LG make the best gaming TVs in the business, why the hell aren't they making OLED monitors?

Veliladon · Feb 18, 2020

I would kill for a 27", 1000 nit, 120Hz, 1440p OLED display with variable refresh rate.

All of the 1000 nit monitors are either ultrawide 1440p that cost a billion dollars or they're 4K which means you need a hell of a beast machine to handle the load.

Why don't we have someone that's trying to go for making the sweet spot better instead of "better have fuck you levels of money for dual 2080Ti" monitors?

FelixFFM · Feb 18, 2020

Because burn in.

Ferrs · Feb 18, 2020

Same reason why there's no smaller OLED TVs. 49' is the smallest OLED TV.

Also, you are not getting 1000 nits on an OLED.

Thiago · Feb 18, 2020

Let's get #FreeOLEDmonitors trending.

Isayas · Feb 18, 2020

Ferrs said:
Same reason why there's no smaller OLED TVs. 49' is the smallest OLED TV.

Also, you are not getting 1000 nits on an OLED.

I thought OLED were one of the panels that can reach 1000 nits?

Nezacant · Feb 18, 2020

FelixFFM said:
Because burn in.

One and done.

DrFunk · Feb 18, 2020

1000 nit OLED? In what world?

Tiny Chihuahueño · Feb 18, 2020

Because you would have your desktop background and icons burned in forever not one month into the life of said monitor. And then you would cry and complain why did they release such a product. It's really that simple.

HgS · Feb 18, 2020

Isayas said:
I thought OLED were one of the panels that can reach 1000 nits?

OLED panels are generally pretty dim. They get away with it because of the really high contrast. My B6 is in a fairly bright room and I actually wish I'd gone with LED given the viewing conditions.

Ferrs · Feb 18, 2020

Isayas said:
I thought OLED were one of the panels that can reach 1000 nits?

On the contrary, it's one of the weak point vs LEDs, they reach lower nits. High tier OLEDs (like the LG C model) are now around 700-800nits right now if I'm not mistaken.

Isayas · Feb 18, 2020

Ferrs said:
On the contrary, it's one of the weak point vs LEDs, they reach lower nits. OLEDs are now around 700-800nits right now if I'm not mistaken.

Man I got feed the incorrect information. Thanks for correcting me. What about Microled?

HgS said:
OLED panels are generally pretty dim. They get away with it because of the really high contrast. My B6 is in a fairly bright room and I actually wish I'd gone with LED given the viewing conditions.

Oh that is what I was confusing? Huh.

Mifec · Feb 18, 2020

They're also making the best IPS monitors.

Ferrs · Feb 18, 2020

Isayas said:
Man I got feed the incorrect information. Thanks for correcting me. What about Microled?

You're gonna have to wait for MicroLED TVs to be released first, something that won't happen in years.

Kaako · Feb 18, 2020

OLED monitors were originally suppose to retail in holiday 2017 but that didn't happen because of reasons.

RedHeat · Feb 18, 2020

Because

Burn-in
OLED displays have a significantly lower lifespan than most display types. People leave monitors on a lot longer than TV's.

Pargon · Feb 18, 2020

Isayas said:
I thought OLED were one of the panels that can reach 1000 nits?

Maybe if only one of the pixels is switched on.
The thing with OLED is that it's heavily limited by power/heat. Small areas of the screen can go bright, but as soon as you try to display a full screen that is bright, it drops to about 150 nits.
Panasonic's OLED TVs can go a bit brighter, and stay bright for longer, because they use a custom panel and have a larger heatsink.

Ninjician- · Feb 18, 2020

700-800 nits on a 10% window.

Full screen brightness is where LED shines.

700 nits vs 2,000 nits is not a big difference, it's the ABL on OLED limiting fullscreen brightness that creates a dimmer picture.

For example, 100 nits fullscreen is 50% of 10,000 nits fullscreen.

OLED shines with detail, contrast, and specular highlights, but can't deliver fullscreen punch due to power constraints.

LED LCD can't show true black pixel to pixel, has slower pixel response, and can have worse viewing angles and dirty screen effect.

