back, and if you're focusing on Billy you have to pull in Teddy as well. And who knows, there's always the chance Phastos in Eternals actually isn't the complete joke everyone's expecting him to be (yes I know it got leaked, no I don't want to know about it yet).
The MCU's future has me cautiously optimistic on this front. We're getting America Chavez, the lesbian daughter of lesbian mothers, and we're getting Kate Bishop, who as of late has been depicted more bi. We've gotten Billy Maximoff, the biggest gay hero in the Marvel canon, and we're most likely getting him and his brother Tommy (who's also gay) back, and if you're focusing on Billy you have to pull in Teddy as well. And who knows, there's always the chance Phastos in Eternals actually isn't the complete joke everyone's expecting him to be (yes I know it got leaked, no I don't want to know about it yet).
So he was asked "Want-to-be Princesses? Or another Prince?"
"A bit of both" was their reply.
Since Balder isn't in the MCU... Thor?
"A bit of both" was their reply.
Since Balder isn't in the MCU... Thor?
It was neither subtle nor a hint.
It's fine if you don't want to congratulate them but don't make it sound like this is less than what is actually is.
Thor? As in his brother Thor?
I loved that scene too, while recognizing that it was a small and insufficient step in the much larger project of fully normalizing LGBTQIA+ people and relstionships in the MCU.I'm just saying, they did this before.
What other Princes of Asgard do you know?
I'll repeat. She asked "Would be Princesses" and "Other Princes"
When Thor 1 started their were only two Princes of Asgard, and Loki was one of them.
Well they keep bringing up every episode that Loki is adopted 🤷‍♂️
There are "the nine worlds," as repeatedly stated in Thor 1, and princes among many kingdoms on them. Thor is assuredly not the only prince Loki has ever met.
Your assessment is sound. Loki is not a throwaway character, hence why some of us acknowledge this is a promising first step (and we're all aware that this is a property in the hands of a major corporation; despite what some straight people here apparently think, Queer folks are wise enough to keep our positive feelings from rocketing into wild, unbound naivete). Beyond that, though, there will be differing levels of enthusiasm among bi fans. Some bi fans will adore the fact this is Loki we're talking about. Some bi fans will wish that the MCU had done a better job positioning a bisexual hero, someone more noble and admirable. Some bi fans won't feel any enthusiasm due to Marvel's/Disney's track record. All of these thoughts are valid.
On this point, I will caution you. Bisexual people are regularly harassed in real life by people who, upon learning we are bi, insist we must "prove" that we are bi. There are a lot of weirdos who try to pressure bi folks into
*demonstrating/performing* our bisexuality - flirting, kissing, etc. They usually ask intrusive questions about past relationships and sex. These same assholes are often quick to get angry when they learn their preconceived notions account for only a fraction of bi folks; they challenge or condescend to bisexual people who are not attracted to men and women equally, or to bisexual people who are attracted to non-binary individuals, for example.
Don't get me wrong; I know you didn't mean any harm by your statement. It's just that media depictions of bisexuality have typically suffered from a lack of input from bisexuals, especially when a large number of (straight) people have convinced themselves that the "effective" depiction of a bi person is someone who goes around making out with/shagging everyone with a pulse. Granted, this is a Disney+ show, so that's a non-factor here, but in general, that's been a problem.
Crazy Ex Girlfriend was praised years ago for its handling of a story of a man figuring out he is bisexual. They even made a song.
So was this edited in other countries like Russia for example? Really wondering because this is very small in the grandeur scheme of things and I think Disney/Marvel is getting way too much credit.
If Loki marries someone, since he isn't a king, they become a princess or prince. Any serious suitor = would-be-princess-or-prince
Probably. Tessa Thompson has stated that there was supposed to be confirmation in Thor Ragnarok that Valkyrie was bi, but the scene didn't make it in the movie.
There is no D+ in most of the countries they'd get pressured to edit it for (China, Russia).
In mythology Loki was horsesexual. I don't think they would ever do that in MCU. But yes it's a little step and diversity should be something that must be in a piece of media like the MCU it shouldn't be praised especially since they had so much time to do it.
100% agreed.
I'm sick of stuff being hinted at or low-key, mostly just to make it safe for China.
I'm pretty sure that's accurate to the mythology, call me when they have him get fucked by a horse as a female horse
Yeah call me when that's episode 5. They haven't gone far enough
You ever notice how basically all of marvel's inclusion is in the form of one voice line that can easily be dubbed over to something else in other markets?
Yeah call me when that's episode 5. They haven't gone far enough
You ever notice how basically all of marvel's inclusion is in the form of one voice line that can easily be dubbed over to something else in other markets?
Meh, I'm over patting companies on the back for this stuff in 2021. That's why Disney constantly having their "first gay character" is fucking annoying.
That said, bisexual representation is still good and needed.
That said, bisexual representation is still good and needed.