Little Devil Inside has some troubling African caricatures [up: developer response, see threadmarks]

Lost Lemurian · Jun 12, 2020

The problem is that there are so many types of traditional masks from cultures all over the world (including Korea, where these devs are based). Clearly, these enemies are wearing masks with elements from a bunch of different ones.

However, the addition of dreads, blowpipes, and (seemingly? It's not 100% clear from the acreenshot) dark skin is just too many elements to ignore. These aren't just enemies in masks, they're very much Sambo-style caricatures.

Vire · Jun 12, 2020

shaneo632 said:
Reminds me of LocoRoco's enemies. Made me feel a bit uncomfortable:

That's... much worse

nillansan · Jun 12, 2020

2020 and they still do this shit.

RedRum · Jun 12, 2020

Lol. In light of what is going on in the world, it's safe to say that the dev should've pulled this one back.

Yasuke · Jun 12, 2020

deftones r cool said:
This.

Is Aku Aku also offensive now?

Aku Aku doesn't look like blackface or bear any other troubling resemblances to shitty old tropes. He's just a mask. Come on.

Trup1aya · Jun 12, 2020

Darrilium said:
I think they look like tribal masks and I don't want to be too offensive but I don't see the problem...?

They look like tribal masks painted to look like racist caricature of black people.

Vire · Jun 12, 2020

Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

FormatCompatible · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

Who the fuck is even trying to ''cancel the game''? People are asking to change the enemy to something that is not a offensive racist stereotype.

Messofanego · Jun 12, 2020

Ooph that's unfortunate. Hope it's rectified.

DealWithIt · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

Jesus, nobody said cancel the game they said change the design.

"Tribals" as some in this thread have called them, are an egregious design choice. It reduces indigenous peoples to caricatures--the same caricatures used to justify murder and pillaging against these people since forever.

Rover · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

How many chances? This game already got 'vetted' for the presentation. It went through multiple hands already with no change.

Rats · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

Who's cancelling the game? Most people here are like, "That sucks, they should change it." In other words, giving the dev a chance to be educated.

Saint of Killers · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

People should politely tweet @yosp and @GregRicey (https://twitter.com/GregRicey) about it on Twitter, as they're the go to indie PS people.

Jonathan Lanza · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

Holy shit what is WRONG with you people? Nobody called for anything to be cancelled. This is literally just bringing awareness of something in the game. Chillax and max, bucko.

Griselbrand · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

Who is talking about canceling anything? Lots of people are chiming in saying this looked really cool but that part stood out, and some are hoping for a change.

Damn, y'all hear some criticism and then jump to defend these studious from this cancel culture strawman y'all build up with the concern trolling about what devs can and can't do these days. Shit is tiring.

Mr. Blue Sky · Jun 12, 2020

The "poor devs" defense once again only coming up when it's in regards to overlooking bigotry and offensive content and never anything else.

NinjaScooter · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

This thread has been almost entirely civil (outside of the trolls trying to downplay things). Not sure what you are reading.

Stef · Jun 12, 2020

Wait a moment. These are traditional african masks, used by various tribes for various purposes and also the real ones tend to exagerate the face traits in a grotesque way.

Please, don't transform this important protest movement into a witch's hunt because you'll devoid it of its most important values.

Vire · Jun 12, 2020

Saint of Killers said:
People should politely tweet @yosp and @GregRicey (https://twitter.com/GregRicey) about it on Twitter, as they're the go to indie PS people.

There you go, perfect - and I will actually. That is exactly the right thing to do rather than non constructive garbage below.

Rover said:
How many chances? This game already got 'vetted' for the presentation. It went through multiple hands already with no change.

A. D. Skinner · Jun 12, 2020

Stef said:
Wait a moment. These are traditional african masks, used by various tribes for various purposes and also the real ones tend to exagerate the face traits in a grotesque way.

Please, don't transform this important protest movement into a witch's hunt because you'll devoid it of its most important values.

The only sensible post in this thread.

JusDoIt · Jun 12, 2020

Can't wait for the devs to explain those characters were designed when they were young and ignorant. Months ago.

Saint of Killers · Jun 12, 2020

Stef said:
Wait a moment. These are traditional african masks, used by various tribes for various purposes and also the real ones tend to exagerate the face traits in a grotesque way.

Please, don't transform this important protest movement into a witch's hunt because you'll devoid it of its most important values.

Yes, We're aware such masks exist. However, what happens if they're the only black people in the game and are being depicted as savages, do you see the issue then?

Rover · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
There you go, perfect - and I will actually. That is exactly the right thing to do rather than non constructive garbage below.

You gonna answer my question?

Hey Please · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

Your posts are generally better than this. Pointing out and raising awareness about a culturally and/or racially sensitive issue and having a discussion amidst a few drive bys is not equivalent to "Cancel"ing the game.

dallow_bg · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

Who are you talking to? Who's trying to cancel this?

Stop crying.

Vire · Jun 12, 2020

Hey Please said:
Your posts are generally better than this. Pointing out and raising awareness about a culturally and/or racially sensitive issue and having a discussion amidst a few drive bys is not equivalent to "Cancel"ing the game.

Maybe an over exaggeration and for that I apologize, but it's difficult to interpret intonation in text form and I don't like dog piling on a new developer.

dallow_bg · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
Maybe an over exaggeration and for that I apologize, but it's difficult to interpret intonation in text form and I don't like dog piling on a new developer.

Maybe you didn't read the thread at all.

7thFloor · Jun 12, 2020

Dola said:
Developers can't do anything these days

Uh yeah they can, and then they're subject to criticism.

Gajeel23 · Jun 12, 2020

would changing the skin tone to white fix it? if so, then they should just do that.

