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Cousin From Boston

Prophet of Regret
Avenger
Nov 21, 2017
3,568
Absolutely disgusting. I'm done with Ubisoft games and won't support them without massive overhaul to their corporate culture.

There's no way they should have an event tomorrow. I was planning on watching giantbomb talk over it, but now I kinda hope GB cancels their steam all together.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
And that's what a lot of this comes down to, we deem you too talented to care. Awful.

Going to echo those saying Guillemot should step down immediately, I have zero hope for the sweeping changes necessary coming while he's in charge.
I doubt Guillemot will step down unless A) he has done this kind of stuff himself or B) he hasn't raped/harassed anyone but has, like, been in the same room when some of the worst has happened or something.

People barely care about the rapists & harassers, not sure they'll give a shit about enablers.
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,329
I am glad they brought in an external investigation group. It will be interesting to see what happens. If the allegations prove true, and Hascoet isn't removed at the end of the investigation, I guess I'm done with Ubisoft games.
Are they paying for this external investigation group? If so, I'm always suspicious about these. This investigation group will need to answer to their paymasters.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Surely Ubisoft have broken the law by knowing about this crimes and then not stopping it and allowing it to continue? They created an unsafe working environment and did not protect their employees, there must be some way of holding them criminally liable?
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,190
No one is expecting Guillemot to divest from his own company, but he should step down from any executive role.

If we can't at least ban OTs for Ubisoft games and presentations then what the fuck was the point in splitting off from GAF in the first place
Ding ding ding.

Plus, even though this is wildly different, experience has shown the THQ approach did jack.
 

CrispyGamer

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
2,774
Serious question: at what point should Era ban discussion of games made by corporations like this? It would probably be a shitstorm of epic proportions if, say, Assassin's Creed discussion is banned here, but it feels weird to give them a pass just because they're big.

After the THQ 8chan situation i seriously doubt ERA would ban topics of game companies
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,372
I suggest that if there's not a ban, there's a reminder in every one of their threads that this is the kind of company they are.
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
If we can't at least ban OTs for Ubisoft games and presentations then what the fuck was the point in splitting off from GAF in the first place
The point was to not be a forum owned by a rapist creep. Also this is not an alt-right enabling forum, which is kinda the whole point.

I understand your anger and looking at the situation in the games industry you'd have to heavily restrict discussions around Sony, THQ, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Activision, CDPR and many more just for their shitty internal practices. Only then I'd ask what's the point of having a forum. For what it's worth discussions about problematic games like KCD are allowed here and from what I can see the sexism/nazi issues are being brought up in every new thread and bad faith actors are being banned (even if clearly not all of them). Us being able to bring up these issues in every thread is more important than taking away the platform to talk about these games. That's also what sets Era apart from pretty much every other gaming discussion platform. Point your frustration at the company responsible, not this place... because Ubisoft seriously deserves to eat shit at this point.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,094
Honestly I don't see what a site wide ban would accomplish tbh.

Heavy moderation is preferable imo.
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,661
Germany
The point was to not be a forum owned by a rapist creep. Also this is not an alt-right enabling forum, which is kinda the whole point.

I understand your anger and looking at the situation in the games industry you'd have to heavily restrict discussions around Sony, THQ, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Activision, CDPR and many more just for their shitty internal practices. Only then I'd ask what's the point of having a forum. For what it's worth discussions about problematic games like KCD are allowed here and from what I can see the sexism/nazi issues are being brought up in every new thread and bad faith actors are being banned (even if clearly not all of them). Us being able to bring up these issues in every thread is more important than taking away the platform to talk about these games. That's also what sets Era apart from pretty much every other gaming discussion platform. Point your frustration at the company responsible not this place, because Ubisoft seriously deserves to eat shit at this point.

I agree with this. I think if we ban this we need to ban a lot of companies because this happens at a lot of them. We have to talk about this stuff happening but anything beyond that is kinda out of our control.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,876
Montreal
Heads need to roll for this. Complete leadership change.

The only way to make heads roll is a mass boycott of Ubisoft games and hurting their bottom line hard. The Guillemot family is well insulated at the top of Ubi and I can't see him stepping down unless tons of stories start coming out about him directly, and even then I'm not sure.

The shitty thing about hitting Ubisoft where it financially hurts is that:
A) it's hard to do and hard to keep up as a collective
B) The lower level Ubi employees, many of which who are completely disgusted by this or speaking out right now, are the ones that would feel the crunch first.

We could name the Ubi presentation thread here "Company with 100+ harassment claims announces some stuff" and I still don't think that would have a dent in things".

