Sure, I'm not against any criticism of LRG. I just find deciding to boycott all their offerings a disproportionate punishment.
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Limited Run Games "overjoyed" to partner with THQ Nordic
- Thread starter Diggeh
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Boycotting due to allying with a known child porn loving company is now disproportionate, I've fucking heard everything now.
So. Will you be boycotting Nintendo, Sony , MS, Steam, Epic, etc? They are all working with them and not hiding it or giving a fuck.
If you're talking about if I'm happy about what THQ did, then hell no, not sure where in my post I implied I was. If you're talking about Limited Run games, I don't believe that them being in a deal like this makes them "supportive" of child pornography and racism. I'm realistic about it and I'm not going to shit on Limited Run games over this.
If you want to boycott them, fine. But my problem comes with harassing Limited Run games as if they were the ones that did the AMA themselves.
And this deal has most likely been in development for months, way before the AMA thing happened. Things called contracts exists, it's not easy to back out of them even if Limited Run games wanted to.
Allying? This isn't DnD. It's a business deal. We know nothing about their commercial arraignments, contracts, and timing.
That's not how it works. Buying digitally cuts the retailers share by transferring it to the platform holder. The publisher will still get their cut.
As for this topic, LRG are a smallish independent from what I can see (harder to be selective), but I'm sure some around here would rather see them go bankrupt/bust.
Now now, no real world context around how these deals usually happen or work, just shout at LRG they support child pornography.
Even after that statement earlier, keep doing it, I'm sure it will give the staff who work there a great impression of Resetera.
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And to think I got so excited that Limited Run was releasing physical copies of Star Wars Episode 1 Racer in the Modern Market. Now, I don't care because they're partnering with Freaking THQ Nordic.
This is where I dont agree with the criticism.
I think if you are buying anything remotely on ps4, xbox, switch, steam etc you are supporting thq. If you really dont want to support thq, you kinda need to give up gaming carte blanche.
I dont buy thq games. I believe fricking red faction 1 and 2 were my last games back on ps2. Maybe darksiders for a gift for a friend who loves zelda games. So they can go out of business for all I care. I support LRG because they bring out super limited physical games to a niche market. They aren't in a business with thq to promote their views. That's been stated. Yea its shitty but this is getting to an extreme. Boycott them if you must but dont be hurling insults at people who aren't even buying thq shit.
That clears it up. They weren't hosting child porn themselves but their users we're sharing links with possible abuse. It's crazy cloudflare doesn't take exception and continues to host their site. I can't imagine they make much money of of them but I have no idea how much traffic the site gets.
Basically. How are you respond to anyone that accuses you of supporting CP because you made a publishing deal? There's no dialogue to be had there.
Seriously, doubt LRG entertains that kind of accusation. They shouldn't because it's ridiculous and not honest dialogue.
You don't respond. You probably never log in to the account again and you go away telling your fellow employees how this forum just allows its users to make outrageous claims. Even if you are personally disappointed about the AMA and THQs response.
A boycott and expressing disappointment is one thing, telling a company they support/endorse child pornography due to what is probably an unavoidable publishing deal is another. Unless you're going to take that hot take and aim it at everyone else still publishing with THQ.
But I don't think anyone is going to tell Sony or MS they endorse child pornography for continuing to distribute via THQ or platform them.
I'm aware. It was rhetorical. You can't respond to that. So hence any good faith dialogue is ruined.
Depending on how long ago Limited Run Games made the deal, they might not be able to afford to back out of the deal. If the deal was made after the 8chan incident then I would say they are definitely open to criticism.
I don't disagree. But they aren't criticized very often for it and i think it's a bit unfair to single out a tiny company like LRG for bringing an old THQ (the sadly gone original company) game in limited form to the marked. It's everyones right to tell them how they feel about it, but there are still much much bigger fish doing business with THQN and people buy their games while boycotting this little company and telling them to fuck off.