Skittles · Jun 12, 2020

Gajeel23 said:
would changing the skin tone to white fix it? if so, then they should just do that.

No, cause then you have white people wearing black face masks. Whole enemy needs redesigned

Stef · Jun 12, 2020

Saint of Killers said:
Yes, We're aware such masks exist. However, what happens if they're the only black people in the game and are being depicted as savages, do you see the issue then?

Do I see an issue in a scene in which african warriors/hunters with battle-masks are attacking an explorer?

I mean... think about it for just a second.

What's the setting of the game?

From what we know of the game this could be a Percy Fawcett situation or a dream or whatever.

Again: THIS kind of "reactions" are very dangerous for all the BLM protest and movement because they move the focus from the heart of the issue and offers the flanks to critiques by people who opposes the protests and would like to maintain the status-quo.

Please, let's be cautious with this kind of "epiphanies".

Billy Awesomo · Jun 12, 2020

deftones r cool said:
This.

Is Aku Aku also offensive now?

I think Aku Aku is based on Tiki masks, which would make it Hawaiian or Polynesian and not African?

Deleted member 4034 · Jun 12, 2020

Benjamin1981 said:
I don't see a problem with the design. People are overreacting over nothing.

Hey guys! Benjamin doesn't see a problem so I guess there isn't one. Close the thread.

He can't simply take the time to learn something new and learn why people have an issue with this depiction and carry that knowledge forward.

Mr. Nice_Guy · Jun 12, 2020

I didn't notice this while watching yesterday. Just the dreads or just the masks wouldn't be as bad, (depending on how the characters are portrayed), but the masks, dreads, AND the drawn on lips? Big oof.

Incubuster · Jun 12, 2020

I thought they looked cute and funny in my first reaction to seeing them. Is that bad?

Gajeel23 · Jun 12, 2020

Skittles said:
No, cause then you have white people wearing black face masks. Whole enemy needs redesigned

Then make the masks another color as well and it should be ok. I'm from Europe, so I may be ignorant here.

DontHateTheBacon · Jun 12, 2020

Jave said:
This is a clear case of "How did no one during development noticed this was a bad design choice?"

Like most of these; black people aren't consulted.

Skittles · Jun 12, 2020

Jave said:
This is a clear case of "How did no one during development noticed this was a bad design choice?"

Means the dev team is all white

dallow_bg · Jun 12, 2020

Incubuster said:
I thought they looked cute and funny in my first reaction to seeing them. Is that bad?

Some people think tar babies are cute too.
I dunno.

JusDoIt · Jun 12, 2020

Gajeel23 said:
would changing the skin tone to white fix it? if so, then they should just do that.

Changing the game tone to not racist would fix it.

Jaclo · Jun 12, 2020

Sometimes it seems like this website thrives off of perpetuating controversy where none should exist.

Deleted member 4034 · Jun 12, 2020

Incubuster said:
I thought they looked cute and funny in my first reaction to seeing them. Is that bad?

You could've just kept that to yourself and read the thread.

Rover · Jun 12, 2020

Stef said:
Wait a moment. These are traditional african masks, used by various tribes for various purposes and also the real ones tend to exagerate the face traits in a grotesque way.

Please, don't transform this important protest movement into a witch's hunt because you'll devoid it of its most important values.

Those are not "traditional" in any sense, and even if they were, the point is not that they're too cartoony, the point is that it's a very worn out and racist theme of colonialism and savagery. We're not here to argue about the design of the masks, it's the characterization as a whole.

Stef · Jun 12, 2020

Skittles said:
Means the dev team is all white

This makes no sense. You could also have people of color in the development team and they maybe would know nothing about african culture.

Basically - without wanting - you wrote a VERY racist phrase.

JusDoIt · Jun 12, 2020

Stef said:
This makes no sense. You could also have people of color in the development team and they maybe would know nothing about african culture.

Basically - without wanting - you wrote a VERY racist phrase.

Except they didn't.

dallow_bg · Jun 12, 2020

Stef said:
This makes no sense. You could also have people of color in the development team and they maybe would know nothing about african culture.

Basically - without wanting - you wrote a VERY racist phrase.

lol

Brrandon · Jun 12, 2020

JusDoIt said:
Except they didn't.

Immediately assuming a dev team is all white because a racist depiction is in the game is very much a race based assumption. The dev team is south korean.

Deleted member 6230 · Jun 12, 2020

Stef said:
Wait a moment. These are traditional african masks, used by various tribes for various purposes and also the real ones tend to exagerate the face traits in a grotesque way.

Please, don't transform this important protest movement into a witch's hunt because you'll devoid it of its most important values.

Show me the tribe that wears these masks

Stef · Jun 12, 2020

Rover said:
Those are not "traditional" in any sense

Heck, this one has even the "stick to the nose" elements which has been widely used in racist representations.

And you know why? Becuase this kind of things is part of their culture and, as such, have to be respected.

What I think, though, is that in this very context they are not meant to be offensive (and yes, I'm writing this as a white person).

It would be offensive DELETING african warriors from a game set in Africa during the great expeditions because that could be offensive. THAT way you would actually make an offense to cultures.

roguesquirrel · Jun 12, 2020

Vire said:
I don't really see the issue, but then again, I don't see the harm in a slight redesign if that makes everyone happy.

Vire said:
Rather than lambasting and trying to "Cancel" a game and a new startup indie developer for what may have been unintentional mistake. Why don't we use it more as an opportunity to kindly educate.

People get so angry about shit.. This is a genuinely cool looking and and unique title from new developer. Let's give them a chance.

how is it you cant see the issue but you can see a bunch of imaginary posts trying to cancel the game

Little Devil Inside has some troubling African caricatures [up: developer response, see threadmarks]

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