Explain yourself, dear.
"lol" is not an answer and it may seem offensive.
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Little Devil Inside has some troubling African caricatures [up: developer response, see threadmarks]
- Thread starter Yasuke
- Start date
Explain yourself, dear.
"lol" is not an answer and it may seem offensive.
Calling it out now will spare the game further controversy upon release.
"Hey, slight issue, might want to fix that so the people that will be bothered by it might still buy the game."
Damn.
This is specially funny considering how racist Fawcett was know to be towards Amazon tribes
The True Story Behind 'The Lost City of Z'
The mystery behind the movie about the disappearance of explorer Percy Fawcett
Aren't the devs from South Korea? Sadly, media especially can be insensitive towards black people on that side of the world.
You're really not seeing the difference between actual masks and a cartoon hyperbole?
I didn't even touch the Fawcett comparison. Lol
Heck, this one has even the "stick to the nose" elements which has been widely used in racist representations.
And you know why? Becuase this kind of things is part of their culture and, as such, have to be respected.
What I think, though, is that in this very context they are not meant to be offensive (and yes, I'm writing this as a white person).
It would be offensive DELETING african warriors from a game set in Africa during the great expeditions because that could be offensive. THAT way you would actually make an offense to cultures.
As a fellow white person, I suggest listening to black voices when they tell you what's offensive to African culture.
Being critical of the design.....is very dangerous for the BLM protests?
Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.
I forgot silly things like racism and cultural sensitivity don't exist in Europe, so your all good!
I'll happily eat crow if I am wrong, but I would rather draw attention to the situation to find out what's going on, than sitting back and thinking of all the possible alternatives where it's a-okay black people are being portrayed as they are. Also, how is it okay if it's a dream?
I think I can see that they we're going for some kind of tribal mask, but they uh really missed the mark.
I think they should scrap the design all together and redo it.
I think they should scrap the design all together and redo it.
Lol this has nothing to do with BLM and the protest, no one is marching in the streets protesting this game.
I didn't notice that, guess it flew by quickly? That's really unfortunate but hopefully they address it/change it.
I am brown / mixed and very sympathetic to the cause. My own feeling is that we need to hold the powerful to account who are the greatest beneficiaries of making black lives cheap, which has given them their historical ill gotten gains and their cheap labour in the current times.
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And you don't see the issue with the fact that the ONLY black representatives in the game are a bunch of typical savagery images that has been used throughout history to put black people down?
Heck, this one has even the "stick to the nose" elements which has been widely used in racist representations.
And you know why? Becuase this kind of things is part of their culture and, as such, have to be respected.
What I think, though, is that in this very context they are not meant to be offensive (and yes, I'm writing this as a white person).
It would be offensive DELETING african warriors from a game set in Africa during the great expeditions because that could be offensive. THAT way you would actually make an offense to cultures.
Did that thought never cross your mind or are you just not reading or listening to anyone but yourself?
Exactly. Regardless in that time it was unusual to have clashs with indigenous people during explorations.
(and yes, in large part due to the shitty things explorers did...)
Fact is: in the Great Expeditions years explorers encountered mask-wearing fighters. If this game recall those times, it would could include this people with battle masks.
If you say "delete them" you are just censoring them and I really do think that in this specific case it would be wrong.
Isnt...isnt the dev team based in South Korea though?
I kinda get the outrage about it with the whole masks, but the devs are real assholes and this just adds to the pile
But im actually surprised the game got any traction... the devs literally took money 5 years ago and now they are going back on backer promises ( no xbox version for a bit). They barely gave a dim of light about the game, and then disappeared , got a random publisher to give them more money. Now Sony is paying them more cash? I am not sure this game will even come out even with this trailer.
I would save the rage on this game cause by things are going.. i just dont trust them.
Ah yeap. That explains it too. Lotta asian countries still on that Ooga Booga shit when it comes to black people
And given what you know about video games and the games industry do you genuinely believe there is going to be some wide range of black characters that offset this? Because I am telling you as a black person who plays a lot of video games that STATISTICALLY is very unlikely.