What I think we need to do, at the very least, is have a stickied thread that tracks these claims, the bullshit that CDPR has been doing, the Insomniac story, the Microsoft Mixer story, even the Naughty Dog crunch in an effort to make sure that people are informed about the companies they are buying from. I think the most we can do is create informed consumers and demand change, even if we don't directly have the power to cause that change.

Anyways, thats my 2 cents.

Edit: Also, any journalists that interview any of these companies need to keep the pressure up and make sure the companies talk about and walk them through how they are changing. Many journalists will be afraid to lose their access to PR/early review copies but the ones that aren't really have to hold these companies to task.
 

Moz La Punk

Journalist at Gamer.nl & Power Unlimited
Verified
May 15, 2018
1,353
The Netherlands
Thank you for this thread. It made me aware of it and I've posted news items on Gamer.nl, InsideGamer.nl and PU.nl, three of the largest gamesites in the Netherlands.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,070
UK
I don't agree with deplaforming in this case because we are video game discussion forum. We discuss video games, the companies, and the culture around it, including the negative aspects. We just can't pretend one of the biggest video game companies in the world, with very relevant news, does not exist.
I don't think the presentation threads are going to allow discussion of Ubisoft's negative aspects, it's going to a product hype cycle. We can still have threads like this but uncritical threads designed to boost sales and pre-orders are not going to benefit as much.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,412
I am absolutely for keeping discussion of companies on the forum, but the problem with OTs in specific is that they are intrinsically promotional and are not centered on criticism.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,070
UK
Jack Couvela (Ubisoft art director for Grow Home, Grow Up, Division 2) is aware of it now. It would be good if more Ubisoft employees chimed in.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
The point was to not be a forum owned by a rapist creep. Also this is not an alt-right enabling forum, which is kinda the whole point.

I understand your anger and looking at the situation in the games industry you'd have to heavily restrict discussions around Sony, THQ, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Activision, CDPR and many more just for their shitty internal practices. Only then I'd ask what's the point of having a forum. For what it's worth discussions about problematic games like KCD are allowed here and from what I can see the sexism/nazi issues are being brought up in every new thread and bad faith actors are being banned (even if clearly not all of them). Us being able to bring up these issues in every thread is more important than taking away the platform to talk about these games. That's also what sets Era apart from pretty much every other gaming discussion platform. Point your frustration at the company responsible, not this place... because Ubisoft seriously deserves to eat shit at this point.

There's a world of difference between banning discussion altogether and not allowing threads that just further serve to market their games. So I'm not sure what the fuck you're talking about here.
 

Arcus Felis

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,123
I'll read the whole article ASAP, but what I read so far is absolutely disgusting...

Guess I'll add Ubisoft to the "never buy anything from them ever again" pile, along with THQ Nordic (and every single Dragon Quest game or product).
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,815
Yves Guillemot should resign also. This is a culture thing at the company. It's beyond the pale that it was allowed to go on from the top down for so long that it became this widespread. There is no chance that Yves didn't know something of this magnitude was going on in the executive branch. Him acting like he is planning to clean things up now that it's getting press, is laughable.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Absolutely sickening. Imagine working for such a big and renowned place and how you feel after realizing it had an actively corrupt and abusive side to it.

Yves Guillemot should resign also. This is a culture thing at the company. It's beyond the pale that it was allowed to go on from the top down for so long that it became this widespread. There is no chance that Yves didn't know something of this magnitude was going on in the executive branch. Him acting like he is planning to clean things up now that it's getting press, is laughable.
I don't want to call it, but I have had the sneaking suspicion that Yves is just throwing the HR guy under the bus to clear himself of suspicion. I also think this is indicative of a higher up culture that they're trying hide. I hope it is thoroughly investigated.
 

Argentil

Member
Oct 27, 2017
731
How about putting a concise, tidy disclaimer in the OP of Ubisoft threads, or a mod message in each thread, at least until Ubisoft take some action.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,796
The castle needs to crumble for any of this to change. If it tracks all the way back to Yves knowing all of this and just hand waving it in the name of "productivity", this company is completely fucked.
 

$10 Bagel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,481
Well, if anyone wanted BG&E2 news, it's probably gonna be at the conference.

like when Vivendi was trying to take over
 

sora87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,856
Wow, what a disgusting mess ubisoft is. And people are just ignoring it and getting hyped for their event tomorrow, urgh.
 

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,975
Also, tomorrow there is not only their conference but also previews embargo dropping for AC:V & WD2.

I saw a streamer saying he won't publish his videos (nor streaming the conference) and I wish more outlets would do the same.
 

RisingStar

Banned
Oct 8, 2019
4,849
France right? Not surprised given what I've seen and heard about people's experiences from French companies in Paris. Very hush hush work culture from what I understand.