Im not going to downplay what they did but this is still a business that needs to support employees that had nothing to do with that fuckup. I can't really fault LRG here.
I was super sad. I made the thread before I found out that THQ Nordic was partnering with LRG. I was so excited about physical Star Wars games too.... :(
Did those cretins face any consequences for their actions? No, so to me that means that business entity endorses what those cretins did, no matter what they say publicly about it, and anyone who associates with them is perfectly fine with it.
I'm not sure why you think they're receiving disproportionate heat. Are you really surprised that people have higher expectations of small companies who serve a niche, dedicated audience, than huge multi-billion dollar corporations?
So are you going to give up gaming entirely? Since THQN uses all the big markets PSN,XBOX,STEAM to publish games on and therefore make money from them?
Red Faction is owned by THQ Nordic. No one else is going to publish this.
The deal to bring this about probably started negotiating months ago.
A small business is not going to retroactively cut one of its deals. Or, you expecting them to do that whilst handwaving Sony and MS not deplatforming THQ games just seems like punching the small guy because it's easier.
They gave a reasonable response to Era distancing themselves from the AMA and condemning. But some posters still went on rants about condoning child pornography.
Doesn't this just create a situation where you're punishing the little guy more for doing business the same as these huge companies?
Yeah I see where you are coming from.
I better stop using money as well... :/ Made by EVIL people
I think it's actually a very proportionate action. In the grand scheme of things, not purchasing a handful of games isn't going to affect my life in a major way and my personal choices are also not going to affect LRG in a massive way. It's a small, personal, choice that plays out on a relatively small scale.
If you are going to boycott LRG for working with THQN and profiting with them then the same moral stance should be applied to every other publisher that also does the same with THQN. Otherwise what is the point of that boycott?
So you're telling me I should treat LRG the same as I do heartless corporations like Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Valve, etc? Because to me, one of the appealing things about LRG was that they WEREN'T those companies, they were a small company who catered to and were really engaged with their niche, dedicated audience.
And to be clear, I don't agree with accusing them of condoning or supporting child pornography but I do think it's kinda gross, tarnishes their image and I will be less likely to buy their games moving forward.
That's exactly the point though. You are choosing to boycott the extremely small, niche publisher who does business with THQN rather than the larger, more important businesses who do business with them, because the effect on you is minimal. Despite the fact that the business relationship between THQN and LRG amounts to a grand total of one game and one tweet right now, compared to the hundreds of already released and upcoming titles that represent the business relationship between THQN and Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Valve, and Epic.
Essentially, you are saying "my values are x so long as doing x only slightly inconveniences me". Which is, frankly, bullshit, especially when those business relationships are way more important to THQN's continued success than their one game deal with a tiny company that small print runs.
Couldn't have said it better. This perfectly summarizes so much of what is going on in THQ threads (as long as THQ is in the thread title, at least).
Tough situation, but at least LRG already release a statement. Hopefully this is the last time they deal with THQN
And unlike LRG, Sony, MS, Nintendo can afford /have bigger chance of surviving if they cancel contract with THQN.
I agree
And unlike LRG, Sony, MS, Nintendo can afford /have bigger chance of surviving if they cancel contract with THQN.
I am saying that I get to choose what video games I buy to entertain myself. It's pretty simple. I have limited time and resources, so I am going to spend them in a way that I see fit. I'm the same vein, THQN was free to make their choices and LRG is free to do what they feel they need to as well. One small consequence of the the choice they made is that they aren't going to get any business from me, which I seriously doubt they will notice.
Yes, and I know where you are going with this.
Sure, of course you do. And no one is entitled to your money, you can buy or not buy games from any source for any reason. However, if you are going to vocalize that reason as "because x company does business with THQN" then you are going to look like a massive hypocrite unless you are boycotting all the companies that do the same type of business with them (i.e. selling their games). Especially when doing so requires (self-admittedly) hardly any inconvenience for you.
Okay. So who are you arguing with here? It seems like we're in the backlash to the backlash stage, but the critics are arguing against strawmen.