The true reason OLEDs aren't made for monitors is panel yield from the factory. Has nothing to do with burn in. Your PHONES are OLED.

HgS · Feb 18, 2020

Isayas said:
Man I got feed the incorrect information. Thanks for correcting me. What about Microled?

Oh that is what I was confusing? Huh.

Could be. OLED panels have "infinite contrast" because the blacks are actually black whereas an LED set always has some amount of light so the "black" is always at best a really really dark grey. This they always have a less desirable contrast ratio relative to OLED sets. I have an LED set upstairs and an OLED downstairs. The room condition really determines which I prefer and considering the OLED was 2x the price it's a bit disappointing to me that there is anytime I'd prefer the LED picture.

Not to say I dislike the OLED set. It's a great TV, but I wouldn't rebuy it for the room it's in now.

evilalien · Feb 18, 2020

Ferrs said:
You're gonna have to wait for MicroLED TVs to be released first, something that won't happen in years.

MicroLED in monitor size is going to be many years after it finally arrives for large form TVs too.

PowerThroughLov · Feb 18, 2020

Its not as easy as just "making a smaller TV". They have to manufacture smaller panels, which means much more RND (if they can even do it). A 27" 4k monitor has much smaller pixels than a 55" 4k.

Then they also have scale. They sell many more TV's than they would monitors. Even if every gamer bought one, its not likely a huge market.

MorshuTheTrader · Feb 18, 2020

OLED monitors do exist, they are just so expensive that you could buy a couple full size OLED TV's for the price. Your best bet is to get a 48 inch OLED tv that's coming out this year and use it as a monitor. Still too big for most though.

TSM · Feb 18, 2020

Next time you use a PC for any length of time take note of all the stationary graphics. PCs are pretty much guaranteed to burn in an OLED.

Still a Gray Area · Feb 18, 2020

Ninjician- said:
700-800 nits on a 10% window.

Full screen brightness is where LED shines.

700 nits vs 2,000 nits is not a big difference, it's the ABL on OLED limiting fullscreen brightness that creates a dimmer picture.

For example, 100 nits fullscreen is 50% of 10,000 nits fullscreen.

OLED shines with detail, contrast, and specular highlights, but can't deliver fullscreen punch due to power constraints.

LED LCD can't show true black pixel to pixel, has slower pixel response, and can have worse viewing angles and dirty screen effect.

The true reason OLEDs aren't made for monitors is panel yield from the factory. Has nothing to do with burn in. Your PHONES are OLED.

This right here.

TitanicFall · Feb 18, 2020

Ninjician- said:
700-800 nits on a 10% window.

Full screen brightness is where LED shines.

700 nits vs 2,000 nits is not a big difference

I think that depends on the scene and how long that TV can sustain 700 nits. A 2000 nit television has much more room to maintain the specular highlights, all other things being equal.

NekoFever · Feb 18, 2020

Laptops are starting to get OLED monitors in their high-end models, so they are out there. But even as a fan of OLED TVs, I would never use one as a computer monitor.

Ninjician- · Feb 18, 2020

TitanicFall said:
I think that depends on the scene and how long that TV can sustain 700 nits. A 2000 nit television has much more room to maintain the specular highlights, all other things being equal.

Nits are logarithmic. 2,000 is not double 1,000. There is very little content that even pushes past 1,000 nits that isn't just highlight detail.

An OLED panel will generally regulate up to 150 nits fullscreen. LED doesn't have this limit and people can push 500 nits in a bright room with sun glare with no burn in.

aisback · Feb 18, 2020

I do want that 48 Inch OLED.

I don't game much on my pc and use my monitor 2 hours normally a day so I know I would be fine.

Pargon · Feb 18, 2020

Ninjician- said:
For example, 100 nits fullscreen is 50% of 10,000 nits fullscreen.

I thought it was more like 25%, but you're right that it's not as big a difference as those numbers may suggest.

Ninjician- said:
LED LCD can't show true black pixel to pixel, has slower pixel response, and can have worse viewing angles and dirty screen effect.

