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Living in country where being a left and socialist/Communist is a word you should never spoke
- Thread starter fertygo
- Start date
OP
OP
I would expect you all there wont risk got killed on the street with this statement at least
I can see why communist is something people are afraid of considering history. But socialism lol, everyone in this country is pays into a socialist system.
OP
OP
I can imagine its like that too in most of south america I guess.
Both.
But its definitely can kill me. The ironic thing is the government wont execute me, but the stigma in the society is too strong.
I was watching some american christian channel where they are in these big halls and sing gospel. They had mostly really american southern accents. And one of these pastors, who were mostly white, started preaching and he literally said that socialisn is going to destroy the US. He talked about how god has given them the task of fighting against communists in america.
The whole time I was just left speechless. How far did all this propaganda penetrate american culture for a pastor to talk about socialism and the good of capitalism in the fucking church? It's insane. That's when I knew the US is fucked.
The whole time I was just left speechless. How far did all this propaganda penetrate american culture for a pastor to talk about socialism and the good of capitalism in the fucking church? It's insane. That's when I knew the US is fucked.
Yikes, that has to be a hard place to live in. Definitely worse than just avoiding the topic to not see angry faces around.
The stigma against communism is richly deserved and is too weak, if anything. Even more so because most of its proponents I've seen online talk less about what might be done differently to avoid dystopia, and more about denying the intentional mass death, economic ruin, and political totalitarianism it brought.
The term "socialism" is maybe more stigmatized than it deserves in the US. But it encompasses so many ideas and ideologies that it's kind of a useless term, anyways.
The term "socialism" is maybe more stigmatized than it deserves in the US. But it encompasses so many ideas and ideologies that it's kind of a useless term, anyways.
I think the US should follow Singapore's model, with some modifications. Approximately zero chance of that happening, though.
I meant more in regards to how communists are dealt with.
I mean, some people really suffered under communist regimes. If you live in one of those countries, the only people responsible for that kind of vitriol are the communists who used to run the place. I know someone is going to mention the damage that the U.S. has caused around the world but I'm sure anyone waving an American flag in those countries aren't exactly popular either.
I mean how else should we treat it when some of the most despicable regiemes of the 20th century conducted themselves under the guise of communism.
"Too weak" implies communists need to be cracked down on further, which...does anyone want another Cold War and era of McCarthyism?
That's not even getting into historically which type of governments persecuted communists the most, which, well...
Singapore mostly dealt with communism by Lee Kuan Yew delivering huge leaps in living standards for the population, through rapid economic growth, mass house building, and so on, while every communist nation at the same time did much, much worse. He was also somewhat repressive, but that level of repression on its own wouldn't have been sufficient.
I think delivering results is really the key to "dealing" with communism. Do that, and people won't flail around for disastrous ideologies like communism or various far-right flavours.
No, I said the stigma was too weak. That's a social thing, with mechanisms like social pressure and what's acceptable to push for by ordinary people, not a prescription for government action, especially if the government is scummy.
I dunno where you live where the stigma against communism is too weak, but it sounds nice.
While I imagine tensions are high like everywhere else, at least in Bolivia and Chile this is not the case. Here in Chile we have the Communist Party with some not well viewed politicians, but others very well received. One of the poll leaders for future elections is a Communist. I don't know if that will actually translate to actual elections in some time, but the Chilean Communist Party is much more moderate than one would think.
A one party state where the government owns all the land? Sounds like Communism to me pal...
If Singapore is communism in action, I have no problem with communism! I suspect most of socialist-era would disagree with that direction, though.
There are a lot of failed states and horrible states that were based on communism, and same for those based on socialism.
But there were also those based on capitalism too; and people who live in capitalist countries are rarely taught those in public schools. They give different reasons why they failed, even though the other communist or socialist failed states rarely failed because they happened to be communist or socialist.
But there were also those based on capitalism too; and people who live in capitalist countries are rarely taught those in public schools. They give different reasons why they failed, even though the other communist or socialist failed states rarely failed because they happened to be communist or socialist.
Thing is "delivering results" under a capitalistic model runs out eventually. The Asian Tigers found prosperity by a rapid industrialization, non-Communist high-growth model, but as Japan hit decades of stagnation so will others. It's not just an ideological problem of capitalism, secular stagnation is an economic inevitability as birth rates decline. It's not a sustainable model.
imagine saying this in a thread where OP tells about being in imminent danger of being killed if ideologically vocalizing for workers owning the means of production.
edit: as if "stigma" did not have material and social consequence in terms of violence with impunity.
That's why I said almost... Here in Colombia we're doomed to live in a dictatorial right piece of shit rulers... And the few people on the left leaning are exiled (or soon to be) or murdered (like the UP party 30 years ago).
There are parts of America where you could absolutely expect to be met with violence for publicly coming out as a socialist/communist. Biden is as neoliberal as it gets and his caravan was almost run off the road in Texas for god's sake.
No one's solved the demographic problem, true. I'd say that's a problem of all models, though.
My family is from Haiti. They remember the times when being a Communist was punishable by summary execution during the dictatorship. I also got family in Mexico. Its rough out here.
I'd say the solution at that point is more redistribution, both through a wealth tax and through greater worker control over enterprises (such as co-determination where labor gets half of the board seats).
Germany has mandatory worker board seats (it abandoned the wealth tax it previously had, though). Doesn't seem to have solved its demographic issues. Not sure how it would even address them, really. I'd advocate for free, unlimited universal child care instead.
The Wikipedia article does a far better job describing it than I can: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore
Short answer, lots of openness to international trade, extremely pro-business, lots of support for ordinary people (including government-built housing that almost everyone uses), and highly competent state intervention where it makes sense. Why? Because despite being a nightmare for ideologues on both the left and right, it works.
Ok? I have no say over any cultural shift in my own country (let alone the OP's), haven't advocated for any sort of violence, and can't control whatever government is threatening the OP. Not sure what the issue is.
You do not see an issue with coming in with a response to a person describing the threat to their life specifically through stigma, of "yeah, the problem is actually too little stigma"? Given, this form of callousness is often inscribed in liberal defense of murder, but it always takes me aback.
edit: i'llput these side by side:
Good to know you're happy with the state owning all the land and being ruled by a dictatorship.
The issue the OP is facing is whatever government is enacting or allowing the violence, not a random person on the internet saying people shouldn't like communism.
I wouldn't say either of those things are completely true of Singapore, but sure, you can characterize them like that if you want.
you are not responding to a hypothetical scenario, you are responding to an OP describing a threat to their life because of their held political beliefs.
Me having any influence over the OP's circumstances is indeed a hypothetical scenario.
Doesn't make your response to OPs situation of imminent threat to life any less callous - Imagine your response to someone coming in with such "theoretical" positions when the intersection is black or trans bodies... "im just a dude on the Internet, but I wish the stigma against you would go full homo sacer. In theory."
you being so dogmatic against leftism that you not being to understand that coming into a topic about someone expressing concerns that being labeled a leftist will lead to bad shit happening to them and replying that if anything the boot needs to be ground higher onto their neck the shows a massive lack of empathy. you may not be the "real problem" but you definitely dont mind fostering that mentality.
especially considering that to most people on this planet the difference between communism and socialism (and liberalism to a further extent for extreme right countries) is moot. literally replace the topic with another persecuted minority if you cant understand the point.