Here's the first post that started it all:
It's a post that fails to highlight the main concern prevalent in this thread. Nobody here (save for one banned member) condemned anyone who associates with THQN. They condemned companies that work with THQN to publish their games.
It's not the whole system but a part of it. By assuming the former, you're poking holes at a weaker argument.
Damn people were calling anyone who associates with THQN evil! Wait, that was just one person:
And they were an alt account.
It just seems like you're rebuking the easiest to debunk argument in this thread.
EDIT: Ok, it's fair to point out this post:
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No? I was responding directly to one post. LRG is selling a physical print of one of THQN's PS2 classics, basically acting as a retailer for a physical version of THQN's game. If you are opposed to a company selling games published by THQN, then you are opposed to every single major physical retailer and every single platform holder and digital storefront, because they all sell THQN's games. So if you take the position "I refuse to do business with a company that sells THQN games" then that position means that you would refuse to buy games from virtually every retailer and storefront.
The only difference between LRG and Epic, Sony, Valve, or Nintendo, Amazon, or Gamestop in this scenario is that LRG is, as of right now, selling a single print run of a single THQN game, and the other mentioned retailers/platform holders have sold millions of copies between all of THQN's published titles. Now if you take the position "selling THQN games is unacceptable" than the amount of games sold is largely irrelevant, I'm just stating this in the interest of making an accurate comparison.
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Do whatever you want. We got a statement from LRG. Good luck getting any statement from a single AAA dev.
My bigger bone to pick was always the second part you don't seem to be down with anyway.
LRG has 12 employees https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_Run_Games
Their crime here is re-releasing Red Faction, a cult classic. Something still owned by THQ. In a deal probably discussed months ago given the small size of this operation.
Yet a sizeable minority on Resetera said some of the shit they have and basically chased 1 of those 12 people off the forums even though they gave a reasonable stance and very quickly.
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The problem is that anyone who follows any sort of moral compass is going to take hypocritical actions at some point. It's unavoidable and I don't agree with the stance that one should not try to do what they feel is correct in one situation simply because they can't do what they feel is correct in all situations. My original post was pointing out that someone personally choosing not to buy someones games is a proportional response in this situation and you really haven't said much to counter that. Instead you have just sort of jumped the argument onto a completely different track.
Except in this case it's literally the same situation, you just refuse to be consistent in your stance because if you were it would inconvenience you more. There is no difference between LRG selling a THQN game and Sony or Nintendo or Valve selling a THQN game, except in terms of volume of sales and profit.
Like I said, no one is entitled to your money. You can buy or not buy anything for any reason. But if you go around saying "I'm not buying because x" then continue to buy from other companies who also do x then you've immediately completely undermined your stance.
Where have I refused to be consistent with my stance? I am pretty sure I never said anything about what games I will buy or not buy. Again, it seems obvious that you don't want to actually address my point about proportionality.
This is the 3rd time you have had to structure your argument with a hypothetical thing I never said placed in quotes. Not a strong signal to me that you are interested in arguing in good faith.
You can't say you don't like their AMA and continue to do business with them.
Look, I've bought games from you guys before, and you've been awesome when my local courier smashed up a game. Absolutely amazing and I felt really looked after as a customer. I know you're a great company full of good people, and I want to support you guys by buying more stuff from you.
But this... just no. THQN is a company that legitimised child abuse. Short of not doing business with them, there's literally nothing you could do to make this better.
What? You specifically said you are not going to buy LRG games because they are selling a THQN game. You then said it's not a big deal to you because it's just a few games. Which is why I'm asking whether or not your stance is consistent, as in are you going to no longer buy games from companies that also sell THQN games? Based on what you've already said, the implication is that you aren't willing to boycott other companies who sell THQN games, but yeah I am making that assumption, feel free to correct it if it's wrong.
You keep saying that it's proportional, but it's really not proportional to the problem of companies continuing to do business with THQN.
