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Snack12367

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,191
I've almost finished it and this is rough.

As Lindsay puts it, I don't think I can look at the Hobbit, maybe not even Lord of the Rings the same way.

The greed and the fucking over of people...It's shocking even from my jaded perspective.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
God that ending....now I unironically want to say "why does it hurt so much" and "because it was real" is an actual answer. Also, damn that last shot of the video was good.
 

Snack12367

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,191
Her bit about the consumption of media ethically is just so spot on and current. It's an issue we've all seen with the MeToo movement and others. How can you consume media knowing the context around it is awful?

This has been a great series and possibly one of the best things I've seen on Youtube.
 

Real Hero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,329
Her bit about the consumption of media ethically is just so spot on and current. It's an issue we've all seen with the MeToo movement and others. How can you consume media knowing the context around it is awful?

This has been a great series and possibly one of the best things I've seen on Youtube.
what about people who get weirdly obsessive over how well a film does at the box office for a giant corporation. Like it matters to anyone if marvel beats star wars, it's fucking bizarre and you see it all the time on this forum. Enjoying the final product is much more excusable to me than that level of worship
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
A giant corporation strong-arming a small country into changing its laws to suit their desires. Welp, didn't see that one coming......
Which is why I always cheer whenever the Comission sledgehammers one of these greedy bastards in the face.
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
I had no idea about all of this and damn this is absolutely depressing, I can't believe how hard Warner managed to screw so many people. Absolutely amazingly put together and executed, I can't believe how much Lindsay has grown in this, I can't wait for whatever is planned next!
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,142
so we're all in agreement that was the best hobbit trilogy of all-time.

man, lindsay went in. that was some really good shit. informative, depressing, and real.
 

Pilgore

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
370
Would not be surprised to learn that this kind of shit happens to a lot of much beloved movies (I can see this happening in the Star Wars movies as well for instance). The LOTR movies are still one of my favourite movies ever (with Fellowship being at number one) but she was totally spot on that The Hobbit movies are so bad, the movies themselves, the production woes behind them, the labour stuff, that it almost, *almost* retroactively tarnishes parts of LOTR. Which is one of the worst things you could do (the SW prequels and Prometheus/Alien Covenant did a similar thing). Wooooof.........
 
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Cronen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,757
Her bit about the consumption of media ethically is just so spot on and current. It's an issue we've all seen with the MeToo movement and others. How can you consume media knowing the context around it is awful?
Yeah, I fully agree. Completely spot on.

So this was my first really dive in to Lindsay's work. I remember her being 'cast' as the Nostalgia Chick back when I watched the Nostlagia Critic many years ago, but never watched her stuff then. Are there any other videos of her that people recommend? I was super impressed with this trilogy of videos.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
Going into the first video I had no idea the third was even going to be about exploiting the labor laws of New Zealand by WB and other multinational film corporations, lol.

Well, I didn't know there was going to be a third video at all, but still.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,142
Yeah, I fully agree. Completely spot on.

So this was my first really dive in to Lindsay's work. I remember her being 'cast' as the Nostalgia Chick back when I watched the Nostlagia Critic many years ago, but never watched her stuff then. Are there any other videos of her that people recommend? I was super impressed with this trilogy of videos.

a lot of her loose canon videos are really fun, but more surface level since it's a bunch of quick comparisons (though with the context of the time/industry in which they were created). guardians of the galaxy 2 is an especially personal take on the film from her. the mel brooks video is a pretty good and relevant take on the modern internet political climate when it comes to making edgy humor. and just in general her disney videos are kinda fun, but i think that pocahontas is the best because she ties it into moana and cultural appropriation as a whole.

the complex feels of guardians of the galaxy 2
mel brooks, the producers and the ethics of satire about n@zis
pocahontas was a mistake, and here's why!

i'm super impressed by how far she's come as a creator. she's easily my favorite on youtube.
 

Deleted member 4609

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
767
Yeah, I fully agree. Completely spot on.

So this was my first really dive in to Lindsay's work. I remember her being 'cast' as the Nostalgia Chick back when I watched the Nostlagia Critic many years ago, but never watched her stuff then. Are there any other videos of her that people recommend? I was super impressed with this trilogy of videos.