Also in that 2 minute trailer I didn't see any other group singled out into outdated imagery.
Agreed. It'd be interesting to hear opinions from people living in the African nations where these masks are still part of their cultural heritage. I don't know if there are many here on resetera though.
I'd certainly like to hear what they say, because while I definitely can see the problem with the representation (especially if it's the only representation of black/African people in the entire game, which may very well be), this discussion kinda reminds me to others in the past involving video game/film representations of the Mexican "Día de los Muertos" tradition, which involves a lot of face painting, and how most of the people up in arms were (Mexican-)Americans, while Mexicans from Mexico were quite excited by the inclusion.
So it'd definitely be interesting to hear more perspectives about this, especially by the people who are primarily affected by these type of tropes.
What is it with people and jumping to be the first to be dismissive and tone police concerns? You can't take a second to just sit back and listen?
Yo it's nuts that people have to explain why this is insensitive and why it offends them personally.
Bottom line is, it fucking does. People who complain about these things aren't trying to shut down a video game company, they're trying to show those of you who don't see it that it's problematic. Some of y'all take it personally that this is being pointed out. Is it a huge problem to replace a model with a new design that doesn't offend people? Reading the pushback on this shit is blowing my mind lol.
Bottom line is, it fucking does. People who complain about these things aren't trying to shut down a video game company, they're trying to show those of you who don't see it that it's problematic. Some of y'all take it personally that this is being pointed out. Is it a huge problem to replace a model with a new design that doesn't offend people? Reading the pushback on this shit is blowing my mind lol.
We show reasonable concern, they see outrage and I guess "cancellation" (whatever the fuck that means now).
This. This ain't an oversight. And it turned me off what otherwise looked like a really charming game.
Official Staff Communication
Temporarily locking this thread while we review posts and reports.
Official Staff Communication
This is unquestionably a hurtful caricature rooted in centuries-old stereotypes. Downplaying or dismissing that will be moderated harshly. Thread reopened.
Bad look and they'll have time to change it. The devs might not have meant anything wrong by it, but i'm sure/hope they'll learn from their mistake.
I didn't catch that during the trailer but that is a massive yikes, shouldn't be too hard to change, not sure I'd feel comfortable buying this game if these sorts of representations are still in the game. Shame because the rest of the concept looks really cool. Sent the team an email expressing this so hopefully it can be changed and they can be better educated.
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Yep, that's shitty. It was a brief glimpse in the trailer and it still made me pretty uncomfortable.
It's way worse in the screenshot.
I'm a little surprised (not sure if that's the right word) that the desert variant of these enemies didn't look nearly as problematic...or at least they didn't appear to be from the trailer.
It's way worse in the screenshot.
I'm a little surprised (not sure if that's the right word) that the desert variant of these enemies didn't look nearly as problematic...or at least they didn't appear to be from the trailer.
OP
OP
If you're genuinely accusing me of only posting this because I'm a prisoner of the moment, and not a black man who is always concerned about such things, I don't have anything to say to you.
I thought it looked cool except the weird britishhumoresque dude doing mundane things montage.
Then I saw this.
They should change those enemies, though. I might buy it if they do.
I want to like their game, but they're fighting me on it with this bs.
Yeah when someone unironically says "witch hunt", that's a red ass flag.
Then I saw this.
They should change those enemies, though. I might buy it if they do.
I want to like their game, but they're fighting me on it with this bs.
Yeah when someone unironically says "witch hunt", that's a red ass flag.
I didn't even pick up on any of this while watching but I'm a white male from Australia. I just thought they were characters in a game.
I don't see any problem with the idea of tribal man hunting down an adventurer.
The problem is that they are made less than human. Caracatures using stereotypes of early British exploration.
The setting is coming from British explorations which was rooted in racism and nationalism. And to change it now to the traditional 1:1 fantasy races like goblins or orcs just plays back into the same racism.