In this thread we have a bunch of people willing to hold LRG accountable for things that a business partner did, meanwhile giving all of the other companies that do business with THQ a pass. Why? Because it's easier to hold a small publisher accountable, and because it's actually possible to get a response from LRG.
Also have to consider that boycotting Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, and Steam would actually cause great inconvenience, so it's better to draw the line in the sand in a place that doesn't cause too much personal pain.
Do we have anyone in the thread giving up current and future gen gaming because of this? It's great to try to push for change but it's inappropriate to dis-proportionally punish a small company for something when everyone else gets a pass.
Just don't buy THQN games and be done with it.
Also have to consider that boycotting Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, and Steam would actually cause great inconvenience, so it's better to draw the line in the sand in a place that doesn't cause too much personal pain.
Do we have anyone in the thread giving up current and future gen gaming because of this? It's great to try to push for change but it's inappropriate to dis-proportionally punish a small company for something when everyone else gets a pass.
Just don't buy THQN games and be done with it.
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Just keep on assuming what games I plan on buying. It's going great for you.
Let's frame it this way: LRG made a tweet with (what I think we can safely assume was) the intent of making a positive impact on their audience's likelihood of purchasing their games. It is a completely proportional response to have the opposite reaction.
I'm directly asking you if you are going to buy games from other companies that sell THQN games.
Exactly this.
I think people are precisely claiming they'll boycott LRG over this because it feels easier to hold a smaller company accountable.
Steam distributing THQN games will have orders of magnitude greater support for the harm that THQN endorses and supports, but I haven't seen anyone get angry at Valve for similar things.
Don't get me wrong, go for it if you'll block LRG over this. It'll always be something I keep in mind as well if I ever buy again from them.
But personally speaking, I know I've moneyhatted worse or comparable shit by proxy, so...
Steam distributing THQN games will have orders of magnitude greater support for the harm that THQN endorses and supports, but I haven't seen anyone get angry at Valve for similar things.
Don't get me wrong, go for it if you'll block LRG over this. It'll always be something I keep in mind as well if I ever buy again from them.
But personally speaking, I know I've moneyhatted worse or comparable shit by proxy, so...
The reality is that a smaller company that associates with unpopular people is going to be more effected by that decision than a large company that makes a similar decision.
Social pressure rarely gets applied evenly. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. When people where putting pressure on platform holders to de-platform Alex Jones, the pressure was not applied evenly, but it still started a snowball effect that eventually rolled up more companies.
LRG made a choice here and they don't get shielded from the consequences just because the outcome isn't 100% just.
Steam does business with them, GOG does, EGS does, MS does, Nintendo does, Sony does. Realistically, if video gaming is your hobby, it won't be possible to avoid a company that does business with them. Which isn't to say, "oh well shucks, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism so just do whatever!". But avoiding buying THQs products specifically is probably the only viable course of action, unless you're just going to stop buying games altogether.
Since the 8chan incident, no I have not. Getting by on a large backlog and some indie stuff that I am playing as research for my own work. But even still, my point is that someone can still have a blended approach to holding companies accountable and it is a defensible position.
OK, then your position is a lot more defensible. I disagree, there is no 'blended approach' if your issue is companies selling games from THQN. At that point, the volume of sales and importance of the business relationship (and thus effect on the offending corporation, in this case THQN) becomes relevant. It makes the decision to boycott the company that has the least amount of influence on THQN's success while continuing to support the companies that have to most influence over their success pretty indefensible if the goal is to hold THQN accountable or to limit any way which your money indirectly supports THQN.
So are you going to stop buying Sony and MS games because they do business with THQ? They allow THQ onto their platform too, as does Steam and GOG.
This business deal for Red Faction was probably initiated prior to the AMA. Sony and MS continue to deal with THQ post AMA.
Pressure applied unevenly = Pressure applied in the most convenient locations.
You can justify your position all you want but what I see is a position that lets you do -something- without doing something that inconveniences you.
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