The majority of motion blur is caused by the image hold time on the display rather than response times, so that's not as big a deal as many make it out to be.
Depending on the use-case, viewing angle on a good IPS display can be better than OLED. OLED suffers from color shifts fairly quickly - though it doesn't lose much contrast, and brightness loss is usually less.

Ninjician- said:
The true reason OLEDs aren't made for monitors is panel yield from the factory. Has nothing to do with burn in. Your PHONES are OLED.

Phones do not run constantly, rarely display static information outside of a few pixels along the top of the screen, and are usually replaced within a couple of years.

TitanicFall · Feb 18, 2020

Ninjician- said:
Nits are logarithmic. 2,000 is not double 1,000. There is very little content that even pushes past 1,000 nits that isn't just highlight detail.

An OLED panel will generally regulate up to 150 nits fullscreen. LED doesn't have this limit and people can push 500 nits in a bright room with sun glare with no burn in.

My point was that if a display can't sustain its peak brightness for long then it can be more noticeable in some scenes than a display with a higher nit ceiling. I think you'd notice the difference between a 700 nit OLED and a 2000 nit OLED since the 700 nit TV is tone mapping in situations that the 2000 nit TV doesn't have to. At the minimum the latter would be a more accurate representation of what the creator intended if they go above 700 nits.

RedOnePunch · Feb 18, 2020

OLED won't work but I do wish we could move on from LCD technology in the near future. The industry has done a good job with the branding calling them "LED" but they're still LCD panels with the same shortcomings.

Ninjician- · Feb 18, 2020

TitanicFall said:
My point was that if a display can't sustain its peak brightness for long then it can be more noticeable in some scenes than a display with a higher nit ceiling. I think you'd notice the difference between a 700 nit OLED and a 2000 nit OLED since the 700 nit TV is tone mapping in situations that the 2000 nit TV doesn't have to. At the minimum the latter would be a more accurate representation of what the creator intended if they go above 700 nits.

You're correct on all fronts. This link has some great info on the topic of human vision and mastering content: https://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html

Isayas · Feb 18, 2020

So, what is the difference between QLED vs OLED? And what is better for gaming and watching movies?

Deleted member 54073 · Feb 18, 2020

ThiagoJG said:
Let's get #FreeOLEDmonitors trending.

Lost it when I read this.

Deleted member 8752 · Feb 18, 2020

Isayas said:
So, what is the difference between QLED vs OLED? And what is better for gaming and watching movies?

QLED is just LED + marketing.

LED is better in a bright room that gets a ton of sunlight, OLED is better in a room with ideal conditions (i.e. a dark room).

LED doesn't have burn in, OLED has some but it varies in severity a lot depending on luck and usage.

If you want the optimum quality under ideal conditions, go with OLED, but if you want the most practical display with still a great image, go with LED. Really, low input lag should be your first priority, then decide what you want from there.

Isayas · Feb 18, 2020

Peltz said:
QLED is just LED + marketing.

LED is better in a bright room that gets a ton of sunlight, OLED is better in a room with ideal conditions (i.e. a dark room).

LED doesn't have burn in, OLED has some but it varies in severity a lot depending on luck and usage.

If you want the optimum quality under ideal conditions, go with OLED, but if you want the most practical display with still a great image, go with LED. Really, low input lag should be your first priority, then decide what you want from there.

Low input lag is definitely the priority

EvilBoris · Feb 18, 2020

There are a number of OLED laptops now with 400-500nit RGB screens.

But the reasons they are not common.

Price. I don't think enough people are prepared to pay such a premium for a PC display.

Burn-in. It is a thing

Low full field brightness even compared to a basic Pc monitor, which makes them impractical for typical Office use.

If they were to try and use the same types of panels as the TVs: WRGB structure basically breaks sub pixel font rendering as used in most OS's.

skeezx · Feb 18, 2020

edit nevermind

Deleted member 22713 · Feb 18, 2020

Ferrs said:
Same reason why there's no smaller OLED TVs. 49' is the smallest OLED TV.

Tbf you could get a roughly 32" 1440p monitor or a 24" 1080p at the same pixel pitch.

Anyway there are OLED monitors; they're just mainly for professional use and cost as much as manufacturers can possibly justify.