The problem is that they are made less than human. Caracatures using stereotypes of early British exploration.
The setting is coming from British explorations which was rooted in racism and nationalism. And to change it now to the traditional 1:1 fantasy races like goblins or orcs just plays back into the same racism.
As fellow a person of colour I think that you should shut the fuck up. You are not helping at all nor showing support for our fellow Black brothers and sisters. The caricature is racist full stop, it needs to be removed period.
Zelda is base on European fantasy which itself harbours problematic racism. Especially in regards to Gannondorf being base on Arab and yet is the bad guy or how dark skin equals evil or how Link and Zelda being chosen by the gods and are white.
This.
Is Aku Aku also offensive now?
I know that you are banned, and rightfully so, but the Crash Bandicoot series does have a racism problem in regards to how Papu Papu is portrayed as it's the tried stereotype of a fat Polynesian, which is made even worse in the Crash Team Racing remake.
I didn't see that, and i think it is important that more people get sensitized about racial content.
I think chinese men with big hats and chopsticks would have been more recognised as racial content, and that is somewhat a problem.
But where lies the border that is not meant to be crossed?
What makes this ok
and the tribal people in the other game not ok?
Indigenous/tribal people have been heavily marginalised not helped by the fact that all negative stereotype of them originated from pulp comics.
Any representation of them must be done in a respectful manner not present a false negative or racist image.
Ideally non-Indigenous/tribal people should not be using them in their games/story at all as they do not have the right as it is not their culture thus not their experience.
I noticed it on the second viewing and was disappointed.
Video games have a big problem with letting this shit slide. For example, here's a game on Switch that I unfortunately couldn't refund after I noticed what the enemies were:
Oh wow that blatant
Reminds me of LocoRoco's enemies. Made me feel a bit uncomfortable:
Oh wow that's disappointing to see from a Sony game. Reminds me of the Kirby super star game and how the racist image was changed in the remake.
But yeah, it's not fun being non-white as you're always on the look out see if any image is racist or not and it just gets tiring.
Sadly that's the problem with racist, especially gamers. They don't want to listen or really care.
It's kinda why I don't hang around here very often as I don't feel safe and I feel that the video game industry as a whole is just pushing me out. 😕
Are you white. Do you not see how problematic, negative and racist that trope is? It plays on the idea that tribal people are "savages" for hunting a colonialist. There is no such thing as, what you call an "adventurer".
Not good at all and needs to be changed.
But please explain why no one here has asked for Crash Bandicoot to change or remove their caricature mask?
But please explain why no one here has asked for Crash Bandicoot to change or remove their caricature mask?
All too common imagery in Japanese media unfortunately. It's gotten better but still pops up from time to time which just shows how influential this stereotype is globally.
I did.
No one has explained why these same posts weren't made throughout the Crash remakes.
I was 18 when Crash 1 debuted on ps1 and my uni friends and I all agreed back then the game was racist.
Everyone fighting for that same point for this game in the OP, where were you with Crash?
You could just make that thread and start that conversation instead of using it as a gotcha?
Where were we? Where were you?
How hard is it to wait and listen before delivering your "I don't see it" useless hot take? Nothing will stop gamers from trying to be as intentionally ignorant as possible, I suppose.
What's the point in "whatabouting" this? How does that contribute at all?
I don't really know the context of that situation, I've never played Crash. My main issue is the fact that the protagonists belong to a civilized, seemingly, all white society, and the enemies depicted are savages in the form of African caricatures. Like, I think the context could be a a whole lot better if we see that this isn't this game's version of "black" characters.
But at the moment, white adventurers running around fighting off 'black' savages looks super bad. It's not just a mask issue.
You can tell who stays in gaming side because the people talking out their ass never bother coming to OT to post in these types of discussions. Lmao.
This got me during the reveal as well. Which is upsetting because I had liked everything up until then! Urgh...the devs need to patch this out & need to do some introspection.