The one about The Producers and the recent Disney critiques are pretty great, but most of her content is at the very least interesting.
 

Beren

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,513
Holy hell that was brutal. What a terrific video that highlighted just something so insanely exploitative.

Yeah, I fully agree. Completely spot on.

So this was my first really dive in to Lindsay's work. I remember her being 'cast' as the Nostalgia Chick back when I watched the Nostlagia Critic many years ago, but never watched her stuff then. Are there any other videos of her that people recommend? I was super impressed with this trilogy of videos.
I really like her Hunchback of Notre Dame and RENT videos.
 

Neoriceisgood

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,142
Well that felt like a gut punch, but in a good way.

I'm really impressed by the ever increasing quality of her work, and man the subtext at the end of the video w/regards to the CA stuff. Wonder if that was intentional?
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
Yeah, I fully agree. Completely spot on.

So this was my first really dive in to Lindsay's work. I remember her being 'cast' as the Nostalgia Chick back when I watched the Nostlagia Critic many years ago, but never watched her stuff then. Are there any other videos of her that people recommend? I was super impressed with this trilogy of videos.
Make sure you check out her series The Whole Plate, where she talks about film studies using Michael Bay's Transformers series.
 

Zelenogorsk

Banned
Mar 1, 2018
1,567
While it definitely sucks not being able to view media through the uncomplicated lens of childhood once you get older I do find "learning that the creator is piece of shit" does a good job of significantly cutting down on my media backlog.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,651
Kind of a downer video, I never realized all this shit went down because of The Hobbit.

Well that felt like a gut punch, but in a good way.

I'm really impressed by the ever increasing quality of her work, and man the subtext at the end of the video w/regards to the CA stuff. Wonder if that was intentional?

 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
Her discussion about Kesha made me immediately think about how Lindsay broke away from The Nostalgia Chick.

Great video, exactly what I was hoping to hear w/ regards to New Zealand's film industry concerning The Hobbit Films. It's all too common to see internet media critics avoid such discussions out of some naive or misguided attempt towards achieving "objectivity," so I'm glad to see Lindsay tackle it.

Edit: Seems she read my mind on that Kesha take, that might be what she meant by controversy
 
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Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Yeah, I fully agree. Completely spot on.

So this was my first really dive in to Lindsay's work. I remember her being 'cast' as the Nostalgia Chick back when I watched the Nostlagia Critic many years ago, but never watched her stuff then. Are there any other videos of her that people recommend? I was super impressed with this trilogy of videos.
*go to her youtube page* -> *play all*

They aren't all quite this thorough/large scale productions but the quality of work/critique otherwise is similarly high quality, well researched, well articulated stuff.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,682
here
holy shit

the opening to this video alone gives me flashbacks to her previous video essays

she's so talented at this shit
 

Tunahead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
986
"And they are frankly worried, because the actors brought a completely frivolous action. Now they've done that once, what happens in a year's time when Warner Brothers have spent 250mil, we're halfway through the film, and the actors decide to have some fun again?"

I guess getting a lot of money in exchange for being a Warner Bros crony is more important to Peter Jackson than not pissing away his legacy as a film maker.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,682
here
hot damn, that's a direct reference to Always Sunny with the board and Day Bow Bow
 

Happy Puppy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,480
That was a top notch video, she produces a lot of high quality videos, and this video change how I view the hobbit. The freaking greed was disgusting, I need a palate cleanser after this.
 

Beren

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,513
Yeah, I lost quite a bit of respect for Peter Jackson from this video. His remarks on the equity situation were pretty shit no matter how he tried to play them off.
 

Pilgore

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
370
"And they are frankly worried, because the actors brought a completely frivolous action. Now they've done that once, what happens in a year's time when Warner Brothers have spent 250mil, we're halfway through the film, and the actors decide to have some fun again?"

I guess getting a lot of money in exchange for being a Warner Bros crony is more important to Peter Jackson than not pissing away his legacy as a film maker.

I think he was more concerned about Warner packing up and leaving NZ entirely. Which would have been bad as well. Jackson was in agreement with the unions (he kind of kickstarted the whole thing with that initial backing) but was afraid that Warner would just say "fuck it" and leave. Although in hindsight, maybe that wouldn't have been such a bad thing.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,647
Brazil
Yeah, I fully agree. Completely spot on.