Glad to see it exposed however. But this shouldn't stop here, there are bigger French companies where HR are likely hiding mountains of secrets like these.
 
Feb 15, 2019
2,534
Odds that they just fire a few people as scapegoats and carry on as usual?

Ubisoft is a joke. And unless all these game journalist sites are waiting for more news for some reason, so are they. Sorry Giancarlo, maybe some other game.


I suggest that if there's not a ban, there's a reminder in every one of their threads that this is the kind of company they are.

That pretty much does nothing. Not even people on here care about that warning. All it will do is turn every Ubisoft thread into a "people that complain about what kind of a company Ubisoft is" vs "people that want to talk about the game/topic at hand". And then both sides just lose out as it devolves into a thread where the Ubisoft complainers are annoyed that people are excusing it and the Ubisoft defenders are annoyed because they wanna talk about the topic thread.
 

Deleted member 73558

Account closed at user request
Banned
Jul 2, 2020
21
Have Jade Raymond and Patrice DĂ©silets commented yet?
Their voice carry a lot of weight. It would be good to hear from them.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,798
So why isn't this being picked up by media outside of France? No guts? Not as important to report on? I guess FC6 leaks gives them more clicks.
I assume you talk about games media here, and then I just have to ask: why should they report on real news? Games media is just about entertainment, about the new hot things, what game got what reviews, sold how much, and so and so on. Their readers don't care about how game devs are treated, or sexual harassment scandals.
It's like asking why Sports Illustrated isn't talking about medical studies about the effects of playing football.

I assume proper news papers will pick this up at some point, perhaps after doing their own research on it.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,815
I don't want to call it, but I have had the sneaking suspicion that Yves is just throwing the HR guy under the bus to clear himself of suspicion. I also think this is indicative of a higher up culture that they're trying hide. I hope it is thoroughly investigated.

There is no way that he wasn't contacted at some point by someone about all the complaints. Some of these were executives, his friends. It's very naive to think that he was unaware of all of this.

This article is actually nuts. Other sites have posted portions of it that some might not have seen because of the paywall but it states that when people made complaints they were told that "these are creatives, that's how they work" or "if you can't work with him, maybe it's time for you to leave." This goes way beyond covering up, this is justification like it's part of the creative process.

It also states that: things have gotten even worse there since these revelations and that the perpetrators "remain convinced that this affects their freedom. They call it "a witch hunt". In addition to the rest, as a woman, we have become a threat. It's far from pleasant to live."

Tommy Francois has just been placed on administrative leave so he will probably just get sensitivity training and come back. Nothing at all has happened to Serge Hascoet, who is said to be the most toxic of all of them and is closest with Francois. Yves really doesn't look to be doing jack shit except pretending.

One of the more irritating things is the Lawyer of Tommy Francois telling accusers to go to the authorities so that Tommy has the ability to "assure the authenticity... and prove their falsehood" This is the same shit you read form incels on reddit when metoo hit the the gaming/streaming scene. "Why didn't they go to police!!?" Sexual assault and rape is notoriously difficult to prove in a court of law so there are very few outlets for victims to speak. The old "charge us if we did something wrong" is so angering and tone deaf.
 

SFLUFAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,375
Alexandria, VA
It's like asking why Sports Illustrated isn't talking about medical studies about the effects of playing football.

You mean like this?
www.si.com

Diagnosing CTE in Living Patients: 5 Years Away?

Soon, researchers could have a way to diagnose CTE in living patients. What it would mean if football players, mid-career, could test themselves for the disease

or this?
www.si.com

New Study Finds CTE in 99% of former NFL Players' Brains

Dr. Ann McKee says, "It is no longer debatable whether or not there is a problem in football."
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,798
You mean like this?
www.si.com

Diagnosing CTE in Living Patients: 5 Years Away?

Soon, researchers could have a way to diagnose CTE in living patients. What it would mean if football players, mid-career, could test themselves for the disease

or this?
www.si.com

New Study Finds CTE in 99% of former NFL Players' Brains

Dr. Ann McKee says, "It is no longer debatable whether or not there is a problem in football."
Kudos to SI then, though the article doesn't really provide more than a surface level discussion on this topic. ( btw, as a non-American I'm baffled how it requires hard scientifc studies that a sport that asks young men to bash their heads against each other, is maybe a little bit unhealthy)
Questions about what this could mean for the sport are just handwaived as "philosophical", rather than be the meat of the article, as they should be. That's similar to the rare article in game media on "difficult" topics, just a few remarks, hardly ever providing a critical look, or actually asking whether more than one party shares the blame.