If you're really itching for it OP, there's this dinky 5.5 inch 1080p AMOLED monitor.

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ss_lemonade · Feb 18, 2020

Isayas said:
I thought OLED were one of the panels that can reach 1000 nits?

I think my Samsung KS9000 can reach 1000 nits in certain scenarios, and that's a 2016 LED

DammitLloyd · Feb 18, 2020

evilalien said:
MicroLED in monitor size is going to be many years after it finally arrives for large form TVs too.

Samsung already makes monitor sized MLED tv's tho. So it may come at the same time.

Actually it may come sooner then the actual tv's. Samsung's "The Wall" are 32" individual panels

Isayas · Feb 18, 2020

georaldc said:
I think my Samsung KS9000 can reach 1000 nits in certain scenarios, and that's a 2016 LED

How much was that?

2Blackcats · Feb 18, 2020

aisback said:
I do want that 48 Inch OLED.

I don't game much on my pc and use my monitor 2 hours normally a day so I know I would be fine.

Yeah, I've started saving for one. Any idea how much it might cost?

tokkun · Feb 18, 2020

evilalien said:
MicroLED in monitor size is going to be many years after it finally arrives for large form TVs too.

It may be more economical to make small MicroLED displays because MicroLED panels are modular. The bigger displays are made from several smaller panels connected together. So you can make large and small displays using the same production lines.

This is different from OLED, where the entire panel must be made from one piece. That is one of the main reasons it has taken so long to get a < 55" OLED TV. The factories are optimized for creating 55" and 65" panels, and they can't create smaller panels without wasting materials.

JiyuuTenshi · Feb 18, 2020

DammitLloyd said:
Samsung already makes monitor sized MLED tv's tho. So it may come at the same time.

Actually it may come sooner then the actual tv's. Samsung's "The Wall" are 32" individual panels

Each cabinet only has a resolution of 960x540 though, so that's not really usable on its own.

Samsung said they could go as small as 40" for a full microLED panel, but the manufacturing cost would be disproportionately high.

ss_lemonade · Feb 18, 2020

Isayas said:
How much was that?

$1400-1500 IIRC for a 65 in? This was back in 2016 though and was one of the recommended TVs back then (well actually, the cheaper KS8000 was. They were very similar in performance though)

Isayas · Feb 18, 2020

georaldc said:
$1400-1500 IIRC for a 65 in? This was back in 2016 though and was one of the recommended TVs back then (well actually, the cheaper KS8000 was. They were very similar in performance though)

Damn. I am trying to get LG CX 55in this year for the PS5.

Bjones · Feb 18, 2020

Led will reach oled levels before oled are good enough for monitors.

evilalien · Feb 18, 2020

DammitLloyd said:
Samsung already makes monitor sized MLED tv's tho. So it may come at the same time.

Actually it may come sooner then the actual tv's. Samsung's "The Wall" are 32" individual panels

The Wall uses 32" 960x540 panels. It's going to be a long time before they can even just quadruple that resolution for 1080p at an acceptable price and that's still not acceptable for a monitor.

tokkun said:
It may be more economical to make small MicroLED displays because MicroLED panels are modular. The bigger displays are made from several smaller panels connected together. So you can make large and small displays using the same production lines.

This is different from OLED, where the entire panel must be made from one piece. That is one of the main reasons it has taken so long to get a < 55" OLED TV. The factories are optimized for creating 55" and 65" panels, and they can't create smaller panels without wasting materials.

That's true for large form commercial displays where the exact resolution is irrelevant which is why The Wall is modular, but this will not be true for consumer level displays with fixed resolutions.

GangWarily · Feb 18, 2020

I remember Linus did a review for an OLED monitor. I remember it was tiny, underpowered with dismal peak brightness and a ridiculously high price 😵

Shpeshal Nick · Feb 18, 2020

Ferrs said:
Same reason why there's no smaller OLED TVs. 49' is the smallest OLED TV.

Also, you are not getting 1000 nits on an OLED.

Well we're getting a 48" soon. That's probably the closest we get for now.

LG make the best gaming TVs in the business, why the hell aren't they making OLED monitors?

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