So this was my first really dive in to Lindsay's work. I remember her being 'cast' as the Nostalgia Chick back when I watched the Nostlagia Critic many years ago, but never watched her stuff then. Are there any other videos of her that people recommend? I was super impressed with this trilogy of videos.

The bright one is very good. Her Transformer series is also very good...
 

JCHandsom

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
4,218
I think he was more concerned about Warner packing up and leaving NZ entirely. Which would have been bad as well. Jackson was in agreement with the unions (he kind of kickstarted the whole thing with that initial backing) but was afraid that Warner would just say "fuck it" and leave. Although in hindsight, maybe that wouldn't have been such a bad thing.

The real problem is that he was probably right, WB would have taken the film to Ireland or Poland or Hungary and then the people there would be the ones getting screwed. It's just that the public outcry motivated the government to step in and make sure it was New Zealand getting screwed, I'm sorry I mean "getting the prestigious opportunity to show off the natural beauty of their country and participate in the follow-up to one of the most successful film trilogies of all time!" I think that's the line at least.

As long as WB had the monetary motivation and means to make The Hobbit, someone somewhere was getting screwed. As Lindsay said, that's capitalism.
 

FeliciaFelix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,778
I think NZ bent over like that a great deal because of the glamour of Hollywood. In fact, lots of people are exploited because of the wow factor of their respective vocation. I wonder if NZ got any real money after the tax breaks. Was the job creation enough to offset the lost taxes? It seems the WB exploited the emotions rather than present a good deal.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,682
here
the ending of this video really sticks with me

choosing to avoid certain content can take a lot out of you, it would be so much easier just to stick with your base feelings and go with what's popular
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I was kinda bored after about 10 minutes. Spending the majority of the video explaining a labor dispute was probably not the greatest choice. This is the Phantom Menace of video essays. You probably could have gotten the point across in just a few minutes, and if you're not really going to explicitly look at what the law did to wages then I don't get the point of an extended look.

The ending feels either incredibly contrived or incredibly naive. It really took you nearly half your life to learn that the entertainment industry is quite ruthless? You never heard about the countless recording artists that record labels screwed over? You weren't paying attention during the very Writer's Guild Strike that you lived through? It was only 10 years ago. You haven't noted the male-female pay disparity across acting? This is very much an industry centered around getting bang for their buck, and they will maximize profits in very nearly any way it is legal to do so. I don't understand how or why that is a surprise to someone well into their 30's.

Ellis is 34 years old yet she acts like LOTR films were from from some winsome long-lost childhood....she would have been 20 when Return of the King came out. A fair amount of the conclusion annoyingly echoes Star Wars prequel talk - "Oh the poor quality of these followups now ruins my enjoyment of the old films". I'd certainly have liked for all the films to have been better, but you're really holding onto your anger and regret too much if the plodding Hobbit films hurt your estimation of LOTR.
 
OP
OP
aerie

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,033
iZpnz6Z.gif


Super quick and dirty, i'll do a cleaner one later.
 

shiftplusone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,401
watching part 2 now (didn't realize it was out) but watching GDT's enthusiasm, knowing that his version will never exist, is making me very sad
 

Pilgore

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
370
The real problem is that he was probably right, WB would have taken the film to Ireland or Poland or Hungary and then the people there would be the ones getting screwed. It's just that the public outcry motivated the government to step in and make sure it was New Zealand getting screwed, I'm sorry I mean "getting the prestigious opportunity to show off the natural beauty of their country and participate in the follow-up to one of the most successful film trilogies of all time!" I think that's the line at least.

As long as WB had the monetary motivation and means to make The Hobbit, someone somewhere was getting screwed. As Lindsay said, that's capitalism.


I think he was probably just terrified of the production leaving New Zealand. After the whole Del Toro stuff, for some probably selfish artistic reasons, but also because of potential hundreds of New Zealand film industry workers then being out of a job (as they point out, the Wellington film industry is small and largely hinges on these huge type of movies to stay operational, for the most part.) I think these videos really just show that these movies should have never happened in the first place. When Del Toro left, Pete and WB should have just said "shame, wrap up it." But they probably both couldn't let it go, Peter wanting to return and not let the opportunity go, WB because of fat stacks of cash.
 
OP
OP
aerie

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,033
I was kinda bored after about 10 minutes. Spending the majority of the video explaining a labor dispute was probably not the greatest choice. This is the Phantom Menace of video essays. You probably could have gotten the point across in just a few minutes, and if you're not really going to explicitly look at what the law did to wages then I don't get the point of an extended look.

The ending feels either incredibly contrived or incredibly naive. It really took you nearly half your life to learn that the entertainment industry is quite ruthless? You never heard about the countless recording artists that record labels screwed over? You weren't paying attention during the very Writer's Guild Strike that you lived through? It was only 10 years ago. You haven't noted the male-female pay disparity across acting? This is very much an industry centered around getting bang for their buck, and they will maximize profits in very nearly any way it is legal to do so. I don't understand how or why that is a surprise to someone well into their 30's.

Ellis is 34 years old yet she acts like LOTR films were from from some winsome long-lost childhood....she would have been 20 when Return of the King came out. A fair amount of the conclusion annoyingly echoes Star Wars prequel talk - "Oh the poor quality of these followups now ruins my enjoyment of the old films". I'd certainly have liked for all the films to have been better, but you're really holding onto your anger and regret too much if the plodding Hobbit films hurt your estimation of LOTR.
She has covered the movies rather extensively, and this being part 3/2, not just as a joke, but with how part 2 ended off we knew this was likely going to be what she was tackling this episode.

Theres a difference between an industry being known to be quite ruthless and some of the degrees that are presented here, as you can tell by some of the reactions in this very thread. She wasn't surprised by this, perhaps just the severity of it and is merely drawing attention to it, as we need to keep doing.

I don't think the Hobbit films (well, the first two, i've not seen the third) are nearly as bad as the Star Wars prequel trilogy, but they are often soulless, studio manufactured, and misguided in addition, thematic direction and pacing. Taking that into account and the broader picture of how they were produced shines a new light on the entire franchise that can have you re-evaluate it with a different critical lens than you once did, its far less "it ruined my childhood" and more so just seeing things in different way than before, as its difficult to separate what we now know and the project as a whole, including The Hobbit films from the initial three. I've never been the biggest fan of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy, as the books were more my childhood, but i'll certainly see them in a different light, as i would have after aging and maturing, as i would after watching The Hobbit films, and as i would after watching Lindsey's videos essays, each bringing new perspective and insight.
 
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CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
That ending hurts with recent news.

The whole video hurts.

We went there...but we can't go back again.
 

Metal B

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,396
The ending feels either incredibly contrived or incredibly naive. It really took you nearly half your life to learn that the entertainment industry is quite ruthless? You never heard about the countless recording artists that record labels screwed over? You weren't paying attention during the very Writer's Guild Strike that you lived through? It was only 10 years ago. You haven't noted the male-female pay disparity across acting? This is very much an industry centered around getting bang for their buck, and they will maximize profits in very nearly any way it is legal to do so. I don't understand how or why that is a surprise to someone well into their 30's.
There is a big difference between hearing about something second hand and being thrown apart by your most favorite piece of media. The essay is so great, because there are a lot of her own, real emotion put into the context of the video. Like she said in the end, media has a different effect on us. We mostly don't care, if our shoes being made by a heartless company, who screws over people. But movies, games, songs, etc. touch your heart and become part of our identity. If you then hear, how corrupted they are in reality, it can be soul crushing and makes you think about yourself and your past. That's part about being an adult.
That's why the essay is so great: It's informative and biographic.

Ellis is 34 years old yet she acts like LOTR films were from from some winsome long-lost childhood....she would have been 20 when Return of the King came out. A fair amount of the conclusion annoyingly echoes Star Wars prequel talk - "Oh the poor quality of these followups now ruins my enjoyment of the old films". I'd certainly have liked for all the films to have been better, but you're really holding onto your anger and regret too much if the plodding Hobbit films hurt your estimation of LOTR.
If you know Ellis and saw the other two videos of this essay, you would know, that the LOTR films (especially the Making-ofs) inspirated her to go into the movie industry (which she achieved, until she notice, that it wasn't very fun). So they clearly have a special place in her heart and the Hobbit movies put this love into question. All points that she mentioned in the